If he decides to come back and play there is no way they can police him being booed, hell I'd boo him out of principle....
Changing the game for the supporters because 1 player chucks a tantrum...come on.
Cousins gets banned for the AFL for bringing the game into disrepute (not convicted of drugs) how is what Goodes is being any different? He is tarnishing the game, alienating the supporters...
Now that its such a big deal swans supports have said they will sneak in eggs and egg anyone who boo's him... yep there is only one thing that's going to happen from all of this.. and its 1 mans fault.
Whether we like it or not, there may be some racial (not racist) reasons behind the booing. But I think for the most part it is just a lowest common denominator type scenario. Much like the inane "Aussie, Aussie, Aussie - oi, oi, oi" chant. Most are embarrassed by it, but hundreds join in. Parhaps people shouldn't join in.
However, perhaps we should give some thought to this comment I read on another forum this morning.
Hanlons Razor (look it up on Wiki) : never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity (or perhaps naivety is a better word in this case)
What does sh*t me however is the comment by some people saying that 'Adam Goodes feels that it is racist and therefor we should stop'. That is totally sh*t. The reason for stopping should be because of the intent...not just because you say you believe it is the reason. If I tell you it is not the reason, then believe me. If you tell me that I am racist, and I am not, you should be tarred with a similar brush. Unfortunately being a false accuser of racism does not bare any punishment or labelling, simply...oh well, I still think you are a bad person.
I am sick of people being called racist, homophobe's or whatever, simply because they have a view contrary to that of the aboriginal, gay or other group which is making their point felt. There is no argument (or very little) about what has happened in the past. But I for one am sick of being blamed for the choices of governments or policies made 200, 100 or even 50 years ago. We as a society are a pretty decent bunch, but the majority are sick and tired of being told we are not.
By the way, perhaps we should start using the word predjudiced (look it up) rather than racist. It may be a little more accurate and a damn sight less inflamatory.
A strong argument from one of Australia's most intelligent indigenous commentators on real suffering, Dallas Scott: "As Adam walks out for his next game, before making his way onto that perfectly manicured stadium lawn, I suggest he take a deep, slow breath and reflect upon the reality of his life. Rather than having to emerge from the sheds for the ‘coloured people’, kept separate from the white folks playing beside him, he will run out after being supported by his entire team, not kept to the back. When he is thirsty, he doesn’t have to take a drink at the appropriately labelled drinking fountain, set aside for only folks with his racial identity, but rather will be served like a prince, with a special servant whose only job is to provide refreshments for the thirsty players, regardless of their skin colour or heritage. As he drives his brand new sports car to training, where he looks around at the other players arriving in their equally expensive vehicles and stops to realise he is paid just as much as them, if not more, he should perhaps pause a moment and wonder about whether he is fighting a war that has already been won, and instead of complaining from his position at the top, realise how those on the bottom rungs might be sick of hearing him whinging and would much rather he just got on with life."
We can all learn a lesson or two from Adam Goodes.
What began as an insult thrown by a child during a football match has turned into an epic saga, drawing in and devouring plenty in its wake. It didn’t need to be like this, but apparently over-reacting has spread like the common cold.
Goodes was the first to fall ill. During a football match, he heard insults directed at him, one of which was ‘ape’. Able to identify the culprit, he pointed her out and security removed the girl from her seat and gave her a lecture for a few hours. The media seized, the family were shamed, branded and humiliated, and ignorant people everywhere patted themselves on the back that their vitriolic revenge was justified in the name of stamping out racism in this country.
When it turned out that the young girl was a Collingwood supporter, Eddie was next to fall ill. He was immediately outraged and disgusted, telling all who would listen that he and his club would not tolerate racism. Sadly for Eddie, his ability to moderate a situation that was not yet at ‘code red’ down to a mere ‘whoops’ was either ravaged by the virus or unable to operate in tandem with any mention of race, and he was jumping on the bandwagon in full. The girl was made a pariah, and Eddie was hailed a friend to black guys everywhere…until of course, he made the same fundamental human error that the 13 year old girl had made herself. Suddenly, he was the pariah, and after coming out against ‘racism’ so strongly, he was left with nowhere to go and worse, he couldn’t claim to be underage OR unaware as an excuse for his ‘crime’.
And just what was the crime? To suggest that Adam Goodes might do well to get on board and promote a musical called ‘King Kong’. In typical Eddie fashion, he saw a way to make a buck out of a drama. Who else has done more to make apes famous than Adam Goodes in this country I ask you? It’s what I would have suggested if Adam Goodes had asked me how to climb out of the hole he was fast digging for himself at that point. Find the humour in the situation and show people that despite the controversy, you are not so invested in yourself that you can’t play any other role than the victim. Save your outrage and hurt feelings for the times when you’ve really, truly been vilified, rather than when you’re called a name by a kid as a grown man.
Who knows, if you show other people you are capable of finding the humour in things, you might not end up feeling so hurt and victimised yourself. That is a lonely life that only isolates you from others as your constant inability to forgive minor social transgressions will slowly but surely turn all but the most loyal from wanting to be a part of your life. They’ll all screw up at some point, everyone does, and the ones you haven’t driven away by a one-man jury verdict of ‘racist’ will eventually flee when they tire of your constant need to pick apart their comments like a paranoid crack addict through garbage.
Was all the hysteria worth it?
It was a 13 year old girl. A child. Someone who is entitled to privacy, and to the childhood right of making mistakes and behaving poorly at times without the entire country knowing their name, transgression, and labelling them as anything based on a few moments of their behaviour. No name she called anybody justifies the treatment she received. Those involved in the public shaming of this girl did not take a stand against racism, they frightened a child repeatedly, and made judgements about her family in public.
For what it’s worth, I’ve been called an ape, a monkey (as well as the more outdoorsy themed ‘porch monkey’) and plenty of other insults that I could easily say were used as a ‘racial slur’ against me. That does not stop me, however, from referring to myself these days - as I go through the aging process and attract more grey hairs - as ‘Silverback’. I like monkeys, I’m a hairy bloke, and I should be free to use whatever nicknames I like for myself. I tell my friends to do the same. It doesn’t mean I’m ignorant of the ‘historical context’ of hurt feelings of Aboriginal people over the years (the typical argument brought forth when you suggest ‘ape’ should not be a censored word), but that I’d rather use logic and reason instead of emotion when it comes to stuff like this. Logic tells me that when I’ve been called a name, it’s almost always because someone wanted to take a cheap shot and was angry or frustrated or wanting to appear superior, or some other powerful emotion that tends to blur our logical thought processes. Being that I’m easily identifiable as Aboriginal, the cheap shot will usually take the form of a racial slur. For others, it might be based on their weight, hair colour, appearance, religion, skin colour – it seems as humans we find a million ways to see differences in one another and separate ourselves according to those, and it would seem there is nobody who is immune from this.
As for Adam, well, in the end, I think he got what he really wanted. Before the game, he spoke of Nicky Winmar and his now historic stand against racism. As a man whose days are numbered at the top of his game, he really wants to be remembered like Nicky was. He wants a legacy. And as he inches closer to retirement from football, a job afterwards would be nice – perhaps the victim theatrics were just his way of auditioning for a job in the Industry. Viewing his performance from that angle, I give him an A++. They’re gonna love him. As for me, I can’t look up to you Adam. I’m ashamed of the way a child was used as a pawn to achieve your goal, and you should be too.
A sound and very well crafted post hezzy. You have put to paper what I suspect a lot of people feel but who for various reasons can't put their thoughts to paper in such a well laid out manner.
Bodie
Posts: 3758
Date Joined: 05/11/07
If he decides to come back
If he decides to come back and play there is no way they can police him being booed, hell I'd boo him out of principle....
Changing the game for the supporters because 1 player chucks a tantrum...come on.
Cousins gets banned for the AFL for bringing the game into disrepute (not convicted of drugs) how is what Goodes is being any different? He is tarnishing the game, alienating the supporters...
Now that its such a big deal swans supports have said they will sneak in eggs and egg anyone who boo's him... yep there is only one thing that's going to happen from all of this.. and its 1 mans fault.
Be a man Goodes, take responsibility for it.
NORUN NOFUN
Posts: 1035
Date Joined: 15/08/11
Found this on official AFL
Found this on official AFL website, funny how it was changed again the same day
bradz
Posts: 693
Date Joined: 29/10/07
Rationale
Whether we like it or not, there may be some racial (not racist) reasons behind the booing. But I think for the most part it is just a lowest common denominator type scenario. Much like the inane "Aussie, Aussie, Aussie - oi, oi, oi" chant. Most are embarrassed by it, but hundreds join in. Parhaps people shouldn't join in.
However, perhaps we should give some thought to this comment I read on another forum this morning.
Hanlons Razor (look it up on Wiki) : never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity (or perhaps naivety is a better word in this case)
What does sh*t me however is the comment by some people saying that 'Adam Goodes feels that it is racist and therefor we should stop'. That is totally sh*t. The reason for stopping should be because of the intent...not just because you say you believe it is the reason. If I tell you it is not the reason, then believe me. If you tell me that I am racist, and I am not, you should be tarred with a similar brush. Unfortunately being a false accuser of racism does not bare any punishment or labelling, simply...oh well, I still think you are a bad person.
I am sick of people being called racist, homophobe's or whatever, simply because they have a view contrary to that of the aboriginal, gay or other group which is making their point felt. There is no argument (or very little) about what has happened in the past. But I for one am sick of being blamed for the choices of governments or policies made 200, 100 or even 50 years ago. We as a society are a pretty decent bunch, but the majority are sick and tired of being told we are not.
By the way, perhaps we should start using the word predjudiced (look it up) rather than racist. It may be a little more accurate and a damn sight less inflamatory.
I did then the best that I knew how. When I knew better, I did better.
chris raff
Posts: 3257
Date Joined: 09/02/10
Good balanced post Bradz ..
Good balanced post Bradz ..
“Intelligence is like a four-wheel drive. It only allows you to get stuck in more remote places.”
Willlo
Posts: 1490
Date Joined: 07/10/11
Call Sign - BZ785
Haynes Hunter Prowler CC
sea-kem
Posts: 15008
Date Joined: 30/11/09
A strong argument from one
A strong argument from one of Australia's most intelligent indigenous commentators on real suffering, Dallas Scott:
"As Adam walks out for his next game, before making his way onto that perfectly manicured stadium lawn, I suggest he take a deep, slow breath and reflect upon the reality of his life. Rather than having to emerge from the sheds for the ‘coloured people’, kept separate from the white folks playing beside him, he will run out after being supported by his entire team, not kept to the back. When he is thirsty, he doesn’t have to take a drink at the appropriately labelled drinking fountain, set aside for only folks with his racial identity, but rather will be served like a prince, with a special servant whose only job is to provide refreshments for the thirsty players, regardless of their skin colour or heritage. As he drives his brand new sports car to training, where he looks around at the other players arriving in their equally expensive vehicles and stops to realise he is paid just as much as them, if not more, he should perhaps pause a moment and wonder about whether he is fighting a war that has already been won, and instead of complaining from his position at the top, realise how those on the bottom rungs might be sick of hearing him whinging and would much rather he just got on with life."
Love the West!
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
I was just about to post the
I was just about to post the same thing andy. it's great to see someone who knows real suffering put a real perspective into this argument.
Fish! HARD!
sea-kem
Posts: 15008
Date Joined: 30/11/09
I think he just summed it up
I think he just summed it up for everyone, this guy should have been Australian of the year for his level headed and realistic view.
Love the West!
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
this guy has it well summed
this guy dallas scott has it well summed up I reckon
hezzy
http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/adam-goodes-ensuring-racism-as-sport.html?m=1
Adam Goodes - ensuring racism as a sport
We can all learn a lesson or two from Adam Goodes.
What began as an insult thrown by a child during a football match has turned into an epic saga, drawing in and devouring plenty in its wake. It didn’t need to be like this, but apparently over-reacting has spread like the common cold.
Goodes was the first to fall ill. During a football match, he heard insults directed at him, one of which was ‘ape’. Able to identify the culprit, he pointed her out and security removed the girl from her seat and gave her a lecture for a few hours. The media seized, the family were shamed, branded and humiliated, and ignorant people everywhere patted themselves on the back that their vitriolic revenge was justified in the name of stamping out racism in this country.
When it turned out that the young girl was a Collingwood supporter, Eddie was next to fall ill. He was immediately outraged and disgusted, telling all who would listen that he and his club would not tolerate racism. Sadly for Eddie, his ability to moderate a situation that was not yet at ‘code red’ down to a mere ‘whoops’ was either ravaged by the virus or unable to operate in tandem with any mention of race, and he was jumping on the bandwagon in full. The girl was made a pariah, and Eddie was hailed a friend to black guys everywhere…until of course, he made the same fundamental human error that the 13 year old girl had made herself. Suddenly, he was the pariah, and after coming out against ‘racism’ so strongly, he was left with nowhere to go and worse, he couldn’t claim to be underage OR unaware as an excuse for his ‘crime’.
And just what was the crime? To suggest that Adam Goodes might do well to get on board and promote a musical called ‘King Kong’. In typical Eddie fashion, he saw a way to make a buck out of a drama. Who else has done more to make apes famous than Adam Goodes in this country I ask you? It’s what I would have suggested if Adam Goodes had asked me how to climb out of the hole he was fast digging for himself at that point. Find the humour in the situation and show people that despite the controversy, you are not so invested in yourself that you can’t play any other role than the victim. Save your outrage and hurt feelings for the times when you’ve really, truly been vilified, rather than when you’re called a name by a kid as a grown man.
Who knows, if you show other people you are capable of finding the humour in things, you might not end up feeling so hurt and victimised yourself. That is a lonely life that only isolates you from others as your constant inability to forgive minor social transgressions will slowly but surely turn all but the most loyal from wanting to be a part of your life. They’ll all screw up at some point, everyone does, and the ones you haven’t driven away by a one-man jury verdict of ‘racist’ will eventually flee when they tire of your constant need to pick apart their comments like a paranoid crack addict through garbage.
Was all the hysteria worth it?
It was a 13 year old girl. A child. Someone who is entitled to privacy, and to the childhood right of making mistakes and behaving poorly at times without the entire country knowing their name, transgression, and labelling them as anything based on a few moments of their behaviour. No name she called anybody justifies the treatment she received. Those involved in the public shaming of this girl did not take a stand against racism, they frightened a child repeatedly, and made judgements about her family in public.
For what it’s worth, I’ve been called an ape, a monkey (as well as the more outdoorsy themed ‘porch monkey’) and plenty of other insults that I could easily say were used as a ‘racial slur’ against me. That does not stop me, however, from referring to myself these days - as I go through the aging process and attract more grey hairs - as ‘Silverback’. I like monkeys, I’m a hairy bloke, and I should be free to use whatever nicknames I like for myself. I tell my friends to do the same. It doesn’t mean I’m ignorant of the ‘historical context’ of hurt feelings of Aboriginal people over the years (the typical argument brought forth when you suggest ‘ape’ should not be a censored word), but that I’d rather use logic and reason instead of emotion when it comes to stuff like this. Logic tells me that when I’ve been called a name, it’s almost always because someone wanted to take a cheap shot and was angry or frustrated or wanting to appear superior, or some other powerful emotion that tends to blur our logical thought processes. Being that I’m easily identifiable as Aboriginal, the cheap shot will usually take the form of a racial slur. For others, it might be based on their weight, hair colour, appearance, religion, skin colour – it seems as humans we find a million ways to see differences in one another and separate ourselves according to those, and it would seem there is nobody who is immune from this.
As for Adam, well, in the end, I think he got what he really wanted. Before the game, he spoke of Nicky Winmar and his now historic stand against racism. As a man whose days are numbered at the top of his game, he really wants to be remembered like Nicky was. He wants a legacy. And as he inches closer to retirement from football, a job afterwards would be nice – perhaps the victim theatrics were just his way of auditioning for a job in the Industry. Viewing his performance from that angle, I give him an A++. They’re gonna love him. As for me, I can’t look up to you Adam. I’m ashamed of the way a child was used as a pawn to achieve your goal, and you should be too.
Black Steam Train at 08:02
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
A very very good post
A sound and very well crafted post hezzy. You have put to paper what I suspect a lot of people feel but who for various reasons can't put their thoughts to paper in such a well laid out manner.
Thank you
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
lol nah not my words
lol
nah not my words meg
it was from dalals scotts blog black steam train
dallas scott, below... very interesting bloke who imo has it right
hezzy
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/dallas_scott_drop_the_race_talk/
more from him here , very straight talking bloke , if you have time read his blog
http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/who-is-more-aboriginal.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEnK6JO0k0Y
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing