Braid?

Alright - this may be a slightly simple question for most but I hope you guys can help me. What is the purpose of having braid on your reel - is it thinner than normal line of the same strength therfore one gets more line on the spool? and what is fireline?

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Stuart


wide open's picture

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braid

Thu, 2010-01-28 14:40

i dont like braid myself and dont like and prefer mono

but the advantages of braid are 

no stretch-feel bites better, good for deep sea fishing

thinner diameter for strenghth allowing better casts.

fit more on spool, 

but as i said i dont like braid have used it but went back to mono as instead of spending 40 bucks on a spool i can spend 5 bucks and it can be bad for some fish because of no stretch it rips the hooks out

Colin Hay's picture

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You are right in that it helps to get more line on a reel

Thu, 2010-01-28 14:40

But probably more importantly, as braid doesn't have the stretch of most mono lines you have greater contact with the fish, which allows you have a much better feel when a fish bites.
The thin diameter of the braid in comparison to mono also makes it easier to cast longer distances.

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wide open's picture

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braid

Thu, 2010-01-28 14:40

i dont like braid myself and dont like and prefer mono

but the advantages of braid are 

no stretch-feel bites better, good for deep sea fishing

thinner diameter for strenghth allowing better casts.

fit more on spool, 

but as i said i dont like braid have used it but went back to mono as instead of spending 40 bucks on a spool i can spend 5 bucks and it can be bad for some fish because of no stretch it rips the hooks out plus it has bad abrasion resistance

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simplistically, yes

Thu, 2010-01-28 14:45

it is thinner for the given line strength than mono.

Fireline is a brand of braid that is thermally fused together, while other brands of braids are weaved together. Generally the weaved ones are a lot more supple and less prone to fraying like Fireline.

 

It depends on the brand of braid, but say 30lb Fireline is the same thickness as say 10 - 12lb mono. I also remember reading somewhere that 80lb Suffix performance braid is about the same thickness as 20lb mono.

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JohnSorrell's picture

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Braid is much thinner than

Thu, 2010-01-28 14:58

Braid is much thinner than same lb mono, more sensitive, little to zero stretch. Means you can cast further & feel more bites... not so good for trolling, due to the lack of stretchiness. Also has poor abrasion resistance compared to mono.... so a mono or flurocarbon leader is required.

 

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Stuart Galgoen's picture

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Thanks chaps, you've

Thu, 2010-01-28 14:52

Thanks chaps, you've answered my qusetions. Because of the low abrasion factor would you say it's probably not be that suitable for rock fishing then? would you have a high abrasion mono [50-100m] then braid as backing?

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Stuart

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Stuart I use braid off the rocks all the time and do not

Thu, 2010-01-28 14:56

have an issue with abrasion. But I always use a mono leader to help deal with abrasion issues.

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Colin Hay's picture

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I will tell you another advantage of braid

Thu, 2010-01-28 15:02

When we are fishing some of favoured spots we are able to tell pretty accurately what is picking or biting on our baits. That is all due to the extra feel that the braid provides. The advantage of this is that if we feel that the whiting are attacking our baits we can quickly get a second rod set-up so that we can catch some whiting for bait. As it seems that when the whiting are biting there are no tailor around, we will often concentrate on catching whiting or herring so that we have good fresh baits when the tailor come back.

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Stuart Galgoen's picture

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Thanks Colin. How much

Thu, 2010-01-28 15:02

Thanks Colin. How much leader do you usualy use?

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Stuart

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I think most of the points

Thu, 2010-01-28 15:05

I think most of the points are covered. Pretty much have to have braid if you're jigging. Working a lot of lures/SP's effectively will be much easier, or only possible with braid (and preferably a graphite rod). Makes it much easier to impart finesse action. Being thinner, you dont need as much sinker weight when bottom bouncing, and can feel bites too (very useful to know as you can often tell if you're bait has been picked). If a braid is half the diameter of the mono, then you can fit 4 times as much on the reel. You can also use it for backing. Say, have 300m+ of braid on there and then topshot some mono. Replace the topshot as needed, but the braid can stay there for ages (also allows you to have heaps of backing if needed). You can also put only a small topshop on, perhaps several meters and have a fixed amount of stretch (i.e. you have enough stretch for headshakes, but when the fish is much futher out, you still have the same amount of stretch instead of heaps more stretch and less control).

Being thinner, you can use smaller reels as well (as long as they're strong enough). Also, braid doesnt tend to weaken over time like mono can, so you can keep the same braid on for perhaps 5 years, while mono will need to be changed (due to UV and other stuff). 

On abrasion resistance, remember than abrasion resistance is linked to the diameter of the line. 30lb braid is will have worse abrasion resistance than 30lb mono, but then its as thin as 8lb mono (which you'd also expect to ping off easily on rocks and stuff). If you used braid that had the same diameter as 30lb mono, then the abrasion resistance would be much better (I wonder if it would even be better...). Of course, when using braid, you'll usually run an appropriate leader (strength, diameter and length).

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A couple of metres is normally suffice for me Stuart

Thu, 2010-01-28 15:06

Some people suggest that you should have at least the length of the rod.

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Its probablty pretty bad for

Thu, 2010-01-28 15:08

Its probablty pretty bad for beach fishing too, lots of wear on the sand. Its awesome for spinng though. The lack of stretch can make it pretty dangerous for overhead casting too.

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Colin Hay's picture

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I don't find we have too many issues beach fishing with

Thu, 2010-01-28 15:20

braid Jamie. It can be a problem if there is some really big kelp type weed around as that can cause some abrasion issues if you get your braid tangled in it.

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hlokk's picture

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Also keep in mind, braids

Thu, 2010-01-28 15:14

Also keep in mind, braids can vary a fair bit between brands. E.g. fused braids like fireline, vs actual braided lines. Different coatings, different weave counts (affects smoothness). Some braids vastly underrate their rating (e.g. fireline) so will be thicker and 'stronger' than other braids. Some braids are rounder and some are flat (despite claiming to be round!). Some brands/braids really suck for casting too (mainly the flat and cheap ones). Some also fray and get hairy a bit (but not all).

Also, remember, you'll need to use different knots with braid (one of the supposed reasons that some manufacturers downgrade their rating, so people dont complain it breaks under when using crappy knots). Uni-uni's arent that great between braid and mono btw...

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Matt is spot on there

Thu, 2010-01-28 15:24

Though I have found that if I double my braid over when using a uni knott to connect my main line to the leader that it is extremely strong and will not slip.

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Try it on the scales though

Thu, 2010-01-28 15:28

Try it on the scales though Wink

 

Most of the time, its going to break above your drag strength anyways, so in practice, it wont break......most of the time (I just dont like using 50-60% knots when I can use 90% knots)

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So what knot would you recommend there Matt

Thu, 2010-01-28 15:40

Do you have a favourite that is a really low profile for casting and can be easily tied while standing in the dark on the rocks amongst the waves.

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Well, in certain cases, a

Thu, 2010-01-28 16:05

Well, in certain cases, a compromise is required ;)    (best doesnt always mean easiest, or not always strongest, but in general, I like the strongest)

Though, why was the knot broken out there in the first place, hahaha
(ok, there can be valid reasons not relating to the knot strength)

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It hasn't been a knot break Matt it is usually being snagged up

Thu, 2010-01-28 16:19

on a reef and having the line snap where the line is trapped. To be honest with you since I have been doubling the braid over on my unit knots I have never had a knot fail, the break has always occurred well down the main line (unfortunately as that means you lose a fair bit of braid).

I am serious about a learning a better knot though mate as long as it is something that is reasonably easy to tie.

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Stuart Galgoen's picture

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Gee thanks guys, you've

Thu, 2010-01-28 15:17

Gee thanks guys, you've really given me some good points to ponder over.

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Stuart

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The other thing you need to bare in mind is that

Thu, 2010-01-28 15:21

braid is very unforgiving when it is pulled across skin. You can get some nasty cuts casting (hey Sherbs) or if you have it laying across your finger and a fish runs hard.

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i like to compare mono vs

Thu, 2010-01-28 16:25

i like to compare mono vs braid like this ... fighting a fish with mono is smooth and silky (due to the stretch in the line) .... fighting a fish on briad is like running over a brick with a lawnmower - i'll take the lawn mower every time ... you feel everything .. the only reels of mine not running braid are trolling reels and my 2lb bream/whiting reel (because ive never seen braid that light)

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Fireline used to be available in one and two pound I think Feral

Thu, 2010-01-28 17:28

I had some for the 2lb challenge competitions we had awhile back. I don't know what the true breaking strain would have been though.

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wide open's picture

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i prefer mono

Thu, 2010-01-28 16:27

and hate using braid but for what i do mono is perfect as i cant afford the extra bucks for braid

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 Ever heard of the Slim

Thu, 2010-01-28 19:38

 Ever heard of the Slim Beauty?? :)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi4BE-vNqPE

 

I recon thats the way to go when using braid, and connecting to mono. It should be finished off with uni knot or locked blood knot with the braid tag going back up the main braid.

Its not the quickest knot to do, would definatly cause a few problems at night.. but casts great and is very strong.

 

just my 2 cents worth..

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A couple of things I didn't

Thu, 2010-01-28 19:55

A couple of things I didn't see (sorry if they were mentioned) -

Fireline has no memory - meaning it holds it shape. So if you bend it in half, the kink stays in there. Has it's upside and downside.

I have found braid particularly painful around rocks - it seems to snag easily and is a right b*stard to get back out.

In saying that though, I'm using braid on my biggest reel (Fin Nor OF95) and fireline on my smaller reels. I find the fireline extremely good for light fishing and love the fact that I can get an extra 150m or so of line on the OF95 (great for ballooning)!

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How can line remember if it

Fri, 2010-01-29 09:01

How can line remember if it was kinked / bent in half if it has no memory? :P

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Don't even mention the

Thu, 2010-01-28 20:00

Don't even mention the locked blood knot, its not even good for mono.




There is a variation of that knot where you pull a loop of braid through the figure 8, run a double thread up rthe mono line, back down again, and through the braid loop just before the figure 8.

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it wouldnt matter what knot

Thu, 2010-01-28 20:09

it wouldnt matter what knot you used really, its only there to finish the tag off neatly and thus help it slide through the guides more easily. 

 

 

Ed_Rush's picture

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3 words...

Sat, 2010-01-30 15:40

Hal Harvey Joiner.

this is the knot i use to connect my braid to a leader.

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