building a home in two rocks

so my wife and i are pretty keen on building a house in Two rocks. We went to the bank to see how much they would lend us and its pretty ridiculous but they said the maxium we could lend is $941000. Not that we plan on borrowing that much. This will be our first purchase and just wanted any advice from people that have gonr through the steps of building. we found a block we like and know that two rocks doesnt have deep water sewerage so we will have to put in a septic tank that will cost $8500 and retaining will cost a bit. What other costs should i be thinking off? Regards Josh

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little johnny's picture

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Survey, block level

Sun, 2018-06-03 07:57

And compaction ( earthworks). Both of these not cheap. That's just the start.

scano's picture

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If starting from scratch

Sun, 2018-06-03 08:01

 Could you build it off grid style? 

So generate your own power, have a huge rainwater tank etc. if you want to live there long term it would save you heaps in ongoing cost’s, as well as making the house unique and attractive from a sale point of view in later years.

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Vinesh87's picture

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 Would be awesome but damn

Sun, 2018-06-03 10:53

 Would be awesome but damn expensive still. Solar and batteries huge $$ and undeground water tanks not cheap! Wanted to do it myself!

Meeuwissen's picture

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i guess that would be up for council

Sun, 2018-06-03 08:47

 approval but the area we are set on is already pretty bulit up 

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Dale's picture

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Sun, 2018-06-03 09:17

 Make sure your garage door is high enough to fit a land cruiser or similar if you own one. Seeing many places around here where the garage door is not high enough.

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 Ain’t that the truth. My

Sun, 2018-06-03 09:22

 Ain’t that the truth. My rental in Perth is just high enough to get a cruiser in at standard height but not long enough to fit one in with taking the tow bar off. 

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 My boat just slides in mine

Sun, 2018-06-03 09:47

 My boat just slides in mine height wise Dale, that was the prerequisite of getting it. I'll be rebuilding it in the next year.

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Vinesh87's picture

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 Im just waiting for Andy to

Sun, 2018-06-03 10:54

 Im just waiting for Andy to come and lift my shed roof 1.5m so i can get the boat in hahaha 

Rob H's picture

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Contracts

Sun, 2018-06-03 09:47

 When you come to sign the contract with the builder, beware of the trap of including items you think you may want but not certain.

For example the builder says “your probably going to want evaporative AC in the living area, we,ve allowed $8k”

Later you decide “na we want refrigerative ducted instead” or want him to build a patio instead.

You pay the builder a fee to change and quote, he keeps his 15-20% markup on your $8k, then you pay that markup again on the new gear.

Similar if you don’t want it all, he keeps the markup.

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The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

sea-kem's picture

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 And we wonder why tradies

Sun, 2018-06-03 10:08

 And we wonder why tradies dump loads of rubble on newly completed houses, there really needs to be a shake up in the industry. I do work for one small builder but it's more commercial work. They are shocking payers but run a tight ship and have been around for a long time, so I know I will eventually get paid. 

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 Big builders are scum imo. A

Sun, 2018-06-03 10:52

 Big builders are scum imo. A lot of their project managers are on profit share therefore will do anything to rip a dollar of you. One builder I worked for was holding our monthly payments for 120 days using us as a bank. Then at the end rip over 20k of me for variation works (I got written instructions from them) which I’ll never see. I am just happy I wasn’t working for Cooper and Oxley. I’ll never work for a builder again. 

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 Yeah I hear you mate,need to

Sun, 2018-06-03 11:03

 Yeah I hear you mate,need to be careful and on the front foot with them. They didn't pay me for a job over Xmas and was nearly 3 months. The supervisor got all offended when he rung up for another job and told I wasn't doing anything for them till I got paid. I also pointed out that the jobs I do are on time to a good standard and always reasonably priced. I aslo pointed out that I'm running a business too, fark em.

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Sun, 2018-06-03 10:08

 Count how many power points they provide and then double or triple it.

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 And make sure they are in

Sun, 2018-06-03 11:40

 And make sure they are in conduits and not just.chased and cemented in the wall.

Including light switches.

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Sounds minor but is costly

Sun, 2018-06-03 10:16

Sounds minor but is costly later on.

Make sure the PE plumbing pipe underground is in a conduit under the house and is not PN12.5

This is stuff you shouldnt have to tell any reputable builder, but discovered myself this is not the case.

When it splits under the house pad you can be up for a very expensive replumbing job.

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 Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...

 

 

The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

Vinesh87's picture

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 Even better dont run it

Sun, 2018-06-03 10:51

 Even better dont run it under the house! No need for it!

Rob H's picture

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 Even then it will almost

Sun, 2018-06-03 15:46

 Even then it will almost inevitably go under driveways, paths, sheds etc.
For the sake of a $100 of storm water pipe to run it thru.
The size lots many build on in Perth now Id think it impossible not to go under but if the builder/plumber can save $50 doing it they do, as I found out.

On a house that wasnt cheap or by a major company. 

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 Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...

 

 

The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

Vinesh87's picture

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 Yeh i guess in yhe smaller

Sun, 2018-06-03 18:13

 Yeh i guess in yhe smaller blocks yes. My house i managed to not go under any pad or wall just 1 run under the driveway to cross to my shed and that was about 200m run but thats because i ran myself i guess. Used PN 20 everywhere and ran dvw 100mm under the drive!

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 Yeah I worked out that the

Sun, 2018-06-03 20:10

 Yeah I worked out that the plumber saved around $75 at my place and used PN12.5 25mm, no conduit in a pipe that ran right around the front of my house under my paths, built in garage and driveways which are exposed ag.

Twice the same length has split, first time I managed to intercept it by cutting a 250mm wide strip from path and running a PN20 around the path.

Then last month I noticed the water usage, leaking again but right under garage-impossible to replace.
To replumb the house from the north side $5K plus and still have to cut some feature paths up.

LUCKILY-discovered that 20mm PN16 just fits into PN12.5 (not into PN16 though) and managed to run 30 meters of it through the 25mm.
Plumber said it cant be done but went like a rat up a drain pipe-=10 minutes.

No pressure drop noticeable-halleluyah 

All to save $75 on a house that cost more than most...

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 Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...

 

 

The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

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 So lucky good work!

Sun, 2018-06-03 20:23

 So lucky good work!

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Variation

Sun, 2018-06-03 10:40

 

Hi Josh,

Rob is correct when it comes to changes to build, caled variation of contract and each time you make a minor change they charge a fee

Really do your homework on who you build with, remember that a lot of companies are under the same banner so not as many builders as you think

I built with a reputable company who is supposed to be one of Perths best, the name has 3 words in it

Things went bad from the start when the pad was poured short and they tried to cover it up by adding a bit of concrete, luckily we were all over it

The tiles in all wet areas had to be laid 4 times because of poor workmanship

The floors had to be resanded and sealed due to stuff up's

Along with other issues that occurred, so I will never build again, if I had my time over I would purchase an established property,

Dale makes a good point about Garage, mine is 7.5 x 7.5 which allows for 2 vehicles comfortably

Earth works can be a killer although shouldn't be too bad out at Two Rocks, but be careful the builder might say you need and Engineering report so they can work out how deep the footings need to be, this is something that can be costly for no reason, bloody hell it's sand after all

Sorry for sounding Negative, but it can be hard work and stressful, but hopefully it will be a breeze for you.

 

 

 

 

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 Skull

Meeuwissen's picture

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hey skull i would

Sun, 2018-06-03 10:46

 rather have people like your self with the real experience then just go in blind. Buying an estblished home isnt out the question but the street im looking on nothing is cheaper then 750 k with views that this block has got. 

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Get the block checked for the

Sun, 2018-06-03 11:24

Get the block checked for the possibility of limestone, can ramp up your site works costs substantially and is often what they call a 'provisional' sum in the contract which effectively means althought a builder may have quoted you for site works, if they discover limestone on day one you'll be up for the additional costs - can literally run into tens of thousands - seen it happen. Makes some blocks almost unsaleable once the secret is out.

If the block has been on the market for some time there may be a reason why - try and speak to a few locals and get a feel for the area, it's amazing what you can learn.

Being a debbie downer for a reason - building a new home is fraught with danger. If you do decide to build be prepared to keep a very close eye on proceedings. Hey, some people have a dream run - some don't.

Pretty hard to beat established for value at the moment compared to building but of course with a new home you get what you want.

 

https://www.mbawa.com/prime-costs-and-provisional-sums/

 

 

Vinesh87's picture

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 Just finished building! A

Sun, 2018-06-03 10:49

 Just finished building! A long way for you! Did a heap myself!

Septics cheap at 8500, ours ended up at about 8500 in materials haha. Its based on how many bathrooms. We ended up with 2 huge tanks, 5000l combined, pump pit and 2 x 17m leach drains backfilled with aggregate! See what 8500 gets you i personally woulnt go plastic.

 

Get your soaks put in when you do septics when they have the big excavator there. Cheaper than builder as theyll bring a 1.5t machine yo do the drains!

 

Site works depends on your block, rock and clay can make for huge costs like 100k kinda huge or if sand maybe 5k haha

 

Check your power requirements, western power can charge huge amounts for your Green dome if they have to bore! If its a large block i def recommend SMSB at front of block and then underground power to shed/house meter out the front.

 

 

Meeuwissen's picture

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wow gongrats on your new home.

Sun, 2018-06-03 11:17

 how did you chose your block ? like what did you do before you put a offer in? 

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Vinesh87's picture

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 Ive had my block for ages.

Sun, 2018-06-03 11:46

 Ive had my block for ages. Just got sick of the azzy house. Ive got 3 acres so a bit different! Can always check with structerre and see what the soil and  footing ratings will be? 

 

Also check your BAL fire rating can add for big $$ if your Bal 40 i was BA12.5 added a few k

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 you can design your house to

Sun, 2018-06-03 11:51

 you can design your house to suit the levels on your block ie.sucken lounge or carport to minimise the earthworks and the possible import or export of fill. I also reckon that designing your house to suit the block adds character and adds to the value in the end. retaining walls and fill sand are expensive to buy and install which could be used on the house. Limestone blocks are the best form of retaining if you need to retain and twin side is crap imo but a lot cheaper.

Also be aware that there is a lot of rock in the ground and not very deep. This can cost a bit especially when doing your septic’s. The material from the septic’s can be used as fill. As others have said make your carport wider and deeper than the average. Mine is 32 course high by 7.5 wide and 7.0 deep. Try and keep side access to the rear of your house so you can park the boat or caravan. 

A good designer if you take them to your block would be able to give you a few ideas and would also know rough figures on what it may cost. I would also break the job down to earthworks, septic’s, and just get the builder to build the house that way the builder doesn’t get to mark up these big ticket items. Get plenty of quotes and don’t pay until you’re happy with the works but you also have to be fair and reasonable.   

The bank may not go for it but if you get quotes and go to the bank prepared they might go for it otherwise if you got a bit of money aside use that.

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 The downside of breaking it

Sun, 2018-06-03 15:51

 The downside of breaking it down like that is that any issues get blamed on the other.
Such as cracking, builder blames earthworks, they blame builder and the only one who DIDNT do anything wrong pays the bill

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 Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...

 

 

The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

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Date Joined: 30/12/09

I guess it depends on how

Sun, 2018-06-03 16:48

I guess it depends on how much earthworks there is. If it’s just a quick 3 hour pad job yeah sure get the builder to do it. If there’s a lot of dirt to bring in or cart away or rock to break out I would be arranging that myself and insisting that the earthworks contractor supplies compaction certificates for every 300mm of fill installed and get it independently tested every metre of fill and at finished ground level. The builder will always do the house pad and they will provide a compaction certificate for that. That’s pretty much how subdivision are done and everyone build on them. The builder won’t test the existing ground they will only test what they put in. 

 

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 Get busy living, or get busy dying!

Rob H's picture

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 Just dont be afraid to ask

Sun, 2018-06-03 15:56

 Just dont be afraid to ask questions.
If your not sure what you should ask, you can easily hire someone to oversee the project and report to you.

When doing the contract and stuff dont be afraid to ask or query stuff and dont be blown off.

If they get shirty or bypass your question with "thats the way its done etc" you are definitely asking the right questions.

Then its time to consider someone else as your builder.

If its a big builder especially find some homes theyve done and speak to the owner.

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 Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...

 

 

The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

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Caves.

Sun, 2018-06-03 16:09

 Try and get hold of a ground survey on the underlying soil. i know from a buddy that there is a lot of caves & holes in the limestone up there. Not saying you are in that area, but best to check if you can. He had a block on Breakwater Drive & found out why they would only let him build on an allocated area of the block. There was a cave under there.

Good luck with the build, exciting time ahead for ya.

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Cheers & Stay safe

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 I  m slowly building on a

Sun, 2018-06-03 17:10

 I  m slowly building on a block in Lancelin 

bought my own 8.5t backhoe- once i got quotes for power trench, septic, water trench etc etc alos using it to put up shed posts etc

 

put in the neighbours septic today 

she got the tanks and leachies 

i  put it in and will close it up

building is a c$^t of a thing tho

more stress than losing a spouse they reckon                                            

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Your comment is right on shark1

Sun, 2018-06-03 19:35

Be prepared to do a lot of home work before you sign any pieces of paper, the comments about caves is also very important people who built behind me had Hugh expense's
they didn't expect because a cave was discovered underneath their block.
Ask around if there are people who have built close to the area you are planning on building in, a lot of good advice has been given above by asking questions you are going to have a good handle on just exactly is going to happen and why.

IMO if ever there is an industry that needs a royal commission run through it it is the building industry, just look at what the banking financial industry royal commission is uncovering.

Meeuwissen's picture

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thanks everyone

Mon, 2018-06-04 06:24

 for the great advice. My mother in law mentioned the caves also. The good thing is we can see ourselves living in broome for a few more years but definitely want to move back to perth when we have kids, so doing all the research now and when i have all my ducks in a row ill make my move.

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Hey Stay Salty, met with 3

Mon, 2018-06-04 22:49

Hey Stay Salty, met with 3 architects that do modest scale work, they will share a wealth of helpful information and ideas with you.