Does a rod take some of the load off the reel?

Hey fellas

 

>Someone told me me that the rod takes around 66% of the load. So even though a reel may have 5kg max drag you need a 15kg load on the end of the line to exceed this.

 

How true is this statement? 

 

So in essence even though the max drag is 5kg, 30lb(15kg) line and a 30lb rod would be best if you want all your gear to be on the same failure plane.

Thanks

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 BC


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Date Joined: 01/02/10

 Nope. There is a slight

Tue, 2017-09-19 04:53

 Nope. There is a slight amount of extra drag over the guides but it isn't as much as you would think.

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Hutch's picture

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 Depends on the rod.A 15 foot

Tue, 2017-09-19 05:46

 Depends on the rod.

A 15 foot surf rod at 90 degrees will have more friction than a 5 foot jigging rod at 45 degrees

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Feral's picture

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 I'm struggling to wrap my

Tue, 2017-09-19 12:05

 I'm struggling to wrap my head around the question..  A 30lb rod should be used with 30lb line and the drag should be set at 10lb... 

That's not the failure point of the rod or reel (don't max drag a reel).  The rod will just be at its efficient curve at that point but will handle a fair bit more usually...  

The reel should be used within its manufactures guidelines (pe or lb line capacity will be on the spool)..  Even high gear has limits (someone complained on fb the other day that a 4500 saltiga died while using pe 6 line..  It's not a pe6 reel even if it can put down 15kg of drag) 

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Yes and No

Tue, 2017-09-19 16:06

Yes the rod does take some load ... but I would suggest it is closer to the truth saying the REEL generally takes about 66% or more (depends on many factors like rod length and stiffness, line thickness, drag settings, etc ...)

For example, if I put a set of scales on the end of the line of one of my rods and pull the line straight off the reel (ie. straight rod/no resistance) I get about 2kg of reel drag on the scales. When in a boat rod holder and pulled straight down (ie. as would likely happen bottom bouncing), then due to the extra resistance from the rod curvature, the scales register about 3kg. That is, under load, with 3kg of pressure applied to the tip, about 2kg of pressure is loaded down on the reel (66% of the load on to the reel). The other 1kg of pressure is stored in the rod's resistance. (NB: it took about 2.5kg to pull line off at something in between the two, as would likely happen shore based fishing).

If you choose to fish with 30lb line, then it may actually break at about 20lb at the knot (or weakest point). To be safe, it stands to reason to put no more than about half of that pressure on the line ... therefore, 30lb line should not be fished with anything greater than about 10lb of pressure (about a third). Likewise, if a rod is weighted at 30lb, then you want to avoid breaking the thing, so about 10-15lb of pressure on the rod. If you have a reel capable of 5kg drag, then unless you want to shorten the lifespan of your reel, you should not exceed about 3kg of drag on that reel.
So even though I may disagree with your 66% load on the rod theory, your combination of 5kg/30lb/30lb is not far off what I would subscribe to (assuming the 5kg drag is the theoretical maximum but in practice 3kg of less would be used).

For what it's worth, I run the following on my boat rod bottom bouncing, about 2kg/4lb drag (has a maximum of 17lb at strike), 80lb braid and rod 80lb.
And on standup game rod, I run about 4kg/9lb drag (or less, has a maximum of 25lb at strike), 30lb mono, rod 30lb.

It comes down to horses for courses and how you want to play/fight/dominate your catch.

Hutch's picture

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May I ask why you only run

Tue, 2017-09-19 16:13

May I ask why you only run 2kg of drag with 80lb gear?

Surely it'd make more sense to either use a more appropriate drag setting or downscale your gear if you're adamant on light drag settings

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luke george's picture

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 I was just about to ask the

Tue, 2017-09-19 18:09

 I was just about to ask the same question.

Feral's picture

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 Im pretty sure everyone is

Wed, 2017-09-20 22:20

 Im pretty sure everyone is thinking the same thing :)

Ill be interested to see a reply 

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what about water pressure on

Tue, 2017-09-19 17:06

what about water pressure on the line

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 Interesting, I think the

Tue, 2017-09-19 20:24

 Interesting, 

I think the consensus is... Not much and depends on the rod.

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 BC

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Date Joined: 22/04/15

I'm also curious

Thu, 2017-09-21 09:03

I'm also curious how much drag (measured) the rest of you are actually running on your day to day outfits and if you know what your line's actual breaking strain on the knot is (again measured)? 
At 2kg of drag, with the reel at strike, when I want to manually check the drag (throughout the day), I can only just pull line off by hand.
If I put the reel in to overstrike, that is over 5kg of drag and I can't pull line off by hand.
I have tested what it is like at 3kg and under load, that has my arm shaking and legs wobbling trying to keep balance.
I want to fish comfortably and that 80lb rod and line is still sensitive enough to feel whiting bites but gives me the confidence to catch 20kg+ fish (it has accounted for 7foot+ 100kg+ bronzie to the boat and conseratively more than 100 Dhuies ... admittedly, not all 50cm+).

Feral's picture

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 this makes no sense to me at

Thu, 2017-09-21 09:13

 this makes no sense to me at all..  3kg of drag and your struggling?  Really? 

I set my drags with scales before each outing.  On my pe8 gear it's set at 10kg (saltiga 6500) drag knob is tightened up till its difficult to spin the spool by hand is pretty close. 

Pe10 gear is set at 12-13kg.

These settings are recorded with reel on rod and rod under load (45 angle as I'm top water fishing) 

My pe8 bottom gear is tested at 90deg angle at 10kg

Feral's picture

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 as for breaking strain of my

Thu, 2017-09-21 09:26

 as for breaking strain of my line.  Using FG knot or bimini twist to GT knot connecting my leaders my pe8 line breaks at about 90lb. (jerry brown 100lb and varivas GT max) the pe10 gear is very hard to break (usually wrap the line around something and reverse the boat to break it)  

Feral's picture

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Ahh wait up..  What's your

Thu, 2017-09-21 09:18

Ahh wait up..  What's your actual measured drag at strike?? I think your measuring the first little push of the lever as your "set drag"..  Your strike drag should be the measurement 

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 Think there is a problem

Thu, 2017-09-21 09:36

 Think there is a problem with the way you are measuring your drags. I do a lot of line class mono fishing so my drags are regularly checked with drag scales. 3kg is roughly equivalent to what I would run on a 10kg outfit. Something I'm comfortable giving 8 year olds to catch their first billfish. My 11 year old handles 5kg of strike drag on a 15kg combo no problem.

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Testing your claims

Thu, 2017-09-21 12:45

I have been testing what I have been posting.

If I say 3kg of drag, to me that means if I hold the reel in my hand, tie 3kg of drag to the end of the line, then NO line drag will occur. If I add 100g more to the weight and I see the first sign of drag, then that is 3kg of drag. I have also been checking my results with digital scales.

I also did a quick search on the web for drag settings and quickly found two game fishing articles suggesting 3-5kg of drag for Sailfishing and 10% of the weight of the expected fish.

Last year I caught a 20kg+ Wahoo on 4kg drag on my standup game gear. It took about 1 or 2 minutes to get to the boat.

I can do 10 reps of 20kg bicep dumbell curls easier than lifting (with one lever arm) 5kg tied to the end of the rod. Go and tie 5kg to the end of your combo and see just how easy you manage to do 10 lifts with just your lever arm.

Given my research and testing, I doubt that many people have a good understanding and respect of just how much pressure 5kg of drag is.

Feral's picture

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 I'm still not convinced.

Thu, 2017-09-21 15:19

 I'm still not convinced.  Something is wrong here.  With my short jigging rods I can pick a 10kg weight off the ground and hold that position for a long time.  I'm not saying it doesn't stress the lower back after a while but 3 kg I could hold that for hours and not be stressed at all.

With my 8foot casting rods the same 10kg weight starts to hurt lot faster if the rod is at full curve (fish under boat) but I can deal with the pressure long enough to land GT (maybe 5+ minutes) 

And I don't even go to the gym (and probably couldn't curl 20kg) 

D_d_001's picture

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its just leverage guysferal

Thu, 2017-09-21 15:47

its just leverage guys
feral you are probs using a 5'2" nice parabolic rod ....lift 10kg ...heaps of bend which brings the leverage - distance between you and weight - closer.
blue - prob using (no offence) a broomstick 6' distance between weight (fish) and you further away.

that's why using a good parabolic rod is so nice to fish with

Edit: FWIW I use shimano 5000 reel 30lb braid. pe1-3 rod for demersal fishing metro with about 3kg drag: no fish around that need more than that.

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Feral's picture

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 I agree that parabolic rods

Thu, 2017-09-21 16:02

 I agree that parabolic rods help . And yes my jigging gear is very much like this for that exact reason . But my girlfriend runs a 8'6" pe 8 popper rod and can hold 9-10kg of drag and she is a lightweight :) ill shut up now but i cant be the only one that finds this strange ..your combo sounds exactly right D_d but i hope it doesnt make you sweat and shake :)

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As D_d says, if I try to lift

Thu, 2017-09-21 17:46

As D_d says, if I try to lift 5kg tied straight to my reel, I can easily lift that 5kg up and down with one arm with very little strain at all.

Likewise if I tie that 5kg to the end of a one foot solid rod (eg. a piece of iron or wood).
If I tie that 5kg to the end of a 6' broom handle (no bend), then I am now struggling to lift that one armed (due to the distance from the body).
My bottom bouncing 80lb rod is only 5'6" and that makes me strain to lift 5kg.
I have also tested a 6'9" 100lb spinning rod and that is even harder.
Likewise, my 8' Saltiga is harder again when lifting that 5kg straight off the floor.
 
Ferals smaller length jigging rod would make 5kg feel easier than my rods.
 
But Feral, I would be very surprised if you (or your girlfriend) could comfortably lift 9 or 10kg of weight tied to the end of your 8'6" popper rod (that's if the rod doesn't break first).
Try it and let me know (or tie 10kg to the end of a broom and see how you go).
 
For the record, I'll possibly be doing some GT fishing in the next month and I'll probably be setting my drag somewhere above 5kg (but still less than 10kg on a 6500 reel with 15kg drag).
As I say, horses for courses.

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 Hope you have plenty of

Thu, 2017-09-21 18:13

 Hope you have plenty of poppers to donate.

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Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?

Feral's picture

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 very true about the horses

Fri, 2017-09-22 10:01

 very true about the horses for courses :) 

You'll enjoy popping for GT and if your visiting around Karratha area let me know and we will have a beer