Stern drives Vs 4 Stroke outboards
Submitted by Tandawg on Thu, 2010-03-25 12:23
Hi all,
The thought has come across to upgrade from the 5.5m to something bigger for the family.
Currently I have a 115H yamaha 4 stroke and very happy with it.
Investigating a craft with a Mercruiser stern drive. 5.3L I think for a 6.8m ally. Probably around 220HP.
Any pros and cons of the above as I have never had a stern drive before.
Thank you
Chris
HuggyB
Posts: 2515
Date Joined: 03/08/08
weight
sterndrives are significantly heavier v an outboard for the same power. How that affects the balance of the boat I guess depends on the boat? And you cant get the engine all the way out of the water like an outboard. Servicing costs on a sterndrive are also higher. And lastly the sterndrive eats into your cockpit space (read fishing area) far more than an outboard does.
The Terrorist - coming to a fishing spot near you.........
STEVE231
Posts: 1443
Date Joined: 05/01/10
Stern drives
Chris, I have heard they are very thirsty, one of my neighbors owns a 22ft Trophy walkaround with a stern drive and reckons the fuel costs are huge. I spoke to him before I bought my boat and he recommended that I steer well clear of them. I ended up buying the same Trophy boat, but spent the extra to have the outboard model. I put a 175 Optimax on the back, and fuel economy is brilliant. Outboards all the way for me because boating has to be affordable!!
Feral
Posts: 1508
Date Joined: 01/11/06
im running a stern drive in
im running a stern drive in my plate ally and i love it .. ive driven all sorts of boats over the years and the weight is the main factor . fuel figures should be similar as long as your talking about new motors and not old ones .. ive just done a repower and new leg on my boat and the diffenance is staggering over the old motor . both where 350 chev's with similar legs and props but the old one was a carby model and pretty old with about 200 - 220hp .. the new one is the merc 350 motor but fuel injected pushing 300hp .. im using close to half the fuel and my WOT went from about 20kn to over 30kn.
just be aware some boats require the weight in the hull and forward like in the sterndrives ..
alfred
Posts: 3097
Date Joined: 12/01/07
I have had a stern drive
I have had a stern drive before and I must say that I really liked it. Good fuel economy and cheaper to maintain then a 4 stroke outboard. Well at least cheaper to maintain then a 4 stroke Verado.
Just make sure the universal is in good nick, that is the weak point.
antsey
Posts: 134
Date Joined: 13/02/10
i have a 8.1litre mercruiser
i have a 8.1litre mercruiser 375hp its a great motor my boat is a bertram 25 and it reaches about 40 knots in moderate conditions yer sterdrives realy take up alot of fishing space and the fuel is expensive
kempy
Posts: 810
Date Joined: 28/05/09
got the 5 litre merc stern
got the 5 litre merc stern drive wid the bravo 2 leg cant complain
Dinkum Auto Electrical A/C & Mechanical Unit 10/16 Kent way Malaga 0438755754 Also Mobile
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Faulkner Family
Posts: 18056
Date Joined: 11/03/08
we are running a 350 chev
we are running a 350 chev with a single barrel holly carby in a 23 foot fraser , its not overley fast had it up to 34knts in flat conditions but the boat weighs over 2.2 tonne and i use around 80ltrs of fuel sitting on around 23knts to do a round trip of aprox 55nm. imo it is cheap to run , not to mention if you do need to replace the motor the cost is a great deal cheaper.
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
Iceman
Posts: 747
Date Joined: 17/03/09
We have run both stern drive
We have run both stern drive and outborads on our rescue boats and I have also had both on my boats. The main issues are weight and space the stern derive take up in your deck area. Have found even 2 stroke outborads to be better on fuel. Also if work needed on stern drive they may need to take engine out of the boat which is additional cost, where as they can work on the outboard whilst it is on the boat. If going for Stern Drive you need to make sure you have sufficient ventlilation. We always openned the hatch before starting to ensure there was no build up of petrol fumes. Most fires on boats occure with stern drive because of lack of ventilation.
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The_Wanderer
Posts: 735
Date Joined: 24/09/08
As iceman said most fires
As iceman said most fires start due to petrol fumes from sterndrives. If it was me I'd be going outboard opposed to a petrol sterndrive. Easier to service, reduced chance of a fire from fume build up and more importantly no intrusion on valuable deck space.
Ben
Muppet
Posts: 408
Date Joined: 23/11/09
Ally & sterndrive = nice
Chris, i'm running a 5.7 merc mpi horizon sterndrive with a bravo 2 leg. I have had a 200hp 4 stroke suzuki outboard before my latest boat. The fuel difference isnt that huge as long as you dont drive around at WOT all the time, as is the same with any motor. At revs between 3000- 4000 im getting well over 1km per lt. thats not bad considering the weight of the boat. fibreglass 7 mt. If i was considering an ally boat, i would definantly be looking at a sterndrive, more weight down low and forward of the transom. I bet my left nut the boat will ride and handle better. Most ally boats are too light and dont ride the way they should because of the 250 kg's hanging of the back of the transom. The servicing costs arent much different. In Perth it was anywhere between $700 - 1000 depending what needed to be done. My four stroke wasnt much different.
cheers
.
Brucesta
Posts: 1721
Date Joined: 29/05/09
oldies have previously owned
oldies have previously owned a 6.5m Leeder with a 350 chev sterndrive, yes the motor take up room but it made a perfect bait board/rigging location and with the marlin board off the back when you moved from one side of the boat to the other fighting a fish you didn't have to dodge the outboard.
It was a carby model and a little old but it was still economical within reason and we'd get about a litre per kilometre. Personally nothing was better then having a flat day with 4 or so boats in front of you all heading for the ramp and then just planting it with that big V8 bellowing behind you puching you to 43knots, puts a smile on your dial.
I wouldn't shy away from a bigger boat with a strendrive if it's a newer model with EFI, the good thing is for someone like me i know my way around a car motor so i feel comfortable when checking things over.
Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
ok, I have had both and my
ok, I have had both and my last three boats all sterndrives now. That tells you something.
Firstly I have had a V6 Mercruisr 220hp MPI in a 21foot Bayliner Trophy. It was very ecconimical being fuel injected and with the correct prop and not going WOT everywhere I often got 1,1~1,3 litres per nautical mile. It was a very heavy boat!
In fact at 30knots it would be cruising at 35litres per hour.
Then I had the 28foot custom allie boat, with an old Volva AD41 motor, a turbo diesel straight six, 190hp. It used stuff all fuel most of the time and even though the boat was close to 4 tons when fueled and all onbaord, it cruised at 15~16knots at 3800rpm and 18litres per hour.
Now I have an old Bertram 25 with a 2005 Mercuiser V8 502 MPI motor, this is a 415hp, 8.3 liter fuel injected V8. It can drink juices fast at WOT, but you not doing 36~40knots all the time, at speeds of under 25knots, it's again around the 1.2~1.4 liters per nautical mile so far and the Betrams is a bloody heavy hull.
I like the fact I don't have to reach over a massive outboard motor with a rod and can easily get a fish around the leg when it's in close.
I like the fact I can easily check and maintain the motor and don't need a rocket science degree to work on them.
I like hat my last service for motor and leg etc with a new water pump etc was under $600. Where a new 200hp outbaord would cost me more than that. in fact if I had twin 200hp 4 strokes to match the grunt I have now, I'd use more fuel and probably have a service cost for both motors together of $1000.
I don't like the massive intrusion into the deck space on the Trophy and the Bertrams, but the allie was great as the whole motor was under the deck.
but saying that the motor box makes a good casting platform and sunning deck for the family.
They do perform and handle better with the mass low down and forward of the transom, having tested a Trophy same as mine, but with a 175hp outboard on the back.
it's a bit like a front wheel vs rear wheel drive thing, each to their own and each has it's pro's and con's.
The modern fuel injected new V6's and V8's are a lot better than the old carby V8's of the past.
The new turbo diesels are derived from BMW, Toyota Landcruisers and Isuzu Utes in many case before they marinize the motors.
If I had no money issues I'd go a pair on new 180hp turbo diesels from Yanmar in a blink in a 27foot boat.
New the inboards are always going to cost a lot more than 4stroke outbaords hp for hp,
BUT the torque on the big block inboards is FAR more than the same horse powered outbaords in many cases. just a simple fact of cubic inches of combustion!
Weight wise, well a 350hp V8 Yammie outboard is not far off a new MPI V8 Mercruiser these days.
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
wide open
Posts: 444
Date Joined: 24/12/09
get which is cheaper
i would go outboard just bevause i prefer them
a inboard gives a better ride
a diesel sterndrive should give exccelent fuel consumption.
a sterndrive engine is nice and spread out like a car so no tight spaces
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
Albermarle perhaps it is,
Albermarle perhaps it is, they put the motor forward and have a jackshaft running thru the length of the boat?
Solves that problem of no one wanting to sit up the front to keep the bow down, heading into a breeze on the way home.
Snappie
Posts: 8
Date Joined: 16/04/10
ever heard of trim tabs?
ever heard of trim tabs? i've heard they are just as good as a couple of people sitting up the front
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
dead bodies are cheaper...lol
yeah, but trim tabs are bloody expensive if you want fine control, couple of bodies are cheaper...lol
:-)
Tony
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
Apparently some people still
Apparently some people still don't get jokes on the internet.
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
yip,I fell for it, we need
yip,I fell for it, we need some easy to click smilies etc, or old farts like me jump at the bait..lol
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
Not you this time Tony, more
Not you this time Tony, more snappie. I mean anyone that can afford an albermarle can afford trim tabs and doubtless knows about them.
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
lol... not if your wife
lol... not if your wife finds out the cost...lol
bodies can be cheaper then!...lol
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
big_azza
Posts: 4
Date Joined: 09/05/10
Repowering a Baron Sportsman
Gday all,
Ive just bought an old Baron Sportsman 18'6 and as the motor and leg are 1983 models (I think) I reckon i'll have to repower in the next few years. Even the local boat service place doesnt want to work on it!
After reading a lot of the posts on this website I'm leaning towards putting a brand new stern drive package as opposed to putting a pod on the back with an outboard in case it stuffs the balance of the boat up. I was wondering if I could upgrade it in stages i.e put a new stern drive in one year then a new engine a year or 2 after that or is it something that should be done all at once?I have been told it will cost about $13000 to install a complete 3L mercruiser package in perth. Also, has anybody imported engines or stern drives from the USA or heard of people who have? Did it work out much cheaper?
Thanks for the valuable info!
Regards
Aaron
MarineDoctor
Posts: 21
Date Joined: 14/04/10
Do all of it in one hit,
Do all of it in one hit, Cheaper to buy a complete package.
Cammos
Posts: 606
Date Joined: 30/06/09
Have a poke around for
Have a poke around for reconditioned Mercruisers on special. Word is they can be amazingly cheap.
stefanie
Posts: 5
Date Joined: 22/08/10
Repowering
Howdy there Big Azza.
I to have also recently purchased a 1977 model Baron Sportsman in the last 12 months, in fact looks to be the same colour as yours.
Is your hull a little faded? It looks to be in the picture. Mine was also when I got it. I spent a couple of hours and a six pack of coldies with a good grade "extra cut" marine polish from a local marine shop on it and it came up like a new boat with a nice glassy gloss finish. Just keep it out of the sun from there when not in use and it seems to last quite good. I just used a 6" rubber buff pad wheel and new buff pad from the local Bunnings for about $25 bucks all up and wacked it in the end of a power drill and it worked real well.
I did about 9 months reasearch on boats before I finally took the plunge. And I took a real chance on mine as I purcashed it from a boat yard in Kelmscott WA and I live in SA. The first time I saw the boat in real life was when it it arrived home to SA by train.
The research lead me to having a craving to try one of these Baron Sportsmans. Everyone that has had one, swear by them for tough performing in the rough stuff. Reading forums, I also learned that they like to be driven, not pussied if the going gets a little rough. I'll tell you a little story in a minute that proved all those forums to be 100% correct.
I beleive you have to watch some of the models built after the mid 80's. The popularity and production grew quite fast in the early 80's and Baron could not keep up with production vs demand, so they "Out farmed" them to be built by another boat builder. This builder skimped on resin and glass and the hulls on these later models were thin and were prone to cracking, so watch that one. 70's and real early 80's models are the real deal built in the Baron factory and tough as guts.
Now lets get down to that Horsepower issue. You didn't indicate what type of engine you currently have. Mine is a Volvo 3 litre, AQ130C, with a 280 drive. It's also reaching a few years but the engine is in very good condition and operates perfectly mechanically, (So far....touch wood). The leg I was a little bit concerned with as I don't know much about them. So I put it in for a service. Nothing major wrong thankfully, (Except for the lift motor is buggered and needs replacing), but the service did cost $900, but I saw the leg in the middle of the service and it had been pulled down into a million and one pieces and all worn parts replaced and fully refitted with new seals from top to bottom.
Although the engine works as it should, I find it a little bit under horsepowered for a 5.5 metre boat. It doesn't have a speedo, so I don't know what speeds it does, but I've been around boats since I was a wee little tacker and it's too slow at cruise. To get it cruising at what feels an adequate speed, I find it needs to rev up at around 4000-4200 rpm. That's too much for my liking to be running at constantly. It may just need a different prop pitch but I haven't got to looking at that experiment myself just yet.
My previous boat (20 years ago) was a single hull Glastron 5.5 half cab, that also must have had a 4 pot Volvo originally and still had the Volvo 270 model drive, but the person before me had replaced the 4 pot with a Holden 308 V8. Now that was also the same size boat and just as heavy if not slightly heavier and that V8 used to nail it up on the water and go like F*&k. Problem was, the original gearing still remained in the leg. The 4 pot 2.16:1 gears (I think) had an issue with engine being able to over rev at top end if you didn't watch it, but it was quick out the water and great for the ruff stuff when those ol' winds changed for the ride home.
I'm looking at upgrading mine also and looking to go back to the V8 and this time upgrade the gearing to 1.16:1 gears to suit a V8. Now I've been doing my homework once more and I have seen a web site, (I think I still have the link to it somewhere...Hopefully), that's putting out fully "Remanufactured" Crate 350 chev V8's, (Guaranteed 300hp), fully marinised and ready to drop in for $4,900. I was looking at just buying another old Holden 308 and rebuilding to new, but I'd reackon a rebuild would probably cost at least 2k (That's just parts and machining...My old man is the qualifed mechanic that cut's out all the labour costs), then it would have to be at least another 2k for all the honkin marinising gear and a few more bucks for all those unexpected parts. I think $4,900 sounds like a pretty good work around soultion for a quicker fix.
The next thing that needs change for a V8 is fitting a new point for front engine mounts as the 4 pot Volvo's are transom mounted with no front engine support at all. It's kinda of scary the first time you see a transom mount engine as the donk seemingly just hangs there in mid air. You'd have to have balls to swing a V8 like that. It would tear the transom out in 5 seconds flat.
So if your looking at buying another new 3 litre for 13k, have a bit more look around first fella. I don't think you'll be happy with the results with power to weight ratio. If you do have one of these old 270 or 280 Volvo legs on it, don't be too quick to disguard that either just becuse it's older. These old Volvo legs, kept maintained and serviced have quite a recognised history of being almost bullet proof and much better than Mercruiser. They're major downfall is the lift motor. They are only tilt, not trim on these early models. They are light weight and although will work fine for years if only used for tilt, they do not like being used to attempt to trim while in gear. It will not stay in postion even if it does lift up, instead it will just sink back down again as soon as you let go of the lift button, and it will break the gear or worm drive inside as mine has done. Sadly, mine was already like this when I got the Baron. I had the Glastron with the 270 version for over 9 years, that was all purchased second hand at an auction and never had the leg serviced or the bellows changed once. Looking back on it, that was wrong and a bit of a rough way to treat it, but it never, ever gave up...Not even once.
Now to that story I promised you above. I've had my Baron for almost 9 months and only been able to get it out a handfull of times beacuse of work. (Yes, yes...we all know that story all too well don't we)! Every trip out it has been dead calm. Just last Thursday, I got a day off from work and decided to go fish'n. The winds had been dead for 4 days leading up to and have been the same for 5 days now since last Thursday, but what did the winds do that early Thursday moring that I had a rare day off? I headed out at first light for some snapper as soon as it was just light eough to see where I was going. The swell and chop was up a little when I first left the Marina, but not that bad. I headed out about 6 clicks to a spot I wanted to try. By the time I got there the winds were up further and things were quite lumpy. I decided to give it a try for a while and judge the weather as it progressed. The forcast had still been for buggar all wind and yet it appeared nature wanted to test me on my day off....Grrrr.
I was catching piss ant baby snapper like there was no tomorrow all at a lowsy, throw back 26cm. By this time the sea had picked up that much that I couldn't even stop the anchor from dragging...It was really starting to piss me off. After 2 1/2 hours and 5 squillion annoying baby snapper, (Without even so much as one legal keeper), I decided to head back in. I was getting concerned as to how much this was going to keep blowing up. But here for the first time was also my test for these Baron Sportsmans and ability to take a bit off ruff stuff.
I got her up out the water gently becasue I had a feeling she was going to start banging quite badly with the sea like this. It was working so well I got into it a bit more and then even got game enough to give her some stick and higher speeds for short bursts, just to test it. I got the opportunity for the fisrt time to see what 9 months of research had provided with the forums all reading that early Barons have what it takes when it gets rough.
I can assure you truthfully that it totaly flawed me as to just how well it performed for a 77 model hull. It was eating it for dinner other than again a noteable concern with lack of horsepower from the little 3 litre without using a lot of revs. It certainly out shinned my Glastron in similar sea and the Glastron used to take the rough stuff well but that one had the Horsepower to compensate.
So the pennies are being saved at the momment to get a V8 into her, but that will a while off yet. Incidentaly, does anyone out there know where I might pick up a lift motor in the mean time to help me out. Mine still works but is broken inside and drops suddenly on the way down at a certain point near the bottom of travel.
Anyway Azza, keep in touch mate. We may be able to help one another along the way with info and reasearch.
Love your Baron mate. Keep her Stern drive. Don't even think about pods or outboards.
Brett.
MarineDoctor
Posts: 21
Date Joined: 14/04/10
I would only buy a mpi fuel
I would only buy a mpi fuel injected motor, they are really good on fuel, and have heaps better performance over a carby,
Dowsides to a sterndrive : More expensive to service/ Bellows and gimbal Bearings wear out/ Every 5 years manifolds and risers need replacing {aprox $2500}/ Water ciculation pump {not impeller} needs replacing every 5 or so years.
I find access a big issue with them as well, If the boat is designed for it leave it be.
Pods unless properly custom made to the hull can cause painfull problems.
Sonny
kempy
Posts: 810
Date Joined: 28/05/09
also with a mpi they are
also with a mpi they are better on fire resistance cause u cant get back fires like the carbs models
Dinkum Auto Electrical A/C & Mechanical Unit 10/16 Kent way Malaga 0438755754 Also Mobile
Open 7 days except when we are fishn For all your auto electrical needs
shammy
Posts: 231
Date Joined: 03/07/09
Stern drive for me
I repowered the 4 cyl ovlov with a v8 Merc 5L MPI with "The Boat Business", in Henderson and got a good job...... (Beware there are some "operators" in Perth who will ask for a deposit before giving you a quote.... caveat emptor)
I'm with Tony H, Heaps power/torque, economy, etc ,
Weights down low in the boat, fuel economy - .8 to 1.2 lts/NM speed dependent on a big heavy hull, 6m.
touched 43 knts the other day, and cruise at 18- 25 knts all day, as for the Ikea crowd (space savers).....; the engine cover is used as a table for making sangas, drinks, bait, seat, step, foot rest,etc , back of the boat is flat great for handling fish (when we do occassionally catch one); swim board across the back and the full transom is a great dive/ flip board at rotto or little isl, service costs $700 for full annual service.... JMHO
"Life wasn't meant to be a spectator sport"
iana
Posts: 652
Date Joined: 21/09/09
Pod on the Baron
Hi "Big-azza", I own a Baron that has a sort of a pod, this was a factory fit. Its a frame rather than a pod. I don't know if the boat performance, or handling characteristics are different from the inboard model, but it goes OK.
I like the idea of the inboard ""low weight" which equates into better stability, I dont like the loss of deck space.
One point that know one has picked up on, is if the pod is designed with an air tight bouyacy tank, this may help the boat stay afloat if one gets into trouble.
I owned a new 4 stroke Suzuki outboard, and it was magic.
If the basic trim does require changing, there are fixed weights in the boat that can be moved to fix the problem.