some good advice there Paul.

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Really did make a difference in the taste of the fish.

Paul  do you also wash your fish in fresh tap water or sea water after filleting because you can sure tell the differents there aswell. Salt water rinsing is a must along with icing your catch . JMO

RUSS

"A family that fishes together stays together"

Yeah will let you know how we go paul with the fish, as we normally don't ice either.

i always slurry my water when im on a competition or when it is possible that i will return the fish to the water. we kept a black bream alive for about 10 hours with a slurry on the swanfish. i also do it for tailor when im catching good sized ones.

I remember you said that you would do that in the original post, so thanks for the follow up! I agree! 

Colin Molloy

(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)

When i fillet my fish, i don't wash them for a day i put them stright in the fridge to let the meat set, i think this is important to the taste aswell. Then i skin and clean and cut it into small peaces ,then freeze .And no they arn't coverd in blood and crap ,if filleted properly the fillets come of clean,i do wash them of in fresh water after I skin them.

I can recommend you the industry guidelines that is used in aquaculture and pro fishing for restaurant and export quality sashimi-grade fish. (Not the crappy fish n chips stuff)
1) Spike/Iki-jimi fish immediately to reduce further stress
2) Bleed either by severing a gill raker or main artery
3) Place in ice slurry for 15-30 minutes (longer for bigger fish) to rapidly bring core temperature down
4) Once core temp has been reduced to about 1 degrees, remove from slurry and place directly in ice (not slurry)

The reason for moving from slurry to ice is as follows:
The temperature of the slurry, when mixed with saltwater, can reach -4. At this point, it is less effective storing catch than if on ice alone (shavings are best) which has a temp of just above zero. Its a little scientificy, but basically the brains in the industry have run tests with the bacteria and enzymes and found that -4 does not inhibit degradation of the flesh nearly as well as just above zero.

Also, never gut and gill a fish if it is intended to be stored fresh for a while.

Anyway, a bit of a mouthful, but I have just spend the last 2 days studying this for my course, and had to process some fish that must have been at least 3-4 days out of the water, and processed this way they look like they have only just been killed - eyes still clear, flesh white and creamy. With the difference of a few days shelf life equating to a lot of $$$ in the industry, I can only say that if there is a better method than this, it would already be implemented.

Give it a go if you're interested

washing in salt water the day of catch ,we take a clean 20 ltr bucket with us and get fresh water from out deep away from any rubbish .sometimes only fillet fish that day and as long as you keep the salt water out of the heat its still good the next day.try it you might be surprised we tried and wont go back to old ways

RUSS

"A family that fishes together stays together"

also if anyone here chrovacs there fillets if your place a small amout of salt water in the bag it saves the fillets when they are frozen

but dont dry fillets so a bit of salt water stays with the fillet so it should be the same

RUSS

"A family that fishes together stays together"

KC could you please explain why the fish should not be gutted if it is intended to be kept fresh? 

Much to the dismay of my deckies ( as it takes up fishing time) when I have one onboard, I will spike, bleed, scale, gut fish while still on the boat.  All cleaning done with sea water.  Once done, I will sit them upside down in the cooler, packing ice under and on either side of the fish.

Depending of the size of the fish, I sometimes put ice in the gut.  The water does not pool there, it drains down, out of the belly.

I normally keep my fish with the skin on, as we eat the skin as well.  I will do all filleting at home, but the fish is not rewashed in tap water.

At this stage, the most important thing to do before freezing, is to dry the fish as much as possible and to cling wrap as tight as possible to eliminate air in the packing.  If you can eliminate the air pockets, you can minimize freezer burn. 

1985 Boston Whaler Outrage 18 Johnson 140hp 4stroke

Hmmm...  intersting views about drying the fish.

Why add salt water when freezing?

1985 Boston Whaler Outrage 18 Johnson 140hp 4stroke

Not answering for Kasey, but my brother has an aquaculture degree and is always pretty firm on keeping fish whole & iced until they're processed. He seems to think that its best to leave the guts whole because the bacteria on cut flesh is worse than leaving them whole for later processing. 

Kasey, whats next? Bit of piano wire to stick up the backbone? I hear they do that with first class tuna =) 

Hey Lads, Just one small trick that a pro taught us at the Abrolhos was to ice the fish as above and then take the fillet of whole, vacuum shrink wrap with the fillet as is, then freeze. We were pulling the fish from the freezer up to 6months later and they tasted like they were fresh. There was no protein breakdown and no freezer burn. Remember to leave the skin on and the slime on the fillet helped to protect it. Have always looked after my catch but this was the best advice ever. Waz

I'm with Waz, when cryovacing I always leave skin on and put the fillets as if they were still sitting on the fish's backbone, that way if there is any freezer burn, its only the skin that gets done.

The piano wire is to short out all the electrics and stop the trembling.

1985 Boston Whaler Outrage 18 Johnson 140hp 4stroke

Alfred, like you I prefer my fish whole if they are table sized. May be that we were brought up that way ;) As till said, it is because once you cut a fish open, bacteria immediately gets a chance to get in and grow. Like our body, when we're sealed up our flesh is pretty free from bacteria. But get a cut and you get the problem of infection in a few days. The same applies to fish. This is even worse if you accidentally pierce the gut cavity or intestines etc.

I mean, this probably won't matter too much if you're going to eat it the next day or freeze it immediately, although that doesn't mean there isn't an effect. Reports say that this can cut shelf life down by as much as 5 days though in the long run. By the long run I mean about maybe 10-20-more days, which is how long fish takes to reach some markets. And its never been frozen.

This may come as a surprise (it was to me initially), but if you take for example some fish that might come from overseas or even say far up north or over east, you have harvest time, distribution time, transport time, processing time and then time sitting in the shops, a week out of water fresh not frozen begins to seem more realistic. The fact that some of these fish still come with clear eyes, red gills, a week after being killed and have yet to go into rigor mortis is only due to the amount of care and research put into their harvest and processing. Alot of the better quality and condition ones come more from aquaculture, where instead of being stressed at the end of a line and then flopped onto a deck, some of these are actually killed by first being anaesthesized and then iki-jimied so theres no lactic build up in the flesh whatsoever. Turns out beautiful.

Sometimes you actually do learn stuff at uni

Till, I haven't needed to carry piano wire around me yet because I can't seem to catch too many 15kg+ tuna unfortunately..

Does your brother still work in aquaculture? Awesome work environment. Saw some pink snapper in tank and they just sit there finning on the surface and swim up to you... cute.

Hmmmm......  Interesting reading.  Must admit that I have not kept a fish for sashimi more then 6 days.   This might be a way to keep a fish fresh for a little longer.

What do they say in school about freezing?  Any particular prep? 

1985 Boston Whaler Outrage 18 Johnson 140hp 4stroke

Yeah, I can't seem to turn up any of those fat Tuna from the beach either, I guess that means I can leave the piano wire at home awhile longer =)

My brother no longer works in Aquaculture, but he still likes his fishing. He did a lot of work up north on Pearl farms, Gove/NT and Whyndham/WA IIRC.

That made excellent informative reading - especially the 'not gutting' bit! Makes absolute sense though!

Just one question - how do you bleed a fish without compromising the bacteria entry?  

Colin Molloy

(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)

Good to hear Paul!

I agree, cryovac machines are great and the fillets should be dried from what i've experienced. I dont store fish for long periods anymore (keep what i can eat for a short time period) so therefore i fillet it down ready to go.

As for washing the fillets i dont anymore. I fillet my fish and i dont use any tap water or saltwater water.....el -natural. I also find the flesh not only tastes better but it store's better also!

It's spun out to see the commercial tuna guys go ie coring, run the wire and puncture both side (bleeding)Very effective and they can demand the $$$ for such fish!

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Colin, I'm not sure about that. But that may be a reason why when we open up a vein for bleeding, its only a small incision in the gills area that we do not typically eat.

If perhaps you are thinking about the issue of saltwater and bacteria entering the veins and travelling up and around... I don't know either but I can only imagine if you cut yourself in water, the water does not then become pumped around your body thus spreading the bacteria. It seems to me to be localised around the exposed flesh area. I can't say more because at this point I'm only guessing.

Also, if any of you have dogs... don't chuck the guts away. It gives their coats a beautiful shine!

... so is it not a good idea to just grab that little connecting bit underneath the gills... connecting the head and the body (help - what's it called?).... and just cutting that? Letting it bleed? - should I just be cutting one of the Gill Rakers?

I'll often just cut that and then break their neck...

After working in the charter fishin and fish monger industries we found the best way is to brain spike and then make an insission just behind the gill rakers to bleed, making sure not to damage the other internal organs, after bleadin out in an ice slurry we soldier stake them, which means to stake the fish upright so the gut juices stay in the the gut cavity and not tarnish the flesh. then ice. Havnt had a problem keeping fish whole for 7 days.

Pretty interesting info here guys. Can I ask tho....what exactly are the gill rakers.

Are you talking about the gills??

Thats right dpost80. This way it takes is 3 small incisions.

One in the temple of the fish straight to the brain (iki jimi), one through the gills each side and slip into a slurry. sweet and easy, no mess, no fish flopping, no need to break or man handle or expose any flesh. Takes seconds. When you iki them their mouths will gape open momentarily, fins flash, and then everything relaxes - deep sleep. If you do it all right, up to the slurry and then stored on ice stages, you can be filleting days later and your fish isn't even stiff (rigor mortis).

Sorry jody, to be more precise, if you lift the piece of bone covering the gills (the operculum), the part you cut through is the white gill arch, that hold the red gill filaments. For your convenience: http://www.dfw.state.or.us/mrp/salmon/FishID/Gill_Arch.jpg

So cut at one point along that arch

D_Doush is on the money there. Also, I think you're describing another way to bleed them, which is opening the artery behind the gill rakers itself (not through the gills), which is my preferred way for bigger fish because the arch of big fish can be quite tough to sever. I showed this to mark and scottnofish and it really is easy and blood literally gurgles out.... one poke with a fillet knife and thats it. but you need to know what to aim for, as theres guts and organs in there too. Maybe I can do a diagram.

Anyway, that's how they came up with the nickname 'boga slice' ;)

Alot of the information can be found here:
http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/004/X2590E/x2590e10.htm#TopOfPage

There's a decent diagram of how to iki-jimi there, but really I still had no idea until someone came along and showed me. If you care to have a look at whole, quality fish at the markets, most of them should come with a tiny hole to one side of their heads - the pros know exactly where to poke and its just in-out and the jobs done effectively.

To help, I can describe what you're looking for is the 'temple' of a fish, and thats where you're piercing through. Like our temples, to figure out where it is initially, you can feel around above and slightly behind the eye and theres a soft depression. Its roughly at the X spot on the diagram, but better to just run your finger along at the start so you know where it is, rather than turning your fish's head into a pincushion (I know I've done that before).

Now, the arrow in the figure 64 a is a bit misleading, as it suggests you pierce through there, but then angle the knife backwards towards the rear of the fish. Actually you are aiming in the opposite direction, to pierce the brain which is located more or less behind the eye. To be fair, its stated "The position of spiking is diagonal and about 2 cm behind the eye". well, there you go

Yeah mate thats what i mean the gills. its just carefully slicing the artery that feeds the gills. you know when u hit the right spot!

Deckhand and member of the Gotone Woodvale team

I tried to find a diagram but couldnt. Its too hard to describe where that artery is, but I'm happy to show anyone if I get the chance or find a good picture.

Anyway, its the same as severing the gill arch - no biggie.

Lol on turning it into a pincushion KC! My precious otoliths keep getting smashed! Yes, I have noticed that the iki spot tends to be different with certain fish, as a result of different shaped heads, eg robinson vs rankin vs sea perch.

Might do some filming of it on the weekend, if we catch fish that is... ;) 

I have to say, I couldn't taste the difference. And I had a piece of dhufish iced and not iced.

I am sitting here eating dhuie as we speak. And i think the fish has a totaly differant taste. my daughter Amy just went for seconds a said this tastes really good. we cooked it in light breadcrumbs and olive oil very nice..

Hmm, weird hey.

We did it in breadcrumbs and threw it on the pan with hot oil.

And both fillets tasted the same.

Thats because i gave you the crap stuff and keeped the good for myself

if i cryovac tailor fillets, leave them in the fridge for a week, then transfer them to the freezer will they be ok?

not able to take a freezer up north so will be transporting everything at 3-4 degrees.

not sure if same for fish, but with meat, it can be cryovac and left in fridge for up to 3 months without freezing.....

cheers Jes

"I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out."

But why would anyone freeze tailor anyway :P