Ally welding...how & what?
Submitted by Seafari on Mon, 2017-10-30 10:31
Hey Guys and Gals,
I'd like to learn how to weld ally. Nothing too serious to start out with, maybe welding up an ally bait board and some other accessories but with the long term goal of welding together my own ally boat from one of those kits....maybe.
I've done the YouTube "thing" and spoken to the guys at a few local tool shops who sell welders. The machine that looks best value is the Gigaweld 3 in 1 with a few extras like the spool feed on the gun etc.
I'm wanting the welds to be neat, strong and not too difficult so if it means buying a slightly better than the cheapest machone available then I'd be happy to spend the extra.
Anyone out there got some good advice?
Thanks
sea-kem
Posts: 14851
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Make sure all your material
Make sure all your material is clean before welding. You will go through tips like no tomorrow so have a good supply. Setting your amps is the crucial thing as ali/mig process is notorious for cold lap. Make sure you have good ventilation and cover up,gloves jaket etc.
Love the West!
Seafari
Posts: 116
Date Joined: 17/03/12
Thanks, I was wondering if
Thanks, I was wondering if the flash from ally welding was a harsh as arc welding. I learnt the hard way welding up a trailer wearing shorts and sitting on my haunches for a few hours. The "sun burn" on the inside of my legs was....OUCH!!! The other advice I was given is to invest in a very good quality auto darkening welding shield.
I'd be keen to know if boat builders use TIG or MIG welders?
sea-kem
Posts: 14851
Date Joined: 30/11/09
They use both mate, TIG is a
They use both mate, TIG is a neater process but more time consuming. MIG you can really lay it down quick but the end result is not as aesthetic.
Love the West!
Seafari
Posts: 116
Date Joined: 17/03/12
Thanks
Thanks mate. For my purposes all my research is leaning towards MIG. I suppose if my welds look really shitty a grinder can be used to neaten things up. I'm looking at a Gigweld 3 in 1 machine and then getting the optional hand piece & spool for the ally wire as opposed to feeding from the machine. Apparently the ally wire is very soft so much easier if the feed is kept to the shortest possible run.
sea-kem
Posts: 14851
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Yeah a push pull system is a
Yeah a push pull system is a must or you'll forever be pulling out birds nests at your wire feeder. Plenty of wire speed required too so be aware it's a very fast process.
Love the West!
ranmar850
Posts: 2702
Date Joined: 12/08/12
Cleanliness is king
Like any form of wire welding, amps and feed rate have to be right. I haven't actually done a lot myself, some, but iI have spent countless hours in the bilge of ali crayboats getting them welded up. And you can immediately hear that spit and crackle if there is the tiniest bit of salt in there. Seems to work its way in, often considerable gouging is required to get it out. get everything set up right and it's the easiest stuff to get a nice looking weld on.
Seafari
Posts: 116
Date Joined: 17/03/12
Thanks
Thanks, I'm sure this looks a lot easier than it really is but I can stick weld reasonably well and always wanted to learn how to MIG weld. Now to find someone with scrap ally so that I can practice, practice, practice.
still trying
Posts: 1020
Date Joined: 27/06/17
you will find the biggest
you will find the biggest difference is your wire and travel speeds an ali run is probably double the speed of a mild steel maybe even more in 3 mm material. Easier to learn on say 6 mm
rather be fishing
Swompa
Posts: 3781
Date Joined: 14/10/12
Aluminium welding has been,
Aluminium welding has been, in my experience, the best way to blow holes in a perfectly good boat.
scano
Posts: 1246
Date Joined: 31/05/07
have a look at the north metro tafe website
I just recently did a short course (night school) of ali & stainless tig welding. It went for about 5 weeks after hours, and gave a good basic rundown on the principles of tig welding.
The course included all materials, welding machines, Gas ect. and was about $350 all up. Really worthwhile if you want to get hands on with welding ali and stainless! I have since bought DC tig welder and good helmet ect for the purpose of making some small project goods out of stainless.
an old guy by the name of Tim was the instructor for the course I did at Midland. A worthwile exercise if you are into making things yourself and anything fishing related..scano
sea-kem
Posts: 14851
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Love the West!
dano83
Posts: 790
Date Joined: 25/05/12
Haha haven't seen that one
Haha haven't seen that one for ages !
Seafari
Posts: 116
Date Joined: 17/03/12
Thanks Scano
I really should look into doing a course. I'm wanting to pull the trigger on a machine but want to make sure that it's the right one. I don't mind spending on the right one, just don't want to buy the wrong one and kand up spending twice. Maybe the course will help me understand the diffes between AC amd AC/DC machines and why one would need one and not the other etc.
sea-kem
Posts: 14851
Date Joined: 30/11/09
DC for TIG welding Stainless
DC for TIG welding Stainless is the go as it's a more stable continuous arc . AC for ali as the alternating current blasts the surface oxide off.
Love the West!
gruntre69
Posts: 533
Date Joined: 15/10/16
Just make sure you get a
Just make sure you get a machine with a Euro style handle. Easily interchange, replaced or upgraded. I just had a hassle with a little MIG that I own because the handle and hose was not Euro stlye. I ended getting a new liner into it but it was a major PITA. I don't know much about Ali and haver only tried it a couple of times with a TIG. I believe the multipurpose machines a re a compromise in same way to accomplish more goals...
I personally would buy a TIG which is the most virsatile machine and can do fine work or bigger jobs but more slowly. I'm not planning to build a boat though. I'd think hard about the real prospect of the build. It might be best to get a TIG and if you ever really want to do the self build, just add a MIG into the cost which still wouldn't be expensive compared to ordering a new boat...
Marine trimmer NOR (available for clears, tops, carpet, upholstery, custom equipment covers)
scottnofish
Posts: 1617
Date Joined: 28/08/07
You want either an acdc tg or a pulse mig for the best ali welds
Straight ac will still.leave your welds black acdc will clean the welds as u go .pulse mig is way better than standard mig as there is less heat input so it dosnt blow holes as easy and the welds will be cleaner .my choice would be a kempi mastertig 2300 acdc.i repair welders for a living and i can tell u now stay away from the cheap lincoln cig weld and wia crap for acdc tigs my workshop is full of them
Shark1
Posts: 1084
Date Joined: 21/05/12
theres are some amazing new
theres are some amazing new machines
i have some 5 different arc tig and migs u can come have a look at if u want
some high frequency some not
water cooled tig some not etc
for ali watercooled tig is the way to go imho for ali mig u really want a spool gun
high frequency is only if u dont wanna scratch for arc do u really wanna spend the $
pm sent
scottnofish
Posts: 1617
Date Joined: 28/08/07
Who do you work for
Shark1
Shark1
Posts: 1084
Date Joined: 21/05/12
pm sent
pm sent
travis89
Posts: 57
Date Joined: 27/12/14
tig
i have a cig 225 mig welder set up for ally
no push pull gun or spool gun. i use a teflon liner and a short 3m twico gun
this is the only way to mig ally withought spending the $$$$ on push pull guns, its ok buuut
you will spend more time pissing around with keeping your cable strait and playing with settings than actually practicing welding!
you will learn more practicing tig than a with dumb mig!
if you have the cash get one of those millers that are multi tasking, arc mig and tig. then when you want to get a mig set up later you can
also i can get you some fairly clean, low grade ally scrap used for signage that you can practice with
good luck!