I am sure the article is twisting the truth a fair bit. Not that I am a welder, but that rate would be based on working 52 weeks per year with no break.

Resource chiefs are warning of an astronomical wages blowout in the booming liquefied natural gas sector with some skilled fly-in fly-out workers asking for well over $400,000 a year for six months work.

( thats allowing for weeks off, so six months time at work)

It is understood the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union is demanding $425,000 for welders on one WA offshore project for 28 weeks work. The same workers were paid $300,000 for 30 weeks' work on other projects two years ago.

Unions claim the high wages compensate workers for tough conditions but companies say they are near breaking point.

in simple speak thats a  Greenfields compensation agreement rates for 28 weeks work, ie 2352 hrs work per year, or $187.70 per hour rate!!! YES THATS TRUE. he will work two weeks on, then two weeks off unpaid, for 28 weeks paid work per year...

Woodside Petroleum chief executive Don Voelte said fly-in fly-out workers deserved "top-line" pay for enduring heat and humidity in remote areas and working 12-hour shifts for extended periods away from their families and homes.

"But there's a point between top-line, fantastic wages and over-the-top, just outrageous wages," he said.

Mr Voelte said a 36 per cent increase in maritime wages from the start of Woodside's Pluto project in August 2007 suggested the system was broken. He said baseline wages struck by Woodside for the project, of between $130,000 and $190,000 for lesser-skilled onshore workers, served as an example of fair wages.

now to put that into prospective an Oil & Gas Marine Lead Geologist gets about $145,000 per year plus some benefits as an employee! See Ambit Recruit for normal rates...

http://www.ambitengineering.com.au/salary-index/

the thing is once a Unions agreed rate is entered into in a Greenfields contract, then the extras drive a basic hourly rate from around $80 per hour to double that figure with all the add on’s they specify, ie First Aid certificate allowance, tool allowance, trade certification allowance, work away from home allowance, off shore facilities allowance etc...

a fair rate for skilled qualified workers should be between $50 ~90 per hour total pay based on a 12 hrs day, on a 14 on 7 off cycle.

This gives 19days X 12hr per day X $90 = $20,520 per four week ( roughly a month cycle, allowing for 2 RDO days off at the camp in the normal work swing)

These guys are going for double that!!! And that’s why you see a few guys rolling in new toys / houses / boats / cars /woman…etc these days ( and a few get these massive rates, but it blows the whole industry out of kilter when it happens)

Yeah but what kind of welders are we talking about. If they are coded pipe welders then or underwater welders then that's fair dough because that is the elite of welding. I'd find it very hard to believe that a second or even a first class welder would earn that type of money. I'm coded myself for offshore lifted equipment and charge accordingly and I know I wouldn't be much better off going north and putting up with the heat long days etc. But I do agree there is greed in the industry even with the big fabricators down here that are all sooking now that they have priced themselves out of work. It's actually cheaper to get whole jobs fabricated in China,India and have it shipped over.

Get over it Tony......

somebody please tell them they are welders.........they arent worth a quarter that imo

im a welder  yes i would take 400k no worries

but am i worth that much? its not a easy job up north in the heat burning rods a 3000deg

and rember this is for a fully coded welder not some joe off the steet, welding to high codes is a very high skill

if you think its easy go do a code test

if thats the pay thats the pay the emplyees dont choose the rates

so long as the demand is there then things will go the way they are IMO. We have a very limited population to play with and huge resources to harvest. Life up there from all reports is pretty ordinary with communities struggling with transient populations and charging exorbitant rates for accomadation etc. Cleaners up there from all reports earn a whole heap more than I ever will in a management position in the Perth region.

Stilly, please... welding is a skilled trade as are many others that contribute to the growing wealth of these companies. Heaven knows what skills you need to weld under water. Good luck to them. The mining companies (IMO) would never consider paying what they do if they were not making huge bucks themselves.

we have no work down here, the unions are shitting in there own nest. Most union bosses are commo's and that is on show with these outrages claims.

imo not many people are worth that money for 6 months wage that is a joke

Ha ha you'd have to put pollies under that heading.

 charge out $400 but the welder will only get the $200, thats 100% mark up which is norm.

 I say good luck to em but the construction industry is making it hard for the average jo thats for sure.

 Shell has already sent the fabrication offshore so the unions will try get what they can for the workers on construction, local content my ass they will proberly get out of this next.

good old barnett has done a good job with this one, f..king clone.

i would imagine most pollies wouldnt be on that for half a years wage

ok some info for you before you go off at me.

1, I know what a coded welder is and use train the safety for welding / cutting and grinding under ground and on chemical plants for BOC & Air Products. So I know a thing ro two about welding.

2, these are not high risk under water welders, they exotic alloy and pressure vessel coded welders.

3, do you know how much project work will not be going ahead due to high union demands. Talk about killing the golden goose!

4, why should I get over it, this is my work every day, engineering plants both oil, gas, chemical and mineral is what I do for a living.

, I don't doubt the skills of these high skilled welders, they among an elite group of tradies, but the knock down effect on the industry is others baying under them for huge wages as well. Good coded welders outside Australia don't get that kind of money, not even those on the rigs in Saudi or Africa or in the Alskan sea rigs.

well if I don't point these things out, then every does not know what goes on up north. Many are not aware of the power of unions on sites once they get a foot hold. All fair for a fair go, but when is a fair go moving towards greed?

JMO

it's widely known that the PM is only on around $350000pa.

For the shit they have to put up with and the scrutiney on their lives and family that's probaly fair enough.

Big company CEO's are on 10 times that.

why is a welder earning more than the pollies? a welder is as common as a F@$#%N GREASEMONKEY!

What has any of this to do with fishing?

What value does it hold in this forum apart from dividing the community?

The fact is most overheads, such as insurance, safety etc exceed the workers wage which no one says jack about which is included in the compenent.

US workers dont pay tax until they earn about $35000. If you don't like it Tony, go move to America, America is economically rooted and subsidise theyre companies to get the work.

Your a pole smoker Tony because you haven't a clue about the US tax system which enables them lower wages. The only reason the yanks are competitive is because the Obama printed 4 trillion dollars. The US is in deep shit.

Most people are over your piffle Tony, don't expect a reply..

Its only greed when its a welder, when its an engineer its 'supply and demand'

Your a twat Tony, you haven't a clue.

i go fishing to forget all that crap!

name the last gas plant / rig that was actually made here in WA or even Australia, particularly woodside who have such a big presence here in WA. We pour a good concrete slab here though......

We dont make anything here, thats been evident for at least the last 15 years. You'd probably have to go back as far as NRA, GWA and train 1&2: the rest have been made overseas now for some time and shipped over here in pieces.

12 or 13 years ago I worked on woodsides latest and greatest FPSO (northern endeavour) in a singapore shipyard, so its not exactly a new phenomenom. 

Tomorrow I am heading to a shipyard in Indonesia to work on some equipment installed in modules destined for a platform in Bass Strait.

North Rankin B platform is coming out of Korea and Indonesia, Pluto was made in indonesia and shipped over in bits. Train 3, 4, 5 and the stab 6 all the same - a big mechano set from O/S. All we do at this end is put together a jigsaw and rectify any mistakes and stuff a bit of installation around the pipes. Christ, even the company overseeing the last sets of projects (train 5, satb 6, pluto) on behalf of woodside are brithish (foster wheeler) - they fifo engineers from england.

Hence the issue, all the workers are contractors not employees, and as such charge accordingly given the unknown job continuity / security (well there is none is there? its the life of a "project"). And given they are contractors, there is someone "renting" out these workers and skimming probably 50% of the charge out rate - so to say welders get $400k is a bit misleading, they probably see $200k of it which for a coded welder working in bum f**k nowhere away from their families in generally hot arid conditions is quite reasonable given workers here in Perth on Fiona Stanley are taking home ~$120k base pay. If Woodside hired their own coded welders as employees, then they wouldn't be hitting up contractors now would they? So why wouldn't companies charge accordingly for a scarce commodity doing the piece-meal work while the majority gets done O/S?

Summed up nicely Huggy B

given workers here in Perth on Fiona Stanley are taking home ~$120k base pay.

Be careful with that one too Huggy, theres a lot of bulldust floating around. Its a very generalised statement which leads speculation on other things.

Some people will only be employed for very short periods. Its is also important that gross revenue for a contractor is not their take home pay quite the contrary.

Australias OHS costs on a contract would probably exceed Chinas labour bill, its not apples with apples

I work there and so does my employee. I know the base rates etc as thats the minimum I have to pay my guy. he gets more than the minimum, but I know what the lowest paid worker (labourer) is on (including allowances etc its ~$38/h). They generally work a 45 - 50 hour week (with 4 or 5 hours on a saturday): the maths doesn't lie. That doesn't take into account their redundancy (accrues at $109 a week off the top of my head) which is paid as a cash lump sum at the end of their employment.

I will clarify though, "take home ~$120k" is before tax, not after - sorry if that was misleading. looks that way now that i have re-read it.

now they can afford a 1 bedder in east perth.

maybe one day they'll own 5 acres for the horses and a bertram. imagine that. 

but I know what the lowest paid worker (labourer) is on (including allowances etc its ~$38/h). They generally work a 45 - 50 hour week (with 4 or 5 hours on a saturday): the maths doesn't lie.

Ok, heres the problem with stating quite reasonable given workers here in Perth on Fiona Stanley are taking home ~$120k base pay.

Many people especially the 37.5 hour workers automatically assume the work 37.5 hours per week for $120 grand.

To be fair, people with an agenda do bandy poor information around with gay abandon

I know some engineers on $700000 a year, good on em...
But engineers are speshel, reeeal speshel..

I know one company outsourced their engineers just prior to things getting busy, what used to be a the wave of a finger 5 minute discussion turned into a $500 p/h consultation fee.

Hence the company went broke.

Nooooice..

i'm an engineer and am speshal. not on $700k though... tell me where they work.

If  employer & recrutment agencies, are constantly ringing to see if you are available then you can call it greed but I will take the highest offer and/ or the offer of good companies that i have worked for.

Specialists in their fields/trade are getting this sort of money if you like it or not.

It is called supply and demand!

CEO's like Don Voelte and Mr Walsh with their paypacket makes a coded welders $400K renumination packet look like their $pare chance.

Besides Australian voters have voted the Unions into power, so suck it up!

Employers (in the construction, minning industry) have unwillingly created this transient workforce by hiring/laying off/rehiring as needed.

I am an engineer also and it has always been the case that the boys get paid more than myself. The reason for this Tony is because the Managers know they can skimp on us as we are not united like the boys in blue. Instead of whinging Tony we should be sticking together and ensure we keep as much as possible in this state. I can tell you the resource companies can aford it.

Coming from someone that has worked on the decks of construction rigs offshore, as well as having worked as a petro engineer both offshore and onshore, I can tell you with no qualms, that in Australian waters EVERONE offshore in the construction game is paid quite handsomly, people that tell you otherwise are full of the preverbial.

However people that sit here and complain about it should get off their arses and go and see what you put up with. Here is the tip of the iceburg:

Firstly - you do not get away, no matter what you do you live on a boat with the same people day in and day out, you work with them, sleep with them, eat with them...you do everything in their pockets...might sound fine but after 4 weeks it is really hard. (2 on 2 off was RARE last year when I left the offshore game)

Secondly - you do not know where or when your next job is going to start...there is none of the job secuirty people in Perth (or even the mines) have, most jobs are short - 6 months or so and once one is over you have to go look for the other, I know people that have only had 3 months work a year offshore. No job security gets you more pay.

Third - YOUR AWAY...no beers after work no talking to your family - NO NOTHING. Try it for a week and see how you feel, next try it for a month.

Forth - they say you work 12 hours a day, it is a load of crap, more than half the time offshore in the office I would work 14 to 16 hours on the deck you work a solid 14

Fifth - Most people dont see a solid days work in their lives, the Boys in the construction crews offshore work hard. Harder then most I have seen anywhere onshore.

Lastly - It is bloody dangerous, I have seen several accidents offshore and been in 1 or 2 (West Africa) myself.

Personally I am much happier with the VERY small portion of the money from my fuel that goes to the guys that do the installation of the rigs then I am the very high portion that geos to the australian government in taxes.

Seriously if you think your so hard done by living at home in perth then get off your tail and go do some work away and see how easy it really is. For mine it wasnt worth the money...I have 2 kids growing up, the first one I was home for all of 3 months of his first year...worth it? No

Ray

Spot on Ray. I was talking to one of my Halliburton clients yesterday and he said working offshore is basically a paid prison sentence. I also worked in Panawonica for six weeks once never again in that shitting oppressive heat. If you can get the big bucks then good on ya.

I think Tony's point is that huge wages pushes up the general cost of living. Maybe not immediately but over time, wages drives cost of living. Simple. SO a few will get rewarded but the rest will get shafted..

I get it.

But if we think about the fact that we now have a global market, we buy products over seas, we don't see the need to support local business then don't be alarmed when the business end of town just does the exact same thing. They'll import the commodity from overseas as well..

I believe that Aussie workers are better than imported labour but soon business simply won't have a choice.

Back to the old cake story, can't have it and eat it too. JMHO  

Not a dig just a observation.

Sadly now my wife wants me to go get a welding ticket