Bilge pump switching.
Submitted by iana on Thu, 2014-03-13 17:51
Just after opinions re wiring the bilge pumps for a trailer-boat. Off the shelf switch panels have "manual-off-auto". My thoughts are that it should be auto always on and manual override, I.e. the pumps are wired so that they are always on via the float switch, but the float switch can be over ridden either by a switch or via a normally on relay. Off course the master battery switch turns off everything.
Now a boat which has a mooring and stays on the water would be different.
It is that the manual-off-auto system could lead to the bilge pumps being off and unnoticed.
Jason P
Posts: 521
Date Joined: 16/02/13
Mine has the auto float
Mine has the auto float switch hard wired on, with a manual override. Would agree safest option.
Really only use the override as a test. (Or if the switch float happened to fail)
DM306
iana
Posts: 652
Date Joined: 21/09/09
Thanks and agree.
At present my bilge pump is hard wired in via the float switch. Just I have a wiring job to do and thought I might change the bilge pump set up. Now to test I lift the floor panel and raise the float switch to switch it on, then I know both the switch and pump are OK.
Rob H
Posts: 5798
Date Joined: 18/01/12
the danger of a full auto
the danger of a full auto permanent wired system (my boat has one also) that doesnt have a high level alarm-is that you wont know you have a problem until the bilge pump is overwhelmed and its too late.
The pump keeps cutting in until either the battery is flat or it cant keep up.
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iana
Posts: 652
Date Joined: 21/09/09
Okay!
How would you design the bilge pump system?. Indication the pump is running, high level alarm.
Just again shows the importance of having fully charged, good condition batteries and plenty of excess capacity.
Rob H
Posts: 5798
Date Joined: 18/01/12
smaller commercial vessels
smaller commercial vessels have a similar setup to what is in both our boats but with a second float just above the pump float which alarms as soon as the bilge pump is overwhelmed rather than when you notice that the boat is wallowing.
You can buy a fairly simple panel incorporating these but they are abit industrial looking.
http://bla.com.au/default/bilge-pump-switch-panel-with-alarm.html?___SID=U
This one has an alarm to tell you if the pump fails but I suspect this is worded wrong and maybe means if it hits high level.
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sstevee
Posts: 472
Date Joined: 15/11/11
As rob said there should be a
As rob said there should be a second set of normally open contacts on a bilge pump which has a high level float. These will only close when the high level float rises and can be used to supply power to almost anything (relay, indication light, alarm, etc..)
the switch panel in the link looks as though it would run an indication light for when the pump is physically running, a light to indicate there's power at the switch, and a light to indicate a fault/high level.
If your bilge pump does have a high level and second set of contacts and your handy you could probably fab up something yourself with an indication light and alarm
Cheers
Steve
Paul H
Posts: 2104
Date Joined: 18/01/07
How bilges are wired depends
How bilges are wired depends on how you use it (ie trailered or moored) trailered boats are easier in that there is always someone to operate them manually if required.
If moored the bilge should be hard wired direct to the battery that way you can switch off the battery switch reducing any drainage from the battery and still have the bilge kick in as water comes on board. Also some sort of alarm etc. as Rob mentions.
This all depends on wether there is someone present to hear the alarm and dependant on the state of the batteries having enough charge to run the bilge/s. Other factor is the ability of the bilge capacity to pump quicker than incoming water (some boats set up a second bilge at a slightly higher level so if water raises the second bilge kicks in.
If any of these factors are lacking then its only a matter of time until the water level reaches the tipping point (scuppers etc.). and the boat sinks. Most sinking's (on moorings) occur due to either bilge failure (including inadequate rated bilge) or battery becoming flat.
Also want to make sure any debris (including wiring etc) cannot be moved by water surge so as to jam the float switch up and flatten your battery etc. Best mounted with the float switch pointing backward or towards the wall/transom etc. so water surge can't break the float switch.
Off - off, manual - on/overriding float switch, auto - operating as per float switch.
Cheers
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petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
not having a go but
the terminology " hard wired " what that means is that the electrical device being supplied is not protected by fuses or circuit breakers , the only on shore equipment that is allowed to be "hard wired" is a fire pump I don't know of any of the vessels I worked on that had anything "hard wired" on them except the fire fighting pumps and the bilge pumps
Rob H
Posts: 5798
Date Joined: 18/01/12
hard wired is generally
hard wired is generally understood to be wired into circuit not via a plug socket.
In this case it refers to bypassing the isolation switch, but still is fused.
Not ideal to me though my boat has been set up this way also.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
not having a go rob
sorry mate not having a crack just saying the terminology needs to correct personaly my bilge pump is hard wired and not protected I want it to run to burn out if I ever need it
Rob H
Posts: 5798
Date Joined: 18/01/12
problem with that Pete, is it
problem with that Pete, is it wont "run til it burns out" when its pumping water no matter how long it is pumping if correctly fused.
It will only "run til it burns out" if the float switch is jammed and pumping dry or something has jammed the pump.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
iana
Posts: 652
Date Joined: 21/09/09
OK getting back to 6m trailer boat!
OK getting back to 6m trailer boat! instead of a 40m trawler.
Indication the bilge pump is running, look left or right aft and see a stream of water.
Indication the pump is unable to cope, you're getting wet feet.
It would seem the basic essentials are as described by Jason P.
The more there is, the more there is to go wrong.
iana
Posts: 652
Date Joined: 21/09/09
Can't see the wood for the trees.
Been thinking a bit further and it seems that we are all over looking the crucial point here.
Whether we have bilge pumps (hard wired or not) and all the other paraphernalia, the essential element is that the boat crew are alerted that there is excess water (more than normal) in the bilge.
Once we know that, we can address the problem, put in the bungs, start bailing etc. Tackling the situation early rather than later when its too late could save the day.
Therefore an extra float switch sending out an audible and or visual warning is probably the most important., even before installing bilge pumps, remember a frightened deckie and a bucket is the best bilge pump.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8669
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Alarm
Stick an alarm instead of a warining light in the circuit so that it goes off when the pump is operating and a switch to isolate the alarm if needed.
Rob H
Posts: 5798
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Think that was written about
Think that was written about 10 posts back iana!
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.