Construction and Mining
I'm sure a fair few FW members work either in the construction or mining industries. Interested to hear from everyone if you agree/disagree with the massive increase in WA over the last ten odd years? Alot of multi national companies extracting our resources and the profits disappear overseas. FIFO workers putting pressure on local fishing, anti social behaviour. Ktown has a big influcts of workers, some FIFO others move into town for a few years then take off with a bag full of coin. These companies do invest a lot of money into our local communities and local industry (Australia wide). This will happen in Broome in a couple of years.
What will happen when our natural resources run out? (might not be in my life time) or like Ravensthorpe just pull out because not enough profit. The towns that boomed for many years will crash and a lot of people will be left with a debt or no work
I work in the construction industry and closed my small business down to do so (housing industry went down hill).
Old fishermen never die they just smell that way.
scotto
Posts: 2472
Date Joined: 21/04/08
Im feeling your pain wes.
Im a site manager for a major west australian commercial/residential construction company, and one of the biggest problems I am experiencing in the industry is the lack of quality and skill in labour and trades getting into the industry.
the mining boom has sucked up most of the qualified guys, is sucking up a heap of guys with any experience, and is leaving the shite to filter into the industry here.
without prejudice to certain races, many of the "qualified trades" we are now forced to use, are not qualified (and sometimes not even experienced), and simply do not cut the mustard. what we are left with a far less superior product at the end of the job.
I also reckon it was mega short sighted of our government to fast-track residencies aplications, and allow 457 visas and the like, to urgently assist the boom. a better long term solution for australia and our economy, would have been more or greater baby bonus's and the like, to try and keep some quality and safety in our resources industres.
AlwaysFishin
Posts: 644
Date Joined: 13/11/11
Mining is the way to go.
I'm a qualified gyprocker with 15 years experience, originally from Victoria, I've been in Perth for 2 years. My argument for this issue is on the other side of the coin. Why would anyone want to work for miserable, tightass bosses who are slavedrivers and always breathing down your neck, paying subcontractor rates and always whinging about it, when I can do FIFO for better money, better conditions and on wages? No worrying about if I have any work next week, no worrying about the tax man and super is paid as well. I've only been FIFO for 4 months, but in no way can I see myself wanting to get back into constuction in Perth anytime soon. So that's why you end up with sub-standard tradesman, because the decent tradies are sick of putting up with all the bullshit and realized FIFO is the way to go. The only ones who are left to do the job is the shifty guys who have no experience, qualifications or work ethics and will work for peanuts.
I do understand that FIFO brings about a certain stereotyping, with a "work hard, play hard attitude" but I believe there is only a small percentage of guys that live by that. Most people are up here to get themselves ahead in life, not piss it all up against the wall.
And let's face it, the mining industry is keeping Australia afloat. We are a major player in the world market. If it wasn't for mining in Australia, we wouldn't be where we are at the moment in terms of the GFC, employment rates, and the AUD wouldn't be buying over 1 USD.. And without miners and their money, the construction industry would be completely screwed, not just partially.
allrounder
Posts: 1853
Date Joined: 10/11/08
The bigger issue is when all the baby boomers
pull up stumps and start travelling the country in thier caravans.One: its going to leave a dirting big hole in the trades Number two and more importantly they will clog up the road to the north while i am trying to tow my boat up.
So tell me have you got your info from years on the water or hours on the internet?
sea-kem
Posts: 15030
Date Joined: 30/11/09
I remember the last boom and
I remember the last boom and all the cowboys it brought out of the woodwork. I have one near my w/shop who is fabricating safety screens for mining sector and the state of the work he is putting is abolutely laughable.My mate who is a brickie of 30 yrs reckons it's the same in his game as well. The govt should have kept the apprentice programme going through the late 90's early 2000's but didn't so the consequnces are showing through. Any apprentice hired now has to do a weeks course before actual TAFE to show they can even add up. The guy who signed my apprentice up said during the last boom anyone was being hired into the trade and a lot of them were lacking basic maths skills etc. So I guess anyone worth their salt is heading north. I've actually just been given a gig ofshore installing the work I fabricate because of the shortage of coded welders my client can get their hands on. So any of you guys looking for work in the mining and oil and gas sector should be doing night courses etc or pre app courses to get a foot in the door, start at the bottom and work your way up. My old foreman used to say "There's nothing to compete with out there if you show some nous and interest" he's was so bloody right.
Love the West!
mw87
Posts: 123
Date Joined: 20/07/11
Im in the exact same
Im in the exact same position Wes. Im off to see the accountant tomorrow to close my construction business down. I have been doing internal shop and office fit-outs for the last 3 years (my company) and I can no longer see the point going through all the stress and after hours work when my mates working FIFO earn just as much or more but with half the hassles. Im 25, my results were 1st in NSW Tafe for 1,2 and 3 years of my apprenticeship with certificates, done a small business course after hours before I packed up and made the move over here 4+ years ago for the opportunity to establish myself after working with a few commercial builders over here. I now have an impressive job portfolio but am still convinced Im better off starting all over again in the gas or mining industry. All this talk about trade shortages, I haven't seen it, in fact there is a lot of competition. Ive found out if you are cheaper or already know the bloke, that's all that matters, regardless of standards.
Rob H
Posts: 5808
Date Joined: 18/01/12
I'll be devils advocate here.
I know FIFO can in some instances be a problem, but the problems you mention Wes are not uncommon in many other scenarios.
Heres some;
-outsiders putting pressure on local fish stocks. See Exmouth, Coral Bay, Shark Bay, Abrolhos, Jurien.
-antisocial behaviour, well we see that everywhere. Bali, Northbridge prime examples
-FIFO running off with the coin. If every worker on construction such as Pluto Gorgon etc stayed in town, pretty soon youd have the highest unemployment rate in the country.
-overseas companies, in many instances the size of these projects are far beyond the capabilities of local companies, hence Woodside and the NWShelf project etc. Not ideal by any means but that is the global economy which allows us to buy Jap outboards and cars, chinese electronics, yank boats etc.
Having said all that, how many FIFO workers have free time to seriously harrass local fish stocks or even have a boat in town to actually do it?
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Rig
Posts: 2925
Date Joined: 27/12/06
Alwaysfishin
Hit the nail on the head . Anyone who wants to whingeing and complain needs a reality check ie go travel in a 3rd world country and see what opportunity those people have
Wes F
Posts: 1067
Date Joined: 07/01/12
I'm not against FIFO work I
I'm not against FIFO work I worked for 2.5 years on the Pluto project and did quite well out of it I now work on the Gorgon Project in a international role. Having lived in a camp in Karratha I did see a lot of guys go out fishing and I'm sure the locals in Ktown can also verify this and there was a fair few who had boats. Yes anti social behaviour does happen all over the world and seems to be on the increase
I personally think out of all the countries inthe world Australia is the place to be and out of all the states WA is the place to be we are very furtunate to have these oppurtunities.
I do reckon the government need to focus on training and apprenticships.
I'm in no way having a whinge just a interested in pros & cons of said industries
Old fishermen never die they just smell that way.
UncutTriggerInWA
Posts: 2692
Date Joined: 05/09/08
What will happen when resources run out???
This place will be like it was before... A desert full of holes (more holes).
The issue of apprentices and their lack of pay is in the news right now. They get paid so little and get treated like shit it's no wonder they spread thier wings and head off up north. IMO the main problem is that people who do go north are paid ridiculous amounts of money. They work hard, live hard and generally fall into a big heap afterwards as they have no forward plan about assimilating into the non-mining sector. Take away the mines and WA starts to look like nothing other than a patch of farm land with nobody wanting to farm it and small pockets of people who want to live by the sea.
IMO we have it too good really. My advice to you WES F is to plan ahead. If you are worrying about such things now don't just post here mate, do some planning and set yourself up for future life without mining.
Vince.
Work smart and fish often.
Member and die-hard supporter of the mighty West Coast Eagles.
Wes F
Posts: 1067
Date Joined: 07/01/12
I'm no spring chicken have
I'm no spring chicken have worked hard for everything I've got only a small amount on house to pay off no other debts. I've been planning my future and looking a head since i was about 20. I'm glad my wife and I fixed our interest rate when they sky rocketed. I can always go back on the tools if needs be. But at the moment focusing on up skilling myself with in the management of ythe company I work for. this could lead to work all over the world I hope to be able to assist my two kids into the housing market when their time comes.
I do like to enjoy life as well not just focus on work life is to short and kids grow up to quick. I've done a fair bit of travel in this country and plan on more not leave it till the head has turned grey.
Old fishermen never die they just smell that way.
UncutTriggerInWA
Posts: 2692
Date Joined: 05/09/08
Grey hair
It's a sign of distinction and varility!! LOL IMO it's better than no hair LOL
Vince.
Work smart and fish often.
Member and die-hard supporter of the mighty West Coast Eagles.
sea-kem
Posts: 15030
Date Joined: 30/11/09
You're right about apprentice
You're right about apprentice pay rates Vince they're a joke. My adult apprentice's rates are $13.50 hr but I pay him way over that just so he can survive. The gov does subsidise this with $150 a week adult wage allowance so he's earning reasonable money. I got lucky he's 29 and super willing to learn as he know's he 's been given an opportunity. I have just scored offshore work and have stipulated to the client that I want him to come come too and they are more than happy to accomadate that. I will make sure that he stays with me at the end of his time by sending him offshore to earn the big $ and still live a life here in town.
Love the West!
chookc
Posts: 442
Date Joined: 07/01/10
The biggest problem I face in
The biggest problem I face in the constructiuon industry is getting workers who actually want to work... and work for the rite money for the Perth market...
See it all the time. FIFO worker gets kicked off site or missus says enough whateveer comes to me for a job in concrete tilt up construction.. First question is how big is the crew? ie will i have to work or can i just blend into the background and do nothing ..
The majority of good workers I have had that have left for the mines for more money etc come back after two or so years and their quality of work and work ethic just sucks... and now they want three and 4 times the money they were happy with before. Grow up this is Perth and no one can pay that sort of money and win a job.. let alone stay in business
AlwaysFishin
Posts: 644
Date Joined: 13/11/11
Have you ever stopped to
Have you ever stopped to think that maybe you are just employing the wrong people? I ran my own small gyprocking business for 4 years and know how hard it can be to find good employees. However, you talk about hiring guys who have been kicked off a minesite. Well, if a bloke can't get his shit together and hold down a job that's paying $100,000+ on wages, then how in the hell do you think he's gonna hold down a job in town that's paying $70,000 as a subbie?
It's easy to sit back and say FIFO workers are lazy and don't want to work and I won't deny that there are guys like that around. But I think it's an unfair generalization, as there's also a hell of a lot of lazy pricks in town who have never done FIFO. Unfortunately, some guys just have poor work ethics and it doesn't matter whether they're FIFO or not.
I believe the best way to solve the problem is to pay a bit more to get the decent tradies. In the short term it may reduce profits, but you get a better quality finished product, leading to more repeat work and more money. In the long term you're better off. Or perhaps apprentices is a worthwhile avenue. You get to pick the young blokes you want and teach them properly, the way you want the job done.
And while this isn't directed at yourself, some bosses need to change their attitude as well. It needs to be a two-way street. Happy employees means better production and more money and so on. I've seen good teams of guys leave jobs because the boss is a prick to work for. Decent tradies just won't put up with working for assholes.
The 2 main reasons I started doing FIFO :-
1. Tired of trying to find decent employees. Gave up on the bullshit of running a small business. The cons heavily outweigh the pros.
2. Sick or working for assholes that treat all their employees like shit.
Now I have a low stress job that pays better than any other job I've ever had and I get a week off with a bank full of cash. I know where I'd rather be :)
chookc
Posts: 442
Date Joined: 07/01/10
had two apprentices
and they lasted less than two months before they stopped turning up to work. and these were from the HIA.
Its fine to say Pay a bit more but where do you stop In my trade the wages are already over the top and THEY STILL WANT MORE..
thesupervisor
Posts: 1136
Date Joined: 10/06/09
yeap its just like the hooker
yeap its just like the hooker that retires
and has to work at mcdonalds they cant cope with the big pay change
im liking all the people going up north just means people down here need me more and that means i charge more
getting the bottom line final answer from a bunch of blokes that use false names and put smiley faces at the end of paragraphs is not the best place in the world to get the information you seek.
Rig
Posts: 2925
Date Joined: 27/12/06
just remember
Just remeber guys if aussies wont do the work mining companies are more than happy to bring in over seas workers so make the most of it, yes the land will be full of holes one day whether we like it or not. My trade has been very good to me I have worked and travelled to many parts of the world. I have gone back to fifo for initially a promotion but the amount of fishing and income generated I get as compared to working standard city hours is pretty hard to top
I did my appernticeship on shit rates when i was young and living at home. mature age apprentices where I work 8/6 7/7 roster earn $80000+ bonus and 50/50 share program + frequent flyer points and get exceptional training. You cannot treat an apprentice like shit in this day and age or risk facing the sack or a lawsuit