crustacean confusion!?!

hi all, i was walking around my 'secret' pond hunting some noxious carp. i say 'secret' because i only saw them for the first time on my 100th walk around this local pond, and i didnt want every man and their dog knocking elbows with me tryna catch a CARP of all things!. i know theyre a pest and i should probably share the location with every single fisherman in Australia, but if i did that...id have nothing to do on sundays within a month. OH! and my wife insisted we save the "pretty gold ones"...which resulted in me having to tear up part of my beloved lawn to install a freaking fibreglass puddle to fill with fish.

ANYWAY, long story short. on my night time round, i noticed some pretty little red eyes shining in my light amongst the tree roots. i managed to pluck 2 of these fellas outa the water, and to my surprise they seem to be completely different species!. Now, Im 100% positive neither of them are marron!, and they aint yabbies either. im thinking one is a gilgie and the other is a koonac? any thoughts??? i literally caught these guys within 5 feet of each other.

what i think is the gilgie (admittedly i got a bit overexcited in my effort to catch this one. she unfortunately acquired a battle scar from the stick i used to trap her with...and the she dropped a claw :(. on the + side, she took off like a rocket when she went back in the water) the flash had a bit of an impact on the colours, but as u can see it has a definate 'pinstripe' down the back and sides (sides are hard to see in pic) she also had long skinny claws, it was a combination of that and the light brown colour which pointed me to gilgie




This is what i think is the koonac. very dark in colour (almost black) and very wide claws.



i did google and check the fisheries site, but its too hard to tell! the were both roughly the same size at 120-130mm.

any input would be great.

i really didnt expect to find these guys in the same pond as carp, longneck turtles...and ibis'
 

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Yewiefish85's picture

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 That's what I call them for,

Sun, 2016-08-07 01:09

 That's what I call them for, when I was living in Perth I used to go catch gambusia for my pet Barra, often scoop netting up near Shelley bridge through the water weeds we caught what I think are gilgies, only tiny tho (size of panadole pill) but had the same pin stripe as yours

little johnny's picture

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I would say

Sun, 2016-08-07 03:35

 1 st pic Immature  marron. 100%..2nd koonac. Don't forget marron are not all black ( brown also)

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dont forget

Tue, 2016-08-16 22:04

 dont forget the mossy backs johnny

Wes F's picture

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Both Marron

Sun, 2016-08-07 06:12

To me I think they're both marron. Top 1 female and bottom 1 male. Marron are found ranging in color from a reddie brown color to black and even dark blue. Females will have thinner clawers and a more slender head and the males larger ones.

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Swompa's picture

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 Per above, I am thinking

Sun, 2016-08-07 07:21

 Per above, I am thinking that they are both Marron. The red joint on the first is what I always identified as Marron

Anytime Brad's picture

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Second one defiantly not a marron

Sun, 2016-08-07 08:13

Smooth caripice and wide claws. Used to call it a gilgie as a kid
First one sure looks like a marron

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Wes F's picture

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Check these out

Sun, 2016-08-07 09:09

Marron of various shapes and colors

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Marron+Crayfish&FORM=IRBPRS&=0

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 Old fishermen never die they just smell that way.

little johnny's picture

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5 rises

Sun, 2016-08-07 09:56

 2 from spike . 1 in middle and back a bit from spike.2 ,1each side starting from eye socket. Rises on marrons carapace . Your pic has that. Looking at your pic as iam looking at mine in aquarium 100% marron .2 nd pic Koonacs are the only freshwater crayfish to have a spur that stands out on there middle joint ( gilgies or yabbies don't ) they all share smooth heads. Marron have little Spurs also but don't have smooth heads. Iam standing looking at all bar a koonac while typing. Anyway your 2nd pic has spur on left on middle joint. Can't see right joint. Cheers 

Willlo's picture

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 Would've made a nice sanga

Sun, 2016-08-07 11:12

 Would've made a nice sanga regardless 

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sea-kem's picture

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 Lol

Sun, 2016-08-07 11:19

 Lol

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 Yep that's what I was

Sun, 2016-08-07 13:03

 Yep that's what I was thinking

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turtl3tim's picture

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 Hahaha, it would have been a

Sun, 2016-08-07 14:51

 Hahaha, it would have been a very illegal and very small sandwich if it was indeed a marron. The claws on the one in the first pic just did not seem like marrons claws. The closest i could compare it to, on the fish.wa.gov site was the gilgie. Ive also never seen a marron with a pattern like that on it before. The second has to be a koonac, its claws are just too big to be a marron, and theres not enough ridges on its noggin'. i had a look for spikes at the end of its tail (which i didnt do on the first one) and there were none.

I might go and throw some scraps over there and just see if theres anything bigger than what i plucked out. There are some very very small ones there...so there must be bigger ones. If there nothing bigger than 120-130mm then they cant be marron lol.

 

This pond actually overflows into a local river through about 100m of pipe, and that river does have marron. 100% positively identifiable marron

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 Those small ones are corner

Sun, 2016-08-07 15:08

 Those small ones are corner fillers. 

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Ten years

Sun, 2016-08-07 19:51

 no parole for the top undersize female Marron out of season...probably in berry ( u did check?)

Bottom one is a koonac- that sandwich better be worth it... 

 

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turtl3tim's picture

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not sure what u mean by in

Tue, 2016-08-09 18:50

not sure what u mean by in 'berry'? there were no eggs on her tho. and afaik theres no seasons for koonacs, gilgies or yabbies...so even if i kept the koonac why would the sandwich need to be worth it?

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 Good things come to those who bait.

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 Not many people these days

Tue, 2016-08-09 21:02

 Not many people these days have a sense of humour and or can't take a comment in jest. 

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little johnny's picture

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I think he is

Tue, 2016-08-09 19:29

 On about marron .would have died anyway. Top section of tail split wide open.:):). Right about others ,no season.

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Unfortunately even though

Wed, 2016-08-10 09:05

Unfortunately even though there is no season for gilgies, yabbies and koonacs, if fisheries catch you fishing for them in a public waterway chances are you will get done for fishing for marron outside of season and using illegal fishing gear. It is a bit of a grey area which I think needs to be sorted out as kids should be allowed to catch yabbies at any time, and if it is in a suburbs man made pond who cares if the odd marron gets caught as well.

Another one of those issues where the letter of the law gets in the way of the intent of the law!

Jackalchub's picture

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 Grew up down south and did

Wed, 2016-08-10 09:41

 Grew up down south and did many projects on these as a kid. Top pic - Gilgie, second pic Koonak. Not enough indentations in head for them to be Marron. Eat away 

Glenn Moore's picture

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gilgie and marron

Thu, 2016-08-11 11:50

 I’ve asked our two freshwater cray experts who came up with this:

The top photo is a gilgie and the bottom is definitely a koonac. Never seen a marron with stripes, only the gilgies and koonacs. Have definitely seen this three-striped variety of gilgie from creeks in the Swan Valley up around Herne Hill. It’s hard to accurately ID to species based on these photos, but if this pond is in Perth, then the gilgie would most likely be Cherax quinquecarinatus and the koonac is Cherax preissi

Cheers,

Glenn

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Jackalchub's picture

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 Sounds spot on to me

Thu, 2016-08-11 12:17

 Sounds spot on to me

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well then

Tue, 2016-08-16 22:09

 i am not going to argue with that

turtl3tim's picture

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yeah im pretty certain that

Tue, 2016-08-16 12:10

yeah im pretty certain that they are what i called them for...ill throw up some better pics. both marron and gilgies have the 5 notches on the carapace, but marron have spikes on the telson where as the giglie doesnt. no sign of anything bigger in the pond, max size is about that of a full grown gilgie/koonac.

glenn, the pond is in bunbury

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my local pond

Tue, 2016-08-16 22:14

 where i live in rocky our local lake has been bursting over the banks  with all the rain , local bird population has been having a feast on the yabbie/koonacks walking out of the lake