Fisheries, its not all happy stories!
Have a read of this below.
Basically Fisheries prosecuted a diver for bringing up more than his 8 crays and gauging onboard the boat, as many people including me.
Their idea was that you have "taken" those crays once onboard, despite this not being the case with pots, having 5 minutes to return the kakkas etc.
This guy took it to court and won, with the judge awarding costs to the defendant.
This annoys the shit out of me, and is the reason I got myself involved with Recfishwest.
Fisheries wasting their goodwill and everybodies time and money prosecuting stupid crap that has no effect on the fishery itself just like last years "you can only keep crays from your own pot".
http://www.wafishaman.com/content/just-a-reminder-about-fisheries
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Auslobster
Posts: 1901
Date Joined: 03/05/08
If you carefully read..
...the fine print at the back of fisheries' lobster guide, it essentially says that it's NOT a legal document and is not admissible in a court of law. So basically they can change the goalposts any time they feel like it.
What's the difference between a diver coming up with a bag of crays which may be undersize/over bag/setose/etc, or a pot coming up with the same mixture?
Good result...but two possible outcomes: Licence fees to go up to cover the cost of their (fisheries') stupidity, and/or yet another pedantic rule change.
dodgy
Posts: 4563
Date Joined: 01/02/10
So that is clearly an
So that is clearly an indicator that if you have 3 on board and intend on taking 3 bag limits you have to leave the boat unattended. Many in the past would have 2 diving and catch the crays on the behalf of the boat minder who is still participating in fishing...
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Lol old news
Good on the divers . Rep from recfish was there . Supporting divers (5 min rule). It's was interesting .sat in for few hours on first day. In my books they where trying to twist wording( on the take rule). Good win for divers no dought they will try change before next season. Pretty hard to gauge look for fine hairs under water . Safety first limited time underwater could be surgey murky many factors . Safety first in my books. :):):)
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
not really old news, was
not really old news, was only sorted a couple of weeks back.
But agreed, safety first and its just stupid pointless interpretation that is just another reason you need to lie to Fisheries at the ramp when they ask you a question.
For all the feelgood stories of the real baddies they catch and prosecute, they still have the time money and resources to waste on this shit.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Agree
:):):)
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
Heaps of pics on Facebook
Heaps of pics on Facebook this year showing 50+ crays pilled up in the corner of the boat ,or in big white tubs waiting to be gauged.All big whites ..How big is my dick photos.
Active Gyp-Rok solutions ,Residential and commercial ceilings and walls
Subaquatic
Posts: 515
Date Joined: 23/04/11
Those are the sort of people
Those are the sort of people who should be prosecuted, if you cant pick out 8 crays in amongst 50 big whites underwater, you shouldnt be diving. Thats the sort of shit that will get diving for crays banned.
sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
I'm a few of the fishing
I'm a few of the fishing pages and crayfishing wa page. Can't say I've seen that happen, only guys taking picks of their legal catch. I can promise you that if there was any type of overhaul posted everyone would and are all over it like a shot. Can't see the problem with how big is my dick pics, it's what it's all about isn't it
Love the West!
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
The positive side of this
The positive side of this story, playing Devil's advocate, is now, that '(mis)interpretation' by fisheries has been clarified and adjudicated upon by a court of law, and unless fisheries appeal, it stands. So we are now much clearer on what is the law in this situation.
Unfortunately for the divers in this case it sometimes takes this kind of determination and inconvenience and stress to test these interpretations.
I think it probably strengthens the argument for three bag limits by two divers WHEN a third is in the boat for safety. But I'll let someone else go through the pain of testing that in court.
Fish! HARD!
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
sorry
sorry but that is bollocks Randell, the points being
1/ what possible benefit to the fishery is there by stopping divers gauging on the surface
2/ what possible damage is being done to the crays that doesnt happen in a pot?
3/ read the link and you'll see that the prosecutor told him they just changed the rules, so the test case means fuckall
All points above, in the context that the amateur quota is still no where near being attained.
Just means, once again, when I dive for crays with my kids aboard I (again) have to tell my kids not to answer any Fisheries questions at the ramp-a great message for them...
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
The link is a forum
The link is a forum discussion. I didnt read it. I was commenting on your original post. Have they changed the rules? Only way to know is to go to tbe legislation - the Act and the Regs.
I dont see how a diver brining them to the boat is more damaging to a pot bringing them to a boat is? Diving is perhaps a less impacting method of capture as trapped (potted) crays make easy targets for octopus,
Thats not the point i am making. People complain about the regs being ambiguous. This is one method and the most decisive method of making them less ambiguous. The court has ruled that divers can bring crays to the boat is my understanding. Unless fisheries appeal that decision, or change the regs so they're less ambigous, it stands. Either way, the end result is less confusion of what divers can or cant do.
Fish! HARD!
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Cut and paste, to save you
Cut and paste, to save you going there
quote 17/12/15
"A big long winded day in court and the magistrate has reserved her verdict until 11 Feb.
I would like to think we won the day but its going to be up the the magistrate to decide. At least thats good that she is thinking about it so its not that clear.
Had some great support on our witness side .
It boils down to the definition of "take" and the ambiguity of the Guide and Legislation.
I got completely lost when both lawyers started quoting this section and that sub section but I think we come out on top.
It needs to be sorted as most fishers think and act as we do in relation to checking our catch.
Tell us and we will do it but don’t fine us for something that has been the norm for the last 20 odd yrs.
Thanks for the guys the came along to support us .
They is already talk of getting a high court ruling on the legislation and possible funding so win or loose its not over yet.
Keep you all posted and in the mean time do the meerkat before you get them in the boat"
quote 3/3/16
"Court dismissed the case and awarded me costs.
However the Fisheries waylaid me after the verdict and warned me the rules have changed. I have no idea what they are and cant find anything on the internet.
He was real stroppy and arguing so lucky my wife dragged me away for a beer.
So I suppose I am number one on their hit list."
Meanwhile someone is well out of pocket, or put at risk substantial funds defending himself on an issue that has absolutely no potential impact threat or otherwise on any marine animal.
So what was the point of the whole stupid saga?
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Fisheries, probably thought
Fisheries, probably thought they were "clarified" and were clearly mistaken. Hats off to this guy, because we all benefit as a result of his persistence. Its results like this that gives recfish west the ammo to invite fisheries to sit down and clarify other rules.
Fish! HARD!
sandbar
Posts: 704
Date Joined: 25/10/09
What a disgrace
This arse clown fisheries officer on a power trip should be prosecuted for bringing disrepute into the fishing community and wasting "everyone's" time who has had to have a part in his uneducated act. And the prick who gave this arseclown the responsibilty to uphold the law needs his arse kicked too!
I think it would be a no brainer that divers can bring their catch to the boat and gauge them. Obviously we/I do this when skull dragging my pot to the surface with numerous undersize in it copping an unneccessary flogging.
And the "arseclown" has the nerve to have a go at the bloke he tried prosecuting straight after the verdict! Is this prick serious!!!
Pisses me off reading this sort of sh1t!
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
the concerning thing with
the concerning thing with this, is that it is not simply an individual officver who makes that decision.
He takes a statement then puts in a report to the Compliance section who decides if a prosecution should take place.
So it comes from the top not the bottom of WAF.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
hezzy
Posts: 1519
Date Joined: 27/11/09
this action does not surprise
this action does not surprise me at all
back in the late 80s, I had the same experience , one fisho decided to charge me over something that he knew was a waste of time ,but he probly thought I would just plead guilty and pay up
anyway I got legal advice & defended it , 9 months later it took up myself and a mates full day in court , plus the fisho & their legal beagles full day & some ...all for the magistrate to dismiss it ,
the said fisho did the same thing almost ,quite strongly he advised me straight after leaving the court main entrance to buy a lotto ticket , as he had not lost a case in 8 years and he thought I was that lucky &I should have been pinged
I pointed out to him that clearly the magistrate did not agree
I did have for several years afterwards many over the top inspections and issues with them ,even to the point where they questioned my 2 sons age 11 & 13 one day on the beach in my absence about our days fishing activitys ... all of which mostly where also a waste of their time and effort
best they ever did was fine me for my sons [ then aged 13 & 15 ]using a unlicenced 3.1 metre tinny for dragging a biscuit around in the shallows at wonnerup one day , this little tinny never had a trailer and had been given to them by a mate of mine , so they stuck an auxillary 9hp motor on it and had a day of fun at the beach
history repeats itself in may ways , and yes you will get some blokes in gov depts. who push on with an infringement notice even when common sense should dictate other wise
good result for these blokes , but I agree with rob it never should have been pursued in the first place
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
Boydy
Posts: 623
Date Joined: 26/09/12
Stung
Got literally set up about 5 years ago snorkeling for abbs.
Coming in from a session on one of the reefs north of Trigg on a day the swell was up over a couple of meters. Had been getting pretty battered out there and decided to head in to do a quick stock take as I had lost count but knew I was close to my bag. A couple of cartwheels across the reef and literally ended up sitting in chest deep water getting my shit back together and was met by a fisheries lady. She asked how did I go and was I finished. I replied to her pretty tough going out there and I was just doing a stock take to check my numbers as I think I could be close but possibly a couple short, but couldn't count them accurately while head down treading water and getting a pounding on the reef. She replied yeah no worries come up on shore and we can have a look. I told her again I hadn't finished and just wanted to check my bag. She again replied no worries.
So up to the shore I go, do a count and wouldn't you know it,had 21. At the time limit was 20.
Told her I'll stick this one back, then it all turned to shit.
Told me I had removed it from the reef and was deemed in my possession and I had taken in excess of my bag, full stop.
She also advised me once removed from the reef, they die to which I replied only if you damage them. She told me I was wrong and they die that is why I could not legally return an excess amount to my bag. So after I prised one off my abb knife after it had re attached itself (clearly not dead)she returned it to the water, no doubt to live on as it was not damaged in any way.
She then advised me due to my infringing being on the low end of the scale I would be issued an official written warning by mail and be registered as have taken in excess of my allowed bag limited.
She told me I was lucky it wasn't being taken further...
To this day it still guts me how this went down as it was never my intention to do this nor has it ever been.
I have not bothered renewing my abb license since and don't go near them anymore, it just pisses me off.
sandbar
Posts: 704
Date Joined: 25/10/09
Yes true Rob
it is concerning.
We got pulled over and and the vehicles turned inside out. Absolutely no problems us crew said, 4 cars a trailer and a tinnie, then after the whole encounter everything was labelled and in order. All possessions were weighed under to allow for the scales if they were out and guess what gets said to us at the end of it all. "You're lucky this time". Lycky for what? Everything was to the letter of the law they enforce. Thats arseclowns brother and sister. This was exiting steep pt.
D_d_001
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 09/03/13
yeah ...I've been fishing
yeah ...I've been fishing coral bay for 20ish year.
Always keep within the limit label and do the right thing fisheries wise.
and although has never happened to me absolutely dread the day we get pulled over by fisheries and have our couple of weeks catch dragged out of the eski on a 40deg day into the sun to weigh and check labels etc....knowing we have a 10 hour trip back to Gero. overnight then back to perth the next day.
Got to say if this happens will prob be asking fisheries to chuck the couple of weeks catch in the local skip bin for us to save us the hassle of dragging a whole pile of defrosted fillets all the way back to Perth.
FWIW have had fisheries say "your lucky this time" to us as well. Really what exactly are they implying?? much more appropriate to say "good on you for doing the right thing. well done"
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Did not know guy
Went to court to see what officer it was. Was the one I thought it was. You are talking about some elderly gentleman who still dives.(10 year plus on me) good on him . Prob diving before I was born . It's allright for people to make smart ass comments about people . It's alright for the young guys who dive good eyes ect. Try spot fine hairs on female white cray dirty water ect. Proven fact in deeper water impossible. Put in factor prescription gogles .not about John Thomas size. Imagine stress they went through . Same as guy who got bashed at point peron few weeks back. Couple of people hammered him. Without proper Intel . I don't give a crap about most things but fact not fiction. Bite my ass if you don't agree. This type crap stops posting fish pics . They done nothing wrong. 1 officer trying to push new make believe rule in Speargun . Torch. Snare . Buddy tank and gauge . Yep spend another extra few minutes stuffing around. Take rule in my books is when you rip of or cut middle of tail. Then it's a keeper. Had my rant now happy:):):):)
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
Officers carrying out their duties
I have posted on this and other sites my congratulations to Dof officers for the way and results of carrying out the requirements of their jobs.
That requirement being, to ensure that the requirements of the gazetted fishing regulations are complied with by fishos pursuing the resource of their choice that is covered by some sort of regulation with the aim of holding stocks at a renewable bio mass level.
Now, the people who obtain a position of a Fisheries Compliance Officer are put through a selection process that hopefully (repeat) sorts out those persons who do not have a mature personality and disposition.
It is very important that such persons are rejected as they are not of the standard required to be entrusted with the authority that such a position holds.
Be it as a Fisheries Compliance Officer, Police Officer Transit Guard, or any other position which is supported by the weight of government authority.
During training for one of the above mentioned positions it is quite common if not mandatory for part of the training to involve how to interview suspected law breakers (and lets remember that that is why the officer is speaking to you).
He/she is not interested in what sort of day you are having or how the wife and kids are going, you have attracted his attention by having your eyes too close together, or your hair style offends him/her, or just maybe the boss has said you haven't written many briefs up this month.
There could be another reason though, and that is this person has slipped through the screening process and is of flawed attributes that the granting of state sponsored powers lets loose on society a psychopath that has been sleeping.
These people have the view that I'll say what is be done what I think needs to be done, will be done or else, the law makers have got it all wrong they are not on the public arena.
Now when this happens it creates problems for fishos, (the persecuted) problems for those that didn't detect this short coming in the officers make up, and how the hell do we get rid of them and keep face.
Yes we have these people in the system, but luckily not many of them and at some point down the track their employer will take action to keep the public faith in the other officers.
Sadly but unfortunately by promoting them up the tree to a desk position
What can we do about it, make written complaints to your local pollie and the minister of the flawed officers department.
No HOD likes to answer ministerials about their staff.
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
And thats why, as a
And thats why, as a civilised society we have a judicial process (that is normally the brunt of more complaint than compliment) to determine the facts and interpret the law. It may be inconvenient, but it is a necessity as this case shows.
Fish! HARD!
sandbar
Posts: 704
Date Joined: 25/10/09
Im sorry to say meglodon
You are right yet the said arseclown wormed his way through the selection process.
Its not deemed to be part of your bag until the tail is clipped!
So if the tails were clipped,no argument from me. A little commonsense goes a long way. And yes they dont care about your day but if they come to work after the wife has refused a blowie guess who pays.... we do! And then its upto us to fight out innocence.
Walfootrot
Posts: 1386
Date Joined: 23/07/12
To me the Regs are clear. I
To me the Regs are clear. I posted on another site about a year ago with regards to the "taking of crays"
Extract from
Fish Resources Management
Regulations 1995
12. Totally protected rock lobsters and crabs to be released
(1) Any person who takes from the sea any totally protected fish
that is a rock lobster must ensure that the rock lobster is —
(a) released to the sea within 5 minutes of being taken; and
(b) if taken by means of a rock lobster pot, is released to the
sea before any other rock lobster pot is pulled.
(2) The master of a boat must ensure that any totally protected fish
that is a rock lobster taken from the sea and brought on board
the boat —
(a) is released to the sea within 5 minutes of being taken;
and
(b) if taken by means of a rock lobster pot, is released to the
sea before any other rock lobster pot is pulled.
AND THIS
Division 5 — Requirements regarding rock lobsters
31. Rock lobster: permitted ways to fish for and tail marking
(1) In this regulation —
allowed time, in relation to a rock lobster, means —
(a) where a boat is used in connection with the taking of the
rock lobster, within 5 minutes of bringing the rock
lobster to the boat; or
(b) where a boat is not used in connection with the taking of
the rock lobster, within 5 minutes of bringing the rock
lobster onto land;
tail clip means the removal of the bottom half of the central
segment (telson) of the tail fan of a rock lobster by horizontal
So divers can bring their catch to the boat to sort them, and you have 5 min to do it in.
More drum lines, kill the bloody sharks!
sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Pretty clear cut eh Wal
Pretty clear cut eh Wal
Love the West!
Walfootrot
Posts: 1386
Date Joined: 23/07/12
Yep, to me there are one or
Yep, to me there are one or two fisheries officers that don't understand the intent of the act and act as keystone cops. They are very bias.... but don't get me started on that....
More drum lines, kill the bloody sharks!
stricko
Posts: 222
Date Joined: 10/05/10
You would think common sense
You would think common sense would be used but not always the case. A friend leaves steep point after three days spearfishing he has ten fish the possession limit is forteen fish of these four are mackerel two have the heads and tails removed two just the tails also one travally with the head removed so as to fit in his esky.up jumps two of denams finest officers how many fish does he have well in their books seven whole fish the two tail less macks and the headless trev were classed as fillets because the book stated trunks had to have both head and tail removed. My friend was given a fine which he argued later with head office they decided to change it to a warning took him two years and a lot of heart ake to convince them that wasn't good enough and they dropped it all together. Where do they get these people from I don't know
Jsmolly
Posts: 176
Date Joined: 10/04/12
Ok my turn to rant! Last day
Ok my turn to rant! Last day abs season following happens,
- down the beach with mate and our sons
- Asian family dump gear literally on top of us (my fins covered by their blanket)
- duly kicked sand on their rug
- fisheries a handball way
- got our 15 abs in record time
- old mate in front comes in and empties bag with wife
- heads out again
- we ask fisheries if this is legal. We know the answer
- mr plod asks if this has happened, we advise him to keep his eyes out
- approaches wife, old mates mate exists water, then after speaking gobldy gook re enters water to wife
- we watch him tell old mate what's going on (no cant speak or lip read gobldy gook but we all know what was said)
- old mate bag emptied in plain site of all
- no prosecution capable as hadn't left water
= fisheries can't even do job when public do it for them yet they try the crap starting this thread?!
timboon
Posts: 2924
Date Joined: 14/11/10
100% agree Rob, If you're an
100% agree Rob,
If you're an amatuer fisho hoping to catch a feed its guilty until proven innocent i'm afraid....
We see very little of the fishpigs down south, 95% of people fish for the future and are responsible so i hope they stay the fuck away....
stricko
Posts: 222
Date Joined: 10/05/10
just heard that fisheries
just heard that fisheries are going to appeal the magistrates decision on the bloke diving for crays .Bloody nice if you have unlimited funds at your disposal unlike the poor diver would like to see a photo of this maggot in uniform but will treat them all with the contempt they deserve from now on.
sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
That's not really the
That's not really the attitude to take. There are dickhead's in every profession and every walk of life. These guys do an outstanding job on the whole, if you react like a dick to them expect it to be reciprocated. I've never had any dramas the amount of times I've been checked out. They are officers after all and deserve a bit of respect. Who know's what the attitude of the diver charged was on the day. Elephant in the room?
Love the West!
Subaquatic
Posts: 515
Date Joined: 23/04/11
Agreed.Every Company has its
Agreed.Every Company has its dickheads. Not fair to the good blokes in the job to treat them all like Shiite.
They are not the blokes who decide when and who to go after, they just uphold the rules they are given.
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
the concern to me though, is
the concern to me though, is that while there certainly are dicks in every job, in Fisheries the officer doesnt decide who gets prosecuted.
It is the Compliance section who makes that decision, so a much more senior officer.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Walfootrot
Posts: 1386
Date Joined: 23/07/12
Sea-kem, the bloke charged
Sea-kem, the bloke charged has served Australia well before retiring, wont go into what he done. but will say he is a calm man.
This Fisheries officer is a right tosser that makes up what ever he wants.
He is bias. How can the regs allow pot pullers the time to sort out their catch and not the divers.
Please read the sections from the regs I posted in this thread.
More drum lines, kill the bloody sharks!
sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Read the points I made Wal,
Read the points I made Wal, I agree as said there's tossers in every trade. And as I said also none of us know what transpired on the day in question. I'm not supporting anyone here just being devils advocate, two sides to every story etc.
Love the West!
sandbar
Posts: 704
Date Joined: 25/10/09
So to feed his Ego trip
the arseclown is going to spend more tax payers dollars to fund his/her/IT's revenge. I hope if it gets thrown from court again that the said arsehole loses "IT's" job.
I state and quote " each officer in their position is entitled to make an educated decision for each circumstance as to wether there is a need to prosecute someone", This person has a personal grudge and is now abusing the tax payers money to fund his/her/IT's ego fuelled revenge! What a deadset turd smoker! I am not tarnishng every officer with the same brush, just this particular case where the said offender was found not guilty. And it is stated that crayfish removed from the reef are to be returned to the water within 5 minutes of capture, which is exactly the case here. No tails clipped means no intent to keep.
I hope this does not go any further. Will be watching with keen interest.
stricko
Posts: 222
Date Joined: 10/05/10
It's up to the so called
It's up to the so called officer to use his own discretion and prosecuting people for their attitude if this is the case only make the orifice in question worse. These people think they are a power to their own the fact they are pursuing this means it not just the act of one knob head any how they work in pairs but there whole department so fuckem
Subaquatic
Posts: 515
Date Joined: 23/04/11
I dont think this is
I dont think this is correct. The officer cannot make the decision to prosecute. All he can do is charge a person, conduct the investigation, and recommend that the DPP prosecute. Its up to the DPP to decide who to go after based on the investigation. I tried to cut and paste from the current DPP guidlelines, but cant seem to do it. Its pretty clear though.
That being said, if the officer is certain the DPP can win the case, he can push the DPP pretty hard, and perhaps in this case, this is what happened?
stricko
Posts: 222
Date Joined: 10/05/10
Why try to charge some one
Why try to charge some one for a non offense unless you're just harassing them and then keep after them after being proven they were in the right and you and your dept were wrong. Fisheries have no credibility in my books so I will only show them the respect they deserve zero
Subaquatic
Posts: 515
Date Joined: 23/04/11
For the good guys sake, I
For the good guys sake, I hope you are a minority, and most decent people will look past the very few idiots, and realise that Fisheries, for the most part, do a good job.
If we treat them ALL with disrespect, and show them contempt, I am almost certain the outcome wont effect them, but will have a massive effect on you.
Take it up with the DPP, who are the people driving the prosecution. Make the DPP realise that the officer in question is being unreasonable, and unfair. Make him accountable, not the whole agency.
sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Attitude says it all Sub
Love the West!
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
Hmmm it does seem a bit strange
What has happened does seem to be a bit strange, I think/hope there is more to the story than what has appeared here. Other wise they certainly are looking a bit inept.