New Install Raymarine Axiom Pro

 I'm starting this new thread because I'm going to mount 3 transducers through hull (wet faced) on my Cruisecraft Outsider 575

The components are ordered and will start to arrive this week and include:

  • Axiom Pro9 RVX with AU/NZ Nav+ card
  • Set of RV220 thru hull Transducers
  • Airmar PM265LM transducer - eta 3 weeks

This will be coupled with my existing mercury Vesselview7 and NMEA2000 GPS antenna via NMEA2000 backbone and hopefully the Mercury data will be available across the network.

I have a Navionics platinum card already so the Vesselview can mostly be used for navigation and the Axiom for split screen sounder across the 5 available Sounder channels. This will afford me traditional down and side scan, Realvision 3D, High chirp at 600w, low and medium chirp at 1 Kw

This project will involve the following main parts and I intend to do the whole thing myself:

  1. Manufacture a GRP pocket for the CM265
    1. I'll be 3D printing a 2mm larger copy of the transducer for use as a plug to mould the pocket.
  2. Cut the Hull and glass the pocket into the hull for an almost flush finish in the Keel for the PM265LM
  3. Drill holes and install the two Raymarine RV220 Transducers
  4. Run transducer wiring and rewire the dash accordingly
  5. Cradle mount the Axiom and waterproof the cable penetrations
  6. Relocate the Bilge pump and possible the inline fuel filter.
  7. Reconfigure the two rear most sets of inner rollers on the trailer to clear the RV220
    1. This will probably require welding and re-galvanising which is a bugger because I've just refurbished and re-galvanised the trailer
  8. Finally Commission the system and get the NMEA talking so the Mercury data is available to the Axiom and waypoints are created on both screens simultaneously from either screen

I'm hoping this will give me an excellent fishing sounder setup and will post this up as I go for the interest of FW members. I tend to get my teeth stuck into a project so hopefully I'll take the time to document the progress for your entertainment and a good historical record of the buildup of my boat called "Ball Breaker"

Thanks to all you've given me guidance along the way to choosing this path, it's been a long road with hours of reading/research and waiting for the release of this Raymarine gear, to finally take the plunge and invest into a new setup. I have two very young kids and don't get that much fishing time, I'm also new to fishing and it didn't take me long to want good eyes in the water so I can get the most out of my boat and fishing time spent on it.

Plans:

I started with surveying the bilge section of my boat which is a double skinned type with the inner bilge part of the deck moulding. This has raised sides which turn outwards to to compartments for battery and pumps on the Starboard and second battery and storage on the port. The CC hulls have a flat keel or planing board which is about 145mm at the rear and a 20 degree deadrise.

The options were a single RV transducer on the keel with two 20 degree B175 chirp transducers on the sides. Didn't love this option because the RV transducer would be exposed in the rearmost position on the keel, especially for rearward beaching, and the two off 175s are expensive.

Chosen option is the pocket mount 265 in the keel with the 20 degree offset RVs at sides. I liked this better because I think the 265 will get the best water and least hull induced airbubbles in the keel at the cost of trailer mods to get rollers clear of the RVs. Not to mention the considerable extra work involved in glassing a large pocket into the keel of my boat.

Bilge plan to scale (Updated with changes to scale and delete Raw intake 31-10)

Project

  1. Manufacture a GRP pocket for the CM265
    1. Manufacture a plug to mould the pocket onto with 3D printing technology.

The best way I see is to model the transducer in CAD and 3D print a plug. The dimensions have been taken off Airmar published data which isn't quite complete but after harvesting the drawings off the web, I checked the scale for distortion and the image appears to be exactly to scale. With this I used software I have to scale and measure the missing data. I don't have CAD skills but a friend and fellow FW member does and also has a 3D printer so we now have a virtual 3D model.

I've also emailed Airmar to see if I can get more exact measurements. They have published a radius of 59mm and a width of 117mm which doesn't add up but when measured from scale I get 118mm which works. It could just be the yanks rounding when converting to metric. I have used 118mm which is bigger anyway so it will give an extra 0.5mm clearance if anything. I'd like to get the pocket made in advance so it's ready and the transducer and pocket can be installed into the hull as soon as it gets here but it's a small gamble working off published data rather than measuring the unit in hand.... I'll make a decision whether to print off this data when/if I hear back from Airmar.

Scale drawing check

Virtual model

 


crano's picture

Posts: 403

Date Joined: 04/11/09

Keep it coming

Sun, 2017-10-29 20:39

 Great read but I dont understand why you are having two RV transducers.

gruntre69's picture

Posts: 271

Date Joined: 15/10/16

 Because in side scan & 3D

Sun, 2017-10-29 21:53

 Because in side scan & 3D mode they shoot out at a very high angle. When you put them on a 20 degree dead rise,  the hull would block one side of the image. They split them into two. I'm not 100% sure what Raymarine does but I think one transducer has one side scan , downscan & high chirp conventional 2D elements and the transducer on the other side simply has the single side scan element. This makes up an almost 180 degree view when the head unit puts it all together. I've read this is how Garmin do it & it makes sense to me.. 

JohnF's picture

Posts: 2581

Date Joined: 07/07/10

 Awesome stuff mate. Keep me

Sun, 2017-10-29 20:50

 Awesome stuff mate. Keep me updated on the performance of the Axiom. 

 

____________________________________________________________________________

Boston Whaler 235 Conquest......getting the flogging it was built for.

ranmar850's picture

Posts: 1384

Date Joined: 12/08/12

So would be the same with a transom mount?

Mon, 2017-10-30 06:21

 Would the RV200 TM have the same issue? Outboard leg get in the way? The package www.outbackmarine.com.au/axiom-12-rv-multi-function-12-display-with-integra~21339, are you saying it will not get 3D with a single xducer? Or, if going TM, would you need two?

gruntre69's picture

Posts: 271

Date Joined: 15/10/16

 No the Transom mount which I

Mon, 2017-10-30 15:19

 No the Transom mount which I thought was a RV100 is an all in one. It has all the elements in one like the RV200 and RV300 through hull units. All of these three need to be placed where there is an uninterupted side view for best results. The TM could be shadowed by the leg especially if trimmed in and suffers with any problems associated with any TM transducer.

Posts: 428

Date Joined: 21/05/12

CAD stuff looks shit hot ;p

Mon, 2017-10-30 08:43

CAD stuff looks shit hot ;p

Stevo81's picture

Posts: 907

Date Joined: 16/04/12

Great thread Mate!

Mon, 2017-10-30 15:49

Can your AxiomPro drive both your RV transducers and your dual channel CM265 from a built in sonar module?

Can you fit a second screen? Even network a cheaper unit that can display the sonar etc fro the Pro unit? Your gonna want a bit more realestate to display all those sonar options at the same time!

____________________________________________________________________________

                                   ••••••••  Electrical Contractor NOR  ••••••••

gruntre69's picture

Posts: 271

Date Joined: 15/10/16

Can your AxiomPro drive both

Mon, 2017-10-30 21:50

"Can your AxiomPro drive both your RV transducers and your dual channel CM265 from a built in sonar module?"

Yes

"Can you fit a second screen?"

Yes

"Even network a cheaper unit that can display the sonar etc fro the Pro unit?"

I assume you could do this with a cheaper standard Axiom (no sonar) 2 x 9" would be good..

"Your gonna want a bit more realestate to display all those sonar options at the same time!" 

You are so right, I really want the 12" but it is $2K more at the end of the day Steve, I'm working to a budget mate...

I can deal with the smallish screen as long as I get the performance when underway. Wearing the reading glasses will be required... and I'm thinking the 3D and sidescan stuff will probably only good in <40m so It will probably be 2D with 2 channels most of the time for fishing and looking for ground. We'll see...

Posts: 309

Date Joined: 24/04/11

Good write up

Mon, 2017-10-30 22:20

ill be watching this install.

ive been debating between the raymarine and Garmin xsv for my cruise craft.

 Looking forward to see some images. Have fun.

 

gruntre69's picture

Posts: 271

Date Joined: 15/10/16

 Decided to pull the rear

Tue, 2017-10-31 22:31

 Decided to pull the rear sets of rollers off the trailer today so I could gain access to the bottom of the boat bilge area. After chasing up some exact detail about the RV transducers and printing up a template, I realised that I can't really make it work with the Raw water scoop in the current location. I also had more reservations about turbulance after seeing how big these are in real life. So I've decided the Raw intake will be removed, it will be patched and will end up under the Starboard RV anyway. Image updated in original post

Also due to concern about the turbulence from the RVs onto the 265, I've moved them further aft to try to get the leading egdes more in line which will efectively move the turbulant flow from the RVs back which will less likely effect the 265. The lowest point on the RVs is 30mm higher than the face of the 265 so hopefully any hull induced air bubbles sweeping around the RVs will not make it downwards and over the 265 face.

So I think I can do a minor change to the rear roller brackets on the trailer and make it work.

Now I have also heard from Raymarine that the Axiom might not work at all with the PM265 due to the possibility of it not being able to resolve the XID of the transducer. I'm waiting to hear more on this because if this is the case then this whole plan could be out the window. I hope not but we'll see...

Stevo81's picture

Posts: 907

Date Joined: 16/04/12

 Surely a future software

Wed, 2017-11-01 06:53

 Surely a future software update would easily resolve not recognising the PM265? The 265 series is Airmar’s top of line dual channel 1kw chirp option. Raymarine would be crazy to not have them available as a transducer option on the axiom pro

From memory it took a software update before it was available on the Garmin XSV series too. 

____________________________________________________________________________

                                   ••••••••  Electrical Contractor NOR  ••••••••

gruntre69's picture

Posts: 271

Date Joined: 15/10/16

Yes, I'm hearing you

Wed, 2017-11-01 13:27

Yes, I'm hearing you Steve.

The talk is that it is 90% sure it will work. I'm going to get back on the blower to Airmar again tonight. I had a good chat with them last night and they make a chirp box which is basically a chirp connector box that translates bare wires into a Raymarine plug. It was made specifically for the Raymarine black box range of sonar modules which have a sensing circuit as well as XID to identify transducers, and has a range of shunt resistors in it with a jumper to select the correct shunt. It lists this exact transducer and which shunt to use. (3K)

The CP470 is one of the boxes this module is made for and I've been told by Raymarine that it is indeed the CP470 module that is built into the Axiom Pro. So by deduction it could work with the Axiom too. However this chirp connectois an aftermarket part made by Airmar and the CP470 doesn't officially support the PM transducer. So at this point I have nothing concrete that the PM265 does actually work with the CP470 or the Axiom.

The data from the embeded XID Eprom is compared to a lookup table I've been told that the XID data includes the Mount type (PM). I'm unsure whether the data table within the unit is broken into columns and there is a column for the transducer element (in this case 265) and this is the column used to enable the correct perameters and allow the transducer. 

I'm trying to find out more. It's not easy getting the info. They are cagey about giving out info for officially unsupported applications, but I get the feeling that they are also keen to see there gear put into cutting edge applications..

My main problem is the RVs are big 62mm holes through the hull and I'm very hesitant to drill them on the basis that something MIGHT be supported in a future upgrade. If I can't use the PM then my configuration also excludes the use of the RV220s...

The worst part is, I thought I had this sussed and I sold the two Simrad sounders on the weekend... Now the boat has Plotter only... Ahhhge 

This is probably too much info but it could well save someone heaps of research after me...

Stevo81's picture

Posts: 907

Date Joined: 16/04/12

Yeah right, hopefully you get

Wed, 2017-11-01 18:26

Yeah right, hopefully you get a definate answer form Raymarine soon mate.

And keep the information overload coming, I love talking marine electrionics and like you said Im sure you'll save someone a shitoad of time in the future

____________________________________________________________________________

                                   ••••••••  Electrical Contractor NOR  ••••••••

Posts: 4470

Date Joined: 17/06/10

Bloody hell

Wed, 2017-11-01 02:24

With all this magic black box stuff your not hunting the Russian "widow maker sub" are you. LOL

I'm really looking forward to some screen shots when you get all this wizardry up and going.

Scotte's picture

Posts: 821

Date Joined: 07/12/06

 Can't  wait  too see the

Wed, 2017-11-01 07:32

 Can't  wait  too see the fish pics

gruntre69's picture

Posts: 271

Date Joined: 15/10/16

 My Contact at Gemeco

Wed, 2017-11-01 23:21

 My Contact at Gemeco (Airmar) could not tell me for sure on the phone that they had specifically tested the PM265ML with the chirp box and the CP470. So he looked back through the test records and since he couldn't find it he got a transducer off the shelf and wired it up through the chirp box to their test CP470 and a RM e83 screen. It accepted the transducer & was pinging away. He sent me screen shots.

This is outstanding service and it makes me feel way more confident that the axiom will also play the game. I also have the pinout wiring for the 11pin plug including the shunt resistor location so things are looking brighter as of tonight. 

Stevo81's picture

Posts: 907

Date Joined: 16/04/12

 Awsome! 

Thu, 2017-11-02 05:15

 Awsome! 

____________________________________________________________________________

                                   ••••••••  Electrical Contractor NOR  ••••••••

ranmar850's picture

Posts: 1384

Date Joined: 12/08/12

Now that is service!

Thu, 2017-11-02 08:18

 

Alan James's picture

Posts: 1767

Date Joined: 30/06/09

And not uncommon for Airmar

Thu, 2017-11-02 12:04

On another USA website I frequent when the subject of sounders / transducers comes up the guys always say to call Airmar direct as they are very helpful and know the tech stuff better than the Furuno / Garmin / Simrad and the like brand manufacturers. 

____________________________________________________________________________

                                                                          

                 

gruntre69's picture

Posts: 271

Date Joined: 15/10/16

 Still waiting for the PM265

Sat, 2017-11-04 19:46

 Still waiting for the PM265 to arrive so the lad I'm getting the axiom from is using my unit to make some videos which I'm cool with. I can't really do much until I get the 265 to varify the axiom will play with it.

Anyway here's some videos of the Axiom Pro to get the juices flowing.

Unboxing

www.youtube.com/watch

Sonar menu

www.youtube.com/watch

crano's picture

Posts: 403

Date Joined: 04/11/09

Pulled the trigger

Thu, 2017-11-09 17:16

 Orderd an axiom 9 today from moose marine.

Hope it performs as expected.

JohnF's picture

Posts: 2581

Date Joined: 07/07/10

 Sweet as......

Thu, 2017-11-09 17:35

 Sweet as......

____________________________________________________________________________

Boston Whaler 235 Conquest......getting the flogging it was built for.

JohnF's picture

Posts: 2581

Date Joined: 07/07/10

 Sweet as......

Thu, 2017-11-09 17:35

 Sweet as......

____________________________________________________________________________

Boston Whaler 235 Conquest......getting the flogging it was built for.

gruntre69's picture

Posts: 271

Date Joined: 15/10/16

 I've finally got mine coming

Fri, 2017-11-10 16:25

 I've finally got mine coming and it should be here Monday. I'm reasonably unimpressed with the Raymarine company line with no support for bar wire transducers. I still don't actually know if the Axiom Pro is going to talk to the bloody PM265 and won't know until I actually wire it up and try it. I'm confident it will work and the only other option I have it to use a B265 and sink it into a pocket or mostly into a pocket. 

Any thoughts on putting a B265 into a pocket? The only thing I can see will be different will be heat dissapation, but I don't think it would be a problem if those elements can be housed in a urathane filled bronze casting. I thought I read on the Hulltruth that someone did it with a B260 and it wasn't a problem.

gruntre69's picture

Posts: 271

Date Joined: 15/10/16

 Finally got some packages

Sat, 2017-11-18 14:49

 Finally got some packages arrive with the Axiom and the RV transducer set. I hope these transducers perform as good as they look because they sure look the business. Very substantial pair of units indeed.
I got the head unit installed and networked to the VV7 and had a good day out with the family around Rotto on Wednesday. It was an awesome day and getting the Wife and kids out for a glassy day and some good whale watching action makes the boat ownership and investment it feel a bit more worthwhile.

First impressions are pretty good. The bigger screen is way better and the brightness and viewing angle even with polarised sunnys is fantanstic. (Although I think the Simrad Evo3 7" seemed a bit brighter)
The Axiom lighthouse 3 does still seem a little raw and lacks the full flexibility of the more refined Simrad system. For example I am getting the engine Data across NM2K but I am unable to place it in the data boxes I want it in and it is restricted to the Dashboard screens. I also can't get it to send/recieve waypoints to/from the VV7 and this one is annoying because I want to use the VV7 mainly as the plotter for maps and Navigating dashboard view.

I can enter a goto on either and have it shown on both.

All this stuff is pretty minor other than the waypoints and I have the feeling that the LH3 operating system will improve dramatically with time.

The PM265 is delayed so I'm still on tender hooks until I can get all these transducers hooked up for a test..

crano's picture

Posts: 403

Date Joined: 04/11/09

VV7

Sat, 2017-11-18 15:29

Who makes the VV7. I googled it and came up with nothing.

I should recieve my axiom 9 RV on tuesday.Hanging out to give it a try.

Stevo81's picture

Posts: 907

Date Joined: 16/04/12

 Mercurywww.mercurymarine.com

Sat, 2017-11-18 15:52

 Mercury

www.mercurymarine.com/en-gb/au/gauges-and-controls/gauges-displays/vesselview/

____________________________________________________________________________

                                   ••••••••  Electrical Contractor NOR  ••••••••

gruntre69's picture

Posts: 271

Date Joined: 15/10/16

 It's basically a Simrad NSS7

Sat, 2017-11-18 19:11

 It's basically a Simrad NSS7 without the sounder Module and with a Mercury gateway built in and it's made by Simrad for Mercury. I have a gen 1 and they have continued right up to Gen 3. I believe the Gen 3 even has the sounder built in so the Gen 3 vesselview 7 is virtually the same thing as a Gen3 NNS7 although I'm not too sure if the sounder is the same power in both the units..

I had my VV7 networked to an NNS7 only via NMEA2K and the Simrad units were able to send and recieve Waypoints.

I'm hoping I'll eventually get the VW and Axiom to share waypoints.