I always think its funny when people instantly jump to the conclusion that its an alien space craft (not that you've done this Buz). Just cause its a short 3 letter acronym for UFO does not mean that a UFO (meaning alien craft) is the most likely option. (UFO technically means unknown, but most people seem to associate UFO with alien spacecraft as opposed to just leaving it as "gosh, I really dont know what it could be"). I mean, a whole alien civilisation flying across the galaxy to zoom around our atmosphere. Not so good as to avoid all sightings, but good enought to avoid any quality camera gear. Always lights at night, or really fuzzy flashes. The aliens must be smart enough to know where all the good quality video equipment is, lol.
So many other mundane options things could be, but nope, they know everything, and it cant be from earth, it must be an alien spacecraft! It can't possibly be something more likely and originating from earth!
So many explanations of "unexplained lights" go explained, but people forget this. Like the lanterns from wedding parties in the UK, or various lights around airports (guess what they are!), or near target ranges (sometimes they send up balloons with flashing lights), or meteors, or refraction in weird places (like heat haze on top of hill). There are a lot of phenomena that most people arent aware of so they just jump to ALIENS! Its funny when people say "oh, but they couldnt be aircraft, aircraft cant turn that quickly or do this that or the other" but then end up being something pretty mundane. Why does an unexplained light of some sort have to be labeled instead of just left as unknown. Why cant we just accept that we dont know everything, and leave it as that instead of have to be sure that it is some preposterous, incredulous idea like "I cant explain it. It must be aliens!". Ball lightning is something that we actually dont know a lot about, but its a really interesting if rare phenomena. Also things like wil-o-the wisps. Again, most people dont know much about these things though (for those two, including scientists, so its an interesting field). Sightings of UFO's sharply rise when venus is in view though :p
Re the video linked. I'm not quite sure why it must be "oh, well it changed course quick. I know very little on atmospheric phenomena but things can only go straight, therefore its aliens". A meteor glancing the atmosphere or breaking up may change course rapidly. Remember also that what looks like a short sharp turn may actually be a quick wide turn, but viewed at such an angle that it appears to change too quickly. E.g. a plane at a distance flying at you, then turning 90 degrees will look like a stationary light that suddenly starts moving quickly (and quicker than most people assume a "earthly" light could be still then instantly move so quickly).
What I also find interesting is that if you look at countries in Europe (or other areas with lots of countries close by), you find that for some countries, the number of UFO sightings (i.e. implied aliens), sharply increases across a country border. So somehow aliens seem to know the precise location of our arbitrary country lines, and stick to one side, lol. Of course, another explanation is that identifying sightings as being aliens instead of "huh, well, thats weird" seems to be a cultural thing. If it were really aliens, why would it vary across countries? The other one is that for people who say they have come into contact with aliens, strangely enough, the descriptions mostly match the aliens presented in the media that they watch :p. As depictions in movies/tv/etc changes, the reported sightings change to match. So which follows which ;)
Oh how I wish it were true though. Would be the greatest discovery of all time to find aliens!
As for creepy stuff, there certainly are some interesting stories of big cats or other big animals prowling around various areas. I've got the heebies once or twice being out in the bush at night.
Just ask ol' Sherbie about the paranormal experiences!
After sherbies experience with a big cat, I've read deeply into the phenomenon about the big cats of Australia, and I have to tell you, it is seriously interesting. I am unconvinced that all the sightings are feral cats,Thylacines (in the case of Nannup), or even Thylaceleos (marsupial lions). There has to be something else out there that cameras have not captured. The only 'big cat' captured in Australia, was by a bloke in the Blue Mountains, and the sample came back as 'F. Catus', which is the typical house cat, just gone feral at 2m long ans a metre high. There are too many reported sightings to go unnoticed. The sightings in Victoria and NSW are ten times as common as over here - because of the intense farming expanses. They are literally lolly shops for big cats.
One explanation is that the American Navy had Pumas (allegedly) as mascots for their ships, and when they grew too big on trips to australia, they would let them go into the wild. Now, i'm not sure how feasable this actually is, because the chance of one of these Pumas mating with another larger, possibly feral cat, in my opinion, is low. Another well documented explanation is that their was a travelling circus going around australia in the 50's, and one of the trains carrying animals derailed, injuring the animals. All the animals had to be put down, except for 4 Pumas/Jaguars, which where nowhere to be found. Did these animals survive, or where they too injured, like the other animals, they died? My guess is as good as yours.
The terrain of the blue mountains is the perfect country for them - caves and rocky outcrops, surrounded by vast expanses of trees, and farms. The evidence for these animals is overwhelming. I would post some pictures of sheep and kangaroo carcasses, which have been clearly killed and eaten by something bigger than the average wild dog or feral cat, But i wouldn't want to upset the softcocks who dont wan't to see blood and guts.
anyway, just my two cents. Keen to hear if anyone else has had any experiences with big cats. Cheers.
Would like to see some of those pics if you dont mind sharing/emailing them to me Leemo? My mate has some pics of sheep which have had the same happen to them down around the Margaret River region, but they are only film pics, so not digital and hence live in his farm photo album. Will hit him up about scanning them next time i a down there though.
The main pic he showed me that freaked me out a bit was of a sheep carcass about 5m up a Blackbutt tree with its head missing and lots of tear marks in the body. IIRC photo was taken was around 1997 so a few years back now. Thats the thing that i found strange with all his pics that in nearly all of them the sheep had their heads missing, but most of the body was left intact??? I would have thought a large predator would probably want the meat of the main body?
My question here, is, what eats foxes? or more accurately, what does this to any animal, leaving the rest of it? Just like its been stripped completely off one side.
For those playing at home, below is the photo of the big feral cat caught in 2005 by Kurt Engel
Oh, and here is another I just found. Apparently it is from WA. Tested as F. Cattus aswell - a very big tabby. haha.
and this shows what is presumably a dogs kill - note the only area touched is the back end - none of the body has been torn open, which is a trait of a big cat
Thanks to Big Cats Victoria for the use of the last photo ^^
Looking at the bottom pic of the goat i would say i agree with wild dogs or Dingo crossbreeds. They are causing a massive problem out towards the goldfields apparently.
The pic of the fox would be hard to guess. If it was already dead it could have been other foxes. Wild dogs would have torn it more to bits. What ever started to have a chew on the fox probably wasnt large and was probably eating alone as it seems to have being 'picked' at very merticulously. Not the usual rip, tear and eat as fast as you can that wild dogs and dingos seem to do alot of the time.
They are some BIG pussy cats. I remember at one of the Pig and Pussy hunts near the Daly River in the N.T one year they got a feral cat that weighed in around 15kg i think. Some big whiskers around.
haha, I left majority of the pics out for that exact reason... which is a bit unfortunate, because those gory ones are the best pictures! I have one here, also from Big Cats Victoria, That shows the bite of a cat on a sheep hung from a tree.
Of course, these are all 'possibles', and you can never really know what it was, just speculation.... which is what annoys me about this facette of Cryptozoology.
How's the shot with the bike. And you thought some fishermen had long arms :p The guy dumped the body of course, rather than bring it to any scientists. And he brought it back to a house, but there are no photos with the cat next to a fixed object for scale? (even just laying on the floor with a tinny next to it). He did keep the tail (but not including any vertebrae) and as mentioned, the DNA showed it was a F. catus. However, even with the exaggerated perspective photos it was a big moggy. Edit 2: I came across some info that a Dr Keith Hart from Rural Lands Protections Board, managed to examine the partially decomposed body of the Kurt Engel cat but the length came a lot shorter than most people had assumed previously (or had been claimed...). 4' total length though (to tip of tail), so it was still about as big as the biggest domestic cats (record main coon). So it was still a biiiig cat. But perhaps just a little exaggerated from puma size... (see the photos...)
If the 15kg figure is correct for a cat, then thats one big cat (edit: yep, and from WA too). Most people are use to seeing small domestic cats, so a large one can seem so large that "it can be a just a feral cat". Theres a blog I ran across once (i'll see if I can find it) where it showed that from the arch of the back, you could tell it was not a large cat species, but rather a large feral car (F. catus = same species as domestic cat).
Keep in mind, that when you see carcass kills, it doesnt mean that an animal did that one pass. A large animal with large wounds, may have been sick, attacked by a rather large (but not abnormal) cat, then most of the damage done after the kill. Birds, and other small creatures can eat out a fair bit of a carcass and make it seem worse. Just gotta remember that all the injuries didnt have to happen at once, and it didnt necessarily have to be a perfectly healthy animal to start with (maybe a single attack, then the cat stalked it until it was weak?). The ones with carcasses in trees however is interesting. As is the scraping marks. If a cat, it doesnt mean its not a feral cat though. Wish I could read those captions. Note that although dingos/dogs have different teeth to cats, they still have large canines and the smaller front teeth (obviously the rear of their jaw is quite different). The canines are set further back, but a scraping action may create a similar pattern in some situations. Although the pic pretty much looks like a cats mark, not a dog/dingo. It doesnt mean the cat killed the animal however. Pity theres no scale though.
I have a picture I collected a year or so ago from a website, that shows a Jersey Cow with maul marks down its back and sides. The claw marks are quite long, like deep scratches. There are also a few rough patches along the back. Quite interesting, as the cow is still alive, standing in the pictures, as If nothing is wrong. Ill dig up the photo on my home PC when I get home from work tonight.
That is true, Matt. As you said, the ones stuck up in trees, metres off the ground are really interesting,because usually the trees have gouge marks in them aswell. There was a game camera set up in the Grampians a few years back, facing a tree, that had a roadkill kangaroo/other bait cable tied to it. When they came back in the morning, the bait was gone, cable ties laying around the floor, and gouge marks into the back of the tree, Amazingly, the predator didn't trigger the camera's motion sensor, so no footage was taken - even when the animal moved directly in front of the camera. It could be that is was faulty equipment, or a whole manner of other explanations, but it is something worth noting.
After a weekend at the Horsam (Vic) Agricultural show, we had a stand showing Hay and other ag tools. Driving home to SA, traveling at night, we came around a corner in the road, and witnessed an amazing sight. From the heavens hung red velvet curtains, reaching thousands of Km's into the sky, hundreds of km's long. The most wonderful Aurora in the night sky. now thats a UFO worth seeing.
Wow you actually got to see and Aurora Australis from mainland Oz!!!!!! thats awesome. I have only heard of a few cases of people actually seeing it from the mainland and even then usually on the distant horizon!
I saw it one morning when I was living in Pickering Brook about 17 years ago. It was something to see. I remember a green/ red curtain and it was early in the morning.
What made me think of it was the guy who was with me wanted to get out of the ute and run, thinking it was an attack on earth by alians. However after simmering down, we both could appreciate the spectical. What got me was the size of the curtains. However like most things it was a once in a life time experience.
hlokk
Posts: 4292
Date Joined: 04/04/08
I always think its funny when
I always think its funny when people instantly jump to the conclusion that its an alien space craft (not that you've done this Buz). Just cause its a short 3 letter acronym for UFO does not mean that a UFO (meaning alien craft) is the most likely option. (UFO technically means unknown, but most people seem to associate UFO with alien spacecraft as opposed to just leaving it as "gosh, I really dont know what it could be"). I mean, a whole alien civilisation flying across the galaxy to zoom around our atmosphere. Not so good as to avoid all sightings, but good enought to avoid any quality camera gear. Always lights at night, or really fuzzy flashes. The aliens must be smart enough to know where all the good quality video equipment is, lol.
So many other mundane options things could be, but nope, they know everything, and it cant be from earth, it must be an alien spacecraft! It can't possibly be something more likely and originating from earth!
So many explanations of "unexplained lights" go explained, but people forget this. Like the lanterns from wedding parties in the UK, or various lights around airports (guess what they are!), or near target ranges (sometimes they send up balloons with flashing lights), or meteors, or refraction in weird places (like heat haze on top of hill). There are a lot of phenomena that most people arent aware of so they just jump to ALIENS! Its funny when people say "oh, but they couldnt be aircraft, aircraft cant turn that quickly or do this that or the other" but then end up being something pretty mundane. Why does an unexplained light of some sort have to be labeled instead of just left as unknown. Why cant we just accept that we dont know everything, and leave it as that instead of have to be sure that it is some preposterous, incredulous idea like "I cant explain it. It must be aliens!". Ball lightning is something that we actually dont know a lot about, but its a really interesting if rare phenomena. Also things like wil-o-the wisps. Again, most people dont know much about these things though (for those two, including scientists, so its an interesting field). Sightings of UFO's sharply rise when venus is in view though :p
Re the video linked. I'm not quite sure why it must be "oh, well it changed course quick. I know very little on atmospheric phenomena but things can only go straight, therefore its aliens". A meteor glancing the atmosphere or breaking up may change course rapidly. Remember also that what looks like a short sharp turn may actually be a quick wide turn, but viewed at such an angle that it appears to change too quickly. E.g. a plane at a distance flying at you, then turning 90 degrees will look like a stationary light that suddenly starts moving quickly (and quicker than most people assume a "earthly" light could be still then instantly move so quickly).
What I also find interesting is that if you look at countries in Europe (or other areas with lots of countries close by), you find that for some countries, the number of UFO sightings (i.e. implied aliens), sharply increases across a country border. So somehow aliens seem to know the precise location of our arbitrary country lines, and stick to one side, lol. Of course, another explanation is that identifying sightings as being aliens instead of "huh, well, thats weird" seems to be a cultural thing. If it were really aliens, why would it vary across countries? The other one is that for people who say they have come into contact with aliens, strangely enough, the descriptions mostly match the aliens presented in the media that they watch :p. As depictions in movies/tv/etc changes, the reported sightings change to match. So which follows which ;)
Oh how I wish it were true though. Would be the greatest discovery of all time to find aliens!
As for creepy stuff, there certainly are some interesting stories of big cats or other big animals prowling around various areas. I've got the heebies once or twice being out in the bush at night.
This is great!:
Leemo
Posts: 3712
Date Joined: 22/02/07
The only answer
bludgin' since 94'
EL SYD
Posts: 599
Date Joined: 16/08/10
bugger me fellas, i got to
bugger me fellas, i got to do my road trip this coming weekend, and now youve got the whole blair witch/ wolf creek thing happening in my head now
Leemo
Posts: 3712
Date Joined: 22/02/07
Just ask ol' Sherbie about
Just ask ol' Sherbie about the paranormal experiences!
After sherbies experience with a big cat, I've read deeply into the phenomenon about the big cats of Australia, and I have to tell you, it is seriously interesting. I am unconvinced that all the sightings are feral cats,Thylacines (in the case of Nannup), or even Thylaceleos (marsupial lions). There has to be something else out there that cameras have not captured. The only 'big cat' captured in Australia, was by a bloke in the Blue Mountains, and the sample came back as 'F. Catus', which is the typical house cat, just gone feral at 2m long ans a metre high. There are too many reported sightings to go unnoticed. The sightings in Victoria and NSW are ten times as common as over here - because of the intense farming expanses. They are literally lolly shops for big cats.
One explanation is that the American Navy had Pumas (allegedly) as mascots for their ships, and when they grew too big on trips to australia, they would let them go into the wild. Now, i'm not sure how feasable this actually is, because the chance of one of these Pumas mating with another larger, possibly feral cat, in my opinion, is low. Another well documented explanation is that their was a travelling circus going around australia in the 50's, and one of the trains carrying animals derailed, injuring the animals. All the animals had to be put down, except for 4 Pumas/Jaguars, which where nowhere to be found. Did these animals survive, or where they too injured, like the other animals, they died? My guess is as good as yours.
The terrain of the blue mountains is the perfect country for them - caves and rocky outcrops, surrounded by vast expanses of trees, and farms. The evidence for these animals is overwhelming. I would post some pictures of sheep and kangaroo carcasses, which have been clearly killed and eaten by something bigger than the average wild dog or feral cat, But i wouldn't want to upset the softcocks who dont wan't to see blood and guts.
anyway, just my two cents. Keen to hear if anyone else has had any experiences with big cats.
Cheers.
bludgin' since 94'
Buz
Posts: 1555
Date Joined: 28/08/07
Would like to see some
Would like to see some of those pics if you dont mind sharing/emailing them to me Leemo? My mate has some pics of sheep which have had the same happen to them down around the Margaret River region, but they are only film pics, so not digital and hence live in his farm photo album. Will hit him up about scanning them next time i a down there though.
The main pic he showed me that freaked me out a bit was of a sheep carcass about 5m up a Blackbutt tree with its head missing and lots of tear marks in the body. IIRC photo was taken was around 1997 so a few years back now. Thats the thing that i found strange with all his pics that in nearly all of them the sheep had their heads missing, but most of the body was left intact??? I would have thought a large predator would probably want the meat of the main body?
Leemo
Posts: 3712
Date Joined: 22/02/07
GORE WARNING
My question here, is, what eats foxes? or more accurately, what does this to any animal, leaving the rest of it? Just like its been stripped completely off one side.
For those playing at home, below is the photo of the big feral cat caught in 2005 by Kurt Engel
Oh, and here is another I just found. Apparently it is from WA. Tested as F. Cattus aswell - a very big tabby. haha.
and this shows what is presumably a dogs kill - note the only area touched is the back end - none of the body has been torn open, which is a trait of a big cat
Thanks to Big Cats Victoria for the use of the last photo ^^
bludgin' since 94'
Buz
Posts: 1555
Date Joined: 28/08/07
Prepare for an onslaught of
Prepare for an onslaught of words Leemo!!!!!!!!
Dont say i didnt tell you to email them to me ;)
Looking at the bottom pic of the goat i would say i agree with wild dogs or Dingo crossbreeds. They are causing a massive problem out towards the goldfields apparently.
The pic of the fox would be hard to guess. If it was already dead it could have been other foxes. Wild dogs would have torn it more to bits. What ever started to have a chew on the fox probably wasnt large and was probably eating alone as it seems to have being 'picked' at very merticulously. Not the usual rip, tear and eat as fast as you can that wild dogs and dingos seem to do alot of the time.
They are some BIG pussy cats. I remember at one of the Pig and Pussy hunts near the Daly River in the N.T one year they got a feral cat that weighed in around 15kg i think. Some big whiskers around.
Leemo
Posts: 3712
Date Joined: 22/02/07
haha, I left majority of the
haha, I left majority of the pics out for that exact reason... which is a bit unfortunate, because those gory ones are the best pictures! I have one here, also from Big Cats Victoria, That shows the bite of a cat on a sheep hung from a tree.
Of course, these are all 'possibles', and you can never really know what it was, just speculation.... which is what annoys me about this facette of Cryptozoology.
bludgin' since 94'
3315B
Posts: 55
Date Joined: 18/02/11
First photo -- eagles
Wedge tails love a feed of Fox.
ernie
Buz
Posts: 1555
Date Joined: 28/08/07
Ah brids, definitly make
Ah brids, definitly makes sense. Num num num :)
Nothing like a bit of carrion for them.
hlokk
Posts: 4292
Date Joined: 04/04/08
How's the shot with the bike.
How's the shot with the bike. And you thought some fishermen had long arms :p The guy dumped the body of course, rather than bring it to any scientists. And he brought it back to a house, but there are no photos with the cat next to a fixed object for scale? (even just laying on the floor with a tinny next to it). He did keep the tail (but not including any vertebrae) and as mentioned, the DNA showed it was a F. catus. However, even with the exaggerated perspective photos it was a big moggy. Edit 2: I came across some info that a Dr Keith Hart from Rural Lands Protections Board, managed to examine the partially decomposed body of the Kurt Engel cat but the length came a lot shorter than most people had assumed previously (or had been claimed...). 4' total length though (to tip of tail), so it was still about as big as the biggest domestic cats (record main coon). So it was still a biiiig cat. But perhaps just a little exaggerated from puma size... (see the photos...)
If the 15kg figure is correct for a cat, then thats one big cat (edit: yep, and from WA too). Most people are use to seeing small domestic cats, so a large one can seem so large that "it can be a just a feral cat". Theres a blog I ran across once (i'll see if I can find it) where it showed that from the arch of the back, you could tell it was not a large cat species, but rather a large feral car (F. catus = same species as domestic cat).
Keep in mind, that when you see carcass kills, it doesnt mean that an animal did that one pass. A large animal with large wounds, may have been sick, attacked by a rather large (but not abnormal) cat, then most of the damage done after the kill. Birds, and other small creatures can eat out a fair bit of a carcass and make it seem worse. Just gotta remember that all the injuries didnt have to happen at once, and it didnt necessarily have to be a perfectly healthy animal to start with (maybe a single attack, then the cat stalked it until it was weak?). The ones with carcasses in trees however is interesting. As is the scraping marks. If a cat, it doesnt mean its not a feral cat though. Wish I could read those captions. Note that although dingos/dogs have different teeth to cats, they still have large canines and the smaller front teeth (obviously the rear of their jaw is quite different). The canines are set further back, but a scraping action may create a similar pattern in some situations. Although the pic pretty much looks like a cats mark, not a dog/dingo. It doesnt mean the cat killed the animal however. Pity theres no scale though.
Leemo
Posts: 3712
Date Joined: 22/02/07
I have a picture I collected
I have a picture I collected a year or so ago from a website, that shows a Jersey Cow with maul marks down its back and sides. The claw marks are quite long, like deep scratches. There are also a few rough patches along the back. Quite interesting, as the cow is still alive, standing in the pictures, as If nothing is wrong.
Ill dig up the photo on my home PC when I get home from work tonight.
That is true, Matt. As you said, the ones stuck up in trees, metres off the ground are really interesting,because usually the trees have gouge marks in them aswell. There was a game camera set up in the Grampians a few years back, facing a tree, that had a roadkill kangaroo/other bait cable tied to it. When they came back in the morning, the bait was gone, cable ties laying around the floor, and gouge marks into the back of the tree, Amazingly, the predator didn't trigger the camera's motion sensor, so no footage was taken - even when the animal moved directly in front of the camera. It could be that is was faulty equipment, or a whole manner of other explanations, but it is something worth noting.
bludgin' since 94'
pale ale
Posts: 1755
Date Joined: 02/01/10
Softcocks!!!
Softcocks!!!
iana
Posts: 652
Date Joined: 21/09/09
The spectical I have seen.
After a weekend at the Horsam (Vic) Agricultural show, we had a stand showing Hay and other ag tools. Driving home to SA, traveling at night, we came around a corner in the road, and witnessed an amazing sight. From the heavens hung red velvet curtains, reaching thousands of Km's into the sky, hundreds of km's long. The most wonderful Aurora in the night sky. now thats a UFO worth seeing.
Buz
Posts: 1555
Date Joined: 28/08/07
Wow you actually got to see
Wow you actually got to see and Aurora Australis from mainland Oz!!!!!! thats awesome. I have only heard of a few cases of people actually seeing it from the mainland and even then usually on the distant horizon!
Would have definitly been captivating.
sea-kem
Posts: 15021
Date Joined: 30/11/09
I saw it one morning when I
I saw it one morning when I was living in Pickering Brook about 17 years ago. It was something to see. I remember a green/ red curtain and it was early in the morning.
Love the West!
Buz
Posts: 1555
Date Joined: 28/08/07
Now thats just rubbing it
Now thats just rubbing it in :) hahaha.
Hoping i might get to see it if i one day get down to Tierra Del Fuego.
Or just cop out and head north to see Aurora Borealis instead :)
iana
Posts: 652
Date Joined: 21/09/09
Yes Truely amazing, but had no camera.
What made me think of it was the guy who was with me wanted to get out of the ute and run, thinking it was an attack on earth by alians. However after simmering down, we both could appreciate the spectical. What got me was the size of the curtains. However like most things it was a once in a life time experience.