Plague of baby dhueys

 I fish and dive  28 to 35m out of Bunbury and this year we have been seeing and carching huge numbers of babies.Some of them are tiny.Last week we would have caught 20 or more before we got our 2 size ones.

Is it the same in Mandurah and perth.Hope its not because we have caught all the big ones.


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Unfortunately, I recon the

Sun, 2015-03-22 20:53

Unfortunately, I recon the stocks of size dhuies is reducing, which means overfishing....I think the undersize rules need to be reviewed as well.

Nothing against you at all, as we have all probably done similar by caching and releasing a lot of undersized to get our two size, but even if the absolute best release method is used, I doubt half of the 20 released undersized dhuies would survive. Not good for the future.

I don't have a good solution........any ideas?

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GGs's picture

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Must have posted at the same

Sun, 2015-03-22 21:00

Must have posted at the same time with completely opposite opinions haha.

While I hope what I said is correct you make a very good point... And much more time on the water which I would say accounts for a lot. 

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Stocks

Sun, 2015-03-22 20:54

My first guess would be that the stocks are on the rise after all the restrictions of late. Hence not a lack of big fish more that breeders are having the chance to reproduce and there are more hatchings around. 

It could be a good indication for the years to come if there are plenty on juvies around.

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 Mate I hope you're right

Sun, 2015-03-22 21:11

 Mate I hope you're right

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JohnF's picture

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Fair call, I guess thats

Sun, 2015-03-22 20:56

Fair call, I guess thats another take.

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 to add to that, i have seen

Sun, 2015-03-22 21:13

 to add to that, i have seen a lot of big bucks this year on various sites, also caught a lot of dhu's just under or on the limit always release fish on or just above legal fearing shrinkage. hope that translates to a better season to come 

GGs's picture

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Yep I agree have noticed a

Sun, 2015-03-22 21:24

Yep I agree have noticed a lot of big males being caught. That photo posted this morning of a 20+kg buck caught off the cape was a monster.

I fish mainly off Cape nat and the amount of 45-50cm dhus around is up from last year.

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 We've been catching a lot of

Sun, 2015-03-22 21:22

 We've been catching a lot of big bucks this year. The juvies have been mostly in close shallow water. 

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Undersize

Mon, 2015-03-23 05:28

 Fishing north of river we are having the same senario. I'm thinking it has to do with the restrictions working.

I do disagree with the comment of half the fish dying. When fisheries did the original research on release weights they caught, tagged and released a stack of Dhuies from real shallow to quite deep. Over 50m i think. I will try to find the original report to confirm that. 

Of all the tagged fish i beleive over 80% were reported as recaught. Given natural predators and deaths that is a pretty damn high survival rate.

Merv

 

Facts checked: Sorry i was wrong.

Morality of G.hebraicum (Dhu) increased with depth of capture from 21% at 0-14m to 86% at 45-59m. Overall 51% of all G.hebraicum caught in the experiment died. Most deaths (38.4%) were attributed to barotraums while the remainder (13,2%) was caused by damage by hooks.

Should have had that second coffee before commenting hey.

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but all those dhuies were

Mon, 2015-03-23 06:18

 Released into cages so they could be observed not just let go so they didnt get true results of survival rates imo they would be pretty stressed out being stuck in a cage

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Correct

Mon, 2015-03-23 06:39

 But it is the only data we have to go on.

I hope the release survival rate is higher as ATM we are releasing heaps.

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Well managed fishery in the West (my 20c worth)

Mon, 2015-03-23 07:10

 A couple of seasons back we seemed to always be getting undersized Dhui's with just the regular gun fishermen pulling in legal size fish.  This year has (in my experience) seen the most legal Dhui's caught, with most people I know getting one or two, and a few guns cleaning up every time they head out.  We've caught good size fish from the 30 metre mark out to 49 metres (didn't have to go deeper to get good fish).  I also know of others fishing 8-15 metres and catching good size Dhui's.

 

There's a better general culture around looking after fish and returning them, in not that far back that release weights were made compulsory and like most it me a few go before getting the technique right, seems to work ok now.

At the the same time we've had an absolute stonker of a cray season, and from all accounts it will be as good or better for the next two years.  My theory is that with the regular demersal ban, bag limits and the change to the crayfish quota system the stocks are increasing.  There's more Cray's, more Dhui's and more people fishing, and most seem to be able to get fish on a good day.  The bans and bag limits appear to me to be working to maintain a sustainable stock. 

Now if someone can tell me why all the crabs have disappeared from Warnbro sound............

 

cheers

G

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ranmar850's picture

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I fear for released jewies

Mon, 2015-03-23 07:19

 Some years ago up here, a local bloke got a big commercial aquarium going . He had permits to keep jewies, but had a VERY hard time getting any to survive. At first, he was landing them onto sponge rubber, as the pro's do, to limit damge. They all died in the aquarium. He then tried a few other methods, minimum contact and handling, they all died in the aquarium. Fished as shallow as they could, mostly around the Abrolhos. Landing directly into a big tank and unhooking them there, had, if I recall correctly, the highest survival rate, but it was not good. But, get this--he would put a fish into the aquarium, it would appear fine for a few days, then suddenly its eyes would pop out, a la severe barotauma, and it would go belly up and die. There must have been damage which did not immediatley manifest itself, but ultimately killed them.

Fiusheries NT have some good videos on differing survival rates among golden snapper caught from different depths. I can't recall the exact stats, but survival likelihood would decrease markedly with depth. due to their vulnerability to predators. I don't think stress related to them being in a cage, as a previous poster suggested, is the factor to take into consideration--more the fact that the fish are obviously sluggish and disorientated, and really attracting the attention of sharks. if you can find the video on Youtube, have a look and you will see what I mean.

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one thing I would have

Mon, 2015-03-23 08:09

one thing I would have thought is that putting them into an aquarium would not allow them to re-equalise from the depth they came out of.

Bit like a diver who needs to go into a decompression chamber, needs to go back to the depths he was in.

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You may find that an aquarium

Mon, 2015-03-23 07:56

You may find that an aquarium can not replicate water pressure and this would account for most of the deaths. The water pressure at 10m is roughly 1 atmosphere (14.7psi). That's enough to keep his eyeballs in his head.

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im with GGs, just got back

Mon, 2015-03-23 08:06

im with GGs, just got back from a few days down south, and we caught something like 35 dhu's in 15-25m of water all on jigs and all healthy as can be, most being undersized and quite a few well under around the 30cm mark.

Great signs in my opinion, I think release methods are working, and at least there are measures in place now and proven techniques. Proof is shown with some people (And some on here) who tag fish and recapture them

All the fish we caught down south were released without release weight and all swam back down. Pretty easy to tell you have a small dhu on early in the fight and taking it real easy is the best method in my opinion.

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As mentioned it definitely

Mon, 2015-03-23 10:27

As mentioned it definitely seems people are taking better care of fish that are being released.

We do the same with the little dhus down there by giving them a few decompression stops on the way up and taking it slow. Hopefully it makes a big difference.

Now if only we could find pinks in the same numbers around that area. We have struggled to find them bigtime this year.

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All the big dhus well

Mon, 2015-03-23 08:22

All the big dhus well offshore this time of year..................................

ranmar850's picture

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Point taken

Mon, 2015-03-23 09:13

 The 2 metres may not have been enough--some did survive obviuosly, and I know there are tag recaptures which indicate some do survive. If I hook something small, i always pull it up slowly,in case it is a jewie, vs some who feel the need to rip them up as fast as they can. Before  release weights were around, I used to hook them in the thin skin at the back of the gill plate, and carefully lower them back down--give it a jerk when the sinker touched bottom. Certainly worked better than just chicking them over and watching them float away, bemoaning the fact that you couldn't keep them  To the younger fishermen, people actually did this, believe it or not. Glad those days are gone.

Back to the survival rates vs depth thing--those golden snapper were in the tropics, where to show any weakness is instant death--hopefully any dazed, sick and disoriented jewies have a chance in the cooler water.

Found the one on golden snapper, states that they felt anything caught from over 10 metres had little chance.Link below, worth watching. There is also internal damage which is not apparent . Sometimes ya just gotta stop fishing, no matter how much fun you arer having

 

www.youtube.com/watch

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Tree huggers

Mon, 2015-03-23 11:46

I hope the tree huggers read this thread. It proves once again how informed rec fishers are of their fishery and how we all strive to protect it for the future. Awesome conversation lads. On a controversial note is it time to introduce a maximum size for dhueis ?

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Interesting point about a max

Mon, 2015-03-23 12:51

Interesting point about a max size like sharkbay snapper.

I would have no objection to it as i have always said that if i catch a 20+kg dhu i would release it because of its age and the likelyhood of it being a breeder. Im yet to catch one over 13kg but i personally think dhu is over rated for its eating quality so would rather take a 60-80cm fish anyway.

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 You would think a 20kg banga

Mon, 2015-03-23 17:03

 You would think a 20kg banga would almost fight itself to death not sure how release would go

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Very true all the bigger

Mon, 2015-03-23 19:29

Very true all the bigger models I have seen caught look pretty knackered when they float to the top after the initial fight.

More wishful thinking I suppose but it would be awesome to see a big dhu released healthy. 

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 jump over and swim him down 

Mon, 2015-03-23 19:32

 jump over and swim him down 

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[There is also internal

Mon, 2015-03-23 12:34

[There is also internal damage which is not apparent . Sometimes ya just gotta stop fishing, no matter how much fun you arer having]

ranmar , totally agree with the above mate

the education has improved about slow retrieve and release procedures etc all are better now , thats agiven ,
however the key thing is dhufish biology/science to date shows this single species is highly vulnerable to catch and release mortality ,

better to move on or stop demersal fishing rather than take the risk

personally i think the high numbers of small dhuies is a good sign after what ? 6 years of changed management on demersals , especially on the inshore reef systems

hezzy

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deep

Mon, 2015-03-23 19:49

 head out to 60 m heaps big ones out there

JohnF's picture

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We have applied an unofficial

Mon, 2015-03-23 20:48

We have applied an unofficial 850mm dhu upper size limit for the past few years, and have released a fair few plus 900mm fish, but as mentioned above, on light gear (PE2), a few of the big ones have fought so hard they died on the deck before we have had a chance to release. To be honest, I find it pretty sad to see a +20 year old magnificent animal die for our angling pleasure, but I guess it is an inconvenient side effect of our angling addiction. About all you can do is always eat what we kill and treat the fish with as much respect as possible.

Dhuies are no where near as robust as snapper. We have released snapper from 100 m and they look perfect (bet they have a stinking headache though....).

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 Just out of left field ..

Mon, 2015-03-23 21:39

 Just out of left field .. could it also be argued that perhaps keeping the first two dhus regardless of size would be a better option ? 

eg : rather than catching and releasing a dozen or so undersize models from different spots that may or may not survive the release . 

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 I was thinking the exact

Mon, 2015-03-23 21:52

 I was thinking the exact same thing. Woudn't it be better to keep a slightly undersize one than kill another 5 trying to catch a size one?

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 Yeah I was thinking similar

Mon, 2015-03-23 21:57

 Yeah I was thinking similar but maybe lower size limits to 40cm or so with same bag limit and that should theoretically reduce the damage

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what would you get off a 40cm

Tue, 2015-03-24 08:47

fish, take it up to 60cm, and fish responsibly so they have a chance,what happens to all those sambos skull dragged up or put under the lemon tree, or weighed in in fishing comps

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GGs's picture

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Reducing the size limit to

Tue, 2015-03-24 16:13

Reducing the size limit to 40cm would be detrimental to stocks bigtime.

As i said before we have caught heaps of dhuies in the 45-50cm range this year. If 40cm was legal size we could have kept any of these and even if the survival rate of released fish is <60% (ballpark figure) this is better than taking smaller fish and as sea-kem said people are only going to upgrade anyway.

I think increasing the size limit slightly and potentially having a maximum limit would be the way to go but thats only going to start another sh!t fight.

Hopefully the tightening of the rules over the last few years will start to show its hand a there will be good seasons on the way.

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 People will still upsize :( 

Mon, 2015-03-23 22:06

 People will still upsize :( 

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 Dead right Andy,bring the

Tue, 2015-03-24 14:16

 Dead right Andy,bring the min size up to 650 then you at least get a decent feed.I fish for a feed,yeah its fun but i cant afford to buy the stuff so if it s size it goes in the kill tank. Usually once i bag out we downsize our gear and fish for KG's and Flatties,snapper in the winter.

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 Its a good sign for the

Thu, 2015-03-26 06:51

 Its a good sign for the future

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Hmm, Maybe it's their little

Sat, 2015-03-28 23:05

Hmm,

Maybe it's their little migratory sanctuary now???

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