rigging for trolling for macks
Hi all,
Will be doing some trollign for pelagics in the near future and asking for advice on the rigging.
I run 25lb braid on overhead reels ( pflueger, shimano - love to get a marquesa 16) and I understadn that the lack of stetch in the braid can be a disadvantage when trolling for pelagics as that means more lsot fish from hooks being pulled ( ? or gear being pulled overboard
).
I have a fluorocarbon leader tied to my braid - usually slim beauty to bimini twist int eh braid - about 2 rod lengths.
I would like to get opinions as to whether this f/c leader has sufficiant stretch to overcome the problems associated with braid for trolling?
I am suspecting that it is not adequate and that I may need to have a mono leader of say 40pound of say 20 metres tied to braid on reel side and to wire swivel -> wire trace on lure side.
New to this style of fishing ( usually bottom bouncing or floaters) so thankfule for any pointers.
Separate question: when underspoooling the braid with mono, do you use mono the same poundage as the braid or the same diameter, or "whatever"?
Thanks
terboz123
Posts: 1358
Date Joined: 13/04/11
ok.....once i read trolling
ok.....
once i read trolling for macks.
Here is the deal....it doesnt matter what fluro carbon leader you have .....100LB though is enough. You need about a 3/4 meter of solled strand wire. Using the haymaker or hawywire (cant remember what it is)......knot. Do not use multiple strand.
That is the key to landing macks in metro. the wire. I understand some people may so no and in a way i agree with them up north...it can shy away other species but if your specifically targetening metro macks its essentail.
And also run witch doctor teasers ;)
a hard days fishing still beats work
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GCGFC membertrymyluck
Posts: 908
Date Joined: 06/05/12
yep as above and keep your
yep as above and keep your wire leaders short this was a big mistake when I first targeted mackies. If there are others around they will bite your top swivel, and keeping the leader short seems to help with this. About 40cm is good. You can see how the haywire twist is done from the internet im sure, once you get the hang of it ,its easy.
Starbug
Posts: 563
Date Joined: 27/08/09
Run a mono leader....6m and
Run a mono leader....6m and around 100lb then a coastlock swivel and about 40cm of wire to your lure. The mono will give you a little spring in you system.
Also run your reels with just enough drag to prevent line paying our while trolling. This will prevent the hooks pulling with the lack of elasticity in your braid setup.
unhurry
Posts: 236
Date Joined: 23/10/12
mono leader
Hey Starbug, do you use fluorocarbon for the mono leader? I know there is less stretch in f/c than nylon.
Others' opinion on this?
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
I went away from wire. I run
I went away from wire. I run a 4m leeder 100-150lb Ihave not been bitten of yet .
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unhurry
Posts: 236
Date Joined: 23/10/12
main line
being braid or mono PaulG?
JohnF
Posts: 2836
Date Joined: 07/07/10
Yep, I run 60 lb mono leader,
Yep, I run 60 lb mono leader, 10 kg mono main line. Only go wire if you get bitten off.
Boston Whaler 235 Conquest......getting the flogging it was built for.
dkonig82
Posts: 2091
Date Joined: 06/07/10
isn't it too late for the
isn't it too late for the wire once you've been bitten off? :-)
When asked by a non-fisherman 'how many fishing rods do you really need?' the correct answer is either:
n+1 (where n is the number of fishing rods you currently own); or
n-1 (where n is the number of fishing rods which would cause your significant other to dump you.
unhurry
Posts: 236
Date Joined: 23/10/12
great
Great site this - a wealth of knowledge available and a company of fisherfolk who are willing to share; all much appreciated.
Interesting to see the different approaches - whenever there is more than one way of successfully doing something it means that there is no "right way" and I thank those who have learned through experience and shared.
Seems that a 6 metre length of mono is sufficiant for a shock - absorbing leader and then whether to wire or not is optional depending on the bite on the day.
Further question: swivels - does anybody NOT use a swivel when trolling? I would think that the rig would be:
main line (braid) --- tied to mono leader --- swivel ---- ( wire of used) or ( split ring ) to lure?
Thanks to all
West Coast
Posts: 331
Date Joined: 10/12/07
Just keep it simple.
People have all different set ups, so I suppose it is what ever works for you. I keep it real simple. About a rod length of 100-150lb mono straight on to the lure. No wire, no swivels. Works fine metro and never been bitten off. Lack of stretch doesn't seem to be an issue.
unhurry
Posts: 236
Date Joined: 23/10/12
no swivel
West Coast, do you use overhead or spinnign reel when trolling for macks?
And just to clarify, the "mono" leader that you use in this situation - is that fluorocarbon or just plain nylon?
Cheers
West Coast
Posts: 331
Date Joined: 10/12/07
No swivel
Normally have 3 rods and a witch doctor out the back. The rods are 2 overheads and a spinning reel - but i wouldn't have thought it really matters. The mono is just plain nylon. I think you can over think it too much. If you are using 4kg line or something then you probably have to get technical, but we use 15kg to 24kg and life is pretty simple.
I run an x rap 30 near the teaser, an x rap 20 a bit further back and then a 2m halco out the back. We head out of Freo and troll the 30m line out the back of the Stragglers and toward Parker Point. Always seems to be bait holding there. If things are quiet we sweep along the edge of the sanctuary off Salmon Bay and out towards Duffield Ridge. That is a pretty good run.
When we have a hook up we try to keep trolling for another 100m or so. This way you have a chance of multiple hook ups, but it also gets the fish way out the back and the fish is pretty knackered by the time you get him in. I see a lot of lost fish when people try to gaff - this certainly helps that. Probably not a good idea if a lot of sharks about.
I have done heaps of sailing towing metal spoons and tuna jigs on venetiian blind cord. The mackies jump all over them, so using rods, braid, good lures etc - they don't stand a chance!!
Good luck.
terboz123
Posts: 1358
Date Joined: 13/04/11
You gotta remember you need
You gotta remember you need to do what WORKS FOR YOU! Take in everyone's advice and there are some greater pointers here and different things work for different people. JohnF and Paul G are very high up in terms of respected fisherman on this site for me personally, though I have been bitten off numerious times fishing for metro Mack's hence why I use wire!
over time you will start figuring out where the Mack's like to school up and what ground they like. Just use the KISS method for now but a must is witch doctors I really really recommend using them...... And mark every Mack you get ... Patterns start showing :)
just ts wait till you get a triple hook up with two people on the boat as well has two doctors out.....
a hard days fishing still beats work
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GCGFC memberunhurry
Posts: 236
Date Joined: 23/10/12
123
Ha Terboz123, your enthusiasm for mack fishing is palpable!
terboz123
Posts: 1358
Date Joined: 13/04/11
Yerh mate I'm a pelagic
Yerh mate I'm a pelagic man....being metro based you don't get it like up north and when you do you need to take advantage!
plus here there is less sharks so lighter line class and finding Mack's busting bait balls so you can stick or throw lures at then is even better
a hard days fishing still beats work
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GCGFC memberuncle
Posts: 9353
Date Joined: 10/02/07
triples and quadriples do happen
espeisally up north, have had 1 at rotto, yeah mono swivel wire, some older lures on mono, gotta work out your own system, if theres macks around any thing works.
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
uncle
Posts: 9353
Date Joined: 10/02/07
nothing worked today
only trolled for about an hour, water was 24 degrees, no birds or bait, put the pick down, Garath got 2 undersize pinkies and 3 bust offs, there was a huge amount of boats out early at mindarie
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
dodgy
Posts: 4563
Date Joined: 01/02/10
I never run wire on lures
I never run wire on lures and very rarely lose one. No swivel, just main line to about a 2m leader and looped to the lure. I'm in Hedland so there are more than a few macks here. We actively avoid them to be honest.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
Paul_86
Posts: 1449
Date Joined: 27/03/09
While we're on the subject,
While we're on the subject, what's the best knot for tieing mono main line (30lb) to mono leader (100lb). Tried to tie a Bimini in the 30lb but that wasnt too pretty! Would uni to uni be sufficient?
DTrain
Posts: 486
Date Joined: 10/02/12
My thoughts
I'm no expert but I wouldn't bother with wire for the metro area. You don't want to spook the fish. If you loose a couple of lures to bite offs so be it. At least if your getting bitten off you know there are fish around and your doing the right thing. If your spooking the fish then you'll never know.
I also don't bother with a swivel for bibbed lures. If their swimming straight then they shouldn't put twists in your line. If they're not swimming straight then your not gonna catch fish on them. Keep an eye on them and clear any sea weed straight away. The swivel adds an extra bubble trail and the mackies can go for that sometimes instead of the lure.
If your using skirts they will twist the line and a swivel is necessary.
As for the leader I think f/c is probably overkill. Just use mono shock leader with a bit of stretch to it. 2-3 meters or so.
I use the FG knot to join my braid to my leader. Other good knots are the PR and GT knot. Uni to uni knot is quite a bit weaker compared to those knots.
saltatrix
Posts: 1075
Date Joined: 30/03/08
Ultra deep divers 8+ metres
Ultra deep divers 8+ metres have been working well especially as the sun gets higher.
Some nice pinks picked while trolling around the 900mm mark as well while doing it.
If using braid, keep drag in lower strike mode and softer rod so you dont rip teeth out.
10 kilo braid should be ample. Keep a spin rod handy in case there is any followers you can have a go with a stick bait; or cast a switch bait (use 250mm of wire trace for this) out back to the followers
If you want to, tie braid to (small swivel double the breaking strain main line to stop bubble wash) then tie your mono leader to the swivel. If you tie the braid via uni knot to the swivel the breaking strain is 80% of mainline.
Like Paul G said, if you use 2 metres of 100lb leader, you can lift them in the boat via the leader.
Fluorocarbon is harder than mono and for some silly reason they are fussy which normally they are not even though you go to a 100lb they wont see it.
Yeah, a Witchdoctor with mirrors will help too. It bring them from deep water up.
Hang one lure as close the transom you can without it popping out. (right next the bubble wash fromt he prop)
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sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
I just buy the wind on
I just buy the wind on leaders (80lb) We use them up north all the time and have never been bitten off, caught some decent Mackies with them. Double in the main line easy as......
Love the West!
Bodie
Posts: 3758
Date Joined: 05/11/07
interesting read, what's
interesting read, what's everyone's thoughts on distance the lures should be back from the boat?
Different boats, different distances? Single motor puts out less water turbulence than twins, less noise, less wake.. So should lures be further out the back?
I usually run 2 X-Rap 30's about 5-10m behind the teaser then a shallow diver a further 5-10 behind that
sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
I get my deep divers just
I get my deep divers just behind the wake and shallows just inside. Always get hook ups either way.
Love the West!
uncle
Posts: 9353
Date Joined: 10/02/07
normal is 2 longs outside
2 shorts in the middle, depends on weed etc
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs