Shark tragedy.....what are the soloutions

 Ok so tragically another lover of the sea has died doing what they loved. Absoloutely terrible.

Im sure that anyone who was there will be profoundly affected by what they saw forever

                                                            RIP Ben

The cull or not to cull saga will be back and forth forever and nothing will change....but besides killing the

sharks or staying out of their environment, what are some possible measures to protect surfers and divers.

I think that given that the locations where we like to surf and dive are often rugged and remote a device that

is worn on the body is the obvious  way to go....I know of the Shark Sheild...But for surfing they are ungainly

and not popular.....I have never seen a surfer with one.  Are they the best we can do?

Their must be something..... We can put a man on the moon, probe our ocean depths yet whenever we enter fringes of our

seas we still risk being eaten like our primitive ancestors. 

So does anyone have any brilliant soloutions........Go nuts ...go practical....Just GO!!!

Remember that surfers are not always in crystal clear water and are often in silhouette. So any visual deterant will not be partiularly effective.

I thought percussion could be a possability, but that would need to be louder than the lip of a breaking wave....if it was to be the volume alone 

that was the deterring factor.......

Anyhow....I hope a few of you have a go. Brainstorm it!!!

Please if you are just going to make negative remarks....save your energy for something that makes you happy.

I already know that not every problem in life has a perfect answer..............

 

 


Doc's picture

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They need to invest a lot

Sat, 2016-06-04 10:31

They need to invest a lot more money to improve detection. Sounds simple, but we need a govt to have the balls to spend this money.

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Shark shields

Sat, 2016-06-04 10:50

I don't see why more ppl in Australia don't use shark shields... I'd rather get a shock from the lead than the possibility of getting my leg eaten. Even if you do survive an attack like that, the depression from losing a limb plus all the other medical problems would be an absolute nightmare. 

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https://sharkshield.com/testimonials/john-hastings-surfer/

Sat, 2016-06-04 10:55

 .

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Personally I think over and

Sat, 2016-06-04 11:05

Personally I think over and above everything else....an independent study to scientifically prove that the GW is not endangered needs to be undertaken.

all very well for a whole pile of fishos and surfers to say. "ummmmm we see lots more of them therefor they are not endangered" but until science can prove beyond a doubt the need to take they off the endangered list conservationist will always have a very valid argument against the cull.

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 This.

Sat, 2016-06-04 14:16

 This.

Paj man's picture

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Yep

Mon, 2016-06-06 07:01

Yep! Let's get our facts right before all the 'kill 'em all' and 'it's their territory' plebs come in.

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Edit

Mon, 2016-06-06 07:07

Double post.

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aka Nick

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The only real answer is to

Sat, 2016-06-04 11:12

The only real answer is to stay out of the water. 

Knocking off a few white pointers would help imo so im not against a "Cull" so to speak

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Bend over

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Just do it

Sat, 2016-06-04 11:57

 Sure it pays to be cautious, however if man were cautious all the time we wouldn't have been to the moon , sailed the oceans , flown like the birds. Something, somewhere is going to take us out eventually . I'd rather go out in an ass puckering blaze of glory doing ( see trying ) something that I enjoyed. As for the Sharks I can't really say what to do with em. Footnote : I'm off to Fiji in two weeks to dive ( no cage ) the Bequa shark dive.... Big bull n Tiger sharks galore. If you can't beat em join em me thinks..:D

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Sat, 2016-06-04 12:22

 I'm for better earlier detection also.

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 shark detection maybe great

Sat, 2016-06-04 12:29

 shark detection maybe great if your Metro, but where does that leave everyone else in WA?

Aerial patrols etc, similar
Not so much for attacks but losing fish, Ive thought some device that puts out a sudden loud percussion under your boat may deter long enough to get a fish to the surface before being eaten may work

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The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

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Question

Sat, 2016-06-04 12:48

Can a device like the sharkshield be built into a board and in that way not have a trailing wire which from what I am reading is the main objection to wearing one whilst surfing and getting a electric shock from them.

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There is one mate

Sat, 2016-06-04 13:18

It fits into the board somewhere around the fin

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Espy

Sat, 2016-06-04 15:34

 Got a mad surfer mate who surfs some pretty remote beaches east and west of Esperance. He got a shark shield built into his latest board.

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Nets.

Sat, 2016-06-04 12:52

 Go Sydney style and put nets up at some beaches that have cove like properties. You could then have 1 or 2 beaches in different regions that have the nets and if people want to swim or surf outside the netted areas then they understand the risks.

Oh wait, Colin said he won't go back to having beaches with shark nets as he then has to pay people to remove the sharks/maintain them.

In Sydney the nets don't even go all the way across the beach. They are intended to prevent sharks from establishing teritories more so than creating a perfect barrier. You can't argue with the stats that there hasn't been a fatal attack on a netted Sydney beach since they were introduced in 1937.

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Someone was "mauled" last

Sat, 2016-06-04 14:29

Someone was "mauled" last year at Bondi. NSW coastline is 2100km long, WA is 12000km. Sure, you could net up 50km either side of Perth (at  what cost?) but this wouldn't have helped old mate on Tuesday, the bloke at Wedge, the bloke in Esperance, the bloke at Rotto....

I think the should be a major catch and release study on true numbers off the coast. Implement a fishery if numbers justify (sure the Asian market would LOVE part of the catch) and put some major research into acoustic deterrents though again, the feasibility of installing these where people swim could be unfesable.

I have no objection to the fisheries response to this instance though the shark should have been beached for scientific purposes. If a dog attacks a person, what happens to the dog? 4 crocs were shot in Queensland searching for the ONE that killed the lady mid week. To many hypocrites with access to media whom have never killed a fly or fish...

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 Mauled is a big difference

Sat, 2016-06-04 19:01

 Mauled is a big difference to dead.

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 The nets don't work, are a

Sat, 2016-06-04 18:21

 The nets don't work, are a massive waste of money and kill sea creatures that get tangled up in them.

horrible idea.

 

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 No fatality on a netted

Sat, 2016-06-04 19:02

 No fatality on a netted beach since 1937. Yeah I can see they don't work

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Nope

Sun, 2016-06-05 10:42

 And how many where there before? How many other creatures are killed in the net?

does it reduce total attacks in the state? We can't net the whole states coastline off, and generally those that are attacked aren't at popular swimming beaches where the nets would be put up so I don't see how nets will reduce the toll over here. 

 

Your one statistic in isolation shows nothing.

z00m's picture

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Stats

Mon, 2016-06-06 07:37

There was a documented case of a fatality at Bondi in 1929 and again in 1932 so you can say what you like but it has put a barrier between the fish and the people.

And I never denied that people have been killed outside netted beaches in NSW. duh.

You pine for the 'other creatures' but there are 10s if not 100s more creatures killed hourly as bycatch in commercial fishing.

The thread was about ideas, I no longer feel the need to address any more of your posts. 

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http://www.modomsurf.com/#!sh

Sat, 2016-06-04 15:04

http://www.modomsurf.com/#!shark-leash/c1yby
New shark deterrent leash has just come out. No batteries or electrics, works on magnets making up the electrical field. Good thing about this is that you can still easily swap boards and only need the one leash, very light and compact too.
I can't see this stopping a charging great white but might stop a curious one. I'm thinking about getting one, if nothing else it will at least keep the girlfriend happy.

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 Very Skeptical. There claims

Sat, 2016-06-04 20:16

 Very Skeptical. Their claims and explination on how it "works" has more holes in it than my old undies.

And I not the only one. Seems more like marketing spin than tech that works. 

http://beachgrit.com/2016/06/report-do-anti-shark-leashes-work/

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Invention

Sat, 2016-06-04 18:39

My  Wave/Solar/Wind Electric Power Generator Bouys that have battery back up create the right electrical feild (deterrent) similar to a divers Shark shield.

 

 

 

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 Put permanent shark sheilds

Sat, 2016-06-04 19:48

 Put permanent shark sheilds on the ocean floor at popular surf breaks. Have it generate its own power using the oceans current.

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Kudos to you Luke

Mon, 2016-06-06 07:18

 Wow that is thinking outside of the box. Nice one Luke

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Shark Safe

Sat, 2016-06-04 21:44

For the surfers out there have a look at Surf Safe www.rpela.com. Designed locally by surfboard shaper Dave Smith at Katana Surfboards. Fits into the boards base and a wire is routed up aloung the stringer.

New model out that can be inter changed between boards. 

 

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Well if you don't want baited

Sat, 2016-06-04 21:56

Well if you don't want baited shark lines put out there after an attack..vote for the ALP cause they are going to ban then. Along with trying to stop fishing in haft the areas we have access to now.
The Great White is the only shark in Australia that is likely to kill you the rest not so. I for one what them culled back to levels of 30 or so years ago.

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 How much is a shark

Sat, 2016-06-04 22:17

 How much is a shark shield?

Can it be subsidised by Govt especially for Surfers, offshore fishermen who aren't targeting sharks, Kayak fishermen, scuba divers and spearfisherman?

 

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I think they're are around 700 bucks

Sun, 2016-06-05 07:42

 Money well spent I think

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Government susidy

Sun, 2016-06-05 15:39

Subsidy from the state government, now that is a sick joke. If you can't get the GST taken of EPIRBs I can't see the government taking it off shark deterrent devices. Never mind about they might save lives like EPIRBs.

This government is that broke I'am amazed that they haven't put a tax on using the Indian Ocean for recreation and it wouldn't surprise me if they brought in licencing surf boards as well as requiring surfers to have a ticket like a skippers ticket.

Oh hell I've let the cat out of the bag.

slam's picture

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Why

Mon, 2016-06-06 07:15

 Why should it be subsidised. Are my life jackets, epirb, flares subsidised that are required by law to have on a boat for my safety? It seems surfers don't want to spend the money on shark shields. Their decision. As a boat owner I will get fined without appropriate safety gear. 

Slightly off beat but a bit similar to going into outback with no epirb. Should be law to carry a locator beacon as in the ocean

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 "It seems surfers don't want

Mon, 2016-06-06 14:24

 

"It seems surfers don't want to spend the money on shark shields".

I can tell you're not speaking from experience because this has absolutely nothing to do with why surfers don't use a shark shield. If a shark shield was completely redesigned to recess inside a board or something, I'd consider it.

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Read Ryhno13s post

Mon, 2016-06-06 15:09

How much is to much for life insurance. Don't believe they work. Why shouldn't shark deterrent devices be made mandatory like EPIRBS Flares Life jackets. Do you have safety belts in your car, wear a helmet when you ride a push bike or a motor bike, why

Because they increase your chances of staying alive if you become involved in a life threatening encounter of some type.

Guaranteed to save your life, no, if you want that stay in bed all the time and don't get out of it.

I'm not being critical of you MW 87 it's just that with all the rhetoric going on about sharks.
I think it is time for all of us water users to step back and think about how we (I use that word we to include myself) can make our use of the ocean and the pleasure it gives us a safer experience.

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 That's absolutely not my

Mon, 2016-06-06 15:49

 That's absolutely not my point meglodon. I'm saying the cost is not the main factor in why a surfer does not use a shark shield. To imply that is ridiculous. The design needs to be changed in order for it to work whilst surfing.

 

Edit: I missed Rhyno13's post. Doing some research and it appears there are some pretty good concepts for use on a surfboard. Until now I have never known of their existence. Perhaps better marketing and availability would make them more successful...? 

slam's picture

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You are right

Mon, 2016-06-06 22:53

 You are right mw87. I have no experience of using them however if there was any chance that a shield could potentially save my life I would seriously consider using one. As Meglodon mentioned a preventative measure is better than nothing. 

Also previously mentioned, Dave from Katana boards has a device that can be built into the board. Actually saw him on Shark Tank trying to get funding for his design.

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Shark sheild

Sun, 2016-06-05 07:23

 Can give you false sense of security. Don't rely on them. Shark may turn away 1 or 2 times. Don't get me wrong I use one ( back up ). Also had big bronzy come real close and yes it was working( grabbed it to make sure it was on and working). I've also had one on float while fishing for pinks( nth end) saved first few ,they got use to it then bang hunger took over. Didn't stop any after that. Deterant only. But the one it does turn away could be the one that saves you.50/50.

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 SMOKIE 

Sun, 2016-06-05 10:35

 SMOKIE 

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 I think with the close range

Sun, 2016-06-05 12:40

 I think with the close range deterrent technology there is a fundimental flaw.  From all the video on feeding behavior of white sharks in shallow water surf zones ive seen, the sharks obviously sense prey from distance ,they can probably distinguish each individual prey item as well.   They make there mind up well before they get into the range of say a shark shield that they are going to have a go.  It may put them off at the last instance  but a high speed big shark with its mouth open can do a lot of damage even if it pulls out of an attack at the last second.     I think  technologies based around other senses of the shark would be a better solution. Such as smell,sound or sight to put the shark off before it gets into the strike zone.   There are a few around and its seems lots of companies are exploring these options. Most dont have surfers in mind though. Most are centred around commercial fishing.  So maybe in the future we will have something like a canister of a slow release chemical which sharks hate and will be picked up by sharks at a distance and will drive them away from the area. 

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Does it stand to reason that

Sun, 2016-06-05 18:19

Does it stand to reason that because we have just had one of the largest salmon migrations we have witnessed, which obviously results in a huge amount of food in the water for predators that that is the reason that there seems to be a few more sharks around ?

 During times like this should we just make people more aware of the dangers when entering the water and deterring activities that might cross over the natural influx until that heightened threat passes ?

We could if we wanted just kill kill kill and eliminate all the "dangerous" sharks because we are a very intelligent species but I personallyt don't think this is the answer.

I think we just need to adjust our behavour and keep working on a personal deterrent of some kind either electronic, visual or scent based..I don't know what.

 

 

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My fishing spots are so secret........... even the fish don't know where they are !!

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After the salmon we get the

Mon, 2016-06-06 08:40

After the salmon we get the pinks.
So lets look at what we have really done here.
GW 100% protected for a long time, numbers go up over the years. and now we are having more people killed by GW.
GW kills Ben, drum lines put out to kill GW, GW dead.
Diver killed by GW, drum lines put out ( and I hope they kill this one too ).
If we are going to set the drum lines to kill the GW, why wait till it has taken a life?
So what has been done over the last couple of years to address these shark attacks????? sweet F*$k all.

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More drum lines, kill the bloody sharks!

Humpback's picture

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sharks

Sun, 2016-06-05 20:58

 Krusty for a clown name you actually make sence.

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the Salmon

Mon, 2016-06-06 07:04

 The Salmon are around for a long time these days we see them for 3/4 of the year......most water users are aware of the increased risk when bait is in the water......

too long to stay out of the water though.....something needs to be done............

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My two cents worth.I am very

Mon, 2016-06-06 09:09

My two cents worth.

I am very sorry to all the people and families that are going through tragic times at the moment and may peace be with you all..

A lot of whales, sharks, seals, crocs etc were hunted and utilised in times past and reduced and so called made them nearly wiped out, they seem to have made a seamless

recovery and the oceans and earths balance wasnt pushed off its axis around here in my observations. Common sense needs to prevail from people in power.

Sadly there will be more and more of this in our waters unless you keep your feet dry!. Whats is going to be said when a child is taken sadly? They shouldnt have been having a

swim at the beach beacause the sharks own it! cmon wake up do gooders!.

White pointers are obviously are a lot more common than what a lot of the media lead  technology masses have been lead to believe. They were never endangered.

Something needs to be done, I have lost a close mate in the past, another mate was bitten but miraciuosly survived and lives to tell the story, other mates have been around

attacks and I have had them around my boat as well which I would say is an incredible like experience and there is a respect but...

If big male boomer roos start hanging around golf courses they potentially become a serious threat and they cop a bullet and no media mass people usually find out about it or

even care and they are protected as well and the same goes for many other creatures as well.

Reduce the numbers in my opinion.

 

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Mon, 2016-06-06 10:26

 

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 Yep the world didn't stop

Mon, 2016-06-06 10:05

 Yep the world didn't stop back in the 70 s and 80 s when they were killed in there 1000 s down in Albany. We as a race have already fucked up the environment so it's up to us to fix it and to let one species especially one top of the food chain run rampant is irresponsible. It is working with demersal fish etc. Time to let the pros back in i reckon. Otherwise we will lose a way of life Australia is famous for. Or we can just forget about entering the water and all play computer games. 

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  If it's all done under regs

Mon, 2016-06-06 10:42

  If it's all done under regs there shouldnt be a problem.

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abrohlosorbust's picture

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Time to act.

Mon, 2016-06-06 11:24

As a 50+ year old with young family I think the time has come to start putting humans first. I have dived for over 20 years and used the beaches/ oceans since I could walk/ swim. I agree we should not just go out and slaughter every shark in the ocean but we also shouldn't consider 1 humans life as less than another animal. All the emotive crap about staying out of the water / your going into their territory etc doesn't cut it. At 20 I new/ believed the risks of entering the ocean was acceptable with the odd interaction with anything that could harm you. Today whilst the risk per head of population may be the same there is no doubt we are seeing more and larger sharks in close to shore. I am all for research to come up with alternatives but that takes time and even then may be subject to inconclusive results.
I would also ask were tagged sharks involved in either instance because it doesn't help if they were outside recording areas or not tagged and therefore invisible to our current plan of giving everyone current movements. I do not believe it is practical or possible to capture and tag every shark so does this just provide a bit of a feel good to those supporting its use to prevent an attack.
We need to put the human first and if that means targeting a certain number/ size/ species then that's what we should do. I am not suggesting carte blanc destruction but support the idea of tipping the balance back in our favour. In the meanwhile research to your hearts content and I wish best of luck coming up with a viable and practical means of keeping keeping human users of the oceans safe.

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Walfootrot's picture

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Well said

Mon, 2016-06-06 12:18

Well said

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More drum lines, kill the bloody sharks!

spinksy's picture

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Well said mate

Tue, 2016-06-07 06:30

My thoughts exactly. check the stats since they have been protected their numbers have got to unacceptable levels and the balance is out. Hate to say it but these will probably not be the last attacks. Its been quite the last few years through good luck rather than anything changing.

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 Stop teaching them to

Mon, 2016-06-06 15:26

 

Stop teaching them to associate humans and boats with food via shark cage diving would be a good start

Most (if not all) of the sharks tagged at Neptune Islands are picked up (sometimes as little as nine days after departing the Neptunes) off the Perth Coast.

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 yep 

Mon, 2016-06-06 15:35

 yep 

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No cage diving in WA

Mon, 2016-06-06 15:55

This government has ruled out cage diving a long time back, a certain basket ball player wanted to introduce it to WA and the premier categorically ruled it out, full stop.

Paul H's picture

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 Looking at expanding it here

Tue, 2016-06-07 19:14

 Looking at expanding it here in SA  - even proposed sites closer to Adelaide -  all about tourism $$$

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Da pirate's picture

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Season quota !!

Mon, 2016-06-06 15:58

 Maybe just a season quota of say 10 or 20 whites 

a year every year !!! Then leave it too fisheries too 

catch em and bring em in for study or what ever ?? 

Surely make a difference !! Then it would give us 

a fair idea how many sharks we are dealing with 

from the yearly catch rate ? And all so done at right 

time of year and leave poor old mr tiger alone !! 

Cheers pirate !!

abrohlosorbust's picture

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Now theres some research!

Tue, 2016-06-07 18:53

Da Pirate Agree and done right it could be controlled. Researchers get to access the catch and informed decisions based on size, maturity, location would add to the info provided by those tagged.

Lets not kid ourselves, how many whites have they actually tagged. Lets not confuse the species we are trying to get info on. I'm with you leave Mr tiger alone and his mates and target research the known current problem.

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little johnny's picture

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Easy fixed orca recordings

Mon, 2016-06-06 23:39

 Played under water .the biggest apex predator . After reading and watching pretty sure whites would keep away. :):) :)

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Could this be the magic bullet

Sat, 2016-06-11 17:09
Krusty's picture

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trialing

Sat, 2016-06-11 18:09

 Now that is something that could work.

But one sentence there doesn't make sense...

"The Western Australian Government was not trialing the technology, even though it was developed there, but Mr Anderson denied his company had been shunned"

Why the hell are we not at least trialing it here ?

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My fishing spots are so secret........... even the fish don't know where they are !!

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Now that is the 64 dollar question

Sat, 2016-06-11 18:50

I think Mr Anderson is saying he doesn't think his company is being shunned so as not to embarrass Barnett and possibly put the kybosh on any chances of getting his device accepted by the government.
It's not like you could say Barnett would be vindictive would he.....yeah right.

But isn't it typical, Australians have invented some great gear but sadly they have had to take it over seas to get any sales and get it accepted on a world market as a great invention.

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Why should we spend tens of

Sun, 2016-06-12 11:34

Why should we spend tens of millions of dollars to find out we cant adequately detect them, cant deter them and cant stop them. Stay out of the water and you wont get attacked. Simple. If your not willing to accept every potential of the game, then dont play the game. Stop trying to be 'Extreme' with guaranteed safety. You fuckers are carrying like people are being attacked whilst doing the shopping. Stay out of the water and you wont get bitten. Its just a waste of time and money. Id like to see them get taken off the endangered list so they can be caught again. I*d also like to see just how many big men will actually try to catch one. A seldom few at best Id say.
Daisy