Skippers ticket
Hi fellow fishers, just wanted to find out what others thought of the current training required in obtaining your skippers ticket ??
I for one think that the training must be improved as it is just not possible to obtain the skills that are reqiured to take command of a vessel and head out into the deep blue after just a couple of days training. I know that cost will no doubt raise its head should I receive any feed back but you only have to look at recent events over the past couple of years to see that it additional traings is long overdue.
Would you let your son or daughter loose on the roads and drive V8 car that was capable of 200kph after a couple of days training. Food for thought.
How many times have we all seen the boat in front leaving from Hillaries, Ocean Reef, Mindarrie etc on the wrong side and speeding out of the 5k zone and they are not even out of of the marina area,also the same on the way back in.
Should the following topics be included and be mandatory, boat and engine maintenance, radio and communication, basic chart reading , and GPS to name but a few.
Unless the course has changed since I obtained my licence (approx 6 years ago) none of the topics mentioned were covered and when I did mine we were assured that no one would fail, you do not get that promise when you do your car licence and even then there are stipulations upon obtaining your driving licence.
Can you imagine the outcome, you obtain you skippers ticked and you are now free to head out on your first excursion with a coule of mates, the weathers not too bad 15k of wind with 1mtr swell. 3 hours into your fishing trip it turns pear shape, its now blowing 25k of wind and the swell is now on 1.5 and heading up to 2mtr swell and you are 20k from port ??. I have the feeling we have a potential rescue on the cards.
You do not get or gain boating experience after a couple of days training.
What are your thoughts.
hlokk
Posts: 4292
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Increasing training doesnt
Increasing training doesnt stop people being dickheads, changing attitudes does. Most of the people doing the wrong thing, would still do the wrong thing even if they knew what the right ones are. And as for experience, its just that, cant necessarily teach experience unless you have a few weeks of intensive training...
That being said, more info would be good for the people who try but just arent very knowledgable. However, a lot of information is out there if you're willing to look. Its the people that arent willing that are the problem.
scotto
Posts: 2470
Date Joined: 21/04/08
Dead right dundee
Plus they should be taught general boat ramp etiquette (ie: not launching in the retrieving lanes, or where to have your boat on the jetty), how to read weather, and how to back a trailer.
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
Did mine with rockingham sea
Did mine with rockingham sea rescue, they were thorough but mnost people brag about how quick and easy their rst was with commercial operators.
Wahoo
Posts: 243
Date Joined: 11/06/07
the weakest link
of the RST is that you can get your licence on a jetski and then the following day you can go drive a massive boat with your newly acquired licence.
Fishin for a feed and fun.
tim-o
Posts: 4657
Date Joined: 24/05/11
Couple of days trainin? Half
Couple of days trainin? Half a day is all you need, doin a multiple choice test after a breif flick through the book and maybe 15 min totall actually drivin the boat on the prac, I dont reckon anyone has failed to pass, was too easy.
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
scottland
Posts: 3039
Date Joined: 10/05/10
Yeh there's one
Company that you read your booklet go in chat sit the test do a practical in 4 hours in at 10 out at 2
i support two teams eagles and whoever is playing the dockers
Troy Summers
Posts: 408
Date Joined: 14/08/11
Regardless of 'boat
Regardless of 'boat handling' skills... of which I was always dads deckie growing up and never really got to take the helm
Now Ive got a photographic memory, and studied my theory to a point of it all being a bit OCD(honours with a Bachelor of complimentary medicine.. there was no way I was failing a skippers ticket theory) , but at the same time, my offsider decided to do his too.. been boating for years.. I tutored him as well as I could.. random questions at work etc.. really making him think about the answers, til he got it right.. drumming into him things like colours/ cardinals and clockfaces etc... he scraped through the theory..and after all my throwing up and sleepless nights I got a 100%(didnt need no guaranteed pass... although we found out that day that its only the practical thats a guaranteed pass).... Come time for practical.. I reckon I had more time at the helm that day than Id had in my life... now really... we had to only 'logon' and give the pre trip talk, and we were scott free.. papers and certs were already handed out.. we got asked if we wanted to do the practical bit by bit.. I for one wanted to know how to do a few of them(all of them) so I made it happen.. nobody needed to do any of them, but Id never tried any, so thought was a good idea to at least have a go under some experienced instruction....
Only a week or so ago, I was at North Mole with the offsider(who now has a skippers ticket).. and he commented on the(mussel farm.. not sure if thats what it is) near the Helicopter pad... sun setting and the marker lights were in all their glory... West cardinal lights arent working.. so I hit him up.. what mussel farm.. oh that one.. mate which cardinal marker isnt working???? now he started guessing.. I said 'why that one'.. cause we're 'in the boat at night trying to get home'.. he had no idea.. I left him thinking... now ok he's only ever in control of a 10 ft tinny but, if he wins the lotto he can skipper whatever he wants!!!
I believe a skippers ticket should be way more in depth than just a test... there shouldnt be an option!!!
Worst part is that its something not renewable... which is nice in nowadays societies.. but really... If my example didnt have a boat for 10 yrs.. He can get one again and head out to wherever he wants... and its the sea rescues that have to go and pick em up in the mongrel seas cause they had no idea it was gonna get that rough out there!!! or that theyd use that much fuel... or that 'I was sure the batts got replaced a few yrs ago' etc
Totally agree with ya dundee...
theres lots that know what theyre doing... but I reckon theres way more that are putting peoples lives at risk!!
Troy
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
RST/driving licence
totaly agree with Warhoo's comments and others how many times do you see little freddie doing his learners in a little mumsy car then a few months later there he is in the v8 super car with P plates and he has not got a clue about how to handle such a beast. It's the same thing with boats, get the RST using a tinnie for the practical then go out and buy 35" of whatever and people are under the illusion that a boat is a boat just drive it up to the jetty like you did in the tinnie right - wrong. If you what to see some fun and games with big craft go down to the freo boat harbour and have fish and chips at one of the outlets their and watch p[eople try and bring their pride and joy alongside when a bit of a breeze is blowing. You have got to feel for them as they have not been given the skills and basic knowledge to handle such craft.My own personal oppinion is that the RST should only cover craft up to a certain size what that size should be is up to other non government bodies to decide,why non gov, because they could'nt get the difference between day time and night time right in my oppinion.
Just a question what does the restricted coxn's ticket cover.
brenno
Posts: 60
Date Joined: 17/04/12
Restricted coxswain is a
Restricted coxswain is a commercial ticket rated for a commercial vessel no larger than 10 m and i think there is a hp restriction in there as well i have a feeling its 200kw so about 350hp and cannot leave port limits and has your basic marine engineering in it and your radio tickets/ basic nav etc full coxswain is the same but allows inshore waters only Wich is no more than 20nm from the coast at any point
Edit you also need a minimum of 12 months logged commercial sea time as well to even be able to enrol or complete this course
brenno
Posts: 60
Date Joined: 17/04/12
The thing that makes me
The thing that makes me laugh is that if you get caught drunk skippering you loose your car licence as well so 3 yrs to obtain your full car licence and a day course to do your rst and they seem to be in the same league as both are handed out by dpi and here's some extra food for thought for you I have extensive offshore experience I have been working t sea since I was 16 straight from school on fishing and commercial vessels so I no my rules regs and how to handle a boat I have my radio tickets and chart reading and nav tickets as well but I donot have my commercial skippers ticket I am merely a deckhand I didn't have to read the book I sat the multiple choice questions and got my rst no practical required I didn't even have to prove that I had commercial tickets just word of mouth it is a joke I do believe sea safety and awareness/survival courses should be part of the licence as well as a basic firefighting course and also have a log book system maybe like they do for your car license
milsey
Posts: 1462
Date Joined: 22/08/07
I was under the impression
I was under the impression WA is the only state that Doesn't have any drink skippering limits. Get in your car to drive home and that's another story. I agree with most of the comments above tho, far to easy to gain an RST.
tim-o
Posts: 4657
Date Joined: 24/05/11
Thats what I thought too.
Thats what I thought too. Need confirmation, I dont mind a few on the boat, anyone can drive one with their eyes shut in suitable boating conditions.
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
There are laws about being
There are laws about being drunk in charge of a vessel, but (and correct me if I am wrong) there is no legal requirement to undergo a breat test. so it is difficult to police. having said that, police could provide visual and admission evidence of intoxication.
as far as the RST goes, and I haven't read all these responses so forgive me if i am going over ground already covered, but it is only a recent introduction and it wasn't long ago that you could jump onto any size recreational vessel and go anywhere, so what we have now is at least some improvement on what it use to be. I got my RST without an assessment as I already had a coxswain's ticket and I used to instruct the TL3 or small powerboat handlers certificate, so I can't comment on current assessment procedures / standards. I know that as part of the TL3 or small powerboat handlers, there was an emphasis on ramp etiquite (thats not spelt right is it?) and being prepared BEFORE you get to the top of the ramp! but we didn't teach trailer reversing. it was assumed that was a skill already known by the course participant. other theory was navigation, markers, maintenance, safety, weather, bouyancy, balance and trim, and propulsion theory and how it relates to boat handling. and lots of other stuff that i cant remember as i type. the practical sessions re-inforced all that and covered leaving / coming along aside jetties, emergency stops, MOB's etc.
Fish! HARD!
Redemperor000
Posts: 295
Date Joined: 14/01/12
Yep couldnt agree more, there
Yep couldnt agree more, there is no way its thorough enough in any aspects, i did my rst last year and am currently completing my national power boat and everything just seems rushed, "ok youv done it once next skill" sorta thing
i personally dont think more practise would make the water safer but things mentioned like etiquette is somin that should be tought. i rekon theres more boat owners that have no clue about nav markers, speed limits etc than people that do. every time out boating i always see people on wrong side when driving, ignoring safety markers just things like that which can be dangerous.
i just think they need to expand the knowledge of the course and change the easy multiple choice which i rekon a 10 year old could do with 20min of study from the book.
Aidan
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
I wonder if.....
I wonder if a certain doctors sun had a rst
Iceman
Posts: 747
Date Joined: 17/03/09
Increase in Rescues
Since the introduction of the RST the number of rescues have doubled. People get the ticket and become complancent.
That is why we run a National Power Boat Course over seven weeks (1 night a week) that covers a lot more than the RST.
When the RST was introduced we were not consulted on what should be included.
As stated you can do the course in a 14 ft tinnie and then go out and buy a 40ft vessel and operate it with the same licence.
Should be same as motor bikes. Specific licence for the sixe of vessel you intend to operate.
Smartline Personal Mortgage Advisers - Level 1, 11 Hobsons Gate Currambine
0448122208
sea-kem
Posts: 15012
Date Joined: 30/11/09
I actually did a basic
I actually did a basic Navigation course before getting my skippers ticket. It was run by TAFE and would recommend it so when you do your skippers ticket you know what all the makers actually mean. These wankers on their big boats get a RST and still prang their boats onto reef. The nav course should be mandatory for any vessel capable of going more than 5nm offshore. I remember when I did my RST the guy running it said when I finished"Now your liable" meaning anyone getting on board needs an induction on all the safety gear etc because if you don't and the shit hits the fan you can get your ass sued or criminally charged if someone dies.
Love the West!
Dundee bill
Posts: 52
Date Joined: 02/03/12
Thanks for all the replies
Thanks for all the replies guys Its great to see that I am not the only one off the opinion that its far too easy in obtaining you RST.
I initialy thought that cost implications could be a factor regardin better training but its great to see that this has never raised its head.
I for one will be talking to Whitfords rescue as they run various courses which will be a fantastic benifit as I am the first to admit that I do not know it all.
Having worked offshore in Scotland for 13 years I am fully aware how quickly mother nature can change for the worst.
Totaly agree with previous statement, specific licence for the size of vessel that you intend to use and operate, I would also include for a period of time and a log book to be completed.
I am not trying to be a spoil sport regarding this topic but far too many people are being rescued, or even worse due to lack of knowledge and skills. I wonder if any replies will be forethcoming from any RST instructers on this topic ?? very much doubt it.
Be safe ot there guys and tight lines.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8672
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Better
Its better now than what it was before the introduction of rec tickets but stll fall a long way short of what it could or should be.
The pros call rec skippers "wood ducks" because when faced with an unknown or unplanned situation they go round and round in circles trying to work out what to do.
Even now after its been in for some years you still get those who don't know what markers are what, what side to travel on, who gives way to who etc and I think the courses need to cover double what it does now.
RayBen
Posts: 44
Date Joined: 28/05/12
"p plates"
Someone would have to mad to think that straight after getting their rs for their first trips is k's offshore. Maybe some sort of provisional period would be suitable this. Would help stop people getting into strife on their first few outings, or at least Get to know their limits and boat a bit. Policing it is another matter. Common sense should ultimately prevail( few people bit short of it though)
Let em go, let em GROW!
uncle
Posts: 9488
Date Joined: 10/02/07
licences tickets they mean
diddly swat,most idiots think the law dosen't apply to them,see them every day on the road
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
johnno67
Posts: 408
Date Joined: 12/03/10
I did a tl3 course
13 years ago I did a TL3 course at whit fords sea rescue it involved a 9 week theory and practical this was quite a good course that all boaties should have to do not like the RST that's not a course it's just something you can buy remember they always guarantee don't pass don't pay you always pass.
When the RST first came in they didn't recognize the TL3 course and had to PAY for a RST what al load of shit.
Five years time they will introduce something else we will all have to do .
snappermiles
Posts: 2100
Date Joined: 05/11/10
johnno67 i also done the tl3 course
but i was just sent out the skippers ticket with nothing extra to pay! so im not sure why you had to do yours again! the tl3 was a great course and i really think they should reintroduce it but name it as your skippers ticket! it was full of very good info and taught heaps more than the current b*llsh*t course they have out which is pretty much just pay for the card and its all good!
ALL FISHERMEN ARE LIARS EXCEPT YOU AND ME! AND IM NOT SO SURE ABOUT YOU!
carnarvonite
Posts: 8672
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Card
Was having a chat to our local DoT inspector about professional qualifications eg TL3, Restricted coxswains , MC 5 etc and he said that if you were caught driving a rec boat without your rec skippers ticket even though you had professional quallies you can be booked for no ticket.
Another point was that to lose your rec ticket you have to be convicted of the same offence 3 times while if you get done with a pro ticket its usually gone first offence. Bit lop sided I think.
brenno
Posts: 60
Date Joined: 17/04/12
This is true unless you have
This is true unless you have a major incident ie someone getting killed cause you were drunk you will loose your rec ticket on the spot an also your commercial tickets if you have them
But apart from that it is 3 strikes
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
where's the logic in that?
where's the logic in that? they gave all the tl3, coxswains etc who where boat owners their RST without re-sitting the assessment so they obvisiously thought they were qualified enough!
Fish! HARD!
carnarvonite
Posts: 8672
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Sea Time
Not sure with the TL3 but with the coxswains ticket you had to have proven sea time of over 3 months if I remember and a MC 5 its 30 months in a 7 year time frame.
When the rec tickets were first introduced if you were a registered boat owner for over 10 years I think it was they reckoned that by then you should have good knowledge of the rules and have the ability to handle a boat properly, sadly some of those people IMO aren't and never will be up to scratch.
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
When I got my coxswains they
When I got my coxswains they wanted "12 months" sea time. I think 8 hours outside port limits counted for a day, and inside port limits for half a day. A lot of my time was extensive sailing time over the previous twenty years, and as I hadn't maintained a log book, they accepted a stat dec with as much detail as I could muster as to the regattas, races, boats, days at sea etc etc, combined with the time I had put together at Water Police were it was all logged. I was hoping they would assess it as enough for an MC 5, unfortunately not, so I got my coxswain's ticket instead.
Fish! HARD!
Seafari
Posts: 116
Date Joined: 17/03/12
feckers the lot of them!!
I wish the two old tossers who were running in on the wrong side of Mindarie harbour entrance last Sat whilst we were heading out, would catch a wakeup call. And then on returning we had a d*ckhead actually overtake us in the harbour to beat us to the boat ramp. They were doing nothing under 10knots in a fair size Trailcraft in the inside of the harbour. Four blokes looking cool.....what chance do I have with my son and daughter onboard! I have never prayed so hard to see a prop get dinged on the ramp! I say fine the bastards, maybe then they will learn!! And whist I'm having a moan, what;s with the idiot charter operators?? I was heading out a few weeks ago to a well marked and well known fishing spot called "the barges" (geeze, even blind men know where they are) and the skipper and his boozed up mates swore like warfies and made some very rude gestures and signs. Can't say I blame my 12 year old daughter for not being so keen on a fishing trip with Dad and brother anymore.......fecking pigs the lot of them!!!
Dundee bill
Posts: 52
Date Joined: 02/03/12
Totaly agree with last coment
Totaly agree with last coment tossers each and every one of them but dont let the morons put you off talking the family out for a good days fishing. Keep calm do the right thing and the idiots will get pinged at some point. Sooner rather than later down the track.
Seafari
Posts: 116
Date Joined: 17/03/12
Thanks Dundee
I'm pleased that I am not suffering alone on this one! I have zero tolerenace for bad behaviour and bad manners! It's a direct reflection of their upbringing and it's certainly nothing for these blokes to be proud of. Behaving like tossers and ignoring the most basic of rules that keeps our society safe and pleasant is taking low life to a whole new low! Righty-ho......I'm feeling better already :-)
brenno
Posts: 60
Date Joined: 17/04/12
Here's on for ya on ppl with
Here's on for ya on ppl with no brains I was working on a crew transfer boat within harbour limits speed limit 8 knots I was on the bow of a 17m vessel tying up to a barge some moron flys past in a similar boat doing about 25kn pumping out a 4ft wake lucky I was holding on to the bow rail an didn't get thrown off and only suffered a dislocated shoulder and 4 weeks off work an the boat i was on lost its engineer cause i was it joys of working on a 2up boat sad thing is it was a commercial boat that did it and could clearly see what we were doing just goes to show its not only the rec boaters that do it an there are morons everywhere