United Ethanol Fuel
Submitted by Vinesh87 on Thu, 2013-08-08 17:08
Now that United fuels is pushing Ethanol Fuels hard here in WA Whats everyones thoughts?
Straight from the Mercury Website it says "Fuels containing up to 10 percent ethanol are considered acceptable for use in Mercury engines"
"E85 fuels produce mileage approximately 30 percent less than gasoline." Why would you bother? Thats way less than the saving at the pump ?
And not to mention storage when the fuel can seperate leaving a fair bit of water going into your motor ?
Are there any advantages ?
Cheers,
Vinnie
pale ale
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Only advantages are for the
Only advantages are for the bloody greenies
Vinesh87
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haha possibly
haha possibly
tim-o
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Yes and no. Yes because of
Yes and no. Yes because of less emissions, no because they are knocking down old forests around the world so they can grow enough corn and sugar cane to produce the fuel.
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
evolicious
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destroys engines if they are
destroys engines if they are not set up/tuned for it.
if it is set up and can run on it - you cant beat it in terms of power. creates a heap more than standard gasoline - any driver that has a turbo/supercharged car will agree. increases of 50+hp are the norm with not additional mods.
Vinesh87
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What blend are you talking
What blend are you talking about? 10% +?
tim-o
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How does it destroy engines
How does it destroy engines when it has a higher octane?
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
Mr x
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Date Joined: 17/03/09
E-85 needs to be ran with
E-85 needs to be ran with larger fuel system ( pump, injectors and fuel lines) or your engine leans out. If set up right tho cars have been runing much higher hp just running e85 over 98 fuel cheers.
tim-o
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Yes, certainly with e85, you
Yes, certainly with e85, you need a higher volume of fuel, but stock engine with e10 will be fine
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
shortfuse
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I've been led to believe
I've been led to believe corrosion in aluminium fuel tanks is a big problem when left to sit around. I don't know how reliable that info is though
Vinesh87
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Apparenlty bad for Pre-1990
Apparenlty bad for Pre-1990 Fiber tanks too
tim-o
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Corrosion is only due to the
Corrosion is only due to the water content which gets absorbed by ethanol because it is hygroscopic. I wouldnt be too worried too worried about ally. Does have higher conductivity than petrol which will also increase corrosion, minor tho
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
Michael Yoni
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"fuel can separate leaving a
"fuel can separate leaving a fair bit of water going into your motor"
Are you saying that there is water in petrol more over in the Ethanol fuel?
(petrol is hydrophobic - meaning it does not mix with water). Ethanol can mix in water but I think they are just adding 10% absolute ethanol into the petrol. Maybe the addition of the ethanol absorbs the water, but how is it getting in there unless its being absorbed in the atmosphere.
Vinesh87
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"If significant amounts of
"If significant amounts of water are present in a fuel tank with gasoline that contains ethanol, the water will be drawn into the fuel until the saturation point is reached for the three-component mixture of water + gasoline + ethanol. Beyond this level of water, phase separation could cause most of the ethanol and water to separate from the bulk fuel and drop to the bottom of the tank, leaving gasoline with a significantly reduced level of ethanol in the upper phase. If the lower phase of water and ethanol is large enough to reach the fuel inlet, it could be pumped directly to the engine and cause significant problems. Even if the ethanol water phase at the bottom of the tank is not drawn into the fuel inlet, the reduced ethanol level of the fuel reduces the octane rating by as much as 3 octane numbers, which could result in engine problems."
Not sure just trying to make sense of it.
But yes looks like the ethanol will absorb the water and create the separation that wouldnt occur minus the ethanol?but only if it gets water to begin with
Just thinking in terms of a boat that could sit around for months
tim-o
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If it has been left long
If it has been left long enough, the Ethanol will absorb enough moisture so that the two mixures will seperate. The water/ethanol mix is fine, to a certain level (of water content), the water actually increases the octane in theory. But when this seperation occurs, the water/ethanol mix will get used first (pickup is at bottom of the tank), leaving a lower octane petrol in the tank. Thats a good point Yoni. If you have some moisture in the tank, with the ethanol absorbing it, it will be removed from the tank.
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
tim-o
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Actually, thinkin bout it
Actually, thinkin bout it some more. When I say the water/ethanol mix will be fine and increasing octane, I was thinking along the.lines of water injection, which has been around since donkeys had dicks. But like the more oil in fuel for 2 strokes, the water is taking place of what should be fuel, so will in effect be a leaner mixture, more of a problem in a carb setup, but with efi, the o2 sensors reading lean will tell the ecu to widen the inj pulse width to richen it up. Id be interested to know if the lambda reading for ethanol is the same figure.for.petrol, given that lpg has a value different to petrol.
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
kempy
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Main advantage is more power
Main advantage is more power esepcially in turbo/charged cars. E10 is fine in most cars but running e85 in cars that arnt prepped for it isnt good as many rubber fuel lines arnt made for it and fuel filter fall apart etc also due to needed 30% more they made need bigger injectors pumps etc. Some cars can run it from factory like the late ve commodores.
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Goatch
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Ahh mmm more power ?
I actually think that it equates to less power , an engine running on E85 ie a 2006 Landcruiser Petrol 4.7ltr V8 turns into a petrol guzzling slug on that shit !!!! When we went around Australia last year in a couple of places we were forced to buy the ethanol crap and the difference was remarkable .
Just one more cast , honest !!!
tim-o
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Considerable power gains will
Considerable power gains will be made on E85 when you increase comp or boost in an engine (allowable due to high octane rating of the fuel), and gains will also be made by remapping a computer to supply the amount of fuel needed and add ignition timing where appropriate. Problem is, more ethanol is burnt compared to petrol, thus giving you less kays per tank. And the fuel system needs to be capable.of delivering the higher volume. Dont think the Cruiser can, so not a good idea running it! But you did the environment good haha
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
kempy
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We are talking charged cars
We are talking charged cars not NA. NA's you wont get much gain out of it.
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tim-o
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Without changing internals,
Without changing internals, yes, why bother ,but up the comp, right cam and heads etc, big gains, E85 is 105+ octane
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
Vinesh87
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Yeh I figured that it would
Yeh I figured that it would be power gains for tuned cars just wasnt sure about in a normal car, 2st or 4st? When I got my US boat the consensus was to ditch the fuel due to it could have ethanol?
Jason P
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Not a fan of ethanol
For the small cost saving of ethanol based fuels you are likely to run into problems further down the track that could cost a lot more. I also found that the P100 United sell also contains 10% ethanol. Ethanol based fuels are rated for 90 days and I'm sure some of my fuel would be reaching that to some degree.
DM306
tim-o
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Nutin wrong with premo
Nutin wrong with premo unleaded, no real gains by using E10. As for cars that can run e85, which there arent many, so how long is that fuel sittin in the tanks at the servo suckin in moisture
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
Sulo
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Just working on this issue
Just working on this issue right now!
Bottom line on Ethanol... Do not put it in your boat!!! The motor might be able to handle 10% but chnaces are your fuel system cannot... Especially if you have fibreglass tanks! Do not risk Ethanol in your boat.
Vinesh87
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haha thats what I was
haha thats what I was thinking. Was more concerned about it in the boat. Have a diesel car anyway!!