The whites run-"our obligation"
Submitted by Rob H on Sat, 2022-12-17 20:35
Personally (along with several other members here) I have been involved for a few years now on protecting and enhancing our access to lobster as a community resource.
In my mind a large part of this, is the number of lobsters that we give away to people who cant afford them normally or through other avenues.
Curious what proportion people give away?
Part of the reason for this, is that this in the future will also help with our continued access to this fantastic resource
____________________________________________________________________________
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
sunshine
Posts: 2554
Date Joined: 03/03/09
Given 8 today
Sure I could pot for myself but choose not to. Used to dive for them until a white spooked the proverbial out of me, even so used to give way way more away than we kept to eat. Much prefer crabs and prawns flavour wise but what a brilliant resource we have at our doorstep.....the envy of the world ( if they ever get to know about it)
little johnny
Posts: 5329
Date Joined: 04/12/11
2 lots of parents
Daughters and partners . Sister and partner . Work guys ( cray fish cheese toastys) yummy .Few pensioners on street . Approx 40 give or take . Having crap year this year . Very hit and miss . I don’t do reds only whites ( cleaner and sweeter ) . It’s a good thing they’re letting pro sell straight from boat . Fresh cheaper crays . Helps them out . china market screwed now .
sea-kem
Posts: 14853
Date Joined: 30/11/09
When I do fish for them
When I do fish for them probably give half away, same as with a lot of the fish I catch.
I save all the wings and heads for the Vietnamese mumma at my lunch bar, genuine refugee family that have and still are doing the hard yards.
She cries with delight when I bring her fish etc. Makes my day.
Love the West!
Swompa
Posts: 3783
Date Joined: 14/10/12
I eat the first one every
I eat the first one every year and give every other one away.
I enjoy catching but think they are the most overrated seafood around.
hodge
Posts: 71
Date Joined: 03/09/07
Similar
I am similar to Swompa.
Eat 1 or 2 and then basically give away the rest. To family, friends, neighbours, postman lol.
stricko
Posts: 222
Date Joined: 10/05/10
Telling fisheries how many
Telling fisheries how many crays you give away is probably worse than telling them how many dhuies you release in my opinion can't see any good coming from it.
sea-kem
Posts: 14853
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Why? If they are caught
Why? If they are caught legitimately and within our rec catch quota what's the problem?
What are Fisheries gonna do about it anyway, they only enforce the law, not make it.
Love the West!
stricko
Posts: 222
Date Joined: 10/05/10
Tell me what good can it do
Tell me what good can it do telling everyone you give most of your catch away especially now the pros are relying more and more on the local market.
Faulkner Family
Posts: 17861
Date Joined: 11/03/08
It's o different to giving
It's o different to giving away fish . Or even money. It's yours that you got in a legal way so it's yours to give away to whoever you like. Your not making any money on it by selling it.
Not everyone can afford to buy crays let alone go out and catch them
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
sea-kem
Posts: 14853
Date Joined: 30/11/09
It's called sharing the love
It's called sharing the love and goodwill dude. Why would I be concerend about the pros relying on the local market?
They are in it as a business and as any business it's a risk.
I'm in business and if I had to rely on one client or "market" then I'm doing it wrong.
I can't see why you have a problem with such a positive post.
Love the West!
stricko
Posts: 222
Date Joined: 10/05/10
I don't have a problem with
I don't have a problem with sharing your catch but can't see any good in recording or publishing it as fisheries can see it as rec lic holders taking more than their means .i would hope everyone would be a bit cautious with surveys and research and such after the shit sandwich with have just been handed with the demersal bans.
sea-kem
Posts: 14853
Date Joined: 30/11/09
I count about half a dozen
I count about half a dozen blokes on here mentioning sharing their catch, hardly going to affect the tonnage quota.
Can't see the point in being cautious, they've still fucked us over even with the common sense offers put on the table.
Look I hear what you're saying but there are more than enough Crays out there for the population. They've supposedly calculated that.
Love the West!
hezzy
Posts: 1519
Date Joined: 27/11/09
yes , agree stricko, while
yes , agree stricko,
while it is always nice to give a few crays away to some one who cant catch their own or cant afford to buy them i dont think it is in the rec sectors best long term interest to publicly go putting a estimate of it on here or anywhere else
it just gives the anti rec sector ammo to build acase to reduce the recs pitifull 5% of the harvestable TAC we now have ,
it may not have been noticed but there are many voices who carry some weight constantly sniping in the dept ear by media and meetings that the recs take too many now
think about it , enjoy what you have , no need to give away free ammo to ''others '' and have your access and share reduced in the future
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
Rob H
Posts: 5744
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Hezzy, understand what you
Hezzy, understand what you are saying, but the "anti rec sector" already have that, and a sympathetic ear.
At some point it will be about who has the most "sympathetic ears", and those "sympathetic ears" are the people who presently couldnt give a rats ass about elitist rec fishos and pros arguing.
And they out number both sectors 100 to 1.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Mike17
Posts: 323
Date Joined: 30/06/13
Agree 100%
Agree 100% Hezzy the next thing we'll see info saying a survey was conducted and 20% of recreational crayfish are not consumed by the license holder and so the daily limit will be reduced to 5 or 6 per license.
The rec sector have been giving far too much catch data and info on the premise that we're hepling to protect our fishing where all we've been doing is the opposite.
Use The Force
stricko
Posts: 222
Date Joined: 10/05/10
My point exactly boasting
My point exactly boasting about giving your catch away is not going to help our cause one bit and the fact the person who's idea it is happens to be a sitting member of rec fish makes it even worse. The line your supposed to help not make it harder springs to mind.
still trying
Posts: 1020
Date Joined: 27/06/17
I share plenty, with
I share plenty, with neighbours and family. This year for the whites run I have been taking 2 other guys out that like fishing but don't have a boat 1 of them had never been on a boat before they are having a ball. I feel bad because I promised them that we would see 20 in a pot but it hasn't happened this year yet.
rather be fishing
Shark1
Posts: 1084
Date Joined: 21/05/12
no law agaisnt giving it
no law agaisnt giving it away - but take any money or even a biscuit for a swop, different story
same as u can not take money for taking someone fishing - they can pay for fuel at the bowser, bu they cant give u cash
welcoem to first world problems
Brock O
Posts: 3163
Date Joined: 11/01/08
I'm with Stricko, cannot
I'm with Stricko, cannot trust this Gov and I'm sure the pros are up in arm's with lost market share because of exactly what the topic is discussing.
No I give fk all away...I struggle to catch them.
Jamie-Chester
Posts: 114
Date Joined: 28/07/10
I’ll take “misguided ideas
I’ll take “misguided ideas that could backfire terribly” for $1000 please.
For many years the principle of rec Fishing was backed by the idea “to provide a feed for oneself and family”. What you are talking about is trying to sell rec fishing for crays as a socialist style commercial fishery. Just don’t. It’s beyond dumb imo. Just my opinion of course.
Then again Fisheries and pros might LOVE the idea.... you know pseudo commercial fishing is something they are fans of.
Rob H
Posts: 5744
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Sure "Jamie"
Sure Jamie, which of your ideas has been a magnificent success?
I have only ever seen you bitching about "what might of been", what you "would have done", and how "no one listened to you".
You have a degree in the right field, but seem to have been quite ineffective at actually achieving anything material aside from knocking literally everyone else.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Jamie-Chester
Posts: 114
Date Joined: 28/07/10
I never said I wasnt jaded!
But theres a reason for this. There is a long long list of things I've put in print and said and lobbied for that havent been lisented to over the years and (almost) everything Ive said has come to pass. Imagine the frustration of that. I wont go into everything but it includes the shark issue, demersal fishery, marine parks, licence fees and many many others.
But this is about rock lobster I guess. This is from an article about the initial IFAAC IFM process from 2006 I wrote.
"I know that the commercial wrl fishery is the lifeblood of many towns on our west coast and that the export dollars they earn are good for the economy as a whole. However the pathetically small recreational allocations being suggested by IFAAC is for the protection of the few and to the detriment of the majority.
When increased natural population growth is taken into account the size of the rec allocation should be twice what is being suggested - and this would STILL leave 90% of the catch to the pros"
This was 2006 dude.
And because no one listened to me (and others) this is the situation you are dealing with now.
So give me a break about being jaded would ya.
The other thing I wrote at the time was this "But what I find most disturbing is that the commercials are largely unhappy about even this meagre 4.9% recreational allocation. Some table slamming pros have even spouted concerns that the recreational sector is endangering the whole industry"
Sound familiar Rob?
Now the attitude within the very powerful rock lobster council has somewhat moderated from back then but they are still a rather entitled mob and I very very much doubt that they will see the fact that some recs are catching more than they and their family personally need in a very positive light despite how wonderful and egalitarian giving away crays may seem.
I might be wrong but I doubt it.
So this is where my opinion comes from. I would like to think its a well informed opinion.
As to why I dont get listened to - I just think beurocracy and people are stupid and lazy (not yourself just in general)...and vested interests are selfish so amongst all this good ideas get lost. I have had some ideas listened to and implemented over the years but they have been small victories. I have got to watch the trainwrecks caused by no one listening though many many times.
I still get involved where I can...but unless your fisheries minister I think its fairly pointless especially after years of not getting listened to depsite being right most of the time.
And to be fisheries minister would involve fellating more people than I'd be willing to. :-)
But I might get on my knees one day to reach that goal...who knows.
You don't have to listen to me mate. It's all good. I applaud you for at least being involved. That's a good thing.
Rob H
Posts: 5744
Date Joined: 18/01/12
The reason is the
The reason is the following.
I have been involved in both the lobster and demersal reference groups for some time.
Aside from the feel good factor of giving something away to a deserving person which is a major drawcard.
Something that has become obvious to me is that there is a 3rd corner in the management process.
The more you are able to share the love, the more people have a connection to the sector and are willing to be motivated to supporting our access.
This will be a factor in the future.
I've read the various responses above, and will add that I think our sector has a WAY better chance of surviving by having a strong and obvious social conscience that by appearing elitist no matter what the actual reality is.
Don Punch sees we give lobsters away? Whoopty doo, he is simply a puppet like Kelly was and will be moved on once this has played out just like Kelly with the quota grab.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
hezzy
Posts: 1519
Date Joined: 27/11/09
while i applaud your motive
while i applaud your motive rob
i would point out that most people even rec fishers are very hard to get engaged in doing something to support or lobby the gov , even with the rec demersal issues which have been as big as it gets only 6000 people out of a possible 700 000 where willing to complete the survey ,,
and i ask you to ask the minister and the dept to define ''access '' they have in the past been very quick and willing to reduce our access even when recs did not cause any overfishing issues ,, and i believe gov of the future would act the same reduce our TAC or bag limit etc etc if they believed many recs where simply giving a large share of their catch away ,,it adds weight to one vocal groups lobbying to reduce the recs take , or access via bag limits, reduced season etc
recs imo need to think carefully about future strategys on how to increase our share in the futre as we hit the 5% and while giving crays away is a noble idea it does not fit into a future management strategy imo at all but i will be happy to discuss with you privately on your thoughts
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
Lefty 44
Posts: 146
Date Joined: 04/12/17
About half.
I would generally give away half of what I catch. Plenty of Xmas crays for everyone.
The rest would generally be cooked when we have people over or going to peoples houses.
The last few years I have averaged 50+ crays/year.
sea-kem
Posts: 14853
Date Joined: 30/11/09
What a joke, it seems the
What a joke, it seems the government have got us right where they want us, too scared to even discuss the joys of fishing and being generous with our catch and sharing with friends and family.
Talk about kill the spirit.
Love the West!
Bodgy 79
Posts: 263
Date Joined: 04/08/22
I've been knocked a few
I've been knocked a few times for supposedly being greedy with fish,3 on board,15 cat 1 fish,few nanny's and tuna on top.A few fillets go to friends & fam,wings & backbones on bbqs,Thai lady Dhu heads and even the dogs get a few of the bigger tails.I've posted on a different topic last week that at least all the rec catch stays right here for all to enjoy.I also notice that most noise comes from people with empty buckets,some are just jealous imo.
little johnny
Posts: 5329
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Very
True , straight to the point .
rob90
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 06/02/13
I only get annoyed when I
I only get annoyed when I gotta wait at the ramp for an hour in the mornings then everyone infront is talking about how they hate crays, don't eat crays and just give them away. Not knocking it but maybe if those people don't put their pots out it would be a smoother season for those of us that love crays to eat all year round. And let's be honest there are a lot of people making extra chrissy cash off them rather than for the love, just saying. But I could just be one of those jealous empty bucket fishos haha
Hi my name is rob............. and I'm a........... fishaholic
davewillo
Posts: 2254
Date Joined: 08/09/16
I don't catch them and don't
I don't catch them and don't get given them much. Brother-in-law brings some tails on Christmas Day and that's enough for me really. I might drop a couple of steel mesh pots at Rotto this year and just bait them when I'm over there. Never going to get many doing that.
PGFC member and lure tragic
Bodie
Posts: 3758
Date Joined: 05/11/07
Im not too sure what
Im not too sure what difference its going to make, apparently there is already a motion to close the migration period of Crays (Whites run)........ the argument is that most of the whites have not had a chance to breed.. Another fishery they are trying to lock down for the commerical benefits...
Brock O
Posts: 3163
Date Joined: 11/01/08
Not surprised to read that
Not surprised to read that Brodie, and reading the above maybe Rob already has an insight on it.
The world is totally big business getting richer while we pay more tax etc etc.
hezzy
Posts: 1519
Date Joined: 27/11/09
ok .... let me say i enjoy
ok ....
let me say i enjoy every type of recreational activity that involves being on or in the water catching something and im not too bloody bad at it either i can say ,,,,,,, but you wont see me post up much on social media about it every week , wether its crabs , marron , herring demersals abalone , netting or whatever i run with the mindset that less advertising is better , that is just me
so understand i am not posting from a place of envy etc ,
iv been on the recreational rock lobster advisory committee for well over a decade , helping to put my 2 cents worth into how our cray seasons and access to the rec TAC is managed and develop strategies for the future management as rec fishers numbers continue to grow
the current TAC is basically divided between the commercial fishers who get 95% of the TAC and the rec fishers who get 5% of the tac,
now in the 1990s rec fishers where only catching about 2.5%of that 5% allocation , so no one worried too much about recs getting afeed or giving crays away ,, as we where well under the allocated TAC of 5%
now move forward to 2021/22 season and we have over 50000 rec fishers chasing crays all year round , plus we have new trial rock lobster charter industry that has grown over the last 2years or so to be takign around 14 tons of crays from about 39 charter boats, all of those crays are now coming out of the rec TAC of 5% ..
so currently now in 2022 the total catch by the rec sector is estimated to be at or over that allowed 5% ,,
so what will the gov, minister and dept do if the rec sector continues to catch more than our 5% allocation in the next few years ?
well a few clues is look to the current demersal situation , you wont see them give recs a greater % than we currently have without a massive fight from the commercial sector who are a very powerfull lobby group
so most likly the dept will suggest to the ministeer to use other tools to reduce our catch ,
lower the bag limit ,
shorten the season again , restrict you to one pot per person or 4 per boat again
reduce your at home possesion limit
re introduce a ban on taking setose
and there are many others i could post up as well
now we have all seen the market in china collapse, what if that continues and the local pros are wanting to sell more crays into wa , but make noises to the dept and minister that the market is being flooded with free rec crays being given away up to 50%of their catches ,,and the pros thus cant sell their crays here ?
do you think they wont want to stop you from doing it and thus reduce your access to be able to do it ?
essentially imo , if people on here are openly saying we give away up to half of what we catch , you are vindicating the dept, the minister and the commercials call to reduce your catch , season bag limit or whatever because you dont really need it in the spirit of the rec value , to ''catch a feed for the family and enjoy the experience along the way ''
sharing crays at family occassions is fine imo , i do it and have done for years, but i really hope people can see why it is not in your best interests to be trying to quantify it on a public forum
or you might end up with old mate in the dept using your info already posted here above to come up with a rule change that says , the average rec catches 50 crays ayear, and he gives half of them away ,, so they really only need a season of 6 months, a max limit of 25 per licence , with tags supplied for you to use ........ im not advocating tags at all by the way , but you might recall how many recs kept pushing this stupid idea of tags on every second post here and other places ,,and now low and behold the demersal charter guys will be gettign tags ? how long before the dept says hey lets take that to the rest of the rec sector/ demersals crays etc as it works very well for the dept but will kill your access to the fisherys
hold my beer , 6 years from now and yep you might have all of the above
apologies for the long post, but this is what i think many need to consider in regards to how this could play out ,
give away whatever you like , but think about how you advertise that gesture and how that information might be used
there are lots of stakeholders who do not wish to see recs share increase and this is very real into the futre that will need to be discussed and managed by all stakeholders, and none of them want to give up anything now or in the future
fire away if you like
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
swarf
Posts: 54
Date Joined: 07/08/13
well said
well said hezzy, why give them more ammo
carnarvonite
Posts: 8627
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Spot on
Couldn't have put it down any better that that Mike, well said
Jamie-Chester
Posts: 114
Date Joined: 28/07/10
Exactly.
Exactly.
Brock O
Posts: 3163
Date Joined: 11/01/08
Pretty sure Setose are off
Pretty sure Setose are off the menu already.
Hezzy..I've missed the bit how a tagging system would be a bad idea for demersals, you able to the basics on that ?
I'm ok with the new rules...Except Pro's being able to fish through the spawning periods. But I guess when that was raised it was like the Government trying to tax the Big Banks or Oil and Gas Company's.
stricko
Posts: 222
Date Joined: 10/05/10
stricko
Posts: 222
Date Joined: 10/05/10
Ha ha tried to put up a
Ha ha tried to put up a thumbs up hezzy as you nailed it. do what you want with your catch but recording it and such not a very good idea.
little johnny
Posts: 5329
Date Joined: 04/12/11
I can see your point hezzy but
I’ve never understood the rule change . Taking oversize females ( stupid main breeders ) taking females with hairs . ( stupid) taking female blue crabs ( stupid) . I hope if I make it to pensioners age my kids would Do the same for me .drop feed of seafood of every now and again . Some people can not afford good seafood . My parents love it when I go fishing ( fresh fillets) all rapped ready to go . They haven’t got that sort of cash to buy prize seafood . There is always something they try use against fisherman / hunters / campers / grey nomads /4wd drivers doesn’t matter what you enjoy there is always something someone will use against you enjoying yourself . Fuck me now they’re attacking Santa on news ( to fat) . If you can not share your good fortune with family members life would be pretty sad . Also I can honestly say I have not heard of a poor pro fisherman , pretty sure most own multiple of everything . Not to many doing it tuff .once again take of the poor give to the rich .
hodge
Posts: 71
Date Joined: 03/09/07
Little johnny
I completely agree with you.
I can only speak from my personal position.
But i know a lot of people that cant afford to buy seafood. Let alone own a boat to go and catch their own seafood.
Being lucky enough to be in the financial position to be able to afford to own a boat and pay for licences and bait and fuel etc etc.
I only see it as a good thing being able to pass on a few crays and fresh fillets to people that cant.
If they want to look after the fishery for the future, in particular crays. They should be restricting the take of the big breeders and setose.
tcarroll
Posts: 250
Date Joined: 17/12/13
I don't think we are talking
I don't think we are talking about not sharing with those less fortunate or otherwise, we all do it and it's a great feeling! I think the point is around making that information and the amount publicly available...... some people are more risk averse than others, but when it involves something you love, may be better to err on the side of caution.
little johnny
Posts: 5329
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Well I must have not understood
Anything about this post . My impression is it’s about how many you give away . If you give x away a year means your getting to many ? Could be wrong . I’ve been wrong many times before
tcarroll
Posts: 250
Date Joined: 17/12/13
Agreed
Yes I think that's what the premise of the original post was, and others are sharing the view that they don't believe quantifying the amount that you give away is a wise decision.
i won't profess to be able to decipher other peoples comments either so I may also be off the mark!!
tcarroll
Posts: 250
Date Joined: 17/12/13
Agreed
Yes I think that's what the premise of the original post was, and others are sharing the view that they don't believe quantifying the amount that you give away is a wise decision.
i won't profess to be able to decipher other peoples comments either so I may also be off the mark!!
still trying
Posts: 1020
Date Joined: 27/06/17
It's a public forum they
It's a public forum they want us to post nothing on it
rather be fishing
sea-kem
Posts: 14853
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Yep something like that Guy,
Yep something like that Guy, it's like a smackdown.
Shhhhh don't tell anyone what you catch and do with it, what a fucken joke.
Love the West!
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8048
Date Joined: 07/05/12
Giving away crays is nothing
Giving away crays is nothing but a status symbol position IMO. I am not fortunate enough to have access to a couple of decent lamb racks so if anyone is feeling generous...
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
Bucko
Posts: 138
Date Joined: 08/05/10
I don't fish for crays at
I don't fish for crays at all, and maybe I'm missing the point here, but how the hell is 5% for the rec's fair and equitable.
Maybe if we had 50% of the total catch, which would obviously be hard for us to take with the current rules, no WA local would ever have to buy crays. There would be plenty for all....
Ha ha, I'd like to see that....
Would be like Qld, spear away boys....
timboon
Posts: 2924
Date Joined: 14/11/10
Morning fellas, Xmas morning
Morning fellas, Xmas morning so I hope you have a good day...
I can see both points of view here and there is no wrong...
I think Rob is certainly correct, getting the "other" party on the side of the rec fishers in the way that giving the odd feed of dhu or crays away and hoping their voice sides with our at crunch time may not be a bad idea but I also strongly agree with hezzy and others that boasting about how many you catch but how few you keep is fuelling a fire that is smouldering away in the background.
Jamie.... You mentioned that pro fisherman are the lifeblood of a lot of small coastal towns... That is no longer the case. I'm from SA, I'm currently seeing family in my old cray fishing/trawling town called beachport in SA. Once the fisherman ran the town ( only 30 cray boats and 5 deep sea trawlers )....
That is not the case now, the money pours in from everywhere, the Chinese market has crashed and the town has moved on from the reliability of Cray money in the town.
Right now the Chinese AREN'T BUYING, nothing, nada...
A pro here told me a few days ago that Western Australia has just had an 800 T a year increase ( Rob or he's can you confirm ), the TAC of the southern zone is 1250 total and WA boys just had an 800T increase, that is huge but I guess it matters fuck all this year coz no one is even buying. If they not buying the better quality/tasting southern crays then the westerns are fucked.
The people in China got their wish, the country is open but I'm thinking that could be a long term loss for the cray sector.
Sorry to waffle on...
Hey frosty, I've got a couple of roos tails hanging in the sun you can have when I'm back if you like. No lamb racks sorry mate.
Boon