what ells would you catch up that way, i wouldnt expect very much wen they are comming into our water to fish???
jonya

a) you underestimate fishing in indonesia
b) you're making a sweeping generalisation of things
c) you probably don't understand the situation (not that i condone it)

when you are poor, have no food, have no money, have no shelter, have a family, and are willing to cross dangeous seas in a rickety piece of crap and risk being killed at sea by the elements and authorities, you have no choice.

you think living on welfare is bad? there is no welfare. No dole. No govt payouts. zilch. try living on that.

you lock them up, ship them off, burn their boats, whats that going to do? they still need to eat. they still need to feed their kids. they still need to survive.

easier said than done huh?

I don't condone it, but it doesn't mean I look down on them and adopt and air of superiority.

You make a fare enough point, but I can a sure you I am very aware of what the situation is like because I feel very strongly about it. I am only going ot state my understanding of what I think is going on. First of all I’m sure you are aware that there is over 2000km of ocean including two different seas needing to be crossed to reach Australia. I think sometime in the late 1970 there was this agreement by the Indonesians and australians that there would be a 200nm AFZ set up! There is a great deal of water between there and Indonesia and I guess your right in saying the fishing couldn’t be to bad over there so why would they need 2 come all the way ova here to fish our waters? Shurly there is enough fish to sustain there families or have they been all fished out, why should we give up our fish that we take so much care in releasing and looking after so that they are there for the future! If we accept what they are doing then who knows what it will be like for our kids in the future, it is illegal after all and remember that they have no fish limit bags… Not that I believe the news but I was watching a program quite recently and they had footage of them actually setting foot on our land with there chickens (chicken flw) and foreign animals, when Australia work soo hard to make sure that those kind of things are kept out of the land.

As much as itr doesn’t sound it I really do support places like bali I have been there a couple times, it’s a shame that there have been so many terrorist attacks and threats that they are becoming more and more corrupt as a result of less money inflow to the country from tourism, and all I can say is that thank g-d that we don’t give the same punishments to them as they would do to us for comiting an offence because then there would be a lot of proplems

jonya

I agree with the fact that what they are doing is wrong but when considering their situation, well, they have no choice. I would do exactly the same.

I really don't know enough to be saying something like this and I'm not sure how this comment will stand but I think that their Government should be doing more to help them out.

Just out of curiosity Kasey, what's your background?

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Jay Burgess

Good to keep this discussion 'healthy' guys, I'm not singling anyone or anything out.

Of course it is wrong. But it really is hard to rectify. I remember I was speaking with a good friend's dad back in KL, and he was the head of some reef research etc thingy.

What he related to me really opened my eyes (about the state of marine parks in malaysia and the health of the local fishery):
"you can create as many marine parks as you want. but people will still fish in it. why? they need food, they need money. they may have been educated that using it for tourism makes more money, and that they may be better off. but from their point of view, what are they going to do in a tourist marine park? open a restaurant? rent out scuba gear? they don't know how to do that. they can't WAIT to do that. they need food and money, and they need it now. so they do what they know how to do... fish. its a cycle. and they get poorer from less fish, so they fish more and keep ever smaller ones. if you want to stop the problem, go to its root; just creating a marine park doesn't get rid of the problem, it just sweeps it under the carpet."

I don't know how much this relates, but I guess my point is.. increase the patrols, etc they're still going to come. they need the food. until they get the food and money, and other factors that drive them, its a hard problem that has the nations' leaders in a bit of a tangle. of course, not all of them are like that, some are just dirty, greedy b*stards that deserve to be shot and have their boats burnt down.

i;m not trying to propose a solution; thats way too complex and beyond me, I'm just trying to convey different points of views =)

My moderator skills are a little poor (only did admin 101 with Adam and didn't get up to the moving threads subject), so I will suggest he packages this thread up under a new forum header when he returns in the morning, so we can continue to discuss this important topic, rather than inadvertantly hijack a great pic from Jay's gallery.

Kasey
I am with you all the way