The ducks nuts can be found I am reliably informed on one legged ducks that swim in circles! ;o)

VHF are not that long a range radio BUT they are a much more clean signal (less background noise / distortion) than a 27 meg.

VHF are basically line of sight, but very clear within that range!

That said - line of sight transmission receiving distance is increased markedly IF you have a longer aerial, mounted as high as possible on the vessel (this helps extend straight line transmission distance before curvature of the earth beats you!) You can only transmit at the mex wattage the radio regs allow, which is what the best units transmit at.

More wattage doesn't make it go much further.

20 Nm is stretching a VHF!

The 27 Meg on the otherhand does much the same distance 'except that' due to it's wavelength, it is capable of sometimes multiple "skips off the ionosphere and the ocean or land around the earths curvature over sometimes long distances!

There is just a slim chance some Radio ham in America MIGHT hear your mayday transmission even if no one nearby you does!

So 27 meg has that slight advantage in distance terms!

You don't need a radio operators license to operate a 27 meg marine band radio - as a result every meathead CB yahoo on long weekends holidays and weekends etc will be screamin their head off into the 27 meg all day long rendering its use for any serious rescuing function pretty much almost useless IMHO.

The VHF requires you to study and pass a MROCP (Marine RADIO OPERATORS CERTIFICATE OF PROFICIENCY) which is a federal dept communications qualification that qualifies you to use a VHF, HF & UHF radios.

Because if you goof around on a VHF you can lose your radio license the behaviour tends to be a LOT more prefessional.

You don't need a MROCP to sell or BUY a VHF - only to transmit on it - so - if you were like most rec users and only wanted it for EMERGENCY use - likely you could buy & install one and get away with not having said MROCP if your not game to study 3 days and pass a test to get one!.

Hope this helps!

State Marine Transport Authorities won't allow a boat fitted with 27 meg and VHF radio out past 20 Nm in their surveys of commercial charter / paying passenger carrying vessels. That should give you some idea of what distance a VHF is good for!

However the same boat fitted with a HF radio (which does go a LOT further than VHF & 27 Meg) will be allowed 30 NM survey!!

HF marine radios cost in the many thousands $'s!

Cheers!

well bugger me i thought it was the other way around as far as distance was concerned.thanks heaps flywest, your comments have pretty much answered everything i didnt know about both units and are very helpful
cheers micth

always in it just the depth that varies

Must say I that is extremely informative. Thanks Flywest.

I am not a technical guru on radio's - me and electrickery don't get on!

Maybe someone whos into radios etc as a hobby would know a lot more than me!

I just know what we were taught at our MROCP radio course and what I've found running the two radio's side by side in the boat!

Perth radio - on the VHF put out a marine forecast each evening around 6 pm? with that night and the following days forecast and it's quite detailed (just like the Weather beaureax web forecast for each section of the coast!

They also put over "securitay" advisories to commercial shipping etc on the vhf, such as a general warning of say someone reports a floating almost submerged sea container that could be a threat to vessels etc they will even give you the last known lat and long so you don't plow into it! That sort of thing!

VHF is very clear more like a telephone conversation.

With 27 meg you get all that static and background squelch noise etc - very annoying!

With VHF you CAN get DSC Digital selective calling etc which means two VHF's CAN get a privacy feature to talk to each other without everyone listening in.

They can be hooked to your GPS nmea output also and have a emergency mayday buttin that transmits your position lats and longs to probably no one in prticular, in a digitised burst that a computer can interpret at rescue authorities.

Theres quite a bit to VHF's - in features that a lot of people don't normlly use to their full potential.

I don't think youd regret having one and they arent that much dearer than 27 meg.

I'm trying to get a hold of a 2nd hand marine HF radio so I can extend my survey distance offshore to 30 miles!

7 grand + for a new one is rediculous!

Cheers!

Extremely handy to know Flywest... Onya.. Diong some study to use a bloody radio seems odd though doesn't it!! Nice one Cheers.

The MROCP radio test is multiple choice and not THAT hard if you have a good memory and study the books on it hard! I cheated and went to the 3 day course at the maritime college - where they teach you to pass the test (rather than how to actually use the radio)! :rollseyes:

At the end of the day - whatever gets you thru I guess!

Honestly, I have forgotten all the frequencies etc that you have to memorise for HF radios, because we don't have one and so I'm not always using it. What I do is get the "help stickers" from marine transport/fisheries and plaster the inside walls of the cabin with as many as I can - usually - you can find the details you need at a glance around the cabin walls for fish lengths, bag limits, and markers bouys etc as well as radio channels and frequencies etc.

They do put out some good helpfull stuff the authorities - but you have to get into their offices quite a bit to pick up all the different ones available and keep them up to date.

The reason I do this - is because - even if you know it all, off by heart - there could come a day when - you get knocked out - fall overboard, have a stroke, or something and being a charter boat - someone else may have to bring her home!

It would be a very daunting thing for a complete novice to have to do!

BUT - if they have all the info they need on the stickers around the walls - as long as they don't pannic and keep their head - they could go slow - see a marker bouy - identify it by the stickers details on the wall - and then know which side of it to go.

Same with the radio - if they want to make a call and the channels etc and what to say are up there - then they only have to be able to read!

Heck - I still find myself occasionally looking up at a sticker when I can't remember something quickly or in enough detail - you'd be surpised how actually doing something - with the aid of the right info at your fingertips - builds confidence and experience quickly!

I can only encourage others to do likewise.

Heck I even manage to get around unfamiliar waters in the dark now - based on the knowlege & experience I gain each trip out!

Maybe more skippers should pay a little attention - to getting their helm stations up to scratch with the up to the date info.

The Dept Surveyors who do my annual survey usually don't give me a hard time because they can see I make a genuine effort to make the best possible use of the advisory stuff they print and to be familiar/conversant with it all!.

Thats my take on it - if anyone wants really detailed info on these VHF's, I can get out the actual books and copy in a few propper details - in factual method as in the book.

Look - in truth if anyone was interested enough - I'd be happy to do a night or two maybe where we do some basic manual navigation excerise with charts paralell rules etc if anyone is keen enough to learn!

It really makes using chartplotters and the like so much more easey if you understand navigation properly BEFORE you start relying on electronic instruments!. In truth your GPS and chartplotters etc should only ever be your secobndary method of navigation - not your primary source. They should just 'confirm for you' what you already know from your charts and compass, so that - you have more confidence in your manualy plotted courses!

As an example - when I took my boat to the Abrolhos islands last year!

I sat down for a couple nights with the charts and worked out my course for the way over and a reverse course all the way back. I did this manually! I write it all out and carried the charts and details of the courses and back bearings etc with me.

Then before leaving I manually programmed the course one waypoint at a time into the chartplotter and checked the course against the electronic charts to make sure - that I hadn't goofed on any of my waypoints etc.

Then when we sailed - we followed a compass setting, and kept an eye on the chartplotter the whole way!

It's a long way a 54Nm open ocean crossing - complete with cross currents & winds etc to compensate for, and you need to be on your toes the whole way if you don't have autopilot and are steering the whole course manually!

We ended up drifitng a little off course while my young feller was steering (to get some experience at the helm) - but I was able to see how much (from the chartplotter) and correct for it as we neared the islands.

The thing is - with long crossings like this - I couldn't carry enough fuel for a two way trip...I had spare fuel waiting for me at the islands sent across on the carrier boat for while I was there and to get home at the end of the season, BUT if my course was wrong and the chartplotter broke down on the way out - it's bloody easey to miss a tiny island altogether in a big ocean and if you do - your history if your short on fuel!

So - you do need to be pretty confident in your vessels range - your own capabilities and that your electronics are going to be reliable if the going gets bad!

I reckon we were 6 Nm south of our course after 54NM, with an inexperienced helmsman, and thats far enough NOT to be able to see the actual islands at all!

Without a knowledge of where we were - some landmarks to take bearings off etc - your cactus without a sextant basically!

So - if anyone DOES want to get some knowlege - then I'm happy to put in a couple nights at it with a small group of say 3 or so guys, who would like to learn.

Maybe we could do it in Mandurah - using my boat with the chartplotter, since I already have the charts for this area! Or we could do the Abrolhios islands crossing if anyone thinks they may one day want to go visit these islands with a boat!

I even have a Whitsunday islands chart here somewhere if anyone's thinking of heading to Queensland and wants to do a nav excercise where land is west of you instead of east!

If anyones not used GPS before and hasn't got any idea of how to navigate manualy - it might be an enlightening couple of nights or a weekend or something!

If theres any interest - to do something like this, over winter, - then post up on here and we'll see if we can get 2 or 3 who want to have a go!

I may charge a small fee just to cover a few hours of my time and any fuel we use on the boat actally running around the peel inlet course we plot, but I am thinking this wil be something where you spend maybe 50 bucks or something. It's just to cover costs, it's not a money making venture!

If theres some other aspects of boating anyone wants to cover that they think I might be able to include - then please ask - I was thinking we might even do a night navigation run around our plotted course!

So - whos interested??

Cheers!

Hey Flywest
I would love to have a dip at your nav course so if anyone else is interested i will pay.
On another issue i think I saw something in the Festering Australian (West Aust) that Perth radio and others are no longer going to transmit their nightly weather forecasts on marine radio ??
As a semi commercial chap can you enlighten us on this.
many thanks
Bags

Indeed Perth radio will cease broacasting as they have in the past if this link from the weather beaureax is anything to go by!

http://www.bom.gov.au/announcements/marine/seaphones/changes_vhf_marine_weather_services.htm

There is a considerable range of alternative and more comprehensive sources of broadcast weather information, provided or sponsored by other VHF and HF radio broadcasters including state maritime safety organisations and volunteer organisations such as the Volunteer Marine Rescue and Coast Guard. Most of these organisations broadcast weather information generally twice daily, both morning and afternoon, whilst some will provide weather information on demand. The Bureau is encouraging mariners to use these alternative sources in advance of the date of cessation.

Other Sources of VHF marine weather broadcasts

Western Australia

Weather and navigation warning broadcasts covering Perth metropolitan waters within 20 nautical miles are provided on VHF Channels 16 and 67 by the WA Water Police. Volunteer Sea Rescue Groups are based in most coastal population centres and operate within normal recreational boating hours.

For contact details of volunteer marine rescue groups visit the http://www.fesa.wa.gov.au/ web site and look under FESA approved volunteer marine rescue groups. For more details on marine safety, visit the http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/ web site and look under ‘Marine Information’.

The Bureau of Meteorology also provides a limited VHF weather service in WA. For details visit: http://www.bom.gov.au/marine/new_arrangements.shtml

VHF Marine Weather Services
The marine transport and safety agencies of the State and Northern Territory governments are responsible for the dissemination of maritime safety information, including weather information, for small craft (under 300 tonnes) on VHF radio.

Perth, WA WA Water Police 67

Rottnest I., WA WA Water Police 67

Bureau Met. Offices VHF marine broadcasts:-

Western Australia
* Carnarvon, WA 156.675/156.675MHz (ch73) 2205, 0405, 0805
0605, 1205, 1605 WST)
* Esperance, WA 156.625/156.625MHz (ch72) 2215, 0415, 0815
(0615, 1215, 1615 WST)
* Geraldton, WA 156.675/156.675MHz (ch73) 2215, 0415, 0815
(0615, 1215, 1615 WST)
* Broome, WA 156.625/156.625MHz (ch72) 2215, 0415, 0815
(0615, 1215, 1615 WST)

* Latest changes for Western Australia:

Effective 1 March 2006, the VHF weather broadcast schedules from Carnarvon, Esperance, Geraldton and Broome have changed. The broadcast times have been standardised across these stations, except for Carnarvon which broadcasts 10 minutes earlier to avoid a frequency conflict with Geraldton.

Notes
1. Announcement is first made on 156.800/156.800MHz (ch16) before moving to the working frequency.
2. The broadcasts include local coastal waters forecasts, warnings and observations. Provision is also made for mariners to call in with questions or updates.
3. Emission code is 16K0F3E (FM)

So - in a nutshell - the broadcasts are still there, they are just transmitted now by water police & beaureau meteorology as described above, and no longer by perth radio abnd on channells 67, 72 & 73 depending where you are! .

Hope this helps!

Basically - if your monitoring ch 16 VHF as you should be for any emergency Pan Pan Mayday or Securitay broadcasts, you will hear the forecast announcement made - with instructions to change to channel 67 (or 72 or 73) as the case may be - then you can flick over channel and listen to the whole message.

You can set your VHF Radio - to 'dual watch' both Ch 16 and the Weather channel (67, 72 or 73) and hear both without actually switching - however some prefer to dual watch the emercgency channel 16, and listen in to the normal chat channel - and only switch for weather twice a day as needed manually!

Thats my take on it at least!

Bag limit Boy - your numero uno on the list for nav - we just need another one or maybe two if anyones keen!.

If theres anything in particular you want covered - please mention it, so I can make sure it's covered well for you.

I could for example go into say - elements of successfull trip planning, such as tides, moon phases, and so on - in case anyone is contemplating holidays away up north or whatever...

There will be n test - you can take away as much or as little info as you wan't, it's not like you have to pass or fail anything, whatever you learn will be beter than nothing when it comes to sea man ship!

I don't claim to know it all - I am still learning something new every day myself! But - if I can pass on some of the skills I do know - then maybe that will help others.

I could for example maybe cover things like single engines operation versus duals, or vessel stability + metacentric height, righting levers and so on - or vessel construction - benefits of various materials over others.

It's up to you guys - what you want to know! It can be the bare basics or more advanced if you guys already have a good understanding of various theory or practical aspects.

I aim to give you knowlege you want rather than thrust stuff you may not want or need down your throat!

If theres an aspect of nav that pertans specfically to your own area - then let me know in advance and we will try and cover it.

Cheers!

Totally admire what your doing mate.. Thanx heaps. Would love to get down there and hear it in person so if anyone gets there to take on the knowledge..... pass it on.... Nice work Flywest
always in it just the depth that varies

Yeah I know what you mean Flywest the course at TAFE is a joke.
I had to do it for my coxswains course and at the time thought it would be good to learn all about the radios and their uses etc but how wrong I was.

We did the whole 3 day course and did not even pick up a damn radio now for 27meg and VHF that isnt all that bad as they are pretty straight forward but HF are complex buggers and I think you need to have a play with them to get any idea on how to use them properly. Needless to say the course I thought was a joke.

Think you can do them at sea rescue groups like Freo, my mate did one there I think and thought it was pretty good. They played with the radios and even did drill mayday/pan-pan etc calls on them so if you really want to do the course just remember there are alternatives to the TAFE one

Cheers

Gully

so the short answer is............?

Dude, flywest, it's very apparent you've got a lot to offer, but man, do u reckon you could keep ya replies to less than 3 pages........ i lose interest half way through your replies......;-), they be toooooo long brother JMO

Hi Mitch,

Yeh VHF is the way to go regardless as it has a better scope over water and 27 meg is good for back up/boat to boat etc. I've got my VHF licencse and would recommend getting it through TAFE etc so your're all legal and clued up on Radio ediquette etc VHF range can vary from spot to spot as to the location of the "repeaters" up to 20nm is expected IMO

Short-n-sweet!!!! :) :) :)

Owner/Operator
Oceanside Tackle and Marine
364 South Street,
O'Connor, Perth WA
Ph# 9337 5682
Fishing/Boating/Dive/Marine
** OPEN 7 DAYS **

S & S ?

OK

F U

Cheers! ;o)

No need to get the nickers in a knot now Flywest. Maybe just occasionally a short post would be nice :)

I think the word is "succinct!" nyuk nyuk nyuk,
No - I think you can see, that this has mortally wounded my delicate sensibilities! he he he.

For anyone doesn't know - I was accidentally vaccinated with a grammaphone needle at birth, and haven't shut up much since!
In fact, my nick names "biro" - gauaranteed 1000 words in every refill!

Gimme a break you guys - most of what was in the last post was cut n paste from the communications people website in answer to someones question. Don't blame me, if they are vociferous on their web site - if the quotation feature worked - you'd a been able to see where my advice started and the web sites quotes finnished - I dunno why the html quote feature tags doesn't work here? Any idea Adam?

This keeps up cobber - I'll hafta find me another board to post at! ;o) he he he

http://z7.invisionfree.com/Fly_West/index.php?act=idx

Shh, don't tell anyone, just the beta 'testing' version - OK?

Cheers!

The competition hey, maybe I'd be better off not showing you how the html links work. :)

Hey Flywest, please don;t edit your own posts down as there are too many gems in amongst all the waffle. Your posts are very entertaining and informative. Sometimes its like finding a needle in a haystack, but by god those gems are always in there. I think Ryan was just yanking your chain, he has a sense of humour too you know.

Nice beta site mate, do those security guards work onboard, if you know what I mean? (Hehehe)

Don't worry Andy - I remember Ryan from Dirk Hartog Bonehead days and he's definitely on my OK list!

I've had that chain yanked by the best of them, and on more than one occasion!

The hides still thick as an elephant - kinda matches my skull! ;o)

Ahh - the boatshed guards...Andy - if only you knew...I do work in Security you know - and believe it or not so do an awful lot of lovelly ladies!

I'm sure to be talking to at least a couple tonight - anything you'd like me to pass along? ;o) he he he!

Do we have any female members here yet? :scratch head:

If not why not?

Much as you guys can fish - I gotta tell ya - most of yous is bout as a hat fulla - well you get the idea!

Some eye candy herebouts sure wouldn't go astray, or is this the Brokeback Fishwrecked site? :eek: :eek: LOL

C'mon you guys - it's the weekend, and it just occurred tome - what a great new range of boating bathers were due out for next summer about now!

Yup that Mandurah boatshows gonna be looking good this year! ;o)

Yes amazing the gettups some of these security gals wear to an interview for a job, Andy! LOL LOL

Bring on Summer, is all I have to say!

Cheers!

 nice