Advise - new vhf or 2nd 27mhz
Submitted by C.mon u Bastard on Sun, 2011-05-15 22:42
Considering buying a new vhf($275) or 2nd hand ($125) 27 mhz.
problem - boat cost me $1000 + $1500 (repairs etc).
love the boat, reliable, affordable and usuable - i've noted that i venture further (4km - 6km) as i gain more experience. If i purchase a new vhf($$$$), the risk of theft increases. If i purchase 2nd 27mhz($) i dont stress as much.
Not too intersested in general chat, only really need comms' for urgent or emergency calls.
Would anyone consider the cheaper (less desired by undesirables) 27mhz as satisfactory communications?
also note that saving for a vhf would take significantly longer.
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Feral
Posts: 1508
Date Joined: 01/11/06
ive been running just the
ive been running just the 27meg in my boat for years nad its fine ..
last week i bought a new vhf but thats just for a clearer chat with the local crew on an empty channel
hlokk
Posts: 4292
Date Joined: 04/04/08
I was debating the two for
I was debating the two for mine and went VHF. Reasons for VHF included: better range, less general chit chat, more used in non-metro areas (combined with the extended range). I think its clearer too? Some fancier features like DSC if you get a more expensive unit.
If you're not going super far out and dont need it for regional sea rescue groups(most which probably have 27 as well), then given the prices/savings/use/etc, makes more sense to go with the 27mhz in your case I would think. Unless all your friends have VHF only :p I think most people have 27, so quite satisfactory for communication and logging in/off. I had heard that some groups are phasing out use of 27 (or 'discouraged'), but no chance of that happening in metro any time soon, and I somehow doubt it'll ever happen anways (if it does, it'll take longer than the life of the unit anyways, lol).
Cammos
Posts: 606
Date Joined: 30/06/09
Dont forget the cost of the
Dont forget the cost of the course to operate a VHF, unless things have changed.
Brucesta
Posts: 1721
Date Joined: 29/05/09
the licence still exists but
the licence still exists but a discussion paper is currently out and open for comment on whether this band should be licensed for operators and i get the feeling this will not be the case in the future. can't say i've asked for it ever as a VHF user, gee even as a radio comms tech i don't have a licence to operate any radio
Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
VHF Licences
Are currently licenced under class licences, eg the manufacturer pays collectively for all users. It is suggested if you are using them to get a MROCP though.
PJAY
Posts: 1005
Date Joined: 12/05/09
for security of either radio
for security of either radio mount them in a bracket so they can be unplugged and stored inside the home....takes about 30 seconds to remove??
The Kimberley....perfect one day and more perfect the next!!!
Browny
Posts: 316
Date Joined: 04/01/11
I will probably be going down
I will probably be going down the VHF path myself.
(Also, from memory, Walpole is now only on VHF reception, not 27. other regionals are apparently following suit, but dont know the timeframes they're talking about.)
Agree with PJ. Mount so they can be removed is a good way to thwart the undesirables.
I just love Exmouth: Its a quaint little drinking town with a fishing problem!
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
Interesting that Walpole is VHF only
As VHF is bad for black spots out of line of site, and with the inlet mouth/hills I have had issues there checking in and adjusting ETA.
Reefmonkey
Posts: 711
Date Joined: 22/09/08
VHF If your using a HDS or global map GPS
Have a vhf myself, a DSC lowrance, it talks to my GPS with a distress calling button that send of boat details and position in emergency. has AM/FM radio built in think it retails in AUS for around $380. purchase from WMJ marine in US for $180AUD. think the non FM radio was around $140 worth lookin online if you can wait the 6 weeks postage it took for mine.
Always had 27meg changed to VHF as its monitored all up and down the coast for travelling.
Dave J.
hlokk
Posts: 4292
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Are the channels the same
Are the channels the same though?
Reefmonkey
Posts: 711
Date Joined: 22/09/08
Yea all same channels as in
Yea all same channels as in 16 is 16 71 is 71 ect ect. some come up with a different description for call, ship to ship and port ops but all descriptions are programmable and all can be re written, changed and customised
Dave J.
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
?
Channels are not the same. 27 Mhz = emergency channel 88, VHF = emergency channel 16/67, 70 = dsc alert channel.
Reefmonkey
Posts: 711
Date Joined: 22/09/08
Think holkk was referring to
Think holkk was referring to the VHF channels for a locally bought VHF to an imported US VHF unit
Dave J.
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
I dont think they are the same
I dont think they are the same, you have to select non international setting on VHF? I think they all come with an international(US) setting.
Edit: What I mean is 16/67 might be the same channel on the unit, but tx/rx on different frequencies in the US and around the world.
Reefmonkey
Posts: 711
Date Joined: 22/09/08
Hmm might have to read the
Hmm might have to read the manual again when i get back lol, dunno though used it every trip for the regional sea rescue groups and back home Vj6LQ CH73 with no problems, 16 and all works sweet. went through full functions and set up when i installed it but no mention of non international... hmm have a look wen i'm back home and double check incase i missed something, but it's never failed to do the job. and we call the local group every trip
Dave J.
Brucesta
Posts: 1721
Date Joined: 29/05/09
VHF Marine frequencies are
VHF Marine frequencies are internationally recognised and they don't change from place to place IMC 16 is the same everywhere as is 67, 21 etc etc
Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
From the Marine Radio Operators Handbook
Issued by AMC in Launceston who run the MROCP.
''Section 13 Transceiver Controls'
International/USA Control
This control may be found on some VHF marine equipment. It is provided by the manufacturer to permit communications with stations in the USA which do not conform to the international VHF plan. It is important that this control is kept in the 'international' position at all times unless in the coastal waters of the USA. Some manufacturers of marine VHF supplied to Australian Operators may have 'International' substituted with 'Aus'.'
I was lead to believe it was fairly standard. Its on my non dsc gme VHF.
Bryan
Brucesta
Posts: 1721
Date Joined: 29/05/09
trust the yanks to go their
trust the yanks to go their own way. I'm sure that most of thier frequencies are the same, especially 16, i'd be interested to see if anyone with an import boat had a VHF pre-fitted in yank land has any issues call VMR's and the like.
Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
It isnt the emergency channels
You are right, but it appears some set aside for coastguard etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_VHF_radio#Marine_VHF_Channels_and_Frequencies
glastronomic
Posts: 892
Date Joined: 16/02/11
simple awnser;How much is
simple anwser;
How much is your welbeing worth?
When in trouble out there $$ will not be the issue, but clear communication with the sea resque will!
Cammos
Posts: 606
Date Joined: 30/06/09
Should I bother with a
Should I bother with a handheld VHF?
Brucesta
Posts: 1721
Date Joined: 29/05/09
handheld would be my best
handheld would be my best call, with a spare battery too just in case. Takes away the possible theft issue too.
Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target
hlokk
Posts: 4292
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Handhelds wont have the same
Handhelds wont have the same range though, due to antenna, and possibly due to not having a high power option? I wonder how many people know their fixed units have that option though :p
just dhu it
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 14/05/09
location
you have not indicated what location you ntend using the boat and radio, if your in a metro town area i would extend myself and pick a new 27 meg radio as they do have a decent range and there would be more other boaties listening in , new unit because unless you know where its come from , it might be up for sale for a reason and this might end up your problem when you need it
Cammos
Posts: 606
Date Joined: 30/06/09
The abrolhos primarily.
The abrolhos primarily.
glastronomic
Posts: 892
Date Joined: 16/02/11
fixed
fixed VHF =25W
Hand held waterproof VHF =5W broadcasting power.
have all 3 as the handheld can come with me in the drink together with Epirb and because of it's battery is independant if batteries on board fail.
A decent saltwater wave over the top has the potential to short out all batteries on board.
A27meg radio is just about useless 20nmls from the coast/resque antenna base
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
Correct, but remember that VHF is only ~30nml
Line of site for VHF and the earths curvature and antenna height keep it down quite low.
hlokk
Posts: 4292
Date Joined: 04/04/08
I think I remember hearing
I think I remember hearing that 27mhz can be less clear at the edges of the range? So even if its 20nm, it might be hard to hear from 10-15? Though, keep in mind, even if you're 30nm out, you might still be able to get through to other boaters, so still makes sense to use the radio when the situations call for it! At least EPIRBs work any distance out. Pity the GPS versions havent come down as much as the regular ones though.
Being (mostly) line of site, having your antenna on the top of your roof as opposed to the bow, or having big swells blocking line of site can affect the range.
glastronomic
Posts: 892
Date Joined: 16/02/11
I beg to slightly differ due
I beg to slightly differ due to the height of the base antenna the distance is more like 50nmls on VHF.
You are correct that ship to ship VHFis between 20 &30nmls at best.
Brucesta
Posts: 1721
Date Joined: 29/05/09
well in theory yes but there
well in theory yes but there is tunnelling in the atmosphere as well, i have picked up exmouth sea rescue and even Adam and Lucky Tim chatting while in my boat off Karratha. 27MHz is a AM transmission, very small bandwidth, VHF is FM with a larger bandwidth so better clarity.
Tx in a radio is not as important as Rx. all radio power is represented in a logarithmic scale. double the power is 3dB more in output power. So 5W is 37dBm output power (not taking into account for reflections, cable loss, dodgy connectors) 25w is 44dBm output power. Now keep in mind your receiver will break it's mute if it's a good one around -116dBm (0.1^-11w) or somewhere around 100 picowatts. so having 25W isn't going to do stuff all for your range over a handheld, i'd put a bet that with the cable loss, a dodgy connector, chuck in a splitter which is carrying your stezza as well, some tight cable ties around your coax, reflections from a poor antenna position and salt water ingress to any connection and you'd be lucky to have 10w of actual transmitted power.
receive range is all then down to the atmospherics and the lap of the gods. smoke and mirrors gentlemen. 5w or 25w if you don't get through on one it's not going to make much difference. wait until night for better range and less humidity.
Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target
glastronomic
Posts: 892
Date Joined: 16/02/11
That makes all a lot of
That makes all a lot of sense.
It seems from your input that a good going over & soldered connections where ever possible is a must.
C.mon u Bastard
Posts: 25
Date Joined: 31/01/11
Thanks for the info. I am in
Thanks for the info.
I am in geraldton and tend to stick close to the main harbor. But as I said, the more confidence I gain the further I travel.
From my understanding 27mHz is to be monitored for a few more years. So I am thinking of staying with the cheaper tech.
may be easier for me to acquire a 27 mHz and an ePIRB.
A good quality life jacket is also a priority (have got required cheap jackets), from what I understand even if your call for help is received, it is still a strong possibility of an extended swim in the water.