by the way thats home made beef jerky in the bag!

There are other options (Spheros/Saragosa/Fin Nor) that dont cost the earth.....

Haha damn.

lol

Maybe its the menthol mix

it looks good

thats a very bad sign.

shitty looking die cast material.

i'll be keeping well clear. (but did look to have it's work cut out)

horse right their

Big believer you get what you pay for....

Can kinda picture the reel being pulled up smashing your bottom rod guide :P

Dont buy a ryobi either! Stella time

had the same problem before with another brand of reel

jerky doesnt give you the munchies like that. So you start eating your rod

bad luck on the reels tho real bummer..

Hope you werent chewing on them too:P

whered you purchase them btw?

a penn spinfisher will solve that problem, cheap and very good rep

bought them both from carry on fishing and camping world in kelmscot, they gave refunds on both reels straight away. Has any one used the fin nor reels as thats what i was originally looking at.

HI LURCHA...TYPE IN FIN NOR REELS IN THE SEARCH PART OF THIS PAGE...ALL COMMENTS WILL COME UP....bugger about the broken reels........my fin nor is great but yet to be really tested.

Ha, I knew those Banax reels were crap, time to trade up to something more substantial.

JMO

Cheers
Dale

That second sambo is a donkey, spewn the flash didn't go off, would nearly be a cover shot on any mag.

That sambo has got one hell of a "boof" head on it!!

 Nice fish!

im not out to put these reels down but i seriously doubt its from being dropped in transit as both boxes were in good conditions and the reels were given a thorough look over when bought. Also wondering what sort of fishing were these reels tested on? Was it heavy jigging for the likes of sambos or smaller varieties of fish? As i said earlier the reel is good apart from this problem!

I was at the shop when both reels were purchased & I thoroughly checked them over & they were in perfect working order & the packaging was unmarked. I was also fishing on the two days they broke in half & I guarentee if we had another one it will break in the exact same spot. It is obviously a bad design fault apart from that the reels performed beautifully smooth drag & great to use.

its ugly but the speroses do the job,saragosa look nicer,i got the stella 20000sw and its no fun mate u can lockem up and scull drag the sambos

If budget is a concern another option may be the Diablo reels by Tuff Tackle, I have seen these and they look strong,  were tested by charter operators before being released and they apparently passed with flying colours.  I think they are around the $300-400 mark.  I had a bit more $ to play with so got a Diawa Catalina - just waiting till april to put it through its paces.

Cheers

unfotunately i dont think we have any pics much closer than that but will check when i get home, there are a few different angles but not much else. The casing does seem thin compared to other reels but i think the problem lies in the placement of the screw, its right on the edge of the plate and would carry a a lot of pressure when under load. you can see in the pic its snapped around the screw. anyway onto the hunt for a new reel, i was actually looking at the tuff tackle reels but came across the perth charter that used them on another forum and has since raised concerns. seems our sambo jigging is the real testing ground for these heavy duty reels!  I was considering the diablo sniper 10000, has anyone used one of these?

cheers mate would appreciate that, dont want to buy something that hasn't been tested thoroughly. I zoomed in on the pic for ya, much closer and it started getting a bit pixilated.

Wouldnt waste my money on a Diablo plenty of other reels around that I would look at first.

The fin nor will do it, but remember it hasn't got instant anti reverse, I have used one jigging with no prob with PE8 on it.

If your serious about jigging then get an overhead they are built tougher.

hmmm a lot to take in, think i'll just hock a few things and go for the stella. Last thing i want is being up exmouth and havin a broken reel so i might as well go for something that has a good history. Cheers for the help guys

As I said the only prob with the offshore is the anti reverse it isn't "instant" if you can live with that then that is good, they are built tough, I would not hessitate buying one for GT popping with PE10, or Sambo jigging with pe8.

 I know of a 750 offshore thats been used weekly jigging for the last 4 years with just regular maint needed (grease the gears and clean the reel) they have one hell of a drag system on them.

PS I can't see anyone saying they are sambo jigging day in day out with the weather we have in WA , lucky to get 3 fishable days a week in summer.

IMO is the weight - they built like a tank but that means they are heavy suckers!

I'd hate to be casting poppers all day with it. Jigging would be less of a hassle.

Add > Also remember these reels are abused daily buy people who dont have good technique or know what theyre doing, I saw reels getting smashed into hand rails, no lift and wind on lowering technique, these reels cop some serious abuse on a daily basis, no wonder a few handles get broken occasionally.

Hi Kane,

That's exactly what I suspected about the handles on Craigs boat.

As soon as I saw the new pics on his website, and saw the hand rails, all the truth about the handles became very clear.

I've been on a boat with the same rails, and because there is no reverse switch on the reels, if the reel rolls under it, and the handle rolls up under the rail, the only way to get it out is to remove the reel from the reel seat, or bust off the handle, by slamming it up out of the rod holder and shattering the knob shaft.

Craigs boat is the only boat where a handle has ever been broken, except Nomad broke the male handle shaft on a 50kg plus GT in March 2009 during tests (Diablo 9000) winching 50kg at full lock, mind you they break everything Saltiga's Stella's Accurates etc. Which is easy to do in shallow reefs (pump/wind simultaniously by mistake @ 20kg drag.) The 9000 is 80lb not 100+ lb, so Nomad was suprised the rest of the reel didn't faulter. And to Damon's admission they pushed it way beyond it's recommended max 80lb line class.

 (pump/wind simultaniously by mistake @ 20kg drag.)

I don't care what reel is being used, that situation will break the weakest link in any reel, unless you're using a very low ratio overhead which is useless for jigging.

Nomad did all the initial trials of the Sniper, no probs. Except the Shafts got beefed up after the Nomad trial, because the Saltiga gear shafts bend, under a (pump/wind error) so we made it stronger than that, with a handle /gear shaft breaking load of 200kg.

Fact is you can't break the handles in a vice, when pushing by hand, you can if you strike it hard with a hammer (or hand rail) as the knob shafts are hardened 630 stainless steel (high tensile) As I don't know anyone that winds a handle with a hammer, it's not an issue. It's not a warranty issue, it's straight out miss-use. given the handle breaking staight is 200kg of direct knob pressure.

So I sent him rubber knobs, and will also be sending him a pic of how to modify the rails to comply with survey, with gaps infront of the rod holders.

He also told me punters where busting the Xzoga rods (4 is what he told me)

My Comment to Craig " Why hand over $1000 outfits to inexperienced punters, give them an Alvey and a broom stick, to jig with" Lately he told me he is instructing inexperienced punters how to pump and wind.

Simon

Are you saying an Alvey is stronger .

Can you show us just how to jig with an Alvey.

Do you have a PE rating for these reels, some PE lines don't give an actual breaking strain on the spool.

tufftackle, how is it you think his rails don't comply to survey?

seen plenty of "experts" rail a reel in my time too,not just on charter boats either.

if it was my gear i'd be going a broomstick to the back of the head to aid instruction.

I was on the charter with craig when I saw 2 handles go, from memory the handles went while people where jigging or had a fish on. Maybe a bad batch? You may not be able to break a newly manufactured handle in a vice, but surely this is different to putting it under repetitive stress and causing metal fatigue? on inspection of the other handles there appeared to be a bit of 'play' between the grip and the shaft which may have contributed to focusing the stress on the same area which broke on both reels

Sure not everyone has perfect pump/wind technique, but to be honest when you're using barbless hooks and you need to keep the pressure on while the boat is bobbing up & down to keep the fish hooked I reckon some pump/wind error is to be expected. After-all tufftackle markets the range as tougher than saltigas/stellas don't they? Sidenote: Craig was instructing the newbies on proper technique when I was there.

Keep in mind Craig does use 80lb braid (as the diablo was rated) and these reels were apparently only 1 week old. To be fair the fishing was crazy, and it was almost a fish each drop, so that would be ALOT of fish during that time.

Charter operators over west must do things differently, they love fishing and enjoy seeing ppl have fun catching fish! sure give them a broom stick + alvey to fish with, painful/less fun for the customers (that's if they manage to jig something with that crappy combo!) but make more profits. Or given them reasonable gear let them have fun, and they'll return for regular jigging trips during the season!

Exactly what you expected Simon? If you'd bothered to look into it instead of jumping to conclusions you would have found that the rod holders are standard height and the reels sit above them when stored. The 'truth' hey? Sounds pretty definative from someone who hasn't stepped on the boat don't you think? Besides, even if they get stuck, who's going to smash the reel to get it out?

As with breaking them with a hammer, again, you're jumping to conclusions. I was out when  at least 3 9000's broke on the day. The knobs that snapped off snapped off during pumping and winding, not on the rails and there  for cranking out instead of pump and wind... First you can't winch in sambos like that, it's pretty damn hard (have you been jigging?) and even a novice will pick that up pretty quick. Second, you said you can't break the handles by putting them in a vise and trying to break them by hand (you claim you need a hammer). So you claim it's s FACT you can't break them in a vise, but by having them on a rod now you can? Lol. Either you can break them by hand or you can't. Which is it? Are you suggesting people can apply 200kg of force to the handle when jigging? (or is it only the snipers that are 'tuff').

Though, the amount of force applied to the handle isn't what causes a knob to fail (a force on the handle creates a torque at the shaft at the base). If you'd bothered to look into it you'd find that the failure mechanism was not brute strength but something called fatigue. The knobs that snapped off clearly showed this (I.e. They didn't fail due to a single strong bow). Repeated flexing action causes failure after many cycles. You can't snap a paperclip with your bare hands... unless you flex it back and forth til it snaps. A well designed knob handle will prevent this (by design and tolerances). Let me know if anyone wants more details on this.
So that's the knobs on the 9000's, (though I did see a handle fail due to torsional shear). I haven't seen the 10000's in action though. I'm guessing the 9000's are still claimed tough though? ;)

You say the 9000's are 80lb reels not 100+. Ok, every reel has a rating but I don't think 80 is accurate. The drag the reels were set at wasn't all that high to be honest. They definately werent being pushed beyond their (claimed) limits. 
 
As mav suggested, how do you jig with an alvey, haha. Sure you've actually been jigging?

If I'm coming across as a little harsh, it's probably in response to your attitude Simon. I'm not intending to come across as agressive, but i do want to address the points (and i cam be fairly direct). Simon, this is how i see it: You have numerous grandiose claims on your website then you join up to a forum to blast a customer while jumping to several assumptions. Instead of suggesting possible causes, you directly accuse them. Had you demonstrated you understood how they failed, then perhaps my tone would be different. Instead of using it as an opportunity to improve your reels, you just stubbornly assert how tuff they are. I can't say I give much respect to a company that refuses to even entertain the notion that their reels could do with improvement or changes and instead asserts with much chest puffing just how strong they are as if to question it is to question the gods. If a user of your reels is wrong and misused them then there is a good way and a bad way to go about it. 

I'd love to see an Australian company take the heavy reel market by storm and create something just as strong as the stellas or saltigas (and at a slightly lower price). You're not going to get to that position if you just blame anglers instead of using that opportunity for improvement. Daiwa, shimano, etc are constantly improving their reels (and they haven't just started out). If you want the reputation and a position up there with the best, I don't think you are going to acheive it unless you change your attitude. Chest bearing and denying any negative feedback isn't going to get you there. 

Maybe I'm wrong though. Maybe I've got your attitude wrong. It's hard to be sure when you only have limited info... ;)

Keyboard heros at their finest

I have to admit i find it amusing another induvidual who was bagging them out for their handles breaking has another post wanting to buy a spare handle for a stella

What a read! Im with you Kane!

I don't usally get into this but there seem to be a lot of people on here bagging the sh1t out of reels. I understand totally that you get what you pay for with fishing gear and stellas and saltigas are the holy grail for a lot of people on here but spare a thought for someone who might have been saving up a bit of coin to get a $300 reel for sometime and all half the people on here can say is they are crap and you should have bought a stella.

It is a shame when gear fails but most if not all tackle stores would go out of there way to fix the problem and get the person out there fishing again as soon as possible.

Im going fishing, maybe some people on here should think about doing the same.....

Happy New year to everyone and hope its a good one! With Stellas or without.....

Are you saying an Alvey is stronger .

Can you show us just how to jig with an Alvey.

I was being sarcastic !! an Alvey is an idiot proof reel, but useless for jigging.

Hlokk, you seem to have totally disregarded Kane's first comments about the reels getting smashed into the rails.

Craig's boat is the ONLY boat where this has occured, After many conversations with actual pro's, that I deal with, and fish with on a regular basis, about craigs issue, that was taken very seriously, they and myself are completely dumb founded, by what the true cause is.

Without fracturing the handles with a hard shock, it's impossible to break the knob shafts by hand.

Craig told me the 9000's were set at full (20kg), winching against 20kg of drag, with an accidentaly fractured knob shaft, will eventually cause failure, and to re-iterate "you won't retrieve any line that way"

And you know so much about engineering, 630 stainless does not work harden, or bend, you are refering to other materials. Like I explained previously, it needs to be shattered. You would also know the ratios and design of an egg beater, makes them useless winches above 1kg, hence the need and sport of "pump and wind action " being completely different to a low ratio overhead "winch"

And while we don't supply every pro, because most are allready sponsored by other brands with FREE gear, some of them still use our reels for personal use, and highly recommend them to some of the 40 retailers we have, based on their performance, coming from highly respected pro's within the industry, who's lively hood depends on their recomendations, and industry respect.

One of those retailers in Karatha, who got onto us by a pro's recommendation, who I also discussed the issue with, he didn't get it either, he landed a 12' bronzie and a 47kg GT easily, but then again he knows how to use a reel properly for it's intended use.

I also know full well, by dealing with alot of pro's around the country, that alot of reels way above the $1000 mark, flog out and fail more than the sponsored users let on.

Another missing bit of usefull info, is most of the buyers of the 400 Diablo reels we sell each month, buy them because they want a reel they can use, without having to worry about wrecking $1000+ reels, they also own.

The other advantage is, if they do break something in an unfortunate accident, they can get the parts within 2 days not wait 3 months to get it from overseas.

Also missing is the reason Craig aproached us was to replace another brand that Hlokk recommends as superior, that all the gears totally stripped out in 2 months on his boat. Which is a very expensive fix to replace a whole gear set in a reel that cost him more than double the price of a Diablo 9000 reel.

So from all the info above it is obviously clear.

- The reels are getting smashed on the SS rails, (which could be modified and still conform with survey requirements) to remove the reel crash "damage" issue.

And reels sold to charter don't have a warranty, warranties of any brand don't cover "rental" which is what a charter is (you rent the gear) we just look after charter operations, even if they bullsh#t to us, we can still find useful info,  because the feedback we get from them goes into new product design, hence the Sniper 10000 is a design based on 3 years of charter feedback, and what fails on the $1000+ plus reels, has been deliberatley designed "out" of the Sniper. Every designed product by any brand has it's limits. Designing a new reel with a rubber handle, is not a great idea, to satisfy accidental damage.

The weakest link on the 9000 (if hit with a hammer or hand rail to fracture it) is a more convenient (cheaper and easy replacement) weak link than a whole gear box, rotor or body.

Line class for the 9000 is 50-80lb, the Sniper is 80-130lb. Treated properly and used as intended, you can't break them, and they certainly don't flog out.

I am not sure if there is any suggestion you can winch a 40kg+ fish with a more expensive Japanese spinning reel ??? And still no mention of the 4 broken $500 rods on the same boat.

While I appreciate you admire and respect your $1300 Japanese reel, there's also 1000's of our customers who feel the same about their $300 and $700 Australian assembled Tufftackle reels, that do the same job.

 Simon

what the........? i read the high lighted bits and it was still to long........ get out and fish!

well i was considering a tuff tackle reel at one point but i wonder what attitude i'd get if i made a warranty claim?? Surely theres a recreational fisho out there that has one and can put there opinion in!?!?

Stress less guys and keep fishing

Until we actually get back something to inspect, it's just 'here say'

Under a micro scope we can see if the knob shafts have been scored, basicly if we can't bust them bouncing off them with full force in a vice, the claims make no sense.

Anyone who knows how to use spin gear, knows you can't winch with them (any brand) Winching 20kg @ 4.1:1 = 82kg of handle pressure without any rod angle. In other words if you weigh 80kg you should be able to stand on your spinning reel handle with the rotor locked up. I don't know any reel on the market other than a 80W that might handle that sort of stress.

Breaking strain is 200kg, if you bounce 80kg repeatedly on the handle something needs to let go.

 Simon

I recentley purchased two Banax reels 750 and 850 I think they're up at my caravan and can't exactly rember the numbers,anyway they were recommended by the fella at cambells as a good 4kg outfit with a 10' sniderglass. I have now tried out both reels and am less than impressed with the performance. They seem to slow down at times and a little hard to reel when reeling in I think maybe a bearing issue,not sure. I know you get what you pay for but they weren't exactly cheap. I 'd probably get laughed at if I tried to take them back since they've both been used, I guess It's buyer beware.......

Thank's Adam will give it a go.

Cheers

Andy

Its the thread that just keeps going.

I've just got myself a kingpin 5000, so will be giving it some serious stick in the coming months to see what the story is.  Will be posting photos soon!

Lol, is that the whiff of 'product placement' I smell?

What line class is recommended on the packaging Adam?

pe 6 = 340

pe 8 = 270

pe 10 - 200

I'll prob look to some pe8.  Anyone got any good online stores for braid?  I'm a bit over the local Exxy prices...

Crank that drag and go and hook a few big coddly things that live around the drop offs over there. Repeat that on several trips and that should provide a fair test.

i hate banaxs, cheap crap, much prefer a old ss spinfisher, and a $300 reel is not cheap, for $300 a bloody reel shouldnt break on a first trip, too much pressure, i doubt it, doubt he woulndt be able to hold it if it was too much, this is what i think

nowadays it all about being light, reel just looks too light and thin for application

youll notice ss spinifisher are heavy, no plastic found on them

my best gues for these reels were a casting fault, a bad batch

hlokk what the hell are blabbing on about?, you said they ignored your first post

most of us here arent giant brains so just keep it simple

I've used the Banax reels whilst filming FWA and have been selling them for a long time now (since 1995). I rate them highly and product versus price they're VERY hard to beat!

As for shop returns, I hate getting gear back ie warranty claims and the Banax is a big seller in my shop yet they have the least returns. That has alot to do with the quality gears and still made in Korea!

One of my shop reel servicer/repairer (one of the best in the industry) rates them and has many himself. I hear many positive things said about Banax from customers and will always stock them & recommend for that reason!

Like any new reel released, there can be issue's and the new Penn Spinfishers had there problems when first released and they had to get that fixed so no brands are exempt of issue's!

Adam, I can organise some free braid for your Banax Kingpin, PM me for more info if ya want!

i dont know why people have to put such loooooooooooooooooong comments up about something that someone has metioned and then it goes back and forth. swhats done is done . i personally dont read all these long posts as it generally bores me. if some have had good reports on the reels mentioned then good on them and if bad so be it. others have got these reels and let them find out for themself what they are like.

Adam , go give the reel a great workout and let us all know how it went. it will be interesting

well said ff...

mate....if you dont want to read Hllok's major posts...then DONT. You shouldnt also tar every Banax as cheap crap. Sometimes the CHEAP CRAP will outfish the more expensive equivalent. Probably not in this case....

Ive had Saltigas with issues and also broken them on 10kg GT's!! Do I say they are crap because the $1000 reel just broke on a "small" fish??

In all fairness, the KingPin is identical reel to the GT 5000W which has been out for over 2 years. I havent seen or heard any of them break like this or any other major issues at all.

Ironically the Old Spinfishers are not whole lot better. They run brass gears and pinions, same as the OLD Banax SX. Skirted and lipped spools with cast handles. No different to the Banax SX.

I understand $300 is not cheap but you cant just jump into conclusion that all Banax are cheap crap!! Infact Ive got a Banax SX 5000 and its nearly 15 years old. I run 10kg mono on it for snapper fishing off the rocks. Only thing Ive replaced on it is the drag washers. Upgraded to the HT100. My two 8500ss have gone through numerous AR dog gear and pawl due to "fatigue". Ive also replace one of the reels drag knob 3 times coz it keeps on cracking.

So IMO the Banax is just as good as the Penns if not better.

Well said Chinny

OK, Oceanside Tackle and Marine will lend (bomerang) a brand new Banax Kingpin 5000 reel with it being fully spooled with 80LB Bonzai Chameleon Supersoft XT colour coded braid to a regular FW member.

Now that members needs to be a "regular" and one that "wants to test it out" yes punish it over the next 4 weeks.

A free product will be supplied as a token of good will on return, PM us and we'll contact that right person for an independent review.

yeap sorry everyone just thought why  has this reel broken if its $300 and then heard from you honsu that you havent heard of this before, its easy to jump to conclusions.

its just that on recent trip to the plantation in carnarvon found a 850SS in the shed which was about 20 years old and was not well maintained, took to quobba hooked a HUGE cod and the reel and it fought like new but the cod was unstobbable and the reel done fine the whole trip

i've now got 650ss and love

but the cheap stuff is often very good as i had some cheapies for $30 and and had silky smooth drag and caught marvellous fish

guess i'll be eating my words when somthing eventually goes wrong and i be taking it to you guys lol

and about the cheap stuff outfishing the pricey stuff i sure understand that, and evryone i know in carnarvon use 50lb-150lb handlines and they have caught 21 kilo GT's off the beach, and in quobba the cheap handline shines being able to heave fish up with getting busted off and without a gaff

its just when you have luck with a certain reel you love them

anyway better not argue with the experts 

it would be great if you could put a post on that banax kingpin and short report on how it goes performs as these banax reels sound pretty good after what honsu has said

and sorry hlokk as i shouldnt said it that rude what i should have said was i just found it a bit hard keep up.

honsu whats this sx 5000 you speak of that lasted 15 years, do you think theyll be a better choice instead of my next spinfisher

do you stock them?

how much?

they look exactly like the old spinfishers

No worries Wideopen. Just trying to keep everyone on the straight and keep all opinions open.

This is the current Banax SX 5000 with a couple of better bits than my oldie....

.