Boat that just about breached ,need help
Gday ,was out and about a couple of days ago in my Westernberg ali plate 5mt runaround with my father in law driving when a pretty sketchy thing happend ,not onec ebut twice,as we were going along with the swell the boat got picked up and dug itself in ,with a fair bit of water coming over the starboard side ,that was a heart starter ,opend up the scuppers and all was good ,after a few hours fishing with not much luck was time to head home when we were close to the mariner the backwaqsh off the sea wall made for a bit of a washing machine, and lightning never stikes twice but the same thing happend again but a bit more of the boat went under ,esky,s fishing rods and any thing else went flying to the starboard side dead set thought we were going tio flip ,what i was wondering was ,i bought it second hand and the old fella i got it off added about a meter to the back ,but on the hull where it,s been added to there is no keel ,it stops where the original hull was ,was just wondering if anyone has any suggestions on what to do ,got a couple of kids that love fishing ,but won,t be taken them out till iget this problem solved ,someone said to extend the kell all the way back ,any help would be grear cheers Banjo
G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No
striker
Posts: 226
Date Joined: 26/09/14
No expert and Haven't experinced
that sort of moment myself but you could look at trim tabs or a hydrofoil stabilizer for the engine, sounds like in a cross swell it wants to corkscrew.
sea-kem
Posts: 14959
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Have a talk to Epic marine
Have a talk to Epic marine site sponsor. He'll have the right advice for you.
Love the West!
North Coast Marine
Posts: 74
Date Joined: 23/05/16
Keel won't make too much
Keel won't make too much difference, it's more of a structural thing than handling on that size boat, I would avoid hydrofoils as I have seen them dig in in similar situations you are talking about, I would adjust your driving style maybe, trim engine up to lift the nose and when you feel it start to dig sometimes putting a bit of power on to lift the nose is better than backing off hope that helps
Paul H
Posts: 2104
Date Joined: 18/01/07
Don't know a hyrofoil would
Don't know a hyrofoil would be the answer may even make things worse.
Need more detail as to exactly what occured -
did the nose bury into the back of a swell ahead or was it coming down the swell?
What was motor trim at the time?
Speed (including relative to waves)?
add on pics?
Youtube Channel - FishOnLine Productions
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Rig
Posts: 2925
Date Joined: 27/12/06
broach
westerbergs generally have a fairly flat hull particularly if they are an older model. This makes them a fairly stable boat particularly with a following sea. Deeper V hulls tend to be a bit more prone to broaching
first thing to do would be check your trim, nose up when coming home with a following or sideways sea
aaasnapper
Posts: 218
Date Joined: 15/01/10
Stabilisers
Sounds like its broaching in a following sea?
You may need stabilisers
wwww.boatcollar.com.au
or
even a hydrofoil on the leg of motor may fix it.
null
chris raff
Posts: 3257
Date Joined: 09/02/10
Should get a pic up for a
Should get a pic up for a bit of scrutiny on the hull .. what was the swell / conditions like on the day was this it’s maiden voyage with you at the helm
“Intelligence is like a four-wheel drive. It only allows you to get stuck in more remote places.”
Banjo100
Posts: 34
Date Joined: 22/03/15
the swell wasn,t big ,just
the swell wasn,t big ,just the wash off the sea wall,my father in law the skipper ,he,s got two speeds stop and flat chat ,i told him the first time to sit on 3300 rvs ,but to no avail , have had the boat for a year or so and this is the first time it,s happend maybe my skipper was going too fast ,but would still like to sort out this cheers
G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No
Bodie
Posts: 3758
Date Joined: 05/11/07
North coast is spot on, a
North coast is spot on, a lot of Ali boats broach when surfing swell. Suggest when a bigger swell comes in or you feel like your starting to surf, back off on the power a little bit will solve the problem mostly.
Its probably more noticeable when your going over 3 mile or shallow reef where the swell stands up and has a steeper front face.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8665
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Hydrofoil
If its fitted with a hydrofoil then remove it asap, they give the stern lift and in a following sea it can be deadly.
As others have stated, trim the nose up and back off on the throttle, better to slip back up the face of a wave instead of ploughing ahead into the back of the one on front.
Swompa
Posts: 3871
Date Joined: 14/10/12
Tilt up motor to lift the
Tilt up motor to lift the bow right up should help. My boat likes digging a trench when in a seaway but never wanted to broach. Tilting up makes the ride a bit more pleasant.
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
To get real good advice on the problem
I think the best thing to do is to take a couple of good photos of your boat (from the stern and bow) and go to one or a couple of boat builders who support this site and gain there professional opinion on what is causing you to have so much excitement.
Banjo100
Posts: 34
Date Joined: 22/03/15
thanks heaps to everyone
thanks heaps to everyone ,will take a couple of pics and post them,
G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No
Crikey
Posts: 41
Date Joined: 25/03/10
Try shifting weight from
Try shifting weight from front to back also can make a big difference in a following sea.
Feral
Posts: 1508
Date Joined: 01/11/06
having owned a few old
having owned a few old westerberg of that size I'd suggest you are going way to fast and motor trimmed right down. And that's a horrible idea in following sea in any boat.
I'm presuming you have a skippers ticket yourself? If not I suggest you get it and you drive the boat yourself don't let idiots drive ( father in law or not) as it will wreck your motor, the gear you just flooded and maybe cost you your life.
Learn from mistakes but stand your ground. If it's his boat etc. Then just don't go out in it
Banjo100
Posts: 34
Date Joined: 22/03/15
Thanks,have had skippers
Thanks,have had skippers ticket for a few years,been out in the boat heaps and never had this happen ,like you said I think my in law was not driving it in a sensible way , too fast ,so next time he'll be the decline like it or not ,will also trim the motor back a bit if there's a following sea ,thanks heaps
G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
feral totally agree banjo
feral totally agree
banjo id take that advice and follow it up asap
id also be checking how front heavy the boat was loaded ?? how much gear was in the nose ?? how far forward are the seats positioned ,?? with a bit of gear and 2 solid boys in the seats /front of the boat @ 5 metres that and the motor trimmed down even a little will get you in the wrong place quick enough in a following sea at speed
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
Banjo100
Posts: 34
Date Joined: 22/03/15
Thanks,after the other days
Thanks,after the other days experience it can go pear shape in the blink of an eye,big fan of slow and steady cheers for the help
G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No
D_d_001
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 09/03/13
As most have said.... driver
As most have said.... driver take care.
Very hard to work out without much more info.
but. if the boat had a meter add to it, it may pay to have a look at where fuel tanks are (underfloor and too far forward ?/ fuel sloshing with no baffle)batteries etc are and general weight distribution is.
and FWIW :Hydrofoil ....not a fan at all.
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8140
Date Joined: 07/05/12
First thing I did was take
First thing I did was take off my hydrofoil after we got caught in the steep wake of a huge boat at Matilda Bay and got thrown to the side. Got much better control in following seas without it and no noticeable difference in getting up out of the hole.
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
Chinbald
Posts: 317
Date Joined: 21/02/09
Deep V long Aluminium
Mate has an older deep v aluminium 6m based on the Kolyn/ Star looking hulls. It can take off left or right and breach even in mild chop in the Mandurah estuary, its ok if you pick it coming, but can be dangerous if someone or something weighty goes arse over resulting in all weight on one side. Don't have an answer other than being aware and briefing the crew on staying alert if it takes place.
Lance55
Posts: 126
Date Joined: 26/08/16
Broaching
mate, this can happen to anyone in any boat. Good advice from the crew, no matter what boat you are in, you need to learn it's good and bad habits and drive to the conditions, just like on the road.
As for the father in law......if it's even conditions are a little bit Suss, I never let anyone else skipper, learnt my lesson one day out of Dampier when a mate punched the throttle in a swell on full lock!!!
Cruise Control
Posts: 973
Date Joined: 03/11/10
The older Westerbergs could
The older Westerbergs could be scary when driven wrong and in my opinion they were prone to broaching without warning, particularly when in a confused sea and engine trimmed down.
As everyone else has said, slow down and trim up. If you are in a 5m runabout, there is going to be a fair bit of weight forward. If you are going flat out and trimmed in, this is only going to push the nose down which is asking for trouble.
Paul H
Posts: 2104
Date Joined: 18/01/07
If the boat is prone to
If the boat is prone to broaching make sure the motor is trimmed out to lift the bow, travel on an slight angle to the following sea (not the exact same direction as the waves even if you have to tack back and forth) and slow down (don't let the Father in law drive in following seas if he won't listen).
May pay to check weight distribution as suggested moving it rearward where possible.
Youtube Channel - FishOnLine Productions
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbUVNa-ViyGm_FTDSv4Nqzg/videos
Banjo100
Posts: 34
Date Joined: 22/03/15
Massive thanks to everyone
Massive thanks to everyone thats helped ,will be the only one driving the boat from now on ,and if there is a following sea will trim the motor to suit ,always been a big fan of the tortuise and the hair ,so will get there in the end , and in one piece.
G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No
Swompa
Posts: 3871
Date Joined: 14/10/12
Mate, what sort of speed
Mate, what sort of speed would you have been doing when running?
Banjo100
Posts: 34
Date Joined: 22/03/15
Gday ,my old father-in law
Gday ,my old father-in law was going flat stick ,so if he ever comes out again he,s now the deckie for the sake of saftey cheers
G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No
timboon
Posts: 2954
Date Joined: 14/11/10
There are very few times i'm
There are very few times i'm on someone elses boat and i actually feel comfortable with the trim of the boat!!
The biggest dead give away is the trim from take off!!
Keep the bow down until she starts to plane!!
If the Skip doesnt even get that he is definately not going to understand how the boat rides/performs when tricky situations arise.
I get sarcastic on here becuase you get sick of people asking dumb questions that relate to safety instead of gaining self experience like old mate that asked the listing to one side question! Get you're ass out there and gain the experience. Use logic!!
Get on the flattish water if you have to (river maybe) and gain experience.
I know i will get the haters on here for speaking my mind but thats a forum.
Banjo100, My rant isn't aimed at you but you're issue sounds like a trim problem and thats purely experience and understanding how you're boat performs.
Keep clocking the hours up and observe, if you're really not confident in you're own boat go out with a fella that knows what he's doing and learn from him.
You've got to learn to drive to the conditions, Boats are just like cars. You dont drive in a straight line then all of a sudden the cars turns and nearly rolls. Its the same in the ocean. You have to be able to see whats coming and adjust.
Banjo100
Posts: 34
Date Joined: 22/03/15
Gday ,thanks for your reply
Gday ,thanks for your reply ,no offence taken as its always good to get as much advice and help as possible , have been driving the boat for about a year and a half and have never had that happen to me ,so the only thing that was diffrent was the skipper ,so every time from now on thers only going to be one skipper ,and thats Banjo ,cheers for your help
G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No
epic restos and...
Posts: 226
Date Joined: 22/06/15
question you dont have to
question you dont have to answer if you want? do you have water in your hull when you get back to the ramp? do you carry alot of anchor chain? where is the fuel tank and how much fuel was in it, often overlooked when extending a hull. there are many reasons a boat broaches, design, weight,displacement, driver error and so on but one thing is true it is a very scarey event,, if you are in the mandurah area one day feel free to drop in and have a chat best of luck Todd
Banjo100
Posts: 34
Date Joined: 22/03/15
Gday Todd, theres never too
Gday Todd, theres never too much water in the hull, don,t have too much anchor chain ,when i bought the boat the fuel tank was on the starboard side in the corner ,since then i have filled in the stern where the slop was somtimes coming over the back ,and moved the 60lt fuel tank in to thre middle ,i,ve got the old fella,s number who i bought the boat off ,first time i went out managed to get a couple of duhies ,so idropped of a nice fillet to him ,so i,ll give him a call and ask him if he ever had that problem thanks heaps for your offer but i,m up here in Gero
G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No