Boat that just about breached ,need help

 Gday ,was out and about a couple of days ago in my Westernberg ali plate 5mt  runaround  with my father in law driving when a pretty sketchy thing  happend ,not onec ebut twice,as we were going along with the  swell the boat got picked up and dug itself in ,with a fair bit of water coming over the starboard side ,that was  a heart starter ,opend up the scuppers and all was good  ,after a few hours fishing with not much luck was time to head home when we were close to the mariner the backwaqsh off the sea wall made for a bit of a washing machine, and lightning never stikes twice but the same thing happend again but a bit more  of the boat went under  ,esky,s fishing rods and any thing else went flying to the starboard side dead set thought we were going tio flip ,what i was wondering was  ,i bought it second hand and the old fella i got it off added about a meter to the back  ,but on the hull where it,s been added to there is no keel ,it stops where the original   hull was ,was just wondering if anyone has any suggestions on what to do ,got a couple of kids that love fishing ,but won,t be taken them out till iget this problem solved ,someone said to extend the kell all the way  back ,any help would be grear cheers  Banjo

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 G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No 


striker's picture

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Date Joined: 26/09/14

No expert and Haven't experinced

Wed, 2016-08-31 16:44

that sort of moment myself but you could look at trim tabs or a hydrofoil stabilizer for the engine, sounds like in a cross swell it wants to corkscrew.

sea-kem's picture

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Date Joined: 30/11/09

 Have a talk to Epic marine

Wed, 2016-08-31 16:48

 Have a talk to Epic marine site sponsor. He'll have the right advice for you. 

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North Coast Marine's picture

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Date Joined: 23/05/16

 Keel won't make too much

Wed, 2016-08-31 16:50

 Keel won't make too much difference, it's more of a structural thing than handling on that size boat, I would avoid hydrofoils as I have seen them dig in in similar situations you are talking about, I would adjust your driving style maybe, trim engine up to lift the nose and when you feel it start to dig sometimes putting a bit of power on to lift the nose is better than backing off hope that helps 

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Paul H's picture

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Date Joined: 18/01/07

 Don't know a hyrofoil would

Wed, 2016-08-31 16:50

 

Don't know a hyrofoil would be the answer may even make things worse.

 

Need more detail as to exactly what occured -

did the nose bury into the back of a swell ahead or was it coming down the swell?

What was motor trim at the time?

Speed (including relative to waves)?

add on pics?

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broach

Wed, 2016-08-31 16:51

westerbergs generally have a fairly flat hull particularly if they are an older model. This makes them a fairly stable boat particularly with a following sea. Deeper V hulls tend to be a bit more prone to broaching

first thing to do would be check your trim, nose up when coming home with a following or sideways sea

Posts: 218

Date Joined: 15/01/10

Stabilisers

Wed, 2016-08-31 16:51

Sounds like its broaching in a following sea?

You may need stabilisers
wwww.boatcollar.com.au
or
even a hydrofoil on the leg of motor may fix it.

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chris raff's picture

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 Should get a pic up for a

Wed, 2016-08-31 16:56

 Should get a pic up for a bit of scrutiny on the hull .. what was the swell / conditions like on the day was this it’s maiden voyage with you at the helm   

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Date Joined: 22/03/15

 the  swell wasn,t big ,just

Wed, 2016-08-31 20:33

 the  swell wasn,t big ,just the wash off the sea wall,my father in law  the skipper ,he,s got two speeds stop and flat chat ,i told him the first time to sit on 3300 rvs ,but to no avail , have had the boat for a year or so and this is the first time it,s happend maybe my skipper was going too fast  ,but would still like to sort out this cheers

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 G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No 

Bodie's picture

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Date Joined: 05/11/07

 North coast is spot on, a

Wed, 2016-08-31 18:34

 North coast is spot on, a lot of Ali boats broach when surfing swell. Suggest when a bigger swell comes in or you feel like your starting to surf, back off on the power a little bit will solve the problem mostly.

 

Its probably more noticeable when your going over 3 mile or shallow reef where the swell stands up and has a steeper front face.

carnarvonite's picture

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Date Joined: 24/07/07

Hydrofoil

Wed, 2016-08-31 18:52

If its fitted with a hydrofoil then remove it asap, they give the stern lift and in a following sea it can be deadly.

As others have stated, trim the nose up and back off on the throttle, better to slip back up the face of a wave instead of ploughing ahead into the back of the one on front.

Swompa's picture

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 Tilt up motor to lift the

Wed, 2016-08-31 19:05

 Tilt up motor to lift the bow right up should help. My boat likes digging a trench when in a seaway but never wanted to broach. Tilting up makes the ride a bit more pleasant.

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Date Joined: 17/06/10

To get real good advice on the problem

Wed, 2016-08-31 19:20

I think the best thing to do is to take a couple of good photos of your boat (from the stern and bow) and go to one or a couple of boat builders who support this site and gain there professional opinion on what is causing you to have so much excitement.

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Date Joined: 22/03/15

 thanks heaps to everyone

Wed, 2016-08-31 20:29

 thanks heaps to everyone ,will take a couple of pics and post them, 

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 G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No 

Posts: 41

Date Joined: 25/03/10

 Try shifting weight from

Wed, 2016-08-31 21:59

 Try shifting weight from front to back also can make a big difference in a following sea.

Feral's picture

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 having owned a few old

Thu, 2016-09-01 07:33

 having owned a few old westerberg of that size I'd suggest you are going way to fast and motor trimmed right down.  And that's a horrible idea in following sea in any boat.  

I'm presuming you have a skippers ticket yourself?  If not I suggest you get it and you drive the boat yourself don't let idiots drive ( father in law or not) as it will wreck your motor,  the gear you just flooded and maybe cost you your life. 

Learn from mistakes but stand your ground.  If it's his boat etc. Then just don't go out in it 

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Date Joined: 22/03/15

 Thanks,have had skippers

Thu, 2016-09-01 08:53

 Thanks,have had skippers ticket for a few years,been out in the boat heaps and never had this happen ,like you said I think  my in law was not driving it in a sensible way , too fast  ,so  next time  he'll be the decline like it or not ,will also trim the motor back a bit if there's a following sea ,thanks heaps 

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 G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No 

hezzy's picture

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Date Joined: 27/11/09

feral totally agree banjo

Thu, 2016-09-01 08:18

feral totally agree

banjo id take that advice and follow it up asap

id also be checking how front heavy the boat was loaded ?? how much gear was in the nose ?? how far forward are the seats positioned ,?? with a bit of gear and 2 solid boys in the seats /front of the boat @ 5 metres that and the motor trimmed down even a little will get you in the wrong place quick enough in a following sea at speed

hezzy

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OFW 11

evil flourishes when good men do nothing

 

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Date Joined: 22/03/15

 Thanks,after the other days

Thu, 2016-09-01 11:23

 Thanks,after the other days experience it can go pear shape in the blink of an eye,big fan of slow and steady cheers for the help

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 G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No 

Posts: 1522

Date Joined: 09/03/13

As most have said.... driver

Thu, 2016-09-01 09:01

As most have said.... driver take care.

Very hard to work out without much more info.
but. if the boat had a meter add to it, it may pay to have a look at where fuel tanks are (underfloor and too far forward ?/ fuel sloshing with no baffle)batteries etc are and general weight distribution is.

and FWIW :Hydrofoil ....not a fan at all.

Jackfrost80's picture

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First thing I did was take

Thu, 2016-09-01 09:34

First thing I did was take off my hydrofoil after we got caught in the steep wake of a huge boat at Matilda Bay and got thrown to the side. Got much better control in following seas without it and no noticeable difference in getting up out of the hole.

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Officially off the Pies bandwagon

Chinbald's picture

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Deep V long Aluminium

Thu, 2016-09-01 10:05

Mate has an older deep v aluminium 6m based on the Kolyn/ Star looking hulls. It can take off left or right and breach even in mild chop in the Mandurah estuary, its ok if you pick it coming, but can be dangerous if someone or something weighty goes arse over resulting in all weight on one side. Don't have an answer other than being aware and briefing the crew on staying alert if it takes place.

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Date Joined: 26/08/16

Broaching

Thu, 2016-09-01 10:51

 mate, this can happen to anyone in any boat. Good advice from the crew, no matter what boat you are in, you need to learn it's good and bad habits and drive to the conditions, just like on the road.

As for the father in law......if it's even conditions are a little bit Suss, I never let anyone else skipper, learnt my lesson one day out of Dampier when a mate punched the throttle in a swell on full lock!!!

 

 

Cruise Control's picture

Posts: 973

Date Joined: 03/11/10

The older Westerbergs could

Thu, 2016-09-01 11:04

The older Westerbergs could be scary when driven wrong and in my opinion they were prone to broaching without warning, particularly when in a confused sea and engine trimmed down.

As everyone else has said, slow down and trim up. If you are in a 5m runabout, there is going to be a fair bit of weight forward. If you are going flat out and trimmed in, this is only going to push the nose down which is asking for trouble.

 

Paul H's picture

Posts: 2104

Date Joined: 18/01/07

If the boat is prone to

Thu, 2016-09-01 12:52

If the boat is prone to broaching make sure the motor is trimmed out to lift the bow, travel on an slight angle to the following sea (not the exact same direction as the waves even if you have to tack back and forth) and slow down (don't let the Father in law drive in following seas if he won't listen).

May pay to check weight distribution as suggested moving it rearward where possible.  

 

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 Massive thanks to everyone

Thu, 2016-09-01 16:21

 Massive thanks to everyone thats helped ,will be the only one driving the boat  from now on ,and if there is a following sea will trim the motor to suit ,always been a big fan of the tortuise and the hair ,so will get there in the end  , and  in one piece.

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 G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No 

Swompa's picture

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 Mate, what sort of speed

Thu, 2016-09-01 19:38

 Mate, what sort of speed would you have been doing when running?

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 Gday ,my old father-in law

Tue, 2016-09-13 18:22

 Gday ,my old father-in law was going flat stick ,so  if he ever comes out again he,s now the deckie for the sake of saftey cheers

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 G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No 

timboon's picture

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Date Joined: 14/11/10

 There are very few times i'm

Fri, 2016-09-02 05:50

 There are very few times i'm on someone elses boat and i actually feel comfortable with the trim of the boat!!

 

The biggest dead give away is the trim from take off!!

 

Keep the bow down until she starts to plane!!

 

If the Skip doesnt even get that he is definately not going to understand how the boat rides/performs when tricky situations arise.

 

I get sarcastic on here becuase you get sick of people asking dumb questions that relate to safety instead of gaining self experience like old mate that asked the listing to one side question! Get you're ass out there and gain the experience. Use logic!!

 

Get on the flattish water if you have to (river maybe) and gain experience.

 

I know i will get the haters on here for speaking my mind but thats a forum.

 

Banjo100, My rant isn't aimed at you but you're issue sounds like a trim problem and thats purely experience and understanding how you're boat performs.

 

Keep clocking the hours up and observe, if you're really not confident in you're own boat go out with a fella that knows what he's doing and learn from him.

 

You've got to learn to drive to the conditions, Boats are just like cars. You dont drive in a straight line then all of a sudden the cars turns and nearly rolls. Its the same in the ocean. You have to be able to see whats coming and adjust. 

 

 

 

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Date Joined: 22/03/15

 Gday ,thanks for your reply

Tue, 2016-09-13 18:25

 Gday ,thanks for your reply ,no offence taken as its always good to get as much  advice and help as possible , have been driving the boat for about a year and a half and have never had that happen to me ,so the only thing that was diffrent was the skipper ,so  every time from now on  thers only going to be  one skipper ,and thats Banjo ,cheers for your help

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 G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No 

epic restos and marine's picture

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 question you dont have to

Fri, 2016-09-02 09:39

 question you dont have to answer if you want? do you have water in your hull when you get back to the ramp? do you carry alot of anchor chain? where is the fuel tank and how much fuel was in it,  often overlooked when extending a hull. there are many reasons a boat broaches, design, weight,displacement, driver error and so on but one thing is true it is a very scarey event,, if you are in the mandurah area one day feel free to drop in and have a chat best of luck Todd

 

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Date Joined: 22/03/15

 Gday Todd, theres never too

Tue, 2016-09-13 18:32

 Gday Todd, theres never too much water in the hull, don,t have too much anchor chain ,when i bought the boat the fuel tank was on the starboard side in the corner ,since then i have filled in the stern where  the slop was somtimes coming over the back ,and moved the 60lt fuel tank in to thre middle ,i,ve got the old fella,s number  who i bought the boat off ,first time  i went out managed to get a couple of duhies ,so idropped of a nice fillet to him ,so i,ll give him a call and ask him if he ever had that problem thanks heaps for your offer but i,m up here in Gero

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 G'day,heading up to Perron point in Shark bay with my kids ,have got a 12ft timid we are taking ,was wondering which camp would be best for us , kids love catching squid and fishing in general ,will be going mid September any advice would be great cheers ,both kids are teenagers. No