Boat Trailer info
Hi All,
Am Chasing a little info form any trailer experts who might be on here!
I recently broke the rear axle on the boat trailer that tow's my 3+tonne fury around, going round a round about.
I went down to Martins trailer parts to get some pricing on replacing the axles. I knew the axles were under rated for the weight so i asked the guys at Martins trailer parts to quote up bigger axles and any additional parts required.
Now Martins recommended replacing the current axles with 2.25T axles (Total 4.5 Tonne). This requires new hubs(2.25T Each), discs, Rims, Tyres, bearings and possibly brake Callipers. This is where I am unsure on the actual rating requirements to support the weight of boat and trailer.
Currently i have 2 x 1T axles, 1T Hubs. (the 1T axles is actually the Stub rating, the axle itself is 2T.) I've had these in for 5 years.
The question i have with Dual or tri axle trailers, is what should the actual load rating be per Axle / Hub? Does each axle need to be rated to the weight of boat and trailer? Same with each hub? or does the gross rating across all the runn ing gear need to be equivelent or above the actual boat and trailer weight?
There is an option to use smaller Axles 1.5T axles, which would then allow me to use the current Rim's and Tyres rather than shelling out another 1,200 - 1,500 for new ones. Still 1.5T axles will only just cover the gross weight of the boat and trailer.
Any advice would be appreciated. I've no problems doing the work myself. The only Concern i had from Martins trailer parts was that they wouldnt order the Calliper bracket for the new axles, and wanted me to cut off the old ones so they could weld them on. Doesnt make a lot of sense welding on a rusted bracket to me.
Cheers
Bodie
pelagicyachts
Posts: 1322
Date Joined: 23/02/11
Mate after the aftermath that
Mate
after the aftermath that resulted from snapping an axle on a brand new trailer (3 ton boat - 3.5ton rated trailer) on the gnaraloo track i would suggest going as heavy as you can - esp if you can do the work yourself
just my 2 cents worth :-)
Bodie
Posts: 3758
Date Joined: 05/11/07
Cheers mate. I was lucky the
Cheers mate. I was lucky the axle broke 100m from my house so i could get her home.
Even with dual axles i still dont really have the ability of travel on one if the other breaks. Springs allow the hub to sit 1 inch off the ground without a tyre on it.
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Bloody hell Bodie
Looking at your fantastc rig man I would go way over. I only have a 5.4 Trailcraft Alli that I love and rough up. However when we blew a tyre between Kcity and Exxy, and then had another tyre sheer the bolts off leaving me stranded at the bottom of Dampier Hill heading for a fish I immediately upgraded to a 1.5T twin axle. Overkill yes, but I know that it will tolerate blowing a tyre (or 2 if on the same axle) and I would still get home.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
Rob H
Posts: 5801
Date Joined: 18/01/12
the rules are that if you
the rules are that if you have load sharing type (roller rocker etc) the aggregate sum is the total rating.
If you have non load share such as many slipper types, or torsion it must be 120% of the total rating, roughly 4 tonnes to get a 3 tonne rating, and that goes for tyres and all.
But each axle can only be the max of weakest part.
For example if you have 2 tonne axles and springs but brakes only to 1.5 then your axles is only 1.5 tonne no matter what size (legally), same goes for hubs, tyres, brakes springs and axles.
Also to get over 2 tonne rating you must have an electric over hydraulic breakaway system on all axles. I believe you can legally have electric caravan type drum brakes but they will rapidly fail in salt water so would be foolish to waste money on them.
I did a thread a while back on doing up my trailer, it may have some info of interest for you as I did mine to 3.4 tonnes.
I have seen quite clearly in Perth that many of these rules are either misinterpreted (or more likely bent) by manufacturer/importers under the small scale manufacturer rules, and also that your inspection centers in Perth seem more lax than ours here in the country-lucky you guys!
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Bodie
Posts: 3758
Date Joined: 05/11/07
I have roller rocker load
I have roller rocker load sharing on the trailer.
Problem being for me is that i could get 1.5 Tonne axles that will fit a certain hub which will fit the rims i have, however 2t axles need different hubs needing new rims and tyres just adding more and more cost.
From my understanding i could actually fit a 3rd axle which does not need braking (From what i can understand). I dont know if this is a financially viable option or not.
To be honest I'm considering either a complete "Running gear" rebuild or a new trailer. Running gear rebuild will be 4-5k on its own.
Bodie
Posts: 3758
Date Joined: 05/11/07
And in addition, if i beef up
And in addition, if i beef up the trailer to new 2Tonne axles, the axles are 60mm longer, and with bigger tyres would mean the tyres would be sitting outside the guards, which means more work! So trying to work out what is practical and what is needed.
Rob H
Posts: 5801
Date Joined: 18/01/12
How come? Martins make the
How come? Martins make the axles to suit what you want?
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Bodie
Posts: 3758
Date Joined: 05/11/07
I am unsure why Martins say
I am unsure why Martins say the axles are slightly longer, i can only assume as the stub needs to be longer for the larger hubs. The axle itself needs to be a certain length for the Calliper mounts and the spring plates.
Rob H
Posts: 5801
Date Joined: 18/01/12
over 2 tonne total needs
over 2 tonne total needs brakes on every axle, full stop.
I did a full replacement on mine but scored a set of used SS Kodiak disc overs and calipers and Dexter EOH unit.
If yours has ford parttern you can get to about 3 tonne, not because of the wheels but nobody seems to make over 1500kg with this pattern locally.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Bodie
Posts: 3758
Date Joined: 05/11/07
Over 1,500kg? are you talking
Over 1,500kg? are you talking per rim, or per hub?
Rob H
Posts: 5801
Date Joined: 18/01/12
no, per axle. The yanks (and
no, per axle. The yanks (and Transtyle locally) on their torsion type use 3500lb/14" rating for this stud pattern.
Dual is 7000lb (3180kg from memory) but when you apply the ADR 120% rule it comes back to 2700kg. The yanks next size up is the 5200lb but only uses 12" discs which will only take a 15" 6 stud (Landcruiser)
Martins HB100a hub comes in Ford 5 stud but is 1500kg per pair.
Their HB200 hub is 2000kg (or 2250?) but is only available in Landcruiser and other patterns.
Check it out, I may have missed something as I already had the SS Kodiak slipover discs, its possible the Alko 2Tonne ones may take 5 stud 14".
Personally if I was doing it again Id get a pair of either Transtyle or Trojan torsions complete with discs etc (around $3K) made to order and just clamp them to your chassis.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
scottnofish
Posts: 1621
Date Joined: 28/08/07
going trough the whole process now
with my trailer just upgraded the suspension to 3.5 tonne springs and the axle and hubs will be next the only way to get the 3.5 t rating is with the hb200 hubs
Rob H
Posts: 5801
Date Joined: 18/01/12
which from memory will be 6
which from memory will be 6 stud Landcruiser and 15" rims min??
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
scottnofish
Posts: 1621
Date Joined: 28/08/07
almost you can get
the alko rims rated to 1 tonne each in 14 inch
Rob H
Posts: 5801
Date Joined: 18/01/12
for sure but if I remember
for sure but if I remember right the hb200 hubs only come in 6 stud cruiser and (I think) the discs will only fit a 15"?
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
big blue
Posts: 57
Date Joined: 25/03/10
If your gunna rebuild the
If your gunna rebuild the suspension/axles convert to alko independent.
http://www.alko.com.au/uploads/2008/12/ALKO-IRS-Axle-ad-3.pdf
Rob H
Posts: 5801
Date Joined: 18/01/12
the Alko ones are
the Alko ones are extorsionally expensive, double the price of Trojan or Transtyle and from memory dont come in the drop centre (gull wing) style that many boat trailers need.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
just dhu it
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 14/05/09
New set up
Hi Bodie I have been brought the same issue on my last 2 rigs where the boat and trailer empty struggles to meet the capacity of the rated trailer supplied for the dealer , have an accident and. You will have even more issues with your insurance trying to get paid out for repairs , IMO. Go the over rated axles and springs , Martin should be able to have them made up to suit your trailer might take an extra two weeks , other wise find another company that will , the brakes etc needed for the new rating are to meet the regulations that are current , the past 5 years you have done well to get away with what was supplied but with a rig as $$$$ as yours it's time to meet the new regulations when required with a few hassles to go with it I would also go back to the fury dealers and see what setup the trailers they are selling with the similar size/weight rigs now. A lot of people forget that it is the trailer that gets your pride and joy to the ramp each
Rob H
Posts: 5801
Date Joined: 18/01/12
good advice. Remember also
good advice. Remember also that beside the trailer being under rated, even if it has the correct rating but fails mechanically or from corrosion etc its unlikely to be covered unless caused by an accident
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Bodie
Posts: 3758
Date Joined: 05/11/07
Rob mate, thanks for all the
Rob mate, thanks for all the advice, am now looking at the Transyle Torsion kits form Melbourne. Anyone using something like these at present? Martins tailer parts sell the alko Rubber suspension kits, however not rated to 2.5tonne per axle.
Only issue I can see is the axle bolts directly to the chassis, as to previous the axle used to bolt to the springs, and springs being attached to the hangers which effectively raised the height of the boat. Im concerned that the torsions will lower the heigh of the boat (because they are not atached to the hangers so probably 50-60mm difference), effecting the towing because of the difference of weight on the tow ball? Could a piece of RHS be used as a spacer between the axle bracket and the chassis?
Cheers
Bodie
big blue
Posts: 57
Date Joined: 25/03/10
Got a 2300 Noosacat on
Got a 2300 Noosacat on Noosacat trailer has alko indipendant axles ... The ducks nuts I reckon had two trailers with this set up & after the previous three traiers with the conventional leaf set up .... Never again !!
only real issue is fitted with 13" wheel/tyres, pain in the proverbial, will upsize later to 14" , & will only require minor engineering to add RHS between chassis rail & suspension/axle assys, biggest expense will be 8 new rims & tyres
got nearly four years up on this trailer & suspension is as good as new, S/S brake calipers & sensabrake, had one caliper break in half, was inclusion in casting, Alko replaced with new pair, posted no charge to coral bay last year while on holiday.
axles are rated to 2.5. Tonne according to website
Also these Dura hubs are the go haven't had to replace a wheel bearing in five years on any trailer I've had these fitted to ... No mess either & you don't keep loosing the grease nipple on the left
had a look @ the transtyle ...same-same as alko as far as I can see , are they ally?
Alko also come in half sets .... Left & right so the axle dosn't need to go completely across the trailer
http://www.durahub.com/durahub-bearing-protector/
Rob H
Posts: 5801
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Bodie- either Transtyle or
Bodie- either Transtyle or Trojan (maybe both?) you can order with the starting angle of the torsions in a wide range to set the height you want.
Some of the yank ones are on a spline so you can set them yourself.
Big advantages of the torsions are weight and the fact that the axle actually contributes to the frame strength where the leafs are heavier and contribute nothing other than reliability and fixability on the side of the road.
Talk to Trojan as well, they do a good range also, both have a 4-8 week lead time as they are made to order.
Good luck!
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Bodie
Posts: 3758
Date Joined: 05/11/07
Hi Rob, spoke with both,
Hi Rob, spoke with both, Trojan don't stock the big 2.5 tone axles and need to have them made in NZ and shipped over. 6-8 weeks!
did not get a lot of help when I rang them, bloke on the phone kept trying to fob me off to a local wholesaler rep.
Torsions are made to order in Melbourne and can have them in 2 weeks time. When you said can order torsions with any starting angle assume your talking about the bhub arm angle itself? (Torsion)
big blue, transtyle torsions are completely galvanized with stainless calipers
Rob H
Posts: 5801
Date Joined: 18/01/12
haha, thats funny, around
haha, thats funny, around xmas I spoke to Trojan and they said the same, 6-8 weeks but that they were in the process of moving manufacture to Melbourne!
Yeah thats right, torsion arm angle. But Ive just looked at the Transtyle and while they dont have an option they do have a deeper mounting bracket.
I calculated the height difference between Transtyle and roller rocker (which I ended up with) and suprisingly the difference was only in the order of about 40mm from memory
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.