I'd be banging on the skipper's door for him to pay costs. It's pretty average of him not to make sure his license was in order, pretty basic stuff really.

Ring Fisheries and ask them to show you the legislation that states you are legally obliged to pay this fine.

If they cant dont pay.If they can im afraid you are stuck.

Dont fight it, just make sure the unlicenced mate coughs up the money for the fine... b4 the due date!!, theres no demerits or anything like that, and learn from the experience!!

As they say 'ignorance is no excuse' it sucks but thats reality

Troy

 I agree with seakem. If he stuffed up he pays the price. A bit unfair for you doing the right thing

I'd be writing a letter, or getting a lawyer to write a letter asking that they explain the rationale of the charge and why you?  Have they infringed the other (third) guy as well?  I would have thought that the skipper is ultimately the responsible person, and should wear the charge.  I think you have good grounds to defend it, or at least mitigating circumstances as to penalty.  ultimately, you are fishing from a boat with the correct licence, and had only taken fish according to your licence, if i read the facts correctly?  so why should an excess of fish be your personal problem?  also, if they have never come across this scenario, then perhaps some resistence will make them think about all the legal aspects and how it may pan out in court.

 So then by the fisheries rules if someone goes out fishing solo (they are the skipper) and doesn't have a license then they can't be fined due to their "admin reasons". Definently something fishy there and I would be questioning why they have asked you to pay!

how can you be charged for doing nothing wrong 

 If I was in your situation, I would definitely expect my mate to pay the fine.  If he doesn't then you would have to wonder want sort of mate he is!

If I went on a fishing trip, that would be one the first things that would be ticked off on the list: fishing from boat license and is it current? 

And if like you said his missus renewed it, then he should have recieved a new card.

I have a problem with your mate paying your fine.

a)  it is YOUR criminal record not his;

b)  by him just simply paying the fine, you are in effect admiting the charge;

c)  that will remain on YOUR record;

d)  Fisheries need to prove the charge.  By paying the fine, you are making their job a whole lot easier than it should be.

Definate can of worms this one. By what Randall has said I'd be going to court with a good lawer and fighting the charge. You would think common sense would have to prevail with a good judge on the case. Feel sorry for you mate.

 I have not practiced in any type of prosecutions for a while but the whole "can't charge the skipper because he's not licensed" sounds wrong in principle.  You can write to them if you want but I doubt they are obliged to reply.  What I am quite sure of is that if they are not engaged with in the right way they will just toddle along with the process and you will end up in court.  If you get your mate to pay up then that's ok but you might then have a first offense against you and then really walloped the next time if you manage to get caught again.  

How much will the fine be?  The second question is the type of record you might end up with.  There can be unexpected consequences of having any sort of record.

I'd get legal advice first.  If you want me to refer you to a lawyer who can do this, send me a pm.

Cam

how much is your legal advice going to cost you? Is it really worth the hundreds or thousands you will end up paying out. It may be worth your 'friend' approaching fiaheries stating he was in the wrong and get the charge/fine put over to him - a bit like the speed camera scenario when your not the driver.

At the end of the day someone from that boat is in the wrong, fisheries will want someone to pay up and they should be forced to.

Its down to your mate to pay up and accept responsibility for his actions  and he should be approaching fishieries and accepting liability for his actions.

To use the excuse that he thought his better half sorted out his licence is bulls#$@ , do not fall for that one. We are all aware that the licence department contact you when your licence is up for renewal.

You say that there was some addminisration problem for your mate not getting pinged if thats the case fight it all the way, you are not to blame. .

 We all know the rules and regulations associated with boating, we might not agree with them all but as adults we accept them when we sign up, this includes your mate.

Stand your corner and fight this one. Let just see how much of a mate he turns out to be. Keep us posted. 

Hey when I go fish in with mates I ask them all do you have licenes including me so end of story

It actually defies belief. Cams right.. get legal advice-

Everyone should know the limits but it isn't right to single the guy out with the licence-skipper should pay for sure 

As the others have said , i would be going back to the fisheries and reminding them that you had all of the current licences and fish Qtys etc , i would be concrened that if you pay the fine your name will be kept on record and should there ever be another charge it would be classed as your second offence and may be a larger concerned for down the road

thats bulltish you have done nothing wrong you were licenced and weren't liable as the skipper...I'd respond keeping it simple , saying you were not paying the fine and will contest it should they wish to pursue the matter send it back via registered mail asap...let them work it out , I wouldn't be paying them jack ...PS if it does goes to court hire a expensive barrister let him tear them to pieces and you'll also be remunerated in full ...

I'am no legal practioner or legally quallified in any way but.

fact one the acknowledged skipper of the boat did not have the appropriate licence.

Fact two the skipper exceeded the allowable catch limit by 5 fish

Fact three you had the appropriate licence and caught the allowable limit of fish.

Fact four you can produce a witness (the skipper) who can verify the above

Fact five the DoF officer stated at the time "that this was a tricky one" or words to that effect indicating that he/she was not even sure that an offence had in fact be committed and who had c ommitted it.

If the above are correct you should ask DoF (it should be on your summons actualy) under what regulation are you being charged and you wish to have a copy provided to you. Now as I understand they are not required to provide you with a copy.

When you have a copy of DoF regulations ordanances etc you should see a soliciter/llawyer taking all the relevent documents with you and ask for his/her advice.

If you don't like their advice see another lawyer remember these people are human beings, that means that they don't always get it right

Hope this helps you make up your mind on what to do, my view see the lawyer first.

 Why not just split the fine three way.  Why waste everyones time on something so minor..... is it a principle thing?

You want your mate to pick up the fine yet you had the luxury to go fishing on his boat.  Not wanting to cast any dispersions.  So you have the legal number, the other bloke with the license says he has the legal number, so therefore who is right.  The skipper says he had no license so he did not catch any and his boat was used only as a vessel for those to catch fish.  So no body will take responsibility.

I just don't understand how people "think" they have a current license, aren't you supposed to carry it with you? if so would you not check before hand that you had it and its current.

These guys are doing their job, rightly or wrongly.

The way i see it, they have charged you for exceeding your license limit because he is deemed to be fishing under your license (whilst its his fault for not renewing it) you ultimately have to bear that reponsibility, even if it is unknown to you. If people onboard have a license then they are entitled to take fish while a non license holder cant. In the situation above, with 2 license holders you are allowed 2 bag limits, then it comes down to the situation with fisheries that unfolded from there and who said what etc.

Therefore, with 5 extra fish, some one has exceeded their licensed limit and been charged.

you would be a fool to accept it as is. Fisheries are not stupid either though they seem to go out of their way to appear that way sometimes.

As said above, get a lawyer. If your mate is reluctant to assist-well fk him. Fight it on your own then but I wouldnt accept it on my record. Straight up there is 10xthe commercial value which could become $300-500 A FISH!

Judges are not fools either and if a good lawyer makes them look silly enough chances are your costs could be covered.

Personally I just could not see it going to court?

There was a fisheries case in Geraldton court recently, cant recall it exactly. But in the newspaper it recounted how scathing the judge was of the Fisheries booklets and instructed Fisheries that it inadequate. They still got convicted though. 

Its probably a good reason to belong to Recfishwest though-if just for the lobbying access?

dalaisic-PM sent recounting my recent brush.

Where Mr Palmer was charged with fishing with a commercial rock lobster license in an area where commerical fisheries were prohibited, on the basis that he was given the wrong information from the fisheries department as a result of their pamphlets? It went to the Full Court of Appeal at the Supreme Court of Western Australia, where he won, and had the conviction set aside, although it did not last for long as it went to the High Court of Australia, and the appeal was upheld, therefore the conviction was reinstated....

I think that given the situation that you have mentioned dalaisc it would certainly be worth taking it further. On the basis that the fisheries have not come against a situation like this would indicate to me that they have tried their best to apply logic to the situation, although this has failed miserably. 

My suggestion is to seek legal advice, on the basis that given the licensing regulations have not been around for very long, precedent cases could very well not be in place. 

I think that it would probably come down to being able to prove that only 7 of the fish that you caught were yours, and that the others weren't. This could be easy or difficult depending on how good your 'mate' is. 

At the very least I would be having my lawyer write to fisheries, to see if the fine can be cancelled or at the very least reissued to your mates name. Depending on the outcomes of this you may be able to seek further redress through the judicial system.

Hope that helps.

BTW. I am not a lawyer...

I would argue it with them and tell them that you were within your bag limit and the posession of the fish was to the skipper.

I suspect fisheries have probably done it this way as perhaps the fine for over possesion is less then possession without a license??

Fisheries dont even know their own rules. We got pulled over in the islands and had 25kg worth of fillets confiscated as they had been skinned. Fisheries argued that we had processed at sea. 25kgs of fillets was left in the sun for 2 hourse whilst they "interviewed" us. We inquired further about the charge only to find in the rules that processing at sea is only a crime when you hit land, that whilst at sea you can fillet and skin without problems. Effectively by fisheries confiscating our fish and bringing them to land they "made" them legal.

They gave us a "stern warning" which was crap and couriered the fillets to us however there is a big grey cloud over the fillets as they spent so long in the sun.

I accept that the guys on the boat are just doing their job and it probably is a difficult one however one must question an organisation when the laws are so complicated even their officers dont understand them. Our police force dont get charging on a whim without understanding the rules so why are fisheries any different.

I would follow this up as the onus is not on the license holders to ensure that people without a license dont fish. Effectively owning a license does not give you the power to police the skipper.

I dont see why being a licenced fisher on a boat would make you responsible for the total catch on that boat (unless you were the skipper, then sure its your responsibility). Surely an unlicenced fisher can only fish under another persons licence with the permission of that other person? Since you werent aware your friend had no licence, I struggle to understand how he could be viewed as fishing under your licence Its not like a licences passenger in a car would be responsible for the unlicenced driver.

Maybe try sending a very formal letter explaining the situation and asking for an explenation. Hopefully common sense would prevail. If that fails then i would be looking for legal advice. After all this could go on your record and have who knows that kinda implications down the line.

what a rediculous situation.

 

like fisheries didnt even know what the rules are...... its the skippers responsibility for all on his his boat....... no licence = fine , missus tellin porkies " ive renewed your licence and not doing it = slap , licenced fishers on boat catch limit = go home enjoy the spoils , too many fish on the boat = skippers responsibility  and wear the fine accordingly..... end of story. he may not like it but it is ultimately his resposibility at the end of the day.. its not your issue that he dont have a licence , its his ( the skippers bad luck)...  its a common sense issue for fisheries too .... the only person without a licence should get the fine ( the skipper) !!!!

Vander you got it right. Charge the skipper without holding a current fishing license. He would have to take the rap for all the extra fish on board. He has admitted he caught them to fisheries. I'm surprised they didn't charge him with him conceding that. Looking forward to hearing how this plays out.

It could be interpreted that you have exceeded your bag limit or the skipper was fishing unlicensed.  There are way too many grey areas in this one and i doubt it would get to court.  Worth fighting it though.  if your mate ponies up the cash and pays for you you still receive the conviction and it is a blakc mark against your name.  If you get busted again (for whatever reason) they will throw the book at you.  You gotta fight it

Sounds like they are just trying to pin it on whoever they can in the hope you will just pay it, I'd defiantly look into challenging the fine, heaps of lawyer firms do a free consultation so can't hurt to get there opinion on where you stand, you will probably find you taking too many fish is a bigger penalty than your mate fishing without a licence

 My mate will pay fine. I just do not want a mark against my name. If I do phuck up in the future I will be labeled a repeat offender. I always ensure I have my license and comply with bag and size limits. If I am skipper then I make sure the boat complies with license limits. I will touch base with fisheries today and report back.

Not wanting to go political, but seems to be the hallmark of our current state govt,

look at the early hoon law stuff ups , and other rob johnson gems.

I got in a taxi the other day, the bloke was a new australian, real decent chap,

out their giving it a go, but was perplexed, at the fact that he was booked for a seatbelt infringement.

He took on a fare, heard some seatbelts click and away they went. 10 mins later , unknown

to him a couple of lads in the back seat, had taken the belts off, and a cop pulls him over, bingo instant fine.

Like he said , his car only has belt warning lights in the front seats, so how is he ( or any of us? )

to be 100% sure all of the time, in any car, that others are doing the right thing?

Your fisheries case seems to smell of the same rotten fish!

Like others have said , what excactly were you doing wrong , to cop the charge, and

why are we all so willing to pay for something out of our control , to satisfy a accounts section of

a govt department. Good luck , it wont be easy , but stick with it, for your own sense of whats right.

cheers.

Do not accept this. You do not not want the record against your name.

Clearly the fisheries act has a shortfall if they can not proceed against an unlicensed skipper. Given the skippers verbal acknowledgment at the time, that he had failed to meet his obligations and that the excess fish were his, it would seem fisheries should be drafting legislation to fix a shortfall in their act and not taking action against an innocent party.

I would suggest meeting with the Manager of the enforcement/prosecution area to discuss the issue and ask them to provide written advice of how the charge is construed under the fisheries act. I would also be suggesting that you intend to take the issue to the media via "Current Affair" or "Today Tonight"  to highlight the unfairness of a prosecution of an innocent person who had complied with all aspects of the fisheries regulations/act.

On another note, more delays at the ramp as the crew check each other licenses prior to launching the boat to avoid the possibility of being caught out later.

the whole thing about people fishing under your licence screws you over, im suprised they didn't book the two licenced fishers for it. Hate to say it but you've been nicked me laddy, an unfortunant situation but in the end this has nothing to do with the skipper, what if there was 4 of you on board and the skipper wasn't even fishing and the other apparent licence holder fishes but doesn't have a valid licence is it still the skippers fault? of course not... I'd be trying to get the charge switched but the law will show that you've exceeded the limit. If the law stated you MUst have a licence to fish from a boat regardless, none of this fish under someone elses you would have been OK he would have copped it for not having a valid licence.

.

Unlicensed fishers can fish in the company of a licensed
boat fisher provided they stay within the licensed fisher’s
bag limit. The Master of the vessel must ensure the take
of fish by all persons on that vessel must not exceed the
total bag and boat limit of fishers holding a recreational
(Boat) Fishing Licence
(see separate guide for further information).

From the license document as well, it doesn't look good on a legal front IMO.  This snippet says the skipper should be responsible for his fisherman to be above board, doesn't say anything when the skipper isn't (which could mean he is responsible)  But from reading what train has posted from the legislation, it seems pretty black and white.  I'd still get some 'free' advice, but weigh up the costs involved with the operation.  Just a shit situation really and I feel for you Dalaisc. :(

DO NOT PAY IT- or get your mate to do so
its a admission of YOUR guilt -

u did noting wrong   the infringement should go to skipper

court costs would be negligible if u lose - less than 100

i would write a letter to start with

fisheries gotta prove who caught the fish - u or someone else

ultimately the skipper

is responsible

 in all cases

"The Master of the vessel must ensure the take
of fish by all persons on that vessel must not exceed the
total bag and"

hopefully on the day u didnt admit guilt etc - they should ahve cautioned u o the day "anything u say will be taken as evidence- thats your sign to shit up

i would definately contest it

i got busted for a  cray 0.1mm undersize about 4 years ago by a brand new inspector who used a metal caliper to measure the crays - it was size on my gauge -shopbought- he squeesed the caliper till it was undersize

i am still sad i never took it to court cause i couldnt be bothered, i now found out it is a black mark for the next time

You might not need to bother with all the lawyer stuff if your mate writes a formal letter to DoF and states that the 5 fish were his and admits liability for fishing without a valid RFBL and that he witnessed you stayed in your bag limit and you were unaware his RFBL was out of date.  Ask him to do that before getting a lawyer involved.

 Really really rough mate, seriously feel for you.

As others have said I would be chatting to your mate to see if he will be doing the honourable thing. 

Otherwise seek legal advice before doing anything else and do not underestimate the value of a good barrister, makes a big difference.

I have two long time friends who are Fisheries officers - it is standard practice to send out infringements - as most people will pay the fines and not bother to contest at court.

After speaking with one of them - he basically said to go to court and let the Fisheries officers prove that you were over the limit - you just need to give your version of events and state the facts - the judge will then ask the officers to prove you are in the wrong.

You need to get your witness to also be with you - if he has not also been charged ?

You are not in the wrong - these fisheries officers are just chasing somebody to pay fines - and it's sad to see your the one they are after.

 Do a bit of research yourself before making a decision.

If you We're charged by infringement or summons it will have the act and section number under which you were charged. Get onto google and look up 'swans legal database'. It has all wa and commonwealth acts.

Find out what happens to the infringement if you were to pay it. With infringements they are not usually recorded on your criminal history because you haven't been convicted of the offence. The only

Way to be convicted is if you have endorsed a summons with a plea of guilty or you appear in court in person. If that is the case minimum court costs will be $130 for the issue of the summons, but there could be more if it was taken to trial.

So basically, check to see where and how the infringement will be recorded if you pay it.if you contest the ticket and take it to court and if you are convicted, it will definitely be recordedas

Criminal history.

For those of you wanting an example - if a bloke was issued with a cannabis infringement the only wait would appear on his crim history is if he took it to court. If he paid it, it wouldn't be part of his criminal convictions.

Clear as mud??

Thought I'd chime in, just so you're aware of the fees you might be up for if you seek legal representation.

A mate of mine caused a car accident and sought legal representation. No drugs or alcohol involved, fatigue probably contributed.

Barrister advised that he also needed another lawyer to assist with the case. A few short meetings before the hearing for briefing/advice and he was advised to plead guilty. All up didn't get alot of change from $10,000 as I recall. 

Get your mate/skipper to ring Fisheries, fess-up and cop it, this would probably be the least painful/expensive option.

How much was the fine and what was the charge? If you don't mind me asking.

 Explain it all to the fisheries, if you get no common sense from them then

http://www.ombudsman.wa.gov.au/

Just out of interest were the fisheries Officers involved new to the job or old hands? I have found the younger they are the more they want to score brownie points by racking up convictions. Have had them board my boat out at Turtle Bay,didnt ask just steamed up and said we are coming on board. Then proceeded to go through our catch (which was all legal) and were quite arrogant about the whole deal,left a sour taste in my mouth.I went and complained to their boss in Denham and was told they were new to the job and to please excuse their behavior.

p.s i would get the skipper to pay it but also get him to write a letter explaining what happened and take cash and letter to Fisheries personally.

 I am sorry but I think you may not have much chances in defending your case.

 Your argument was the skipper, your mate forgoten to renew his license and therefore you guys end up having 5 fishes over limit.

 In view of that, you may think the fisheries dept should, instead of finding you two who were licensed, ping on your mate the skipper.

 That is fairly logical thinking..... but!

 What about when you get to the court and the prosecutor claim the 3 of you may well know only 2 licences are valid but due to greed, you are trying to take  more than what was allowed.

 All the excuses your are giving right now is trying to run away from the law.

 The fisheries will be very careful in laying charges on your mate the skipper right now as, if they charge him base on what they put on you, he can easily argue  that he has no intention to take any fish, all he did was taking you 2 license fisho out for a day. All the catch belongs to you two.

 Now, what can you say if this happen?

 Can you substantiate that the cause of catching over the bag limit was due to the skipper forgeting to renew his license?

 No...! You can't, sadly he wasn't even fishing from the court point of view.

 My advise is becareful while handling this notice. ! 

 It will be god bless if you are able to get away from it.

haha i was almost in the same situation,

i went to Broome this week and my mates boat broke down so i hit up a Fishwrecked member who offered to take me out (top bloke by the way) ended up coming in with 2 full bag limits, we got stopped on arrival to the beach and he didnt have his license on him so the fisheries told me i would cop the fine! i cracked the shits obviously telling them i only just met the bloke and he offered to take me out on his boat, luckily enough after arguing for a while they made a few phone calls and found out he actually had his licence,

Shit Sytem in my opinion, there would be no way in hell i would pay for it!

unfortunately the license holder is the one who has to pay, we were caught in the same situation with me and my dad and although im a minor even if i wasnt he would be accountable being the main license holder regardless even if the license holder had caught nothing and the crew caught all the fish claiming they had license's and it was found that they didnt the sole license holder would be fined. i have a small knowledge on law and this law can easily be challenged in court as it is doesnt hold the characteristics of an effective law as it can be seen to be unclear to society and doesnt uphold the rule of law as it is slightly unjust considering you have tecnically not broken a law. it should be challenged in the court and we most likely would of on principle even our fine was minimal but in the end the only people who can take the case to court is the wealthy if you have money id take it to court cause this is an all to common happening to fishos

I really really recommend again that you get some legal advice.  There is a lot of well intentioned material in this thread but not much that is really relevant or helpful (and again, I seriously don't mean any disrespect to anyone who has posted).  To summarise,  these are your issues:

1. what will be the effect of paying a fine without going to court?  (Don't assume that you don't get a record - I don't know the answer to that one off the top of my head and I've been practising law for 16 years);
2. what will be the effect of going to court and losing? (a lawyer can advise you on that, and in particular, whether there are any unexpected consequences of a conviction e.g. possession of cannabis used to cost you a $150 fine, but it also used to cost you a passport number that meant you got well checked out by customs if you ever went to America - is there anything like that to be concerned about here? I have no idea but you need to know);
3. what's the fine likely to be? (unless the notice already tells you, a lawyer can work this out);
4. what might legal representation cost? (lawyers have to give cost estimates and you might be able to negotiate a fixed fee);
5. do you have a defence to this? (only a lawyer can give you a proper answer to this question that you can actually rely on and it sounds to me like it shouldn't be that difficult a question to answer);
6. If you run a successful defence, will you get legal costs awarded to you, and if you do, how much will they be? (You are unlikely to get a complete indemnity for your costs so to some degree you are likely to be out of pocket - that takes you back to point 1 & 2, which you need to balance the value of successfully defending a charge against the costs you will end up paying).

Anyway, that's my last bit on this, except that I'm still happy for you to call me anytime to discuss for the purposes of referring you to a lawyer who can help as per my PM.

Cam

damn after all that reading, i gather that if this weekend if we get busted for something, ill tell all the crew to say that no one has a bloody license so they cant ping anyone. it is friggin sad that the person that did all the right things has to be punished for someone who hasnt, in this day and age. well i guess its a pretty new set of rules(this fishing from a boat license) and they will have to iron out all the crap. so for the good of all us fishos, please put in alittle effort and argue the case. may set a precedent for later events.

all the best

happy fishing

you have done nothing wrong - shut up pay fine get black mark

you have done nothing wrong - go to court win case not all costs covered you still have to pay up

you have done nothing wrong - go to court loose case you pay big bucks and get black mark on record.

gee it makes me feel good that I fought a war so that the good people of a foreign country could have democracy and laws like us free folk.

Thank the be geeezuz we lost the war and the people of a foreign land don't have to suffer like us

So i guess in all of this, what would happen if there was no one with a licence on the boat? Who would they fine? Seems to me if they have to fine someone with a licence they couldnt fine anyone onboard if everyone didnt have a licence.

Now this i have to keep an eye on this thread because it will definitly have to be a loophole Fisheries will have to fix/clarify, or else i am not renewing my licence next year and making sure only people that dont have licences come out with me :P

I am sure by now the few Fisheries Department members that frequent this forum have already started to pass this info onto their superiors probably like all of us going WTF????

 Had a chat with charging officer and his superior yesterday. I got the impression that they are applying a bit of legislation that they feel is flawed.  When I asked then if they thought it was right the response was that their personal view and opinion will not change the legislation. I have written to the prosecution team and if that fails I will write to the minister. If that fails I might hit up a current affair. I am sure they would love a story about a system that penalizes those that do the right thing and not the one who does the wrong thing.

Yep, this is bullshit.

And another typical example of useless government think-tanks and their flawed regulations.

2 scenarios :

* 2 boats next to each other.

* Boat 1 with 2 expired licenses with excuses "missus forgot to renew it"

* Boat 2 with 1 license holder and skipper with an expired license ""missus forgot to renew it"

* Fisheries board  boat 1 and rightly bust the non-license holders, (or possibly just the skipper due to perceived responsibility ?)

* Fisheries board boat 2 and bust the license holder.

So on Boat 1, logic applies....... yet on boat 2 (even when the guy who f#cked up has admitted to being at fault), logic flies out the window and they bust the only guy out of the 4 who is doing the right thing........ crazy.

Regarding the issue of someone claiming they were fishing under another license (eg. short-notice decky vs skipper or vice versa)  :

Here's a simple solution to get rid of the grey area if a dispute occurs - issue each license holder with a set number of guest or "Ancillary" Cards.

By providing the card to someone on the boat, they are giving direct permission for that person to fish under their license & in their company.

In the case where If the unlicensed fisher can't present it upon request, they can't try and lob the responsibility on the license holder.

(Alternatively, there can be a simple day register form where the license holder fills out the names of those who they are giving permission to fish)

It's more bullshit & hassle, but this way it proves the license holder has accepted responsibility for unlicensed fishers to fish in their company ?

(Obviously not needed to formally issue cards or daily register in a family type situation where there will be no dispute.)

In the scenario where all on board have licences and overfishing occurs, I believe it is the skipper who is held responsible as he has "control" over who is fishing.

In this case he doesnt have a licence but still has "control" over who is fishing, as he is providing the platform and has the power as skipper to instruct his passengers to follow his lawful commands, just as on a commercial vessel. Just because he has no licence , his power regarding allowing fishing to continue or not isnt reduced.

He should be liable whether it was an oversight or deliberate, though I am reluctant to pile more liability on a skipper.

dal   id definetly be challenging it in court mate ........

seriously you would be a mug not to ..

fisheries will be hoping in your case you will just plead guilty and wear it ...

from personal experience of being hit once years ago on a similar stupid charge ... my advice is plead not guilty to the summons ...i pleaded not guilty , got legal aide advice , did my own representation , against the fisheries officer and crown soliciter on the day , in a local court , ........and won , paid no fine , no civil conviction ,[ thats all this type of  fisheries  offences are i believe not criminal ]  and had the magistrate award all but $ 60 court costs to the fishereis dept to pay , he also advised them to please think carefully , in regards to court time in the future on such cases

fisheries officers are not infallible and can be beaten in court , even the ignorance is no excuse mantra , can be weighed up by a decent magistrate on any given day ...if you have no prior criminal record , [ im assuming you dont ]  present your case as a straight up community minded bloke who holds down a good job , family wife kids ,any charity /community work you might do , personal references  etc [the whole nine yards ] you have to present  a picture of yourself to the magistrate of a law abiding citizen ... because he doesnt know you at all .....who  [ you ]  did to the best of his abilitys to comply with fisheries regulations before he went fishing ........AND WHO DID NOT CONVEY any authority for the skipper to fish on his licence on the day ...THAT THERE WAS NO AGREEMENT OR UNDERSTANDING OF ANY SUCH CONVEYANCE OF SUCH AN AUTHORITY BY YOU TO ANYONE ELSE WHO WAS FISHING ON THE BOAT ON THAT DAY ...

1   speak to a lawyer , many do a free community consult for people on cases fro 30 mins , they give advice and hope you might then use theri service ,, 30 mins isnt long , but present the facts clearly , and you will get their opinion

2 find and read all the relevant regulations , sections , and sub section etc on this RFBL ,the more informed you are , the more holes and questions you can find in their charge against you !!  you need to know this better than the officers themselves ...and CREATE DOUBT/NATURAL JUSTICE  IN THE MAGISTRATES MIND WHEN IT GETS TO COURT

3 get your skipper /mates to sign stat decs on what happend on the day , if the skipper fished under the impression he was fishing on his own licence etc etc .....this is all really important as to your intent on the day and the skippers intent in the taking of those fish imho

4 ask the skipper and mate are they able to attend court if neccessary on the day if needed .....tricky but do able if they are real mates ......

5   representing yourself in court isnt that difficult ,[usually a local court ] get your facts together simply , clearly , stick to the logical simple explanations , justify your position as clearly logically as you can ,

take notes of the crowns cae and use them to pull it apart on them .... it isnt that hard really ,

6   often on the day [actually at the court house ] you can consult free with a court appointed legal aide person for 15 -mins or so ,,  discover which court house your case will be heard at  and where they are within it ..

pm me if you like

this is my honest advice , challenge it !!!!! if all the facts as presented here are true you did nothing  wrong , and would be ill advised to just fall on your sword

regards hezzy

loads of stuff to read but imo. there were 3 on the boat and only 2 with a current rfbl. you all caught the fish and were then checked by fisheries. OK the way i see it. they cant charge the skipper as he didnt have a licence so the 2 licenced fishers cop a fine for both being over the limit. if only 1 gets charged then i would be questioning this but in all it sounds all above board but it does suck big time. i cant see any way out of it so just get the skipper to pay the fine and its a hard lesson learnt.

Authorisations

Part 11Division 2

As at 13 Apr 2012 Version 11-a0-00 page 145

Extract from www.slp.wa.gov.au, see that website for further information

Subdivision 2 — Recreational (boat) fishing licence

[Heading inserted in Gazette 12 Feb 2010 p. 584.]

124B. Recreational (boat) fishing licence, when required

(1) In this regulation —

boat

(2) A person who fishes by use of a boat must hold a recreational

(boat) fishing licence unless —

(a) the person is not required to hold a recreational (boat)

fishing licence under subregulation (3); or

(b) the person is not required to hold a recreational (boat)

fishing licence under subregulation (5); or

(c) the person is fishing for a commercial purpose; or

(d) the person is an Aboriginal person not required to hold a

recreational fishing licence under section 6 of the Act; or

(e) the person is participating in a fishing tour on board a

boat that is specified on a fishing tour operator’s licence,

or a restricted fishing tour operator’s licence, granted

under regulation 128J.

Penalty: a fine of $2 000.

(3) A person (an unlicensed person) is not required to hold a

recreational (boat) fishing licence to fish by use of a boat if the

unlicensed person is fishing with another person who holds a

recreational (boat) fishing licence.

(4) For the purposes of determining whether a bag limit has been

exceeded, any fish taken by an unlicensed person when fishing

under the authority conferred by subregulation (3) are to be

regarded as having been taken by the other person who holds a

recreational (boat) fishing licence.

(5) A person is not required to hold a recreational (boat) fishing

licence to fish by use of a boat if the person in doing so engages

only in an activity set out in the Table to regulation 124 for

Fish Resources Management Regulations 1995

Part 11

Division 3

r. 124C

page 146 Version 11-a0-00 As at 13 Apr 2012

Extract from

Recreational fishing

r. 124B

dal ......   the relevant part of the act is below regarding when you require a recreational boat fishing  licence .

reading it in its full context the skipper should ahve been charged in the first instance imho

it is open to interpretation , but i believe the implied intent of the law was your skipper needed to have his own licence , unless you both had a prior agreement he could fish under your licence ......such as a dad who takes a kid out fishing with him , they co fish the one licence and attached bag limit ...

.from your post , there was no such agreement ..it also could be argued the other fisher [3rd party was equally liable if the fisheries officers chose to charge you under the section they have ...

.have you contacted these guys ?  the 3rd party and the skipper   ...what is there take on it ??

hezzy

Fish Resources Management Regulations 1995

Check the act, I think you will find it reads along the lines of " the master of the vessel must ensure the take of fish by all persons on the boat must not exceed the total bag and boat limit of the fishers holding an RFBL. Your not the master, your unlicensed mate was ?

Myself and the other licences fisherman have been pinged.

The skipper is willing to accept liability but fisheries are saying they cannot ping him because he did not have a licence. His wife called fisheries trying to get the infringement put in his name and fisheries said that this was not possible.

Conrad

no licenced fishermen/women are coming out fishing with me

 ^^^ i think you mean unlicenced.........

"The skipper is willing to accept liability but fisheries are saying they cannot ping him because he did not have a licence. His wife called fisheries trying to get the infringement put in his name and fisheries said that this was not possible."

That's just rubbish on their behalf, following that reasoning none of us need licences as we can't be charged. Take it to court for sure!

As you have stated that your mate is going to pay the fine then the money is clearly not the issue.

I would be finding out if indeed you will receive any kind of " black mark " recorded. If the answer is yes then sure that could be a possible reason to persue it further. If not get your mate to pay the fine & move on.

i think fine is 10 times the value off fish .and on top off that ,a fine for every fish over limit .it sucks and i feel for you but,,plane black and white 2 lic holders 2 limits...i often take 3 out in my boat .sometime only myself and 1 decky have lic .i only come in with 2 limits..if it goes to court could cost a heap more....sucks but fisheries are right ...hard to win in this case....sucks

If you took it to court would it come down to proving if you knew he didnt have a license?

Cant see why more common sense isnt used by officers on the ground. They are probably scared that their backstabbing work mate might tell the boss which may hinder their way up the cockladder! Some of the Rocko fisheries are knobs.  Got a few stories, but knobjockey walks next to me fishing from the jetty and starts going thru my bucket!!!Didnt even ask!

Good luck mate

Get the skipper to claim he is aboriginal.............  problem fixed!!

There has been a hell of a debate on this one including input from myself. Figures have been stated regarding the possible fine for this offense i.e. 10x value of fish and also fine for every fish over the limit. I for one do not know what fines would be dished out if this case went to court and a guilty verdict was handed down.

What would be interesting to know is, has anybody on the forum acctualy been charged and fined for a similar offence and if so what was the fine.

 Apart from that this case is worth fighting as it may well change the laws regarding rec fishing.

 If you do decide to fight this crazy situation I wish you all the very best.   

I'm trying to understand this...... if he cant be busted because he does not have a license, then why do we all buy licenses?

hi guys

i found myself in this same situation a few weeks ago(1 fish over the bag limit) with someone onboard with a expierd lic (i didnt know and neither did he) the fine was given to me as i had a current one.

we asked the officer many many questions like all the above and the expired lic holder contacted them recently to issue the fine to his newly renewed lic........today the officer contacted me by phone with the outcome.

this is in a nut shell what he said

1..the fine must go to a current lic holder......myself...this is for over the bag limit

2..if you are within the boat/bag limit with no lic holders onboard then the master of the boat gets the fine for not having a valid fishing lic

3..if you are over the boat/bag limits with no lic holders onboard, then the master will get 2 fines, 1 for not having a valid lic and 1 for the baglimits

4..if one person on board admits he got all the fish by himself, then all of the fine goes to him only.

5..if you all admit catching the fish the fine is given to all onboard.

6..mark against my name...this was disscused in great detail (my major concern) and he assures me there is notes on the file stating the senario.. ie: i held a current lic, was not over my bag limit,i had a expired lic holder onboard, expired lic holder admits the fish is his, fine goes to me.

so in short,

dont bother to fight it in court as you will not win, either way someone broke the law and someone will pay, like it or not thats how the law is written.

i agree and so did he that it is not fair or wright for the person doing the wright thing to get penalized, but thats the law and the way it is written is how it works

in conclusion we did agree on the only way to be 100% safe is to site the persons lic when they board your boat on every occassion, or if they are your reg fishing buddie then maybe write down there expiry date somewhere for you to check reguarly.

i also mentioned this post to him and as he is a fellow fisher and dose know of fishwrecked, he was going to have a look and possibly reply....be gently!!!

they are aware of this issue, but by the rule book this is how it must go, trust me guys, you will not win.

get your skipper to cough up the cash for the fine and move on, chalk it up to something you have learned and now are aware off and should not happen again.

if you want to know anymore of what was disscussed drop me a pm or reply here.

cheers ron

p.s  dont worry im still not happy about it, but nothing we can do