Cray divers and other fishers, time to put your keyboard where your mouth is for Bret Carters court case.
there has been no change to Fisheries stance on his impending Supreme Court appeal.
So now is the time to get your lazy asses moving and write a short email of protest to the Minister for Fisheries Joe Francis.
This would seem to be the only way now to avoid this going to court, by showing Minister Francis how many people may be affected by this, aside from the toll on Bret himself.
It has become apparent that a few people have already been fined for the same thing, but only Bret had the fortitude to push ahead and defend it, to his credit.
Please take 5 minutes of your time to support the many $1k's Bret has already spent on this and flick off an email.
Tonite I will put up a stock email but a short one in your own words is worth way more.
I started trying to put a Change.org petition together without success, it just locks up on my computer when trying to save?
Does anyone have experience of putting one together?
What is needed is as many people as possible to write a short email to the Minister of Fisheries Joe Francis,
Minister.Francis@dpc.wa.gov.au
and CC Director of Fisheries Heather Brayford. (note the email address is her assistant)
Also CC Recfishwest and myself
Matt@recfishwest.org.au
starboardside@westnet.com.au
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
scotto
Posts: 2470
Date Joined: 21/04/08
done.
I whipped up this Bad-bay:
To whom it may concern,
I am writing to voice my opinion on the upcoming Bret Carter VS Fisheries W.A. supreme court case. I am absolutely appalled at Fisheries W.A’s attitude towards this matter, and the victimisation Fisheries are applying to Bret.
Bret’s actions on the day of his original infringement, is not only a common occurrence with almost every single recreational diving crayfisher (including myself, and all I dive with), but his actions were by far and large, the safest way to catch and check his catch, and with no harm to the crayfish. It is, as far as I and every one I know interpret the rules and regulations, acceptable to do as he did, and check his catch on the safety of his boat’s deck.
It is permitable for West Australian recreational crayfish potters to have ample time to check their catch on the deck of their boats, so why not recreational divers?? Please also note, that divers (even shallow water diving), also has other dangerous implications, like shark attacks, decompression sickness, collisions with other vessels, and nitrogen narcosis to contend with, so as little time in the water as possible decreases those risks.
I personally believe if the supreme court’s decision goes against Bret, it certainly will not be taken well by the vast, tight-knit, and law abiding community of recreational fishers in W.A. It will undo a lot of proactive work completed by Government bodies (such as RecFishWest, etc), who in conjunction with recreational fishers, have worked very hard to allow recreational fishers good access to their portion of the total allowable catch of crayfish.
I also feel that the whole case from the date of the original infringement up until now, has wrongfully had a very impacting, financial, and stressful affect on Bret and his family, and I hope that the Government bodies involved, see the general publics opinion such as I have mentioned above, and withdraw any further proceedings against Bret.
Regards,
Scott Marshall.
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Scotto that is awesome, way
Scotto that is awesome, way better than I could have written.
Id suggest that those who dont have the time or inclination, with Scottos permission, use something similar or rejig.
Though personally I can see them tossing them out if there is 20 identical emails, so at least start of different
Or just state that it is unfair on Bret, has no point, in the absence of an explanation why Fisheries find it necessary to persecute Bret and it would un-necessarily add to the hazards of diving as a sport.
And especially the Fisheries are burning up all their accumulated goodwill with an entire sector of the rec fishing community.
The very people people who they should be cultivating as their eyes and ears.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
scotto
Posts: 2470
Date Joined: 21/04/08
Yep, cut and paste away.
Sorry, I forgot to say thats actually why I put it up.
feel free to cut and paste, and alter at leisure guys.
big john
Posts: 8726
Date Joined: 20/07/06
You're
You're a wordsmith scotto! Good job.
WA based manufacturer and supplier of premium leadhead jigs, fligs, bucktail jigs, 'bulletproof' soft plastic jig heads and XOS bullet jig heads.
Jigs available online in my web store!
oz74
Posts: 274
Date Joined: 14/05/12
story
what's the story Rob?
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Divers
scroll down to Phantomcats explanation
http://fishwrecked.com/forum/divers-important
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Travisd
Posts: 315
Date Joined: 07/05/11
Done
Thanks for the heads up Rob. Told them my two cents. They are a bunch of bureaucratic bullies.. nothing more
It won't gather momentum. No judge in his right mind will undo what has been rightfully said
Baron Sportsman
Just the depth that Varies
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
I have put a fair bit of
I have put a fair bit of time into this with plenty of rather pointless to and fro with the Director of Fisheries, who has told me that they are doing it "to obtain clarification of the definition of take in the legislation".
The previous Court outcome in the local court does not establish a precedent.
Hence why they are taking this to the Supreme Court, which does establish a legal precedent.
Normally in this situation the Government will fund the defendants costs as the outcome is more important than the individual conviction.
However here they are not.
In effect they are bypassing all the consultation and education normally required to bring about a rule change, which annoys the crap out of me as Hezzy and I, among others put a bit of effort into the process.
Recfishwest are also onto this, but their processes are different from what Joe Average can do.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
quadfisher
Posts: 1146
Date Joined: 28/09/10
Out of control!
Sent mine off just then , similar to scottos, I really feel for Bret and hate to see a fellow citizen and rec fisher
being dealt with in this way.
I dont know Bret , but feel like this is something all decent and fair minded fishos should support.
I encourage everyone to send off a personnel email , however brief or literate as I believe it has a greater impact than
endless signatures, that the Govt must recieve everyday.
Stick together , leave no one behind ( or to fight a unjust court case ) by themselves.
quadfisher
Deleted
Posts: 6265
Date Joined: 26/04/14
dont dive for crays but sent
dont dive for crays but sent one away, copied scottos letter. good luck
striker
Posts: 224
Date Joined: 26/09/14
Email sent
I tried to copy n paste my reply here but won't let me. simply say I respect the need for policing of our natural resources but find fisheries overbearing and bullying in this case.
scotto
Posts: 2470
Date Joined: 21/04/08
Out of interest,
does anyone have the name of the fisheries officer or regional manager, that originally fined phantomcat? I heard a pretty appalling story about a fisheries officer with an extremely bad attitude, who was on the warpath on the weekend.
scotto
Posts: 2470
Date Joined: 21/04/08
Also,
is there a time and date for phantomcats court hearing/case?
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Its in Sept 16, I have it
Its in Sept 16, I have it somewhere in the correspondence but not to hand.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
This is awesome, there is a
This is awesome, there is a fair bit of correspondencxe flowing through now-
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
abrohlosorbust
Posts: 99
Date Joined: 08/06/12
Email letter sent again
Done again!
please keep us updated
Getting wet is part of the Fun
Boston Whaler 235 Conquest
Stoinka
Posts: 413
Date Joined: 02/09/06
Sent letter of disgust
All done.
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
lets keep some momentum on
lets keep some momentum on this, about 10 or 15 here have written awesome emails, that leaves around a couple of thousand active fishers who are members here still to flick out an email...
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
MandurahMatt
Posts: 613
Date Joined: 18/09/13
I done it a while back. I
I done it a while back. I recon theres probably a few more who have done also wothout telling everyone about it.
Bewdey Fellaz
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Could be so, but the reason
Could be so, but the reason I asked to be CCed in was as I printed them all out and took them in to a meeting with my local member last friday for him to deliver in hard copy to the Minister.
Was very unfortunate that I didnt know until the meeting that Minister Francis had been there only an hour before to open the new local VMR building.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Krusty
Posts: 714
Date Joined: 27/11/15
I just sent a short
I just sent a short email.
Hopefully it helps.
My fishing spots are so secret........... even the fish don't know where they are !!
Oldbull
Posts: 175
Date Joined: 21/09/15
done
Yep - just sent mine
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Keep them coming guys, I
Keep them coming guys, I will be printing them out and have a meeting tomorrow arvo with someone who may be able to present them direct to the minister next week.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
RobertMc
Posts: 326
Date Joined: 19/01/09
done mate
done mate
Subaquatic
Posts: 515
Date Joined: 23/04/11
Done: Dear Minister. I
Done:
Dear Minister.
I would like to add my name to the long, and growing list of disappointed people regarding the Bret Carter VS Fisheries W.A. supreme court case.
This was a simple misunderstanding of the regulations, and Bret’s actions were proven to be lawful by a court of Law
To continue to pursue this case is a wasteful exercise, and fruitless.
Your officers’ actions after the last case were unprofessional, discourteous and unwarranted. It seems this appeal is based on vengeance, and not for the sake of protecting the fishery.
I urge you to reconsider the departments position, and focus on more important issues.
Regards
Dave
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Officers did nothing
It was there boss.( outside court rooms) But very well put. I just checked my roster iam off. I would think numbers of people showing up in court would have a big affect . Guy did nothing different to any other diver would. Hence him swimming back to boat on surface with catch. Knowing fisheries where there. Waste of tax payers money. Rules plain and simple.
Alan James
Posts: 2207
Date Joined: 30/06/09
Lawyer???
Does anyone know if Bret is still planning to represent himself rather than engage the services of a lawyer?
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Lawyer
High court one. Different from lawyer in rocko courts. Totally different league & $$$$. I think.
scotto
Posts: 2470
Date Joined: 21/04/08
response
I just got a very vague, and lacklustre response from Heather Brayford, Director General at Fisheries. its a scanned PDF, so I cant cut/paste it here, but it goes on about 2 main points - "bag limits" and "take".
it makes mention that protected species are "required to be returned to their natural environment as soon as possible". hopefully Bret and his defence emphasise that it is dangerous and hard to correctly identify "protected" crayfish, whilst underwater, especially in murky, swelly, surgey conditions, whilst trying to look for fine, sometimes microscopic hairs on cray legs.
ie: as soon as possible, would be AFTER its been correctly identified, on the safety and perfect environment (the same environment that rec potters get...) of the deck of the boat.
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
chucked you a message
chucked you a message
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Deleted
Posts: 6265
Date Joined: 26/04/14
Sounds like the same email I
Sounds like the same email I just received. Will try paste it here later
uncle
Posts: 9353
Date Joined: 10/02/07
just done
highlighted the safety side getting out of danger,reminded him about I fish and I vote
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
hornet42
Posts: 179
Date Joined: 24/07/12
E mail Sent
will try to keep an eye on the outcome of this. please keep us Posted
PB Dhu 850 mm Pink 820mm
Deleted
Posts: 6265
Date Joined: 26/04/14
Sorry about the size
Sorry about the size couldn't fix it from phone.
scotto
Posts: 2470
Date Joined: 21/04/08
yeah mate
same one as mine...
Bucko
Posts: 138
Date Joined: 08/05/10
What a bunch of BS. Time to
What a bunch of BS.
Time to get a pot, tie it to your boat, stick your crays in it before you come up. Then pull once on board.
Job done.
bradz
Posts: 693
Date Joined: 29/10/07
Sent
Just sent mine.
I did then the best that I knew how. When I knew better, I did better.
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
A rule
Is a set of explicit or understood regs of an activity .interpretion an action of explaining the meaning of something. So another words 2 officers interpretation of something doesn't ,mean it's a rule. They can't make rules as they feel like it.( I think I made sense ).
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
The letter posted above is
The letter posted above is exactly the same as the one I received about 3 months back.
I have read the Magistrates judgement, and it says similar about the perils of a SPECIFIC meaning of take being a bad thing.
Also that using the interpretation Fisheries presented to the court would mean that also a pot would be considered to have "taken" a cray once it entered the neck.
There is still work to do on this, and there is also more that has been done and is being, in the background.
Unfortunately this is a public forum, and as the saying goes "keep your powder dry".
In a couple of days, when I get time Ill go back thru and connect those whose emails I got with usernames here I can ID then send you a little more info, or maybe just reply to your email?
Some, unfortunately I may not be able to connect with a name here though.
Last week on my way thru Freo to work I met up with Bret for a chinwag
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
uncle
Posts: 9353
Date Joined: 10/02/07
got the sane email
back today
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
Krusty
Posts: 714
Date Joined: 27/11/15
I got the same one on
I got the same one on Thursday.
My fishing spots are so secret........... even the fish don't know where they are !!
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
haha
haha, I tried to get people to avoid as much as possible just copying and pasting an email to Fisheries/politicians.
But they dont mind doing it...
I got that email 4 months plus ago
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Cruise Control
Posts: 971
Date Joined: 03/11/10
Yep, got my response (same
Yep, got my response (same as) today. They don't address the issue of safety by the diver staying under longer than necessary.
bradz
Posts: 693
Date Joined: 29/10/07
Same
Got mine yesterday.
That line that says the priority is the protection of the fish and not the comfort and convenience of the fisher...wjhat about their safety?
Sounds like the opposite stance the government takes in relation to Great Whites where the safety of swimmers is rated as higher than the safety of GW's. Not that I particularly disagree with that stance.
I did then the best that I knew how. When I knew better, I did better.
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Lol
15 th I believe . Let's see how it goes. 100 % showing up .
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Its the 27thI will be away
Its the 27th
I will be away at sea or Id drive down for it myself.
Spoke with Bret today, its a shit situation.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Court Case
I have drafted an email to the Minister and Fisheries which I have Cced to everyone who I saw a protest email from, I will send this in the morning
Apologies if I missed anyone, feel free to let me know if you dont see it in the morning.
Attached to it is also the last response I received from the Director of Fisheries.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
some info
Had a phone call just now from my local MP Paul Brown.
Unfortunately it was quickly apparent that the information he has been given by the Ministers office, is completely at odds with what Bret has in writing.
This is all to do with what Fisheries/Prosecutors intend to do if they are successful.
Very disapointing, and I must admit to feeling greatly frustrated at whoever it is in Government passing on wrong info.
At best the left hand doesnt know which butt cheek the right hand is scratching.
At worst, we are being given misleading information to appease the masses.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
Being given misleading information to appease the masses
This is the stock and trade of (IMO) all politicians, tell the masses nothing and make sure that the telling of nothing lasts a good 25 - 30 minutes. I totally agree with the statement above about the interpretation that fisheries has put on the word "take".
Without drawing a long bow, to take from its natural environment ie: the pulling up of a cray pot with a cray inside it is to remove the animal from its natural environment. Therefore every person who pulls a cray pot be they professional or amature is guilty of "taking.
The outcome of this appeal has very serious ramifications apart from the obvious one, where by a great wrong has been perpetuated, I hope that all FW members make it known to their respective MPs that with a looming state election not to far away the actions of the fisheries minister will long be remembered when the time to vote comes around and fair minded people will make their displeasure with the way this situation has been handled known when they place their vote.
Cruise Control
Posts: 971
Date Joined: 03/11/10
Is it worthwhile bringing
Is it worthwhile bringing the labour shadow member in for comment ? Any opportunity to get their name or face out there and the more people that know, the better. Especially the resource that is being invested by Fisheries over this.
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
The resorces being used
Are paid for by you and me, the minister and his lackeys would not be giving a rats arse about how much the exercise is costing, and why should they, they will not be held accountable.
The person responsible for this fiasco is not going to be chastised or get a dressing down, all that will happen if the fisheries are not successful with their appeal will be this, bad luck bill that bastard got away with it.
I know what we'll do, lets change the laws so that we can get them next time around and, keep your eye out for "the one that got away" lets not forget who he is, he's just a smart arse and we'll fix him up next season.
little johnny
Posts: 5330
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Bang on
Meglodon .
uncle
Posts: 9353
Date Joined: 10/02/07
These are the same muppets
Who after 4 years study dont know if the great white shark population is going up or down!!
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
scotto
Posts: 2470
Date Joined: 21/04/08
this case is today, right?
someone post some updates whenever there is one please
rigpig
Posts: 507
Date Joined: 21/11/12
email sent
hope this turns out well for Bret..
Swompa
Posts: 3786
Date Joined: 14/10/12
Looking forward to hearing
Looking forward to hearing positive news on this one...
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Case
sorry guys I am out of touch with rare internet at sea between Indo and Kimberley.
Case has been adjourned til Feb
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
Case defered,
There is a god, with the case to be adjudicated on 1 month prior to there being a state election the results will be in the face of all those (who believe that justice prevails) and there is a tooth fairy. I really hope that the case is well reported and voters of all political persuasion think long and hard about who to cast a vote for if they live in the minister for fisheries electorate.
It's going to be a hard decision to make, do I vote for Hillary, Donald or Joe they are all pretty much of the same standard I think.
timboon
Posts: 2924
Date Joined: 14/11/10
You fishing Rob or Oil n
You fishing Rob or Oil n Gas?
Inpex?
Prelude?
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Prelude
Prelude
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.