Engine problem and launching ethic
I flushed the engine for approx 5 minutes yesterday before went out this morning at Leeuwin. The outboard was running fine yesterday.
But when I tried to start the engine this morning, the outboard didnt start. It did try to start but couldnt wake up the outboard.
Luckily we were still at the ramp. We tried choking, checking the fuel line and everything seems to be in order.
As we really wanted to go out, we waited for 20 minutes and the outboard finally started and running fine for the whole day.
Other boaties adviced me to warm up the outboard for at least 10 mins on the ramp. If I do this at the furthest end of the ramp, I may held other people up and risk getting shout at.
I hadnt use the boat for at least a month but I did warm up the engine for 5 mins the day before we went out though.
My outboard is a honda 90hp( done 546 hrs) and last service was in Nov.
Any idea what went wrong?
Cheers mate
BradG
Posts: 25
Date Joined: 22/09/13
How old is the fuel and does
How old is the fuel and does it crank over?
JohnF
Posts: 2836
Date Joined: 07/07/10
Honda 90 hp 4 stroke should
Honda 90 hp 4 stroke should start first kick........is your battery fully charged? You should get a proper multi stage charger (CTEK or similar) and make sure your batteries are at peak before you head out, as you get max cranking speed and minimum voltage drop, both which affect starting.
If older 4 stroke, I guess it is carbie?? If so, carbs probably need a clean/service, or a new set of plugs. Plugs are eas to do yourself, I would do this before I headed out again.
Boston Whaler 235 Conquest......getting the flogging it was built for.
Swompa
Posts: 3885
Date Joined: 14/10/12
I have never seen anyone run
I have never seen anyone run the motor at the ramp prior to going out.
At Leeuwin, you can just go to the non used side of a finger jetty and sort yourself out. Most ramps have a spot, either at the end of a jetty where you get yourself sorted.
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
I've seen a few people
I have seen a few people at various ramps more to the very end of the jetty or to a finger jetty and sort out a problem that has come up. To me it's no problem and I haven't seen anyone arc up about it, it could happen to any of us.
Rob H
Posts: 5798
Date Joined: 18/01/12
did it sound like it was
did it sound like it was cranking at full speed? Is it an EFI or the early carby one (not familiar which of the early ones were carby?).
The suggestions above are good ones-JohnF's suggestion of the Ctek charger is one probably every sporadic boaty should use. You can buy a Ctek 5 amp for about $80 of Autoelecau (Ebay)and it will do everything you need especially a "recond" mode.
Personally I certainly don't recommend leaving your battery permanently on float charge though-- you will only find its on the way out when its not on charge (on the water!), not good if you don't have dual batteries.
Stuck on the finger jetty? Help people go around you if need be and explain whats happening-you may even find a knowledgable and helpful soul who finds the problem!
I had a problem last week and had to retrieve at Freo Sailing Club-Tristran (harbourmaster) couldn't have done more to assist-not everyone down there are ogres :-)
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
beau
Posts: 4104
Date Joined: 24/01/10
Having your boat at the end
Having your boat at the end of the ramp jetty while you sort out an outboard issue wouldnt bother me either, as long as there is still room on another ramp or even in front of your boat to launch and retrieve. See it all the time at Woodies
tim-o
Posts: 4657
Date Joined: 24/05/11
There should be a designated
There should be a designated sick bay for boats at ramps, while 2strokes exist anyhow lol. Never a hard thing taking off with someone on the end. As for the outboard not firing, obviously not a battery issue or it won't crank over. Take a can of aerostart or carb cleaner next time. If the same occurs, spray a bit into the intake (take cover off) and if it fires you know its a fuel related issue. My Honda 50 cranks for a bit if I haven't pumped the primer a bit. Could be fouled plugs after idling on the muffs due to shit fuel (avoid standard unleaded)
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
Rig
Posts: 2925
Date Joined: 27/12/06
Ha ha
Always gold Tim-0
i saw a guy start his modern 4 stroke in the car park at ocean reef, dry.
anyway if you can get out the way and even pull up on the sand either side of that ramp nobody should get upset
sea-kem
Posts: 14984
Date Joined: 30/11/09
With this hot weather could
With this hot weather could be a fuel evap issue? I've had to prime mine the last couple of trips out on the hot days, never have to normally.
Love the West!
uncle
Posts: 9474
Date Joined: 10/02/07
some time shit happens!
I always start up the day before as well, seems to work out well
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
This may sound sillly and so
This may sound sillly and so obvious, but I was guilty of it once.... honda 75hp... luckily I was in the driveway at home... didnt pump the fuel bulb and flattened the battery trying to start it.... wont make that mistake again..
Fish! HARD!
Reefmonkey
Posts: 711
Date Joined: 22/09/08
Non issue farting around at
Non issue farting around at the back of the jetty. the pain in the ass is if you can't get it started and have to pull the boat back out. You'll stop the endless que of boats trying to launch put everything in a bind while you go get your trailer and pull the boat back out.
No dramas if you eventually get it started but i'd imagine alot of pissed off boaties if you had to pull it out.
Dave J.
BONO38
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 19/10/13
Thanks very much for all the
Thanks very much for all the advices
BradG, The fuel is about 1 month old... when I topped it up, only cost me $3 so it was pretty full
JohnF, I have a dual battery on the boat (I even charged it the night before), it was fine when I used it because I can hear the outboard trying to start but the engine could not start.
I always keep the fuel line open, should I pump the fuel bulb after not using for a month? This is my second time boating and it's my first boat,...
The outboard is a Honda 4 stroke made in 1996, I am not sure which model (the colour is silver)
When I bought the boat, the previous owner told me that he used normal unleaded, should I change and use 95 instead the normal unleaded fuel?
I will probably start warming up the outboard at least every week just in case.
I havent got experience with outboard... not too sure how to change plugs, I'll have to youtube it so thanks for the tips.
Cheers
Bono
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
I run a 2005 75 hp honda and
I run a 2005 75 hp honda and I have to pump the fuel bulb if I havent run it for anything more than a day or two otherwise the starter will just turn over without the engine firing. Having said that, I generally turn the motor over in the driveway before an outing. If thats going to be an early morning start I'll do that the afternoon before so I dont wake the neighbours.
If the boats sits in the driveway for an extended time, I make a habit of running the motor at least once a fortnight.
Fish! HARD!
DTrain
Posts: 486
Date Joined: 10/02/12
Definitley pump the priming
Definitley pump the priming bulb if you haven't used the boat in a while. Usually 4 or 5 pumps until the bulb goes firm.
My old boat was a 90 hp carburetor 2 stroke and I always had to prime it before a trip. I think the fuel evaporates from the carbies between trips or it might leak out when you drive around with the engine tilted up.
My guess would be that by constantly trying to start the engine you ran the fuel pump for long enough to prime the carbies and start it.
Rig
Posts: 2925
Date Joined: 27/12/06
prime
If this was an old 2 stroke I would say definately need to prime but with 4 strokes when you turn you ignition on before starting you shoukld be able to hear the fuel pump prime your system usually takes about 2 seconds then its ready to start. I never have to pump the bulb on mine.
when you say you leave the fuel line open do you mean connected to the motor? as it should alwasy stay connected no need to run dry
So I think either this isnt happening re fuel pump priming or you may have a problem with your fuel line, a blockage or leak
as for fuel types thats up to you but it wont really make too much difference for this problem
Spicey
Posts: 219
Date Joined: 17/01/11
Safety Switch
I know it sounds simple but sometime times the safety switch on our Honda slips off slightly, it can be an easy one to forget while running through everything else. It will crank without firing.
straith
Posts: 421
Date Joined: 25/11/13
Any chance its flooding coz
Any chance its flooding coz youve run it day before and then tilted it to tow it?
Prob a two stroke answer but I always flushed and disconnected fuel hose and let it run out of fuel.
Then pumped bulb before starting once upright again and never had a problem.
Pardon my 4stroke ignorance if this is wrong.
Paul H
Posts: 2104
Date Joined: 18/01/07
Never disconnect the fuel
I'm assuming the 90 Honda is a 4 stroke but -
Never disconnect the fuel hose on an oil injected 2 stroke (or pre-mix for that matter) when running (to run dry). When oil injected 2 strokes aren't getting fuel they just pump more oil in to compensate you will fill it with an oil rich mixture which will foul plugs and cause you problems next time you go to start..
running day before and then tilting it is not a problem but making sure you have fuel up to the motor prior to trying to start is needed other wise it will just get oil and no or little fuel and cause problems
Four strokes don't have the same problem (due to lacking oil injection system obviously)
Youtube Channel - FishOnLine Productions
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbUVNa-ViyGm_FTDSv4Nqzg/videos
wainy
Posts: 21
Date Joined: 24/07/09
Ive got the same
I have the same motor but its 1998 i think they are all carbie back then,
mine hasn't seen a boat mech for years i change the plugs, oil and water pump most years
Sounds like either flooded or no fuel to me
There is a screw on each carby bowl i drain incase of any water every now and again
Only thing is make sure the motor is down before pumping the fuel bulb and when its hard stop, full choke and mine starts everytime.
Only trouble i had was the neutral switch rattled loose and was giving an in gear signal so had nothing at the key at all, had us stumped for a while
Cheers
Glen
BONO38
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 19/10/13
I will take it out again
I will take it out again sometime next week or this week and see if the problem still occurs i will bring it to the mechanic.
Any recommendation for honest outboard mechanic, I live in Osborne Park?
Just wondering what will you do if the outboard is flooded ? should you call mechanic or just wait until it fix itself?
I just start the engine , it went alright but there is a water coming out from the exhaust please see the pict.
Rob H
Posts: 5798
Date Joined: 18/01/12
no pic?
if it wont start after a couple of cranks (not 10 mins!:-))
1/ check the safety switch-unplug, jiggle and twist it
2/ jiggle the gear lever in case the neutral start switch is a little dicky/sticky
3/ then try again a couple of times. If it usually takes more than a couple of cranks to start anyhow Id say its overdue for a tuneup.
4/ Im not familiar with these Hondas as such but if it has a mechanical choke it should only need it for the first couple of cranks. If its auto then it will do its thing (good or bad)
5/ If it still hasn't started then engage the neutral throttle (not sure on Hondas the setup), give it full throttle and crank.
Some newer outboards wont allow it to crank but most older ones do as the switch is on the gear linkage not throttle.
Crank with full throttle out of gear, if its flooded it should start then.
If it doesn't maybe take the cover off and a tiny squirt of "start ya bastard" (as a once off-if its required you need it looked at asap)
Failing all that, don't go out, get it looked at by a real proper outboard mechanic!
EDIT-make sure you have a fire extinguisher on board while doing this and don't put your face anywhere near the carbies while trying to start with S-Y-B or flooded :-)
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
BONO38
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 19/10/13
Flush and there is water come out from exhaust
the photo with the outboard turn on and there is a water come out from exhaust is it normal?
big blue
Posts: 57
Date Joined: 25/03/10
yep that's pretty normal...
yep that's pretty normal... water is dumped into the exhaust keep it cool & help reduce noise
when it warms up the exhaust will come thru the prop & not out the port your looking at
probably need to get some service history from the previous owner..... service in November last could have been a lick-&-a-promise, especially if the previous owner was not keen on putting any coin into the boat before selling... see if you can get the invoice from the service agent, as well I've seen some dodgy repairers around lately, if you have no idea on how the outboard works, you probably need to find a reputable dealer get an appraisal & service, & stick with them if your happy with what they do, I know the Honda agent in Wangara is pretty good
unfortunately all the scuttlebutt you get from these forums will only confuse you if you have no mechanical nouse or experience .... get the advice from the horses mouth!!!
Rob H
Posts: 5798
Date Joined: 18/01/12
scuttlebutt?had a look at
scuttlebutt?
had a look at pretty much everything above and cant see where anyone has posted anything other than pretty good advice of a basic nature (for a change!) and lots of stuff that everyone should check before getting a mechanic on it.
Especially if there isnt one available, like out on the briny
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
big blue
Posts: 57
Date Joined: 25/03/10
How many qualified mechanics
How many qualified mechanics have put in there sixpence worth?
Rob H
Posts: 5798
Date Joined: 18/01/12
me, Tim-o, not sure who else
me, Tim-o, at least one mechanical engineer and several who have owned similar outboards, but no ones advocated "pull it apart" or "throw it in the bin".
All just stuff that I wish Id known 30 years ago really before I actually needed it.
Most of them above I know of are certainly experienced outboard users.
All good advice including yours
Out of curiosity what would you class as "scuttlebutt" above?
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
big blue
Posts: 57
Date Joined: 25/03/10
As I said before, take it to
As I said before, take it to someone who knows what they are talking about & get it checked
as far as making assumptions as to what maybe wrong with your outboard on a forum, all good advice on what to do but unless you can physically inspect it for the problemit could be any number of things
As far as scuttlebutt, quickest way to get a small fire going on your O/B would be to give a lungful of aerostart
& someone gives advice on a Honda & has to ask if it's a four stroke obviously isn't up to speed with the latest
iana
Posts: 652
Date Joined: 21/09/09
Number of issues here.
1/ Any person skippering a boat should have an understanding of how a motor works, and should be able to carry out basic repairs.
2/ Of the above information its all correct, including yours, although I wouldn't call it scuttlebutt.
3/ If all the members of this forum stopped making comments because they were not "suitably qualified", there would be no forum. it's about getting together and chipping in that's important.
4/ Rather than becoming "qualified mechanics" perhaps a course at adult education on basic engine work, in fact boat repairs in general would be the go.
5/ There is always the search entry, which should bring up loads of info on this subject.
Paul H
Posts: 2104
Date Joined: 18/01/07
Actually I would have been
Actually I would have been happy to bet my boat that it was a fourstroke for obvious reasons (even though not stated). My advice on not running an oil injected two stroke dry on fuel was directed at the post above mine not the original poster.
Certainly don't claim to have any qualifications as a marine mech but have owned a number of boats over the last 25 years and now know enough to get me out of trouble in most situations and conduct some repairs myself. If I just took it to a mechanic each time apart from being poorer I would not have learnt much at all over the years. Some of the good info I have learnt has been talking to non qualified persons about their experiences/problems and how they fixed them and this includes forums.
In my opinion both forums and qualified mechanics have their place (and agreed a certain degree of caution should be taken with any info gained from the internet). The original poster asked for some advice and some was given. Only the poster can then decide what he feels he is capable of doing and what the next stage of action for him should be......
Youtube Channel - FishOnLine Productions
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbUVNa-ViyGm_FTDSv4Nqzg/videos
thesupervisor
Posts: 1136
Date Joined: 10/06/09
there are plenty of so called
there are plenty of so called quilifed mechanics out there who are useless all the gear and no idea
and there are plenty of people who have no bit of paper who have a good understanding and can fix stuff
if you still have no joy ill reccomend marine masters he is mobile mick is very good from my experiances
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/ballajura/motorboats-powerboats/marine-masters-mobile-marine-servicing-/1036349064
getting the bottom line final answer from a bunch of blokes that use false names and put smiley faces at the end of paragraphs is not the best place in the world to get the information you seek.
sea-kem
Posts: 14984
Date Joined: 30/11/09
A lot of the "scuttlebut"
A lot of the "scuttlebut" you talk of mate is guys who have the same experience etc, handy hints to get you going if you're stuck out on the ocean. As I said my 4 stroke Suzi had to be primed while we were out the other day. Never happened before so I put it down to evaportion. Keep the comments coming lads, they are all helpful.
Love the West!
big blue
Posts: 57
Date Joined: 25/03/10
according to Merriam-Webster
according to Merriam-Webster Dictionary..... scut·tle·butt noun \ˈskə-təl-ˌbət\ : talk or stories about someone that may not be true Full Definition of SCUTTLEBUTT
1 a : a cask on shipboard to contain freshwater for a day's use b : a drinking fountain on a ship or at a naval or marine installation
2 : rumor, gossip See scuttlebutt defined for English-language learners » See scuttlebutt defined for kids » Examples of SCUTTLEBUTT Origin of SCUTTLEBUTT alteration of scuttled butt butt with a hole cut into it First Known Use: circa 1805 Related to SCUTTLEBUTT Synonymsbuzz, dish, gossip, hearsay, noise, report, rumor, talk, tattle, word Related Wordstale, whisper, whispering; hint, intimation, rumbling; disinformation, propaganda; urban legend (also urban myth); dirt, scandal more
obviously hit a raw nerve with some of the posters!
didn't think it would get quite the reaction......no offence intended to anyone who has offered suggestions, I think most of them are valid without going any deeper BONO, if you have limited experience, mechanically, or nautically, best get someone who knows about your particular machine & get some peace of mind, because it's only gunna be you that's sitting waiting for someone to come & tow you home, at best I know of plenty of situations where things have not gone well because of well intentioned advices
including advice I've given!