fisheries get new powers
interesting move by the dept below
hezzy
The Department of Fisheries has conducted its first covert operation under contentious laws giving it the power to take assumed identities and commit crimes while undercover to crack poaching rings.
In a hotly contested move, the Government made Fisheries a “law enforcement agency” for the purposes of the Criminal Investigation (Covert Powers) Act enacted in March 2013.
A compliance report for 2013-14 tabled in Parliament last week revealed the first operation, launched on November 4, 2013, did not go well.
The probe into suspected selling of fish taken unlawfully under the Fish Resources Management Act yielded no arrests or charges and “notwithstanding attempts ... made by Fisheries officers, no controlled conduct was undertaken”.
The laws were introduced in all States to allow authorities “seamless cross-border investigation” of serious and organised crime without having to obtain authorisation in each jurisdiction.
Police Commissioner Karl O’Callaghan, the Opposition, the parliamentary committee overseeing the Corruption and Crime Commission and a separate review committee that scrutinised the laws in 2012 all questioned why Fisheries needed the powers.
The department’s serious offences unit was already empowered to do covert surveillance operations, of which there were seven between 2007 and 2011. Four yielded charges.
But in a hearing before the committee in December 2011, SOU officer in charge Carl Grossetti argued Fisheries needed the powers, especially assumed identities, because organised crime gangs were diversifying into illegal fishing.
He sketched a scenario in which an undercover Fisheries officer may need to “swap a rock lobster for a handgun”, which would otherwise be unlawful.
The review committee found the department had “not provided persuasive evidence of organised crime in the industry” and noted no other jurisdiction had given its fisheries department access to the powers.
The argument was overruled by Police Minister Liza Harvey, who told Parliament there would be more checks and balances on covert operations would be subject to more checks and balances if brought under the umbrella of the Act.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/26485712/undercover-op-a-fizzer-for-fisheries/
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evil flourishes when good men do nothing
Adam Gallash
Posts: 15644
Date Joined: 29/11/05
Hmmmm
Interesting indeed, lots of possible scenarios on how that could play out. Still think its better to bump up the fines and make it not worth it for the serious crooks.
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Rob H
Posts: 5797
Date Joined: 18/01/12
my opinion, like it or not...
Fisheries are already working outside their boundaries now.
Producing rules, changes etc with no consultation and from what I have seen very little forethought.
This has been the message Ive had when speaking to Recfishwest about where the consultation input is coming from on the ground.
To my mind they are working under the idea that everyone is either a crim who hasnt been caught yet or hasnt had the right opportunity to offend yet.
They should be looking more to get the "good guys" on their side to be the eyes and ears-far more effective.
For me, they are at the stage where I need to tell my kids "if they ask you anything do not answer without me present" as it concerns me with all this crap like whos pots caught the crays etc.
Stupid rules with stupid consequences-for no good reason than to annoy otherwise law abiding people.
For those on here who think Fisheries are gods own messengers, thats not my opinion Im sorry.
Having said all that, I know a fair few officers by first name, great people, friendly and proffessional-its the muppets in the office pulling the strings who are the problem.
Lets not forget also though that these are just fish-I rather see one granny basher get flogged than 500 people who kept 9 crays from 2 pots then got none in the rest.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Deleted
Posts: 6265
Date Joined: 26/04/14
yup yup yup and yup the
yup yup yup and yup
the very dissapointing thing is some fisheries officers would ask a child difficult questions a question most of us would struggle to understand.
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
When a government agency seeks greater power
I become very apprehensive when I read that government agencies seek the power to break the law under the guise of running a covert operation. The risks to the public at large are frightening, my first question is just what is the limit on law breaking, armed robbery, gun running as has been mentioned drug dealing, abductions, bashings, imprisonment without reason for an infinite time.
Just what are the limits that this group of people are going to be trusted to keep within, it wasn't so long ago that one of their senior officers was done for corruption by way of tipping off a friend of his who just happened to be on the wrong side of the law that fisheries where planning to raid his house.
The report tabled in parliament could be a worth while read.
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
The use of these powers are
The use of these powers are overseen by the Corruption and Crime Commission.
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=KnX1VPy-K4e8mgXy3YD4Bw&url=http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/publications/tabledpapers.nsf/displaypaper/3911209a33ccbecf5c94e01148257c2f0026868e/%24file/1209.pdf&ved=0CB8QFjAB&usg=AFQjCNE0A4xQVWPI_83EhhN9YULezQh_oA
Fish! HARD!
Rob H
Posts: 5797
Date Joined: 18/01/12
who have their own corruption
who have their own corruption and harrassment issues
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Mike17
Posts: 323
Date Joined: 30/06/13
What a Joke
That'd have to be some pretty special cray to swap a handgun for it.
Who are these muppets trying to fool?
I suggest if a fisheries officer is approached to swap a cray for a gun then he should call the police and then buy a lotto ticket.
"He sketched a scenario in which an undercover Fisheries officer may need to “swap a rock lobster for a handgun”, which would otherwise be unlawful."
Use The Force
sea-kem
Posts: 14981
Date Joined: 30/11/09
For a start they are not
For a start they are not cops and not trained in the same way. Damn look at the corruption when cops are allowed to infiltrate organised crime etc. It happned on a big scale in NSW and QLD. Very worrying trend, like some have said get the public on side maybe even with a few incentives and increase their work force and surveillance capacity. Ken hell most people are doing the right thing and they nail most of the bigger illegal operations anyway usually by public tip off.
Love the West!
tassy
Posts: 372
Date Joined: 30/06/14
These rules are not some
These rules are not some orwelian nightmare guys. Its a good thing. It means when they go after those pigs who destroy our livlyhood they can do anything they need to nail these scum.
100& agree with it. Alot of pro fishermen already report these dogs an it doesnt even dent their activities. So alowing the under cover guys more latatude to do anything it takes is great.
To be frank, an i know this wont make me many friends here. Recfish west or any otherr group has no buisness even comenting on laws that in end help us. Let alone trying to influence them.
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sea-kem
Posts: 14981
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Recfish west or any otherr
Recfish west or any otherr group has no buisness even comenting on laws that in end help us. Let alone trying to influence them.
You gotta be kidding right? I would expect them to do no less, these changes affect everyone has has anything to do with fishing, commercial and recreational. Remember the old saying, power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely. I don't like it, it goes to their heads imo.
Love the West!
Rob H
Posts: 5797
Date Joined: 18/01/12
oh Tassy, sorry mate but you
oh Tassy, sorry mate but you are off with the fairies here.
No wonder Jackie Lambie got voted in over there-"Im here to help you"
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
tassy
Posts: 372
Date Joined: 30/06/14
Trouble is mate, where is
Trouble is mate, where is this "big bad gov coming to get me"??
Seriously this law does not impact me in any way, i can still go up river or down an fishere my fav spots. I an still go out in trawler an catch my quotas.... Etcetcetc... I dont see a conspricy here to get some sort f "george orwells 1984"
They are hunting criminals who can an will utterly obliterate yours an my fishingtime. Be it comm or rec.
Ill put it this way posing a question to everyone here
1. How does this new set of laws effect you in any way.? Explain to us how, honestly...
Edit
Lol rob i am trying to e serious here :D
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sea-kem
Posts: 14981
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Because they'll have the
Because they'll have the opportunity to ream you with impunity if they suspect you of doing anything illegal.
Love the West!
tassy
Posts: 372
Date Joined: 30/06/14
So dont do anything ilegal
So dont do anything ilegal ?:) honestly if they come up an charge for doing something you havent done... They have to PROOVE it....so if you havent done anything you dont have to care.
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sea-kem
Posts: 14981
Date Joined: 30/11/09
That's all right brother,
That's all right brother, just sit there in your little cocoon, do nothing and let them do what they like.
Love the West!
barneyboy
Posts: 1392
Date Joined: 08/01/09
totally agree with you tassy!!
and it is not just for fishing it goes for the other stuff that isn't fishing!!
FEEEISH ONNN!!!
tassy
Posts: 372
Date Joined: 30/06/14
I think some of have soe
I think some of have some persacution issues to resolve. The big bad gov isnt out to get you lol.
When i was at sea fisheries would coe force us to take random fish out of wet tanks....in any conditions.. They were doing thier job...period. If one comes up to me at ascot jetty an demands something stupid ill tell him to piss off, or i will be resonable, depending on how he acts to me.
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randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
The only people who have to
The only people who have to worry are the ones doing the wrong thing. These sorts of operations cost money. something the government say they never have much of. If you think you are breaking the law to the extent that these agencies will spend big $$$ on catching you, then yes, you should be worried.
Fish! HARD!
tassy
Posts: 372
Date Joined: 30/06/14
Well said mate
Well said mate
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Jason P
Posts: 521
Date Joined: 16/02/13
Sounds a bit like 21 Jumpstreet.
DM306
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Have a read of what these
Have a read of what these officers have to go through to access these powers. they simply cannot walk up to Mr recreational fisherman on the wharf and start committing offences to entrap him....
Everyone have a bex and a lay down!
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/num_act/cipa201255o2012456/s10.html
Fish! HARD!
timboon
Posts: 2957
Date Joined: 14/11/10
Tassy mate put that peace
Tassy mate put that peace pipe down and ease up on the electric lettuce...
Rob & Sea Kem are onto it here bud,
Why do they need to ramp up the high end stuff when they arent even ever present at my local ramp?
Not once in ten years have i been checked!!
Sure on Ab season opening day or Marron season you might see them around all high n mighty but if they kept up appearances doing the day to day & perhaps speak with the guys doing the righty then that in itsselfmight lead to good info to protect our fisheries resources...
I'm with you on this one Rob, my experiences with the Jerks in South Oz was always Guilty until proven innocent...
Recfish & the likes should be consultated anytime laws are going to be introduced that affect those that pay the Fisheries wages...
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Because that is where you and
Because that is where you and I come in. We are all their eyes, looking out for the small fry taking a few too many crabs or undersize fish.
These powers are designed for one purpose. targeting serious and organised crime.
Fish! HARD!
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
agree timboon electric
agree timboon
electric lettuce ?? lol
these powers are not required at all imho , not by wa fisheries anyway
allowing/authorising gov staff to break the law to enforce it is a dangerous precedent imo
anything that has an impact on rec fishers is worthy of consultation and input from recfishwest, they are our peak body to set policy direction & decisions with the gov /fisheries
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Then sorry to say it hezzy,
Then sorry to say it hezzy, but you are naive to the reality of society.
Fish! HARD!
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
naïve ??lol now who,s off
naïve ??
lol
now who,s off with the fairies ...
explain the big fisheries busts these guys are missing out on here without these powers ??
even when we catch illegal boats in our waters we let em go , lol
much better to put dollars into customs and check more of these yachties , etc coming into the country imo
they dont need this to check your catch or tail clipped crays
either way it wont affect me , but its not a good precedent
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Do you research and
Do you research and understand where these powers are targeted at. they are not intended to be used against you or me. These are to be used against serious and organised criminals who make a living (a very good living) out of breaking the law. they make a living out of exploiting our fish stocks. The investigators tasked with impacting that activity need all the legislative backing they can get to combat that. Have you ever heard of noble cause corruption? it occurs when law enforcement don't have the legislated power to do certain things, so they break the law with the best of intentions... to get the job done. These powers give law enforcement the legal baking to do that in a controlled, monitored environment. As a society, I think we should welcome that rather than shun it.
Fish! HARD!
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
randall, where not cabbages
randall,
where not cabbages we do understand mate why they want it ,
as I stated it wont affect me ,
however you failed to link in some of these big busts /crimes here in wa you speak off that they need these powers for ? that cant be dealt with under the current laws ?
got any examples ?
much better to ramp up the feds and customs imo
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
Rob H
Posts: 5797
Date Joined: 18/01/12
"extra powers" and the
"extra powers" and the removal of checks and balances ALWAYS gets abused eventually.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Sorry, how can I link in "big
Sorry, how can I link in "big busts" to these powers? I can't. that doesn't mean we don't need the powers. you miss my point. our corruption / abuse of power risks wil be greatly reduced if we actually empower our law enforcers with adequate powers. let's go to the other end of the scale. let's remove all law enforcement powers. how will our investigators combat any crime in a lawful way? They wont be able to. They would need to break the law. so we give them the laws to do their jobs. and with that legislative backing come the responsibility to be accountable. give them the power and make them accountable.
and its unlikely you'll hear about the really successful busts....
someone once said (I think in reference to the arms / contra rebels scandal) that "you never hear about the intelligence successes, only the intelligence failures..."
Fish! HARD!
Rob H
Posts: 5797
Date Joined: 18/01/12
I would sincerely hope before
I would sincerely hope before attempting to implement this, all officers will be retrained with appropriate skills for this very different job description.
Otherwise this "experiment" will not last long, maybe just long enough to give inexperienced investigators a chance to try and get some quick results at the expence of someone who doesnt deserve it.
Side arms will be the next request or tasers.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
timboon
Posts: 2957
Date Joined: 14/11/10
Ah i used to love coming
Ah i used to love coming across the wankers bogged in the dunes back in SA...
You'd see em and pretend to be really startled and act like your doing a runner so they come tearing after you...
Once they've searched your surfboard and Wetty they head off pretty deflated only to no doubt get bogged on another beach or dune...
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
You are joking aren't you?
You are joking aren't you? these powers have been around since before 2012. they are not new. And they are trained. very well trained.
Fish! HARD!
Rob H
Posts: 5797
Date Joined: 18/01/12
me?
No Randell, Im not joking. Have they provided more training since 2012 for this then?
Crime and Corruption Commission?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-10/ccc-officers-investigated/5147630
Never expected the sort of abuse your dealing out here Randell, away from the footy threads which I rarely read.
Your sounding more like some of the short term members that come and go, having a meltdown from not getting your way
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
tassy
Posts: 372
Date Joined: 30/06/14
Lol im sorry but this shit
Lol im sorry but this shit is quite funny. Recfish west have no rights to influence laws in any way.
There are no conspiracys to trap you.
If you do something wrong, you deserve to be caught.
These laws are a great thing an only befifet everyone of us.
Rob mate, if you some research these large scale operations can be very dangerous. If they need weapons, then they should be supplied what theyever they need.
Remember mate, these pigs have no rights,cops or fisheries whatever need to do anything they can to stop them.
Five bream an counting
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Rob H
Posts: 5797
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Recfishwest do (or should
Recfishwest do (or should have) Tassy, like it or not.
Might as well live in Zimbabwe if a government department can just make it up as they go.
Next Fisheries will be wanting to handle terrorists
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
little johnny
Posts: 5359
Date Joined: 04/12/11
well at least
i know if someone wants to swap a cray for rifle ,there undercover..l.o.l
.at least there trying i suppose,
tassy
Posts: 372
Date Joined: 30/06/14
Sorry i tend to agree hessy,
Sorry i tend to agree hessy, you dont seem to understand what this is aimed at.
Ilegal fishing, taking an selling large volumess of fish is a massive problem.the under cover guys dont give a flyig munkeynut if you catch an undersize cray. They are after guys making million dollar hawls etc.
In nz theft of lobster an abs is destroying the indy.these operations are oftem armed an not afraid to use them.
Take tuna, one good tua in japan can sell for 20-50 grand. That alone makes it worthwhile to break law for them.
I am sorry mate but the big wide world can be a really nasty place, these laws are needed.
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hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
tassy , where here in wa ,
tassy , where here in wa , not nz or anywhere else
wheres the facts to support all this high level illegal gang crime syndicate fishing in wa you and randell speak of ?
even the committee who reviewed it said nada evidence mate
hezzy
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evil flourishes when good men do nothing
Rob H
Posts: 5797
Date Joined: 18/01/12
haha-when you find that "one
haha-when you find that "one good tuna for $20k-$50K" let me know
The only crims doing that are the japs themselves and its not WA Fisheries that checks them its AMSA.
Those prices-only the japs get that and they pay it to themselves to get the publicity.
Ive been there Tassy, maybe exported 200-300 tonnes of bigeye/SBT alone and maybe $10K would be the best.
Then take out 17% of the gross for the bloke who picks it up at the airport and takes it to the market, then $6.50 a kg for freight.
To top it all off, they cut your payment for "damage to the fish" (after they have taken their non refundable 17%
) when they scoop them up with a front end loader over there
Any local fish poacher who tried to get the "$20-$50K" would wind up handing himself bleeding from the back passage because the Japs are way better crooks in that business!
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
tassy
Posts: 372
Date Joined: 30/06/14
Na Rob the prices are real
Na Rob the prices are real mate, seriously. In Tasmania the Southern Fin (big ones) go for massive prices,a n I dare say in WA since your fish stocks are incredibly larger than Tasmania. But yer, 90% of Tuna in Tasmania caught goes to Japan, an sad to say China is becoming a rising market. That is in fact threatening to ruin the Wild Tuna stocks round world. (there is plenty of documented text to rexearch on that).... But I am getting off point, I doubt any of us here know if any "real" crime, they dont advertise such things until they are done, or even if then...
The fisheries dont just give themselves these powers, an they dont do it lightly. So its obvious they "need" them or els this would not even be a subject.
As for the Japanese, well, theres nothing you can tell me on that one :(. Rememebr the Japanese fleets used to work out of Hobart, an we ran into them more times than I care to count. Not to mention got arrested for em a few times after bar fights with them for killing our stocks an cutting lines. You know well as I do, the margins on fishing cna be hard when your losing gear that costs you upwards fo 20 grand. Because some scumbag cuts lines in 1000 feet of water...Anyways, the tuna industry is soemthing of a rare beast to put it mildly, the profets are there but for thieves.... I dont know. To make the "million dollar" hawls they need alot of infrastuctre as you know.. SO maybe they dont. I really dont know.
Have a look at this mate, it outlines the import of Tuna especially to JP
http://kickasstorrents.la/view/nhk-tsukiji-worlds-largest-fish-market-the-incredible-hands-x264-t9794617.html
You would be shocked at prices paid.
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timboon
Posts: 2957
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Tassy do you think the gen
Tassy do you think the gen public are committing these offences you mention above?
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
FFS! These powers are not
FFS! These powers are not aimed towards the general public. get that through your fucking thick fucking skulls!
Fish! HARD!
tassy
Posts: 372
Date Joined: 30/06/14
There is a very well known
There is a very well known one in nsw i think it is who for ten years hs been taking massive numbers of ab. Hes een to jail a dozen times an doesnt care.. Just keeps going back to it. But by an large no, i dont think joe public. Most of it is organised crime of some sort.
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timboon
Posts: 2957
Date Joined: 14/11/10
Sorry Tassy...
Sorry Tassy...
dumper
Posts: 1027
Date Joined: 03/04/08
I've got a few Crays in the
I've got a few Crays in the freezer that I'm willing to swap for the same sawn off as used by mad max
timboon
Posts: 2957
Date Joined: 14/11/10
Randall exscuse me for being
Randall exscuse me for being so thick, can you please explain to me and my thick mates on here who are these beings that are doing such things then if its not the general public like you so rightly pointed out.
Have the bikies hung up the patches sold the bikes and bought a Boston Whaler each and now they off Sambo fishing?
I dont get it...
Apart from the Patagonian Tooth fish story recently i'd like to know other stories of organised crime/illegal fishing of such a scale we need SWAT TEAM NAVY SEAL FISH PIGS
Fire away with your examples coz i'm a real thick skull person
Bout time
Posts: 47
Date Joined: 05/07/12
Mabe while at it they could
Mabe while at it they could teach them how to come alongside your boat without doing damage to your boat or rods ?
timboon
Posts: 2957
Date Joined: 14/11/10
Careful dumper you'll have
Careful dumper you'll have Robo Fish Pig Cop busting down your doors shortly...
Randall are you one of them?
Tassi there have always been sindicates poaching abs, nothing new...
Instead of the Fisheries wanting to act all 007 perhaps the penalties need looking for repeat offenders...
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
lol you know randall read
lol
you know randall read the quote below even the people on the review committee where not convinced ,
seems the bikes are still getting the skippers ticket for their boston whaler tim lol
hezzy
[Police Commissioner Karl O’Callaghan, the Opposition, the parliamentary committee overseeing the Corruption and Crime Commission and a separate review committee that scrutinised the laws in 2012 all questioned why Fisheries needed the powers.
The department’s serious offences unit was already empowered to do covert surveillance operations, of which there were seven between 2007 and 2011. Four yielded charges.
But in a hearing before the committee in December 2011, SOU officer in charge Carl Grossetti argued Fisheries needed the powers, especially assumed identities, because organised crime gangs were diversifying into illegal fishing.
He sketched a scenario in which an undercover Fisheries officer may need to “swap a rock lobster for a handgun”, which would otherwise be unlawful.
The review committee found the department had “not provided persuasive evidence of organised crime in the industry” and noted no other jurisdiction had given its fisheries department access to the powers.]
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
little johnny
Posts: 5359
Date Joined: 04/12/11
serious now
i wouldnt think it was not happenning in metro waters unsure? next weeks news headlines in papers . could be someone having to many fish smokers .with intent to sell smoked fish".only joke randall" not serious.prob big market on abalone local(yuck horrible things) lets see where it goes.good laugh all the same
,have a good night guys
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
hezzy..."evil flourishes
hezzy...
"evil flourishes when good men do nothing"....
you said it first....
Fish! HARD!
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
agree with you
what is with abalone that makes them so expensive the only 1s I have ever have tasted like boot leather
tassy
Posts: 372
Date Joined: 30/06/14
Gotta know how to cool abs
Gotta know how to cook abs proppa :). Ive never Been able to do it myself
Five bream an counting
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tassy
Posts: 372
Date Joined: 30/06/14
I think pl just wanna
I think pl just wanna believe in conspiracys and gov big brother. It wouldnt matter what proof we give a few here like to think they know more than guys who work the industry etc. i am over it now lol. If you wanna believe the fisheries are controling ya lives an being all rambo, knock yaself out. Ill be out fishing an enjoying myself hoping some group of aggots loses their entire lives homess money because they were thieving.
Good on fisheries for finally growing a backbone.
Five bream an counting
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randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
These are good men doing
These are good men doing something, so evil doesn't flourish....
Fish! HARD!
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
ostriches / heads / sand....
ostriches / heads / sand....
Fish! HARD!
tassy
Posts: 372
Date Joined: 30/06/14
Seen this before randel,
Seen this before randel, doesnt matter what you say some ppl love to complain, insult an believe in conspiracys.
I had to ring fisheries today bout those animals up at ascot killing fish. Guy on phone couldnt be more helpful or nice if he tried.
Totally profecinal.
Five bream an counting
One tree
One fooone hand
One jetty.
timboon
Posts: 2957
Date Joined: 14/11/10
Your not selling it
Your not selling it Randall....
I asked you for examples!!
Like I think Rob said, the ones they catch here now they let em go...
I think sure we need more border protection ( fishing not paranoid vote grabbing assylum seeker crap like is going on nowadays )...
Also in places like marine parks where the responsible often quota'd aussie bloke making a living is no longer allowed well these places need to be policed more also...
I'm not saying it doesnt happen to some extent on our own shores but i think a far bigger threat to our fish stocks are from overseas...
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
I have read the legislation
Thanks to those who posted up reports etc on the overseeing bodies associated with the granting of these powers.
I still have reservations, I agree the governing body that is tasked to oversee this action by fisheries has a pretty good brief to keep a close watch on things, however it is in the eating of the cake that governs how good the cake is, not the recipe.
It is the quality of the training given to the officers that makes the use of these powers valuable, and so far this has not been demonstrated by fisheries.
In the example given "swapping a cray for a gun" I would be of the view that the WA Police would be the authority to handle such events (time permitting) the firearms and guns act is part of their responsibility.
It also must be noted that no other state has seen fit to grant such powers to their relevant fisheries, also the commissioner of police WA made his views know that he was not in favour of the granting of such powers.
A committee which studied the question of granting such powers to fisheries came to the decision that fisheries had not put up a sound case for the granting of the powers sought.
Yet one person (that's a brave decision minister) choose to over ride the committees recommendations and pooh hoo their work and reasoning and use a "captains call" presumable because she liked the argument " a cray for a hand gun."
We have just seen what using a "captains call" can produce.
I'll close with the following thought, how long before we see the polite and helpful fisheries officer boarding your boat whilst pointing a pump action shotgun at you and they are tooled up like they are going to Okinawa in 1945.
Can't happen, I hope and prey not.
timboon
Posts: 2957
Date Joined: 14/11/10
Well put Megladon
Well put Megladon
sea-kem
Posts: 14981
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Like Mega said situations
Like Mega said situations requiring that kind of operation are best handled by the police who have the better training , capabillities and resources. No need to instill uneeded powers to an organisation that has more authorization to search than the police. And Tassy Recfish west are our lobby group, I would expect them to influence and try to change laws that affect our past time or maybe Mugabe got it right???? Ask a farmer from there.
Love the West!
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
randell, nice troll off m
randell, nice troll off m siggy mate lol are you a fisheries boy or in the police etc ??
fact is , the fisheries have powers now , so there not exactly doing nothing ,
police are honorary fisheries officers, much better to use these guys where needed or customs and the feds
all of the above wa has , so its not like where naked and unprotected mr ostrich
we still haven't seen any evidence of large scale interstate or international poaching gangs etc that you and tassy speak of ??why not ??cant you find any ??
tassy ,collecting & cooking abs is easy , done properly they are soft as butter and taste great , surprised you haven't mastered it mate
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
tassy
Posts: 372
Date Joined: 30/06/14
na Ive never been good at
na Ive never been good at cookies AB's. Even when I worked on AB boats I was not "allowed" to cook em lol... Crays, yer, most other shellfish no worries. But AB's I brick em...
I have not looked for "evidence" mate If people want evidence of crime, your more n welcome to go look for it :). I have better things to dow ith my time. I ran with petty crims back in the day, when I was young an stupid, it isnt a world I enjoy so I dont go looking for it.
This is the sort of thign they deal with now, an you can see reading this, jsut how pathetic the conciquences are.
Local courts have continued their tough stance on abalone theft by handing out jail time and hefty fines in two recent cases on the NSW South Coast, Department of Primary Industries (DPI), Acting Director of Fisheries Compliance, Tony Andrews said today.
Mr Andrews said the largest of penalties was handed down by Narooma Local Court to two men after they were caught stealing abalone and lobsters by fisheries officers north of Bermagui in October 2013.
"The two men aged 29 and 22 both from Bermagui, were observed by fisheries officers diving in waters and then shuck a large quantity of abalone," Mr Andrews said.
"Fisheries officers intercepted the men and located a bag hidden along the beach access track containing 69 shucked abalone and one prohibited size Eastern rock lobster. In addition, a number of freshly shucked prohibited size abalone shells were found.
"Both men pleaded guilty before Narooma Local Court to a range of offences including joint possession of prohibited size Eastern rock lobster, joint possession of prohibited size abalone, shuck abalone adjacent to waters and failure to pay the recreational fishing fee.
"The 29 year old man faced an additional offence of providing false information and breaching a current five year prohibition order in place from previous convictions which prevents him from taking or being in the possession of more than two abalone.
"The 29 year old man was sentenced to a total of 20 months imprisonment and ordered to pay $2,500 in fines, while the 22 year old man was sentenced to a two year good behaviour bond and ordered to pay $8,200 in fines."
Mr Andrews said in another matter two illegal abalone fishers have been fined a total of $20,000 after a significant quantity of abalone was seized by DPI fisheries officers in February this year.
"Following a period of surveillance fisheries officers intercepted two Sydney men, aged 50 and 51, heading home after a weekend at Kioloa," Mr Andrews said.
"The men were found to be in possession of 379 abalone, of which 372 were prohibited size.
"Both men failed to attend Milton Local Court where they each faced two aggravated charges, one for the possession of more than the maximum quantity of fish and the second for the possession of prohibited sized fish.
"They were both convicted and each received a fine of $10,000, demonstrating that abalone thieves will face heavy penalties when they are caught."
Mr Andrews said fisheries officers in the south of the state will continue to target abalone theft.
"Officers will conduct both overt and covert operations, utilising the latest technology to detect and apprehend abalone thieves," Mr Andrews said.
"Persons selling illegal abalone should also beware, because fisheries officers conduct targeted inspections on persons or businesses involved in the illegal sale of abalone.
"Bag and size limits for abalone are in place for a reason, to protect the precious abalone resource in NSW."
Anyone who suspects illegal fishing is urged to contact the Fishers Watch phone line on 1800 043 536 or online through the DPI website.
Abalone – key facts
Media contact: Alyssa Fitzgerald 6391 3686 or 0459 141 561
To my way of thinking. Those men need to lsoe their homes, bank accounts, 5 years Jail Yatala for starters without parole. garnished wagers for 5 years.... etc etc, make it really hurt when these scumbags do this stuff. Their lives should be ruined not jsut slap on rist.
Five bream an counting
One tree
One fooone hand
One jetty.
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
, so given what you posted ,
, so given what you posted ,
NSW fisheries who you have cited in the above item dont have the powers the WA fishereies dept officers, do , but in NSW they have been able to target and apprehend rec fishers , using the laws they have now and charge them , ? correct ?
NSW fisheries have targetted rec fishers, breaking the law , good news , but the above item tassy /randell is the guys you say this law is not aimed at ?
wheres the organised gangs /crime ? those blokes are not the big crime gangs by the looks of that ,
hey tassy , how would you punish a one coward punch offender or a drink driver then ?if you want to ruin the life over afisheries offence ?
you might be better off as a magistrate tassy lol
these below are all ones that have been conducted in WA under the old laws it seems with success no ??
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July 24, 2009 4:55PM to FacebookAdd to KwoffAdd to MyspaceAdd to NewsvineWhat are these?
A WA man who appeared in court today accused of dealing 300kg of abalone on the black market faces four years in jail and a hefty fine if convicted.
Kevin Huynh, 40, was not required to plead when he appeared in the Perth Magistrates Court.
He also faces a charge of receiving about 3000kg of stolen greenlip abalone, valued at $390,000.
The case was uncovered after a seven-month surveillance operation by WA police and the Department of Fisheries.
Under fisheries laws, the man is also alleged to have contravened the state's abalone management plan in dealing with more than 80kg of abalone in June and July last year and attempting to deal in a further 250kg.
All charges were adjourned until September 11 in the Perth Magistrates Court.\
Magistrate Wayne Tarr granted Mr Huynh bail.
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$15,000 fine for illegal WA abalone catch
Date April 9, 2013
Read later
A West Australian man caught with hundreds of seafood delicacies in his backpack has been slugged with fines and costs of more than $15,000.
Van Thanh Le, 55, from the northern Perth suburb of Darch, has been convicted of taking abalone out of season, exceeding the possession limit and possessing 60 undersize abalone.
He was the second target of Operation Ratchet, a Department of Fisheries sting on people illegally taking or distributing the shellfish in the metropolitan area.
Le was handed fines, penalties and court costs totalling $15,341 for the three offences.
His 46-year-old accomplice Duy Cam Dao, of the northern suburb of Girrawheen, was prosecuted last month after Fisheries and Marine officers spotted them both at Ocean Reef late last year.
The officers found 299 abalone in Le's backpack, while Dao's backpack contained 326 abalone.
AAP
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hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
tassy
Posts: 372
Date Joined: 30/06/14
that is a joke, an offencive
that is a joke, an offencive to be honest. he got off near as scott free concidering the profet to be made. As for you constantly askign for evidence of organised crime, you know full well none can shjow that because none here knows of it. Police do not advertise what they doing, as you well know. By sound of it hessy you dont like idea of people being punished for what they do. If you are going to do a crime, you SHOULD be hammered for it, making your life a missery, that is/should be the risk to breaking law.
This piss ant slap on rist is a joke, its the central reason they keep doing it.
Five bream an counting
One tree
One fooone hand
One jetty.
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
jezz tassy , you assume way
jeez tassy , you assume way too much mate
your compass is way out of wack on what your reading off here
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
tassy
Posts: 372
Date Joined: 30/06/14
lol hardly, you posted what
lol hardly, you posted what those idiots her ein WA got done for.... As I stated, the penalty is a joke.... an it is...
Five bream an counting
One tree
One fooone hand
One jetty.
sea-kem
Posts: 14981
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Gotta wonder about those
Gotta wonder about those guys surnames, just pointing out a fact.
Love the West!
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
[lol hardly, you posted what
[lol hardly, you posted what those idiots her ein WA got done for.... As I stated, the penalty is a joke.... an it is... ]
tassy ,
mate seriously ,
1 the guys got caught using covert ops , that shows the current laws /powers are being used effectivly to me , cant see the need for more
2 the penaltys given for the offences can be varying depending on the magistrate / judges in the law courts ,not what power the officers in the field have ,
3 the severity of the penalty ?? thats a totally seperate issue to giving more powers to fisheries ,thats not what this is about tassy
giving the officers more power DOES NOT automatically increase the penaltys bloke
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
uncle
Posts: 9474
Date Joined: 10/02/07
I'm confused still don't see why they need special powers
Remember these enforcement officers are like all society there's about 5percent that would be bent
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
sea-kem
Posts: 14981
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Probably more when they get
Probably more when they get powers like that Unc. I'm all for law and order etc, but there's a line to be drawn on what they can and can't do. I'm not a civil liberalratarian but I believe we all need to be protected with some rights.
Love the West!
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
i respect all of you for
i respect all of you for your passion (I dont need to agree with you) but I am just absolutely stunned that you guys didn't kick up such a stink back in about 2010 - 2011 when these powers were introduced.
perhaps this thread should be renamed?
"Bugger, Fisheries have all these extensive powers for years now and we've all missed the boat!"
and if these powers are going to lead to graft and corruption by those exercising them, where is the evidence of that? Or we could let the police investigate serious fishing offences... oh no, their detectives are busy wacking trackers on their work mate's girlfriend's car to see if she is playing around, while they go on a pig shooting holiday....
and that's my last comment on this matter. next time I'll keep my opinion to myself :)
Fish! HARD!
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
I should remove the plural
I should remove the plural off detectives. make that detective...
Fish! HARD!
timboon
Posts: 2957
Date Joined: 14/11/10
Your right perhaps I/WE
Your right perhaps I/WE should have had more to say on the matter but I only speak up when i'm made aware of something and really thats the beauty of a great site like this right.
Thanks for your contribution Randall,
Very enlightening...
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Fish! HARD!
Rob H
Posts: 5797
Date Joined: 18/01/12
busted
got to be the worst comment ever to post "This is my last comment on the matter"
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Fish! HARD!
timboon
Posts: 2957
Date Joined: 14/11/10
This is definately going to
This is definately going to be one of my last posts on the subject...
Tassy....
Tell us about these crime spree's you used to go on back in your youth...
Did you steal old Bessies bloomers from her clothes line?
Dirty little bastard, i bet you gave em a good ol sniff to.