flares it has been confirmed

just had a bit of news from a reliable source that as from july 1 2013 DoT are introducing a new policy on flares,if you are found to be in possesion of flares that are out of date you will be liable to a fine of 250 bucks for having life saving gear that is out of date. I have expressed my view on this mad bad policy before on this web site and look forward to my first encounter with DoT on this issue It will be interesting to see on what basis they have brought in this change (it will interest the RAN as well)

It's chicken shit at it's best by people who have not the remotest idea what they are on about,nor the qualifications to make such decissions.


hlokk's picture

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Surely it would be "If the

Sun, 2012-07-29 23:41

Surely it would be "If the only flares you have are out of date". E.g. two sets, one in date and the other not, you would still be fine, or wont they even let you keep expired flares in addition to in date ones?

 

Perhaps the people who changed the policy do have an idea of what they're on about, but from a legal point of view rather than a practical usage view? I.e. flare says expired, therefore expired, end of story. I guess perhaps they want to stop any ambiguity over what constitutes good condition (but expired) flares? However, for recreational boaters, its not like the flares instantly go bad... A balance needs to be struck between practically and pragmatism. So is there anything to suggest the current rules arent acceptable? How many boaties have had expired flares not work in an emergency situation?

Buz's picture

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Guess if this is to be the

Sun, 2012-07-29 23:52

Guess if this is to be the norm there may become a niche for a company to sell flares that have a longer 'expired' date. E.g at the moment you dont care because as long as they are in good condition they should pass inspection. In the future you will probably end up buying which ever set is going to last you the longest.

Or who knows there might be a when your old set expires drop them off at a designated place and get some credit $ towards your new set??? Hmmmm then again this is W.A so not holding my breath.

hlokk's picture

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Now now Buz, that last idea

Mon, 2012-07-30 00:11

Now now Buz, that last idea is sensible. We cant have that, particularly when a government is involved.......  (that would be funny if it werent so sad :s).

 

 

Would also be interesting if you could get them checked. I suspect some of the reason for shorter expirys is that the environment they're stored in can affect their life. E.g. hot and humid vs cool and dry. They need to cover their ass for most situations, so would be interesting if for a couple of bucks they could be inspected, and you get a stickered extension on them?  Again, see above comment though :(

leesfishin's picture

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was checked last week at

Mon, 2012-07-30 06:11

was checked last week at shark bay, was told new reg was in from 1july 2012 and received a warning for my flares being out of date.

have until 1 jan before it is compulsary

cheers lee

snappermiles's picture

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another way the useless government is screwing us over

Mon, 2012-07-30 06:26

all this will do is have more flare sightings from land as when there out of date what are you going to do with them?? throw them in the bin and have a possible accident waiting to happen?? just another way of them making money

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Come in spinners

Mon, 2012-07-30 07:36

 This is another money spinner for our local economy. Come on fellers it has to be good for us. There has been soo many problems with the old regulation, you know.... The one that says flares need to be in good condition. Heck there is no way my ten year old flares would ever work, is there.... $$$.        :)

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This stuff just makes my

Mon, 2012-07-30 08:39

This stuff just makes my blood boil! If such changes are going to happen why hasn't everyone with a skippers ticket been informed prior to changes in rules. Everyone with a skippers ticket is sent a crappy news letter thats full of useless information and important stuff like this is left out.

crasny1's picture

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I have 3 sets off flares

Mon, 2012-07-30 08:50

And 2 are out off date. In an emergency I will use the older ones first. That is if I am not panicking and shooting whichever packet I get my hands on!!! If they dont work or are missed. then you have a backup fresher packet.

Now what Hlokk says has me thinking aswell. Even though I have a new set in date onboard, could I be fined fot having older sets, because that just ken stinks.

I would like to fight this battle in court if it ever eventuate. The more the merryer.

 

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In Qld, it is illegal to keep

Mon, 2012-07-30 08:56

In Qld, it is illegal to keep old flares as they are considered "explosives"

 

 

Explosives in Queensland are regulated under the Explosives Act 1999 and Explosives Regulation 2003 which is administered by the Explosives Inspectorate within the Safety and Health Division of Mines and Energy.


 

All explosives require authorisation by the Chief Inspector of Explosives having regard to specifications such as the design, composition and formulation, intended use and operation, classification and shelf life (or expiry date), amongst other things. Section 11 of the Explosives Act 1999 makes it an offence for any person to manufacture, possess, sell, store, transport or use an unauthorised or prohibited explosive and imposes a maximum penalty of $40,000 or 6 months imprisonment.


 

Distress signals have been granted a generic authorisation in Queensland that covers a number of pyrotechnics including marine flares. This authorisation is specific to the manufacturers stipulated shelf life. This means that any distress signals which are past their expiry date are technically outside the conditions of their authorisation and should not be used further. There is good reason why these products are given a shelf life by the manufacturer. The nominated life span provides a high level of confidence that the distress signal will function safely to a specified performance criteria.


 

To a varying degree all explosives will deteriorate over time and may well become unstable, possibly hazardous and no longer perform to the manufacturer’s original specification. In the case of distress signals, this counteracts the original purpose or intent of the product in that it may not safely function and perform as intended.



It is acknowledged that there will be circumstances where there is a genuine need to handle distress signals that are outside of their shelf life, such as transporting them for disposal.



However the practice of keeping expired distress signals in a vessel for back-up use in emergency situations is a dangerous practice with the potential to do more harm than good. The manufacturer no longer warrants the safe operation of expired distress signals and they should be disposed of correctly. If a person is of the belief that their vessel required a back-up set of flares, then they should ensure that these are within the manufacturers shelf life. The cost to replace a set of flares in comparison to the cost of the vessel, equipment and the safety on those on board is negligible.


 

carnarvonite's picture

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Submission

Mon, 2012-07-30 09:26

The written submission I put in was that if a set was more than 2 years out of date  then you had to obtain a new set, seems like our DoT manager didn't  disuade the others on the committee.

If the Qid regs come in it we will look forward to more false alarm flare sightings because if you cannot get rid of them properly then its off to the dump and a chance of them falling in the wrong hands.

Going back about 2 years some one ratted the old trawlers laid up here and stole all the flare packs and until a couple of months back we had flare sightings in and around town that all required a call out of our crew to check on whether they were an emergency or not. I know what I would have done with a flare if we caught them.

hlokk's picture

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I'd feel sorry for that damn

Mon, 2012-07-30 10:02

I'd feel sorry for that damn flare knowing exactly what would happen to it!   The guy deserves the full extent of the law coming to him though! I think when they had that guy putting out fake radio calls that he was charged. I assume its an offense to set off a flare when its not an emergency.

If you are required to immediately dispose of expired (but otherwise completely fine!) flares, then what are the options for this? At the moment, I know some sea rescue groups take expired flares, and then can later use them in training. However, if its "illegal" to hold them, then sea rescue groups may not be allowed to used expired flares for demonstration flares, because obviously they're extremely dangerous causing hundreds of deaths a year *rolls eyes*.

Walfootrot's picture

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This was updated on Firday 27

Mon, 2012-07-30 12:45

This was updated on Firday 27 July

http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/19165.asp#Expiry_dates

Best be getting some new flares if your are out of date.

You can hand the old ones in at Freo. think the cops will take them off your hands too

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carnarvonite's picture

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Date Joined: 24/07/07

Old flares

Mon, 2012-07-30 16:02

Dept of Transport has the facilities to handle and collect out of date flares, just contact them and they will give you the details on where to drop them off. I'm sure your local sea rescue groups will take them if you drop them off at one of the bases as well, I know we do here in Carnarvon.

 

Now that its coming in  no doubt there will be many more flare demonstrations done by the sea rescue groups so if you see an advert in your local paper come along and learn how to set them off safely and see what they look like once in action. That way we can all recognise what to look for and not just the few of us who deal with them all the time.

Iceman's picture

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Meeting

Mon, 2012-07-30 18:25

I will be attending a Search and Rescue Council meeting on Wednesday. DOT will be there so will try to clarification on whether you can have out of date flares onboard provided you in date flares as well.

As for dropping off the rescue groups, we were advised we cannot use out of date flares for demos. Will clarify this as well. many time we have found older flares (if looked after) work better than new flares.

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flares a question

Tue, 2012-07-31 16:14

for my money any flare is better than no flare,i'll keep my out of date flares onboard and if i need to attract the attention of some one because of an emergency i'll light up the sky with everything i've got.the question to be put to DoT is

if old flares are kept and can be redily identified as out of date what is the problem of keeping them.

Most sea rescue groups used to hold flare demo nights with out of date flares what was the problem with this.

Dizzy's picture

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Let's have an annual

Tue, 2012-07-31 13:12

Let's have an annual "Fishwrecked Expired Flare Party" on DOT's doorstep.

 

.... It'd be the only time that a bright spark goes anwhere near that building each year  !

snappermiles's picture

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gold dizzy gold

Tue, 2012-07-31 07:32

gold dizzy gold

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Given I need to dispose of my

Tue, 2012-07-31 11:50

Given I need to dispose of my out of date flares where can I safley set off/test/dispose of them??  Would be nice to actuall see what I'm in for if (touch wood) I need to use them.

Perfish's picture

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Agree

Tue, 2012-07-31 18:39

 I've seen flares set off before but it'd be usefull for my regular crew and gillie to see the same so they 1) know what to expect when setting one off and 2) how to use them if needed and I'm unable to.

I recon a controlled 'open day' run by DOT in conjunction with the sea rescue organizations would be a winner

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Pisser Dizzy, nice one

Tue, 2012-07-31 14:13

Pisser Dizzy, nice one