Gar skip bait

Hope the bill fish experts can give me some advice. I am keen to tick a saily off the bucket list in Exy this May. Can you guys give me some pointers on the preferred skip bait set up for Exy. Was thinking a circle to a wax thread tied slightly weighted gar but there seems to be a lot of different methods. Keen to hear what works up there.


Brucesta's picture

Posts: 1721

Date Joined: 29/05/09

 The easiest to rig would be

Mon, 2016-02-22 19:36

 The easiest to rig would be a skipping bait followed by the swimming version. The version I use ties off in a small slit in the now trimmed bill, I then use the 10cm tag ends to tie off a loop, slip over a skirt and loop it over the circle hook, lasts all day. I use this either as a switch bait or on the riggers with a drop back and loose drag,even free spool on the ratchet.

____________________________________________________________________________

Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target

ChrisG's picture

Posts: 558

Date Joined: 30/12/11

 +1 on that advice

Mon, 2016-02-22 19:57

 +1 on that advice

ChrisG's picture

Posts: 558

Date Joined: 30/12/11

 Not an expert by a looooong

Mon, 2016-02-22 20:33

 Not an expert by a looooong way mate but think I nailed it last year and did real well (with a lot of advice from awesome people on FW prior).

Skipping gars and swimming gars are rigged a little diff mate (at least my version of).

pretty easy both ways thou - main diff i think, is 'swimming' is weighted under chin and "swim" right way up. I also 'ballyhoo' rig it with wire thru it's body with a single hook hanging out the back;

 

skip baits are just as Bruesta says, he's put it better than i could describe it

ranmar850's picture

Posts: 2702

Date Joined: 12/08/12

I try to keep it simple for skips

Mon, 2016-02-22 21:26

 8/0 0r 9/0 circle in through the mouth and out the top of the gars'  head. Lay the shank of the hook along the beak, bind it on with a rubber band. Snap the beak off short. Done.

ranmar850's picture

Posts: 2702

Date Joined: 12/08/12

Brucesta-

Tue, 2016-02-23 10:26

 How do you mange an outrigger so that the sail can take the bait wil almost nil resistance? We run ours straight off the rod tip, with just enough drag to hold it and the ratchet on. You need to be quick and drop back free spool, then  take ratchet off when things are under control and the fish turns away with the bait. So your are running your line through a  spring clip, or a rubber band around the line and the band into a clip? So when a fish comes up behind the bait, you have to yank the line free from the rod end so you can free-spool?  My main aim is to fish with the simplest possible rig that will produce results--on a 5.65 metre cuddy cab you are normally running three people, so two baits, one long skirt in the centre and a single teaser is enough to manage when you raise a pod. We will also have a threadline outfit ready rigged with a gar to toss at any that have missed out on the original feed.

Interested in your thoughts on this.

Posts: 4561

Date Joined: 01/02/10

Rubber band into a clip. The

Tue, 2016-02-23 10:44

Rubber band into a clip. The band breaks under the strike and drops back.
When running baits off the rod tip I use the dubro drop back clips and reel in freespool. Just have to be on the ball with watching the gear.
In comps the rod wont go in the holder. Hang onto it in freespool with finger on it for immediate drop back.

____________________________________________________________________________

Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?

Brucesta's picture

Posts: 1721

Date Joined: 29/05/09

What dodgy said, With the

Tue, 2016-02-23 15:43

What dodgy said, 

With the riggers i'll take away my drop back lines, use the lightest elastic band i can find, i have found some of the ones used in girls hair (i have young daughters) break at below 2kg where as small elastic bands are more around the 4kg mark, i'm yet to try loom bands they may work ok too. Once they ping it off there is maybe 5 or so metres of slack line to take up, you can set a bigger drop back if you wish and then very light drag or freespool. the elastic bands just clip into the rigger clips at their lightest setting as well and all the tension of the bait is on the elastic band not the reel's spool.

If you don't have outriggers then two lines with a switchbait ready would be fine. A trick i have seen if you want a quick way to set a line with a threadline reel is to put a cable tie on the upper handle towards the reel, leave about a 3cm tag and open the bail arm and loop it under the cable tie to hold the line, then just get you deckies to watch it, otherwise like Dodgy said, have them hold them on each side ready to drop back.

 

____________________________________________________________________________

Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target

Gav475's picture

Posts: 393

Date Joined: 16/11/11

switch baiting

Wed, 2016-02-24 08:09

 I dont have outriggers so was planning a skirt on long and short corner and a weighted swimming gar at shotgun. From what you lads are telling me I should only use enough drag pressure to hold the lure/gar in place and free spool back if a strike happens or a fish is sighted in the spread. Does the __   count to 10 then set after a take still apply? Excuse my ignorance lads but just trying to put a realistic plan together. I should mention the boat is a standard 550 genises and its just me and the misus who loves the boat but is not much help.

ranmar850's picture

Posts: 2702

Date Joined: 12/08/12

Sounds like your rig is like mine

Wed, 2016-02-24 08:44

 I'm only in a 5.65 m Swiftcraft Dominator cuddy cab. And sometimes it only my wife and myself, though a third one is very useful. My personal experience on swimming gar is that they tend to attract more mackerel than anything, which may sound like a good problem to have  but it is a PITA as they are work to rig and to have one snipped off is annoying, and they are very good at taking them off behind the hook, even if you have the rear hook rigged out the anus.  Skip baits, if you are limited by size of boat, no outriggers, would be the way to go, IMO. I run skip baits on each corner straight off the rod tip , and a long skirt out the centre position, with the teaser just off-centre, beside the outboard.  I rig the skips as described above, just a circle hook in through the mouth and out through the top of the head.  Use a rubber band to bind the hook parallel to the beak, then snap off excess.I use Owner 9/0's (SSD's?) NOT the Mutu, they are very heavy.  i'm going to try Mustad Demon Light 8/0's this year on the smaller gar, they have been doing very well for me on heavy livebaiting gear. I don't use skirts any more, personal choice, I think they can interfere with a hook up. 

There is a saying--" the price of billfish is eternal vigilance"  This requires a lot more application than just listening for the ratchet when you are trolling for mackerel. You need to watch the wake the whole time, looking for that telltale shape, or a bill or dorsal or tail coming out the water behind the baits/ teaser. The long centre skirt is obviously a strike thing, but sometimes they won't hook up, just keep bashing the lure, so you need to reel it in really quickly to bring them into the baits, then knock it out of gear and feed the baits back. Same if they come up and smack the bait, neutral and feed back. Let them take the bait, and turn away to swim off, just tighten up a few esconds after they have turned away, hookup on circles is very good. DON'T STRIKE HARD! You'll just pul it out of their mouth.

Posts: 1998

Date Joined: 16/05/09

Soft drag on baits and don't

Wed, 2016-02-24 09:11

Soft drag on baits and don't strike with circle hooks let the rod load up with the weight of the sail, the hook will set itself, they are designed to do that and as previously said watch for signs of fish on your teasers be ready. Rod in hand is best.
Lures should be run to set the hook at strike so have drag set at 1/3 breaking strain of line and if using riggers heavier setting on clips and heavier bands.
We use Eagle claw billfish hooks with great hookup and retention ratios up here using a couple of different rigging method depending on whether we are swimming baits or switching. On lures a single Jobu stiff rigged with point facing up (toothpicks are great) is all we use. safer and good hook up rate

Gav475's picture

Posts: 393

Date Joined: 16/11/11

great info

Wed, 2016-02-24 11:26

 thanks lads some great info there. Will put that into practice and fingers crossed get that photo for the mantle piece. Cant wait for may. If any one is up that way then give me a shout for a catch up and beer.

Posts: 4561

Date Joined: 01/02/10

 Does it confuse things if I

Wed, 2016-02-24 14:46

 Does it confuse things if I say towing lures for little blacks is 10 times easier than dealing with fussy sails? 

____________________________________________________________________________

Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?

Gav475's picture

Posts: 393

Date Joined: 16/11/11

nope

Wed, 2016-02-24 15:40

 honestly just want a bill fish and not geared with stand up harness or have dedicated gamefishing outfits. My gear is still qaulity, toriums saragosas ect so is more than adequate for small blacks or sailies. Shows how much I know about bill fishing as I thought sailies were the easiest target. Any help to get a bill along side would be hugely appreciated. I do have richter skirts in back and pink which do alright so im told.

ranmar850's picture

Posts: 2702

Date Joined: 12/08/12

Richter Soft Grassies are a fave at Exmouth

Wed, 2016-02-24 16:34

 We started using them last year, accounted for some sails and various other pelagics.  Haven't managed a black yet, but came close. Had  fish a good 50kg hooked up on a gar, but threw the hook after some great aerobatics. Will try going a bit wider and just trolling skirts this year as a change. Pink is good and also the genuine lumo colours.

Gav475's picture

Posts: 393

Date Joined: 16/11/11

target areas

Wed, 2016-02-24 19:29

 so I guess the next question is target areas from tants. Lasy year only got 1 day in the gulf that was fishable so most of the time will be west side. 100 meter line sounds like the starting area but do you troll along the contour lines or across them. I know the area reasonable well and intend to target the natural upwelling areas that are clearly visable on the charts as well as bait balls.

ranmar850's picture

Posts: 2702

Date Joined: 12/08/12

I don't fish up that north at Ningaloo

Wed, 2016-02-24 19:47

 I fish out of Winderabandi Point area. Sails extend from 20 metres out, our preference in past years has been around the 30-40 metre mark, but we have hooked up out to 100 on the rare occasions we went there. I have heard that 60 metres is the go on the West side? This from a guy that lived in Exmouth for some years running dive tours.  Keep your eyes open--always worth heading in the direction of free-jumping fish, and sometimes you spot them with bait balled up and circling them tight, just the tail and maybe a bit of dorsal out. if they are swimming along just under the surface, they'll often show that big tail.

If you want to whet your appetite, I've got a couple of videos in the Video section here. One on the sails we caught there 2014, fishwrecked.com/forum/ningaloo-sails and a shorter one from last year, when our last sail of the trip got comprehensively sharked . Only time is has happend to me.

 

fishwrecked.com/forum/sailfish-taken-sharks

Broome lad's picture

Posts: 191

Date Joined: 16/11/15

Billcollector

Wed, 2016-02-24 21:12

 Nailed it fishing for sails with circles is like taking candy from a baby I prefer a spin reel myself Saragossa I've been using last couple of years with good results very light drag to set the hook when you free spool point your rod tip at the fish when it's taken your bait and turned flick you bail arm over or lever drag up keep the rod pointed at the fish and let the boat do the work don't strike at all with circles when line starts peeling of lift your rod tip and let the fun begin . Always good to have a pitch bait ready to throw at a free swimmer while your fighting a fish we will quite often skip a bait of the front of the boat while backing down on fish which quite often leads to another hook up depends how serious you want to get . 

Posts: 1998

Date Joined: 16/05/09

Geez Broome lad it took years

Thu, 2016-02-25 08:28

Geez Broome lad it took years to convince you re circles lol
Saragossa reel will be fine we have had 80kg blacks hooked up and they handle it with ease. and agree with having a pitch bait ready as there is usually more than one sail in the mix

uncle's picture

Posts: 9322

Date Joined: 10/02/07

Caught sails and marlin on deep diving rapalas

Thu, 2016-02-25 09:42

 Or a  8.0 maruto needle sharp hook pushed into the gar so that eye of hook lines up with eye of gar.make sure mono goes thru eye of hook !! Dress with squid thing cant miss good luck

____________________________________________________________________________

all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs

uncle's picture

Posts: 9322

Date Joined: 10/02/07

More exciting way is in

Thu, 2016-02-25 09:53

 The burly trail but sharks make it hard now

____________________________________________________________________________

all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs

Brucesta's picture

Posts: 1721

Date Joined: 29/05/09

 i haven't fished for bills

Thu, 2016-02-25 16:24

 i haven't fished for bills off exmouth but i was told head north of tanta's off lighthouse bay and that 100m mark would be good country for blacks, don't discount sails at that depth, they will be there and of decent size too. if you want no fuss, then get to that 100m mark, run some pushers, like the guys have said the Richter Soft Grassy's are a favourite of mine too, in the black/red and silver skirt run in short behing the teaser and then a Lumo or Pink/White out long then have a pitch bait ready if those fussy sails come up for a look, the soft heads don't put them off, i've had them hit a lure about 7 times before but just couldn't find the hook, switched him instead!

the shallower you go the more risk of mackies hitting your baits or skirts. 3 lines would be maximum considering the crew numbers onboard, lures run a strike, 1/3 to 1/2 breaking strain, don't be shy!

 

____________________________________________________________________________

Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target

Posts: 5981

Date Joined: 17/06/10

I have just seen ranmar850s video

Thu, 2016-02-25 17:30

I have just seen your short video on catching beaks off Exxy. Then being sharked like that would really get me up set.

Time to look at a means of discouraging the sharks as they come in close to the boat.

ChrisG's picture

Posts: 558

Date Joined: 30/12/11

 70 metre line directly out

Thu, 2016-02-25 17:34

 70 metre line directly out front of tantabiddi north passage is as far as you need to go for small blacks....and that ain't very far. If water is the correct temp (we found above 26 was a must but others on here may say higher/lower) then whole area seems to be thick with them.

oscar Jnr and soft grassy skirted lures killed it for us....black Oscar Jnr on short rigger got hit that many times felt sorry for it.....especially when dollies started hitting it too. Pink and white, and Lumo were all winners too but further back in spread.

dont be shy on speed, I find erring on the faster side of 8-9knots works better than slower....especially in a little boat like mine when sometimes it's hard to maintain a constant slow speed in any type of following sea. On the Surge we are up to 11-12 knots, never below 8 and we aim for 8-9.

Once trolled for nearly the whole trip without a hit until we sped up! And don't knock out of gear or slow down when you hook up - goes against instinct but you need to speed up a knot or two or at least hold speed for at least the time it takes your mate to clear the deck, that way you know the hook is set.

We do with a crew or two and fish four lines pretty well (just need a plan) Ive even managed to nail on my own but I've lost more than I get when I'm on my own.  Our plan is decky tweeks up the drag a little on the rod that has the bite (but only if stripping line - cause loose line equals snapped line or spat hook). Then decky starts clearing rods, then by the time decky is pulling in the teaser the skipper has knocked out of gear and is fighting the fish.....sounds simple, but we nearly always muck up the routine when heart is beating and adrenaline pumping.....important to think about what you did wrong when you hook one the loose it (and you will,)...because nearly always its human error once you've got to that stage....then obviously try not to bugger it up next time! For me I seem to always let the line go loose when the fish jumps and then it spits the hook!!!! Pisses me off no end, especially when next turn is the deckies not mine, but I can seem to NOT do it....

 

Posts: 1522

Date Joined: 09/03/13

Wealth of knowledge here.

Thu, 2016-02-25 18:53

Wealth of knowledge here. you guys are awesome !

what's everyones opinions on best time for blacks and sails in Exmouth/ coral bay.....or the gulf ?

Gav475's picture

Posts: 393

Date Joined: 16/11/11

Just beat me to it

Thu, 2016-02-25 18:59

 Was about to say the same thing. Thanks heaps to all of you to take the time to help me out. After being sharked terribly on previous trips decided this year is the time to chase billies. Would be devestated to see a sail sharked like the video. Have a firm plan now in place and hopefully have some photos to share at the end of May. Cheers again lads.

Posts: 4561

Date Joined: 01/02/10

 Stick deeper than 60m and

Thu, 2016-02-25 19:14

 Stick deeper than 60m and you won't have too much trouble with sharks or macks.

____________________________________________________________________________

Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?

Brucesta's picture

Posts: 1721

Date Joined: 29/05/09

 Sails in the gulf over

Sat, 2016-02-27 19:58

 Sails in the gulf over summer, blues are summer too, blacks and stripes from March to September it seems

____________________________________________________________________________

Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target

Glen.vit's picture

Posts: 196

Date Joined: 11/01/11

was in Exmouth about a month

Sun, 2016-02-28 13:30

was in Exmouth about a month ago, found a pod of sails at the back of peak island but spooked em when we started casting big stickbaits into the baitballs, I have most of my luck on billies on the 100m contour west from north passage and troll as far south as south passage, troll as shallow as 70m, ive only used skirts and use 8 and 10 inch Oscars, black is my go to colour.