Just had the shit kicked out of me
It's a bit off topic but for those who haven't had their COVID vaccinations I thought I'd share my real world experience regarding side effects. I'm 48 and pretty fit and healthy (or so I thought). Had my fist Pfizer dose three weeks ago with no real side effects apart from a sore arm. Went in yesterday for round two and I woke up at one o'clock this morning freezing my tits off and shaking uncontrollably (This is definitely not normal for living in the Torres Straights). Had a hotter than hell shower for a half hour with all of the doors n windows closed in my bathroom and was still freezing afterwards. Tried using last nights towel to dry myself and it felt like it was liquid ice, switched to a dry towel and managed to get myself dry with chattering teeth and uncontrollable shaking. Hopped into bed with a doona ( definetly not normal ) and managed to get warm and get to sleep. Woke up an hour later soaked to the bone and feeling like I was on fire. Managed to get back to sleep and woke up this morning feeling like I've just met Marsellus Wallace's friends with the blowtorch and a pair of pliers. Every single joint and muscle in my body is absolutely munted and I'm hurting in places that I didn't even know that existed. Looks like a day on the couch with plenty of Netflix coming my way. Interesting thing is my wife had the Astra Zeneca jab and she got flattened by the first dose and felt okay with the second. Just be prepared when you get whacked to have some downtime available to get your back on track. Now if I can just get my dog to get the remote for me all will be good....
My wife understands why I clean my rods n reels in the shower....
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18025
Date Joined: 11/03/08
Not good at all. Hope all
Not good at all. Hope all goes well for you. If all else fails a bottle of good whisky would do wonders
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
sea-kem
Posts: 14967
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Yeah had the Astra mate and
Yeah had the Astra mate and was knocked for six for a day, I guess it's doing it's job. Wouldn't fancy catching the real thing, I have no doubt it would probably kill me.
Love the West!
sunshine
Posts: 2600
Date Joined: 03/03/09
I have had both shots of Astra
And absolutely NO reaction to either......but that's human physiology.....everyone's different
The Saint
Posts: 473
Date Joined: 30/01/13
I've had the first AZ jab,
I've had the first AZ jab, no ill affects whatsoever.
Mrs had hers and floored her for a few days, could'nt go to work for 2 days.
Gp told me that if you are going to have a bad reaction it will most likely be after first jab with AZ, but second one with Pfizer.
davewillo
Posts: 2398
Date Joined: 08/09/16
Have read the same thing re
Have read the same thing re AZ vs. Pfizer. A few people I know that have had AZ got floored too. It seems to be the "younger" ones that have been hit.
I'm probably being over-cautious but as I lost both parents at a pretty young age to strokes, I'm trying to wait it out for Pfizer. If things change like travel or higher COVID risk I'll just bite the bullet.
PGFC member and lure tragic
Moking
Posts: 1252
Date Joined: 30/05/12
Had the "Jab" - all good as
Had the "Jab" - all good as well. But was told take two panadol before jab - then two more panadol that night.
Worked for me.
My Dad taught me how to Fish-Thanks Dad.(RIP)
davewillo
Posts: 2398
Date Joined: 08/09/16
Hope you're feeling better
Hope you're feeling better soon Chris.
Cheers
PGFC member and lure tragic
Brando
Posts: 83
Date Joined: 30/03/16
Had the Astra and felt like
Had the Astra and felt like I had been run over by a bus for 24 hrs post injection and then all good. Getting second at the end of the month, so will see how it goes. Will definitely load on Panadol.
Brando
groverwa
Posts: 286
Date Joined: 21/07/14
AZ
I had my first jab - no ill effects and now had my flu shot and getting my second jab in a few weeks. I am on blood thinners namely PRADAXA which should stop any clotting. How many of you people have had a pneumonia shot - it is once only thing and might just save your life - I think it is free.
sea-kem
Posts: 14967
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Thanks for the head's up
Thanks for the head's up Grover, my younger brother had Pneumonia and it nearly killed him. Will look into it.
Love the West!
davewillo
Posts: 2398
Date Joined: 08/09/16
Yes I think it definitely
Yes I think it definitely worth looking into. I'll do the same.
PGFC member and lure tragic
uncle
Posts: 9474
Date Joined: 10/02/07
Yep had it, but got bacterial pneumonia last October
nearly carked it, also had shingles one, will get the covid next week
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
little johnny
Posts: 5357
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Mmmmmm
Unsure if I want it. Unsure atm . Not against it by all means
Rick
Posts: 1112
Date Joined: 22/12/06
AZ
Had the Astra few weeks back, was ok that day, but was certainly a bit rough the next day.
PGFC Member
Lastchance
Posts: 1273
Date Joined: 02/02/09
Why get immunised against
Why get immunised against something that you already have a 97% chance of surviving?
Mulie
Posts: 546
Date Joined: 20/02/11
If I had 100 straws in my
If I had 100 straws in my hand and you had to pull one, would you grab one knowing that 3 of them would mean death, would you be keen to pull a straw? I'm getting immunised so that I don't have to pull a straw.
Mulie
Swompa
Posts: 3878
Date Joined: 14/10/12
Because if you get it and
Because if you get it and give it to someone you love and kill them, you'll feel like a bit of a goose.
sea-kem
Posts: 14967
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Very simplistic comment
Very simplistic comment mate, the whole point of it (which it has been all along) is not to overwhelm the hospital system if there's a mass outbreak. Have a look at India they are basically screwed.
Love the West!
Lastchance
Posts: 1273
Date Joined: 02/02/09
The fact that the
The fact that the 'immunisation' doesn't prevent you from contracting COVID, nor does it prevent you from passing it on, makes not getting the jab pretty simplistic to me.
sea-kem
Posts: 14967
Date Joined: 30/11/09
That's the point mate, you
That's the point mate, you don't get as crook. Hence no need for hospitalisation and clogging of the system. I couldn't give a rat's that you don't get it, but if you and thousands of others don't then get used to a never ending cycle of lockdowns and all the aasociated shite. It's pretty simple. Vaccine's have been around for years and pretty well saved the human race as it is today.
Love the West!
Spinnerak
Posts: 521
Date Joined: 03/04/10
Best analogy I heard was
Best analogy I heard was that of the contraceptive pill. It's not 100% effective, people still get pregnant but it does a damn good job of stopping it. Britain is a really good test case as they have high covid and now high jab rates and as a whole people who were jabbed were 95% less likely to die from covid. Not just that but the rates of contraction and then passing on the disease were minimal. It really is the answer
Subway cookie is the best burley
Dhulicious
Posts: 16
Date Joined: 26/11/17
Had the Pfizer.
Sorry to hear you got a bad reaction fom the jab, I have had both doses of the Pfizer and had no reaction other than the sore arm from the jab itself. I've also had covid prior to getting the vaccination and all I had was a runny nose for a week and loss of smell and taste for about 5 days. Luckily for me it's probably the least sick I have ever felt. It seems to affect people very differently both the virus and the vaccine.
Hope you're back on your feet soon.
Silver Fox
Posts: 1111
Date Joined: 19/06/14
Feeling much better now.
Two days of feeling under the weather is well worth it in my books. Time to get back on the water!.
My wife understands why I clean my rods n reels in the shower....
Deckie
Posts: 1296
Date Joined: 03/04/09
3 Months.
I have to wait 3 months for my second jab. 3 weeks is quick, did you have the Phizer??
Cheers & Stay safe
Silver Fox
Posts: 1111
Date Joined: 19/06/14
Pfizer it was
Three weeks between hits.
My wife understands why I clean my rods n reels in the shower....
Xtreme Coolers
Posts: 725
Date Joined: 02/01/10
Far out mate
I have had my first shot of Astra with no real probs. Sore arm and a bit of a head ache the next day. Second shot due in a few weeks.
Silver Fox
Posts: 1111
Date Joined: 19/06/14
Hi Dave
You're still alive..... Good to see!.
My wife understands why I clean my rods n reels in the shower....
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Some covid19 stats to consider
Using official data from Australian health departments, it shows that if you are under the age of 70 in Australia, your chance of dying of Covid19 has so far been less than 2 (1.8) in a million.
Now if you are over 70, then that increases to over 200 (239) in a million.
I give these statistics because I don't think people understand enough about Covid19.
It is not a realistic threat to young or fit and healthy people.
And since the start of 2021, Australia has had just 1 covid19 death for all ages.
(If I used only the last 6 months of data then the risks of death would be far lower.)
In comparison, the risk of death associated with every Covid19 vaccine dose, is well above these numbers.
Again, using data from Australia's TGA, there has been 272 reports of death following Covid19 vaccines out of 5,076,413 doses.
That equates to over 50 (53.6) in a million per dose chance of dying (and remember you need multiple doses, plus annual boosters).
Covid19 vaccine advocates will try to argue that those 272 deaths have not been proven to have been caused by the covid19 vaccines.
There maybe some truth in that.
But that argument also applies to Covid19 deaths that are being recorded, which are often not directly related to Covid19.
Most Covid19 deaths are known to have other comorbidities which is why the elderly contribute to such a high percentage of Covid19 death statistics.
Please do some research prior to putting all your faith in to these new experimental vaccines that have not yet fully passed clinical trials (they have only been given Emergency use approval in the US and provisional approval in Australia, clinical trials are expected to be completed around 2023).
Silver Fox
Posts: 1111
Date Joined: 19/06/14
Each to their own
Living 75nm from PNG it's a very, very wise idea to get vaccinated.
My wife understands why I clean my rods n reels in the shower....
timboon
Posts: 2957
Date Joined: 14/11/10
Just out of curiosity Fox,
Just out of curiosity Fox, what's the 75nm from PNG got to do with anything?
I live within 200kms of Rockingham and am so far not pregnant ( as far as I'm aware ) without being on birth control.
I'm Def pro vaccine but I'll be going no where near this one for a loooong time.....
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
LastChance and BlueKaiser
LastChance and BlueKaiser both twisting data.
That is data from Australia looking at our curent and past infection rates and remember we have done remarkably wrong.
If you apply the same calculations to the UK, USA, Brazil etc you will see a totally different scenario.
I have a GP friend working in Cornwall UK who has lost 28 off his patients and friends to Covid. Now he does run a large practice in a retirement area (much like Mandurah where I work) but that is scary odds.
And like Andy (Seakem) mentioned above it is not all about yourself. It has a part to play because I am shit scared of suffocating or clotting to death, or multiorgan failure which is the mechanism Covid kills. Yes SURPRISE, COVID Clots people to death at a much higher rate than any jab from AstraZeneca ever will. And I am in the know, so if I am scared you all bloody well should be. The thought of seeing a Anaesthetist with full PPE approaching me with a Endotracheal (breathing) tube as my last ever memory of life scares the crap out of me.
Also scaring the crap out of me is "Oh I have some chest pain, shit it could be a heart attack. Better go to Hospital. Bugger they are all full and have no Oxygen anyway. Bloody Covid flooded them, Oh well die at home". These I cant get care deaths arent counted as Covid deaths, but once statisticians eventually get all numbers etc crunched we might see the full true impact off Covid.
I work in a Commonwealth Respiratory and Vaccination Clinic and have had to study the crap out of Covid, and the vaccines. I would, being over 50, happily have the AZ vaccine. It like Pfizer protects 100% against serious illness and death. It is a little less experimental than the new mRNA vaccine, having previously used the Viral vector in Flu and Ebola Vaccines. So the mechanics are proven. The mRNA vaccines are new tech and have never been used before.
But, being frontline testing for Covid had Pfizer. And as mentioned above first dose OK, second wasted a whole nice weekend in bed with chills, fatigue, Headache etc. But in the end wore it for the team and Australia in general.
This virus is coming, there is no long term way to stop it if we ever want to return to some Bali etc holidays, or invite tourist from other countries back. We could just keep the borders shut but would be so far behind other countries it is not worth contemplating.
And if it comes and circulates like the cold and flu, and you are not immune and catch it, well it could be your LastChance to stare into the eyes of another human!!!
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
sea-kem
Posts: 14967
Date Joined: 30/11/09
So good to get a
So good to get a professional and factual perspective Neals.
Love the West!
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Fear mongering
So we both agree that the mRNA vaccines are new tech and have never been used on humans before ... even though scientists have played with this technology for some 30 odd years and never obtained FDA approval.
The AZ vaccine still uses the spike protein which is the most damaging factor in both Covid19 and the vaccines.
Some opponents of these vaccines suggest these vaccines could produce toxicity of organ cells for up to 20 years.
Meanwhile, if you have had Covid19, you have natural immunity and have no need for a vaccine. Yet I see people in this thread who have had covid19 have still got the vaccine ... most likely because they have been wrongly convinced to do so.
And the kicker is the summary in which the flu is used to propagate the fear to get Covid19.
We have lived with influenza for decades and the facts are, we have had extremely high rates of flu vaccinations in the past decade in Australia which has not had a significant impact on the number of cases. What has made a significant dent in the influenza cases and deaths is our reactions to Covid19.
Which leads me to some more facts that those who make money out of vaccines do not wish to tell you.
During the past 12 months in WA (and in Australia) we have had less than 1% the number of influenza cases (116 vs 23,211) and deaths that we had in the 12 months prior to Covid19 reactions ... yet your GPs are still telling you to get vaccinated for the flu.
Further evidence that GPs and vaccine professionals do not appear to be interested in any cost benefit risk anlaysis of infectious diseases and the effectiveness of propagated vaccine solutions. The government has invested $5bn of our taxpayers money on Covid19 vaccines. Maybe those promoting it are getting some of that $5bn. By my calculations, $5bn is about $500 per dose per taxpayer. If they do now find problems with the Covid19 vaccine ... do you really think they will admit that their never before fast-tracked "provisional" approval was a mistake?
Dhulicious
Posts: 16
Date Joined: 26/11/17
Not wrongly convinced.
Simply had the vaccine after I had the virus to maybe allow me to not quarantine every time I return from work. At the moment I spend 2 weeks every swing in a hotel costing a shit ton of money. If there are allowances to maybe quarantine at home or better still not quarantine at all then I am willing to make that sacrifice as I have done. I also work in an environment where there are a lot of restrictions and they are just now starting to ease due to the vaccination rate. We have had over 150 positive cases where I work so with herd immunity and vaccination rates rising we are returning to some sort of normal.
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Interesting
Out of interest, those 150 positive cases, how many have died or got seriously ill?
It's concerning that your authorities fail to recognise that you have had Covid19 and you still felt the need to be vaccinated for their approval.
That is exactly what I mean when I say wrongly convinced.
There are critics (and studies) who suggest that people that have had Covid19 are two to three times more likely to suffer adverse side effects when/if they then get the vaccine.
Dhulicious
Posts: 16
Date Joined: 26/11/17
One dead and several have
One dead and several have been hospitalised but have returned to work. I believe there have been people with family members pass away as well but not sure of the numbers.
Percentage wise nothing to really scare me but one fellow workmate dying from what is basically a flu is a bit worrying. Would the normal flu have done the same thing?...maybe, a lot of the deaths are linked to other health issues.
In my case I wasn't really sick from the virus and the vaccination had no adverse effects either............at this point.
Probably done as much damage to myself over the years from diet, alcohol, and smoking
again all my choice.
Time to go fishing
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Correct with flu in last
Correct with flu in last season and current.
BUT why?
Simple. The best way to prevent flu is not the vaccine alone (85% effective) but Social distancing and Hygiene (plus mask helps heaps). And due to Covid what did we do. The R0 (replicating number of a virus) for flu is between 1-2, Covid classic 2-3, variants up to 3-5, Measles a scary 16 (12-18 - thank F Covid didnt have this). So if we do what we have done a no brainer we would have less flu and definitely less flu deaths.
In the USA >600K deaths, annual cancer deaths USA per yr ~600K. Are we all scared of the Ca, mostly blood oath. So letting Covid loose in a unprotected environment causing more deaths than all cancer combined. Scares the shit out of me!!
And also agree, Astra technology proven and done before, Pfizer is a good shot, but unproven tech.
Yet still the threat of Covid is huge, real and much greater than any other risk from vaccines.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Not that simple.
When I have been out in public, the vast majority of time I have seen neither masks nor social distancing in use in WA, so that cannot be the simple explanation for the dramatic reduction in flu numbers for an entire year, when compared to pre-Covid19 statistics. Likewise the vaccine cannot be attributed to it, given the massive differences two years ago when flu vaccines were used.
I suspect it has something to do with our Covid19 isolation internationally and with state boundaries, but that is nothing more than my suspicion/belief.
After almost 18 months of Covid19, we now have a much better understanding of the risks of Covid19.
We no longer need to be afraid of people falling over dead in the streets like we were made to believe was happening in China at the start of this pandemic.
I have tried to show in this thread that the risk to healthy people under the age of 70 is very low in our current environment. If you look at countries which have suffered Covid19 badly, you will also find that the risks are substantially less for the younger aged demographics and conversely, substantially greater for older ages, especially those with other health issues.
But we have had very little time to study the effects and risks of the Covid19 vaccines because they have not been put through the normal clinical trials and approval processes. Many of them also use new unproven tech (as you say). And adverse side affects are being mostly ignored and glossed over. I regularly read articles of US vaccinated people dying soon after and yet often they have not been entered in the VAERS reporting system. Many believe that safe alternative Covid19 treatments like Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin were demonised from being used because the FDA could not give emergency use approval to vaccines if there were alternative treatments.
At the very least, people should be encouraged to seek information and data so they can better judge whether the risks of Covid19 outweigh the risks and effectiveness of the vaccines for their individual circumstances. Subjective general statements that vaccines are safe requires a degree of ignorance of even the vaccine producers own warnings. Nothing is safer than avoiding both Covid19 and the Covid19 vaccines, which for many is still a valid option.
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Vaccines ARE safe
But like all drugs (and even food) have side effects in some. Peanuts are Safe, but if you are allergic they are deadly.
The same go for everything. Driving a car is Safe and we all do it, but the lifetime risk of dying in a prang is 1/103 (USA data). Per driving yr is about 1/7000. I dont hesitate getting in the car even at that odds.
Using the UK Qcovid risk calculator for my age and medical condition my risk is about the same 1/8000, but my fathers risk at 83 is 1/580. That is overall, not if you get it. I get it dying risk 1/100. If he gets it it is between 1/5 - 1/7 depending on where you live. That odd is just not worth taking and I am delighted to offer my arm to protect the ones I love and not being selfish trying to protect just myself from a tiny risk associated with the vaccines. But also now I have had the vaccines I do know 100% I wont die from Covid. I may still get it, but then the risk of spreading it is lower than if I just had wild covid unprotected.
Still a no brainer.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Reducing risks
I find it great that you look at the risks in terms of probability and make comparisons to things like driving a car.
That is what I would like more people to be doing.
My concern remains that you appear to generalise that getting the Covid19 vaccines will make you immune to any risk. That is not true. If it were, I too would agree getting the vaccine is "a no brainer".
The question remains whether you believe the vaccine will "reduce" your risk, because it certainly does not "remove" the risk, of harm to your health (and others around you).
My beleif that I am trying to express (and even to people more educated on the topic such as yourself) is that you may not understand the actual risks of these Covid19 vaccines. You are putting a great deal of faith and trust in them. eg. you say you know 100% you won't die ... which is not factual.
While you have those misconceptions about the risks of the vaccines ... you believe it is "a no brainer" ... the problem is, you are not aware of the vaccine risks and that is where your brain needs to work better to appreciate and understand those risks to allow a more informed judgement.
That is, it is not "a no brainer" to go buy the safest rated car so you no longer die or kill others in a car accident ... but it is worth understanding and appreciating the "reduction" in risk. There is no "removal" of the risk.
And again, right now in our current environment, because we don't have Covid19 prevalent, the risk is already reduced (there are very few other cars on the road for you to be concerned about, you are driving on a virtually empty freeway).
The vaccines against Covid19 may not even be effective at all by the time Covid19 becomes a risk to be really concerned about in Australia.
If you had have got a Covid19 vaccine in early 2020 (pretending one was available then), I believe that you would now no longer be protected by that vaccine (the antibodies the vaccine induced your immune system to make would no longer be of much good to you).
If you were told that your new safe car was only really safe for some months, not years, then that would affect your decision to buy it.
You don't want to have to buy a new one every 6 months. Vaccine producers are already saying you may need 3 doses in the first 12months for them to be effective (effective = a reduction in risk, not removal of risk). More doses means increases in the risks of the vaccines.
Vaccines do not come with no risks. There is enough anecdotal evidence in this thread alone to prove that point with many telling of the pain and lost days in work that they have already experienced due to the vaccines (while none have reported similar for Covid19) ... and those people still have a risk of dying from Covid19 and now, also the vaccine. How big that risk is, is the debate we need to have. The science has not been proven. No clinical studies have been completed.
sea-kem
Posts: 14967
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Your second paragragh is all
Your second paragragh is all pure speculation mate, you just don't know that as fact. Even as you point out the producers don't know that yet, it might not even be an issue so it's a moot point imo.
A reduction in risk ie getting extremely ill to the point of hospitalization is the basic minimum being sought. We all know sooner or later it will get here (community transmission) That's the point of vaccinating the population and mitigating the overwhelming of hospital overflow. That's the no brainer.
Love the West!
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Lots of no brainers here
In my second paragraph, I state I believe. I never stated that as a fact. So please stop debating points I don't even make.
The reason I believe the vaccines lose their ability over time is logically figured by the FACT that producers of these vaccines are the ones suggesting 2 not 1 dose is required, plus boosters likely within 12 months.
Why are so many of you no brainers so 100% convinced and sold in these vaccines. I believe (again my belief, not fact) it is because you have been convinced that it is your best hope of getting back to some normal life, so you have emotionally invested hope in the vaccines as a solution.
Have you done any research in to Hydroxychloroquine or Ivermectin and have you asked why our world governments have largely banned these successfull Covid19 treatments (and others) ... I suggest it is to artificially push you these money making vaccines ... the cost to you and your loved ones health appears to not concern them.
If these Covid19 vaccines, that target the spiked protein, common to coronaviruses are as safe and effective as you believe ... then why haven't we been all getting them before the pandemic??? Is it maybe because they haven't ever passed the clinical trials as a safe and effective human treatment???
I guess these are the questions I ask because I choose not to be a no brainer.
Reefsta
Posts: 311
Date Joined: 03/08/19
Detailed spike protein info
I get the concern about side effects and efficacy of the the vaccines, but I'm also researching as much as possible. You mention the spike protein as the most damaging in the AZ and virus, but it is worth noting that spike proteins are a feature of the many types of coronavirus, like those that cause the common cold. It is not something unique to the SARS-CoV-2 virus affecting humans, but common to coronavirus more generally, including those affecting other mammals, birds etc. If you want to research more deeply, here is a link to a scientific review about coronavirous spike proteins. It was published in 2016, before Covid, and hence provides an unbiased overview of spike proteins in that group of viruses. The summary at the start is useful.
https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev-virology-110615-042301
uncle
Posts: 9474
Date Joined: 10/02/07
Ok I asked my gp for the Pfizer vac
I’m 72 have a few existing medical problems, take blood thinners and my gp tells me that the Pfizer is not available for me, I wonder if it’s because he only has the az one, keen to get vac. But would prefer the Pfizer
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Pfizer makes me most nervous
It's pretty clear that I'm no big fan of any of the Covid19 vaccines, but the Pfizer one concerns me the most.
I don't trust Bill Gates motives and Pfizer is the one he is most linked to.
The mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) also have the greatest concerns in the world of vaccine critics.
And I see this morning that our Government is buying 51million doses of the new Novamax covid19 vaccine, in addition to 40million Pfizer doses and 53.8 million AstraZeneca doses. That's a lot of doses of vaccines for a population of 27million.
sunshine
Posts: 2600
Date Joined: 03/03/09
Australia not just looking after ourselves
But helping provide vaccines to our near neighbours and those countries less able to afford the cost. it is OUR obligation to do so and I applaud the initiative.
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Reasons for distrust
So just today my daughter goes to the GP to see about a cough.
The GP did not want to do bloodworks, but suggested Zinc (I believe Zinc is a great recommendation, so happy with that).
But he then pushes for both daughter and mother to get the influenza vaccines. They refused. GP says it is going to be a bad flu season.
Well, according to our WA Health departments latest report for the 2021 we have had just 8 cases of influenza for Perth Metro (vs 3,477 in 2019).
And just 1 case in the last 8 weeks reported.
Just another reason why I choose to do my own research instead of putting all my faith in people who have a vested interest in the profits from vaccines.
dodgy
Posts: 4577
Date Joined: 01/02/10
I'm not sure about that flu
I'm not sure about that flu spec. I along with most of karratha has had the flu this year and it properly flattened me for a week. Still not 100% nearly a month later.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Was it the flu
GPs generally diagnose and report influenza if they see it and they should get bloodworks to confirm it.
Here is a couple of WA Health department links for you to see that my data is solid;
Report of monthly WA flu cases 2016 - May 2021;
https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/Articles/N_R/Notifiable-infectious-disease-report?report=influenza
Weekly report from our WA Health department.
https://ww2.health.wa.gov.au/-/media/Corp/Documents/Health-for/Infectious-disease/Notifiable-diseases/2021/Week-21-statewide-notifiable-disease-report.pdf
Swompa
Posts: 3878
Date Joined: 14/10/12
There are some very
There are some very dangerous comments on this thread.
piscetor
Posts: 184
Date Joined: 13/05/16
astra zenaca
Ok the vaccine has had two related deaths but is still ok to have it! If that was a kids toy and it killed two kids it would be off the shelf quicker than you could wink, ditto if it was an unsafe power tool. So what is the difference between a toy or a tool that kills and a vaccine that does the same thing? In the case of the toy or tool you coud sue the manufacturers,bet you can't do that with vaccine..... Just saying!
Filletmaster
sea-kem
Posts: 14967
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Lol your analogy is wrong,
Lol your analogy is wrong, two totally different issues. One is a medicine for the greater good of the WORLD population, the other is a consumer item. It's a weighed up option mate, the vaccine's non compulsary. Don't have it and risk getting extremely ill with long term health implications or death. Or a very minimal risk of reaction and take the vaccine.
Fuck me anyone would think this is Communist Russia and they have a gun at our heads, it's a simple health issue. It's not perfect but nothing is in life.
I've just been to a funeral today to help a mate bury his daughter due to breast cancer, every treatment possible was tried to save her life but sadly not. She left behind 3 young daughters. Tell me you wouldn't try the same if it was your kid? Even with the risks involved?
How about you Blue?
Love the West!
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Sorry to hear of your mates loss
Genuinely sorry to hear about your mates daughter.
Strangely, the reason why I have stuck my toe in these muddy waters relating to Covid19 vaccines is mainly because of my genuine concern for the future health of my daughter and the current risks vaccines pose to her.
Sadly, vaccines in general do not come with a very minimal risk of reaction and these Covid19 variety are especially bad when you see the number of VAER and TGA reports that are being made.
In this thread we have had people have a reaction.
A fishing mate couldn't make my last fishing trip just this weekend past because he was too crook after his Covid19 shot.
My daughter had quite a severe reaction to the MMR vaccine when she was younger.
272 people have been reported to have died soon after getting a Covid19 vaccine in Australia.
And then we have all sorts of other conversations relating to the Covid19 vaccine risks out there including Bill Gates links to Eugenics and wanting to depopulate the world. The same guy who in October 2019 organised a private invite only Event201 to gameplan a global Coronavirus pandemic. The same guy who invested 50-100 million into the Pfizer vaccine partner a couple of months prior to the pandemic. And who says vaccines are his best investment ever with a 20-1 return on investment. The same guy who has reportedly spent about $250million on Covid19 vaccine marketing.
And then we can talk about reports of the vaccines attacking female placentas. How the vaccines may be able to shed from a vaccinated person to an unvaccinated person. How the previous vice president of Pfizer Michael Yeardon, who petitioned against the US effort for Emergency approval of the Pfizer vaccine on grounds that it could potentially cause female infertility and how he is now a voice for the Covid19 anti-vaxxers.
This is just a drop in an ocean of the content which the average person in here has no idea about, because you don't have time and you do what you should be able to do ... you put your faith in the system. If only your faith was enough to ensure the safety of these vaccines and those who get it.
Silver Fox
Posts: 1111
Date Joined: 19/06/14
Bill Gates depopulating the World?.
I think you need to have some Bex powders and a lie down.
My wife understands why I clean my rods n reels in the shower....
COASTALJOY
Posts: 79
Date Joined: 11/05/12
search
Have a search and see what Bill Gates said about depopulating the world by 10%, never know what you will find or where there is truth of fiction, hard to know what to believe nowdays
He fishes, He fishes, He fishes, its the only thing in life. All he ever gets is hell from his fed up wife
sea-kem
Posts: 14967
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Debunked by a reputable
Debunked by a reputable source, geez some people read and believe some absolute crap.
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-gates-vaccine-idUSL1N2MF1L8
Love the West!
davewillo
Posts: 2398
Date Joined: 08/09/16
Agreed Andy. I also choose
Agreed Andy. I also choose not to look into conspiracy theories too much or life is just to depressing!
PGFC member and lure tragic
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
reuters reputable ... nope.
This is the same news outlet that a year ago was reporting talk of Covid19 coming from the Wuhan lab as prejudiced conspiracy theories.
The same news outlet that one year ago was reporting that Trump had protestors cleared away with tear gas for a church bible photo op, but last week reported that didn't happen.
Bill Gates father had ties to Planned parenthood and eugenics.
2010 Bill Gates on Overpopulation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llAG5V7x17A
sea-kem
Posts: 14967
Date Joined: 30/11/09
I'm sorry but what's the
I'm sorry but what's the problem or conspiracy there? He makes perfect sense better health equals a lesser population which the world needs. He's not talking about injecting 5G or whatever other malarky conspiracy theorists like to believe.
That was the first news outlet that reported that on the Google list, there were half a dozen other news sources debunking the same garbage.
Love the West!
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Gaslighting
You do understand that wanting a lesser population is what eugenics or depopulating is? ... so why do you choose to call that a conspiracy when you appear to accept Gates wants that?
And who here mentioned anything about 5G?
You do understand that Google and big Tech have become politicised using censorship and AI algorithms ... or is that something else I need to explain.
Do Chinese people get facts or Chinese propaganda when they read the first half a dozen search hits provided to them?
sea-kem
Posts: 14967
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Mate you're the one
Mate you're the one espousing the supposed conspiracies.
And no I don't need educating on what you believe to be true, I'll make my own mind up with logic, research and common sense.
Anyway enough said, I see where you are coming from.
Tight lines.....
Love the West!
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
QAnon anyone?????Please try
QAnon anyone?????
Please try and read some scientific data and facts.
I can post the earth is flat, and someone is going to believe me!
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
Reefsta
Posts: 311
Date Joined: 03/08/19
chasing facts
Agree totally, we need to be objective and look at the facts and the unkowns. Posted above a link to an example of a published scientific review about spike proteins, just to counter Blue Kaiser's inference that they were somethign unique to Covid. We just need a balanced overview, based on known facts rather than speculaiton.
sea-kem
Posts: 14967
Date Joined: 30/11/09
That's a good link Reefsta,
That's a good link Reefsta, had a read of the first few paragraphs to put me in the picture before it went above my pay grade.
Love the West!
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
No inference
I know spike proteins are not unique to Covid19.
I stated that both Covid19 and the vaccine uses the spike protein and it is the most damaging factor ... I said nothing about it being unique.
That was a brief general comment, because the detail to explain my point is far too complex for this forum of discussion.
If you had watched the 15minute video link I had posted with scientists far more knowledgeable than you or I, you would clearly understand the point I made about spike proteins.
Reefsta
Posts: 311
Date Joined: 03/08/19
matter of degree
Not trying to win an argument either way, just wanted to point out some of the descriptions you've given maybe should be qualified a bit, rather than stressing words like spike protein and cytotoxic without more explanation . No doubt it is a bad virus, but not sure if the Covid spike protein is any worse, in terms of being directly responsible for the disease symptoms or the vaccine issues, than spike proteins on other corona viruses. Same goes for the word "cytotoxic". There are some really heavy duty cytotoxic chemicals out there, like those used in chemotherapy, but also heaps of data showing varying levels of cytotoxicity in common chemicals like alcohol. They assess the level of toxicity using cell cultures and tests involve varying concentrations and exposure durations. So, for example, alcohol is pretty cytotoxic in contact with cells above concentraiotns of around 10%. So maybe drinking beer is safer than wine or whisky etc.
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
QAnon and Flat Earthers
If you think I'm in that category, then that shows just how desperate your mind is working in order to try to dismiss my arguments.
I have been an outspoken critic of both QAnon and Flat Earthers because they were designed to discredit the larger conspiracy theorists group who do a great job shining the light on the truth that is being censored from the public.
As I have already stated, reuters position regarding Covid19 possibly coming from the Wuhan lab has been one of ... that's just prejudice conspiracy theories ... 12 months on and they, like the rest of the mainstream media are now asking the same questions "conspiracy theorists" were asking 12 months ago.
piscetor
Posts: 184
Date Joined: 13/05/16
You arent following the
You arent following the logic. one death is no more important than the other. The pfizer vaccine does not have the same issues as Astra zeneca, so why not just give every one the pfizer shot and eliminate the possibility of deaths. Or are they trying thin out the pensioners of the world? Anything that cause a person to lose their life prematurly should not be given out to anyone period!
I bet scomo never had the Astra shot or his parents. Screw them, I'll wait for something better or die trying at least it will be through natural causes and not some man made cocktail. I'm not against vaccinationing just not one that might kill or incompasitate me.
Filletmaster
little johnny
Posts: 5357
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Very interesting read
Way way above my pay grade. I rarely go anywhere . I will wait wait for a while before I get mine. I hate needles . Just the thought of a needle gives me goose bumps.
Billcollector
Posts: 2080
Date Joined: 16/05/09
Look out Simo this ones
Look out Simo this ones getting some steam
.
Simo_
Posts: 1843
Date Joined: 13/11/06
It's building. I'll start
It's building.
I'll start getting some popcorn ready.
Bring on April
Silver Fox
Posts: 1111
Date Joined: 19/06/14
Looks like I’ve created a monster
As C Montgomery Burns would say " Excellent "
On a more serious note people.
Do what's good for the greater of all people.
My wife understands why I clean my rods n reels in the shower....
mungus
Posts: 60
Date Joined: 15/03/11
This used to be a good
This used to be a good thread.
stickface
Posts: 34
Date Joined: 02/04/17
Blue Kaiser,I'm just curious,
Blue Kaiser,
I'm just curious, is it just the Covid vaccines you are opposed to, or are you what commonly referred to as an "anti vaxxer" ?
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
some here would call me an anti vaxxer
Some here would take comfort in calling me a conspiracy theorist and anti-vaxxer. That doesn't concern me.
For the record, I look at each vaccine on it's merits.
Sadly, far too often (if not in every case I have looked at), the vaccine producer's clinical studies have efficacy results far more impressive than the resulting real world effectiveness. And it is extremely difficult to find any raw clinical data on the risks and adverse side effects.
Years ago I disliked the influenza vaccines because I regularly witnessed fellow workers getting a jab and then needing time off work due to adverse reactions.
But when I made an effort to research the data and numbers for the influenza vaccine, I became more open to it because I realised; flu cases were high, flu deaths were high and flu vaccines were fairly effective (even if they were much less than producers declared but still effective and above 50%).
So, during bad flu seasons, I could agree that the influenza vaccine's effectiveness of reducing the risk of getting the flu (and death) was greater than the risks of adverse side effects ... for some individuals and groups. That is, I'm very much a horses for courses with vaccines. I believe vaccines work, but I also know they have risks. Trying to quantify those numbers is the difficult task because my experience from my research tells me I should not trust the numbers I see provided by our Health departments. eg. current GPs saying our Flu season will be bad BS!
NORUN NOFUN
Posts: 1035
Date Joined: 15/08/11
It's interesting that where I
It's interesting that where I work or at least the people in our department I asked the same questions as talked about above, only 3 people out of 40 have been vaccinated (In our morning meeting I asked how many people have had the covid vaccine) what surprised me was that the overwhelming majority do not intend to as of yet.
The overwhelming majority admit that it is inevitable they will have too but want to wait for more information, do they actively seek this info ? probably not based on most replies, most reasons were similar for waiting and the majority theme was that they do not trust the vaccine and the potential problems later in life, also they do not trust the govt and the medical experts around them. They also knew the risks to the older generation and the health system.
Blue Kaiser may be the minority here but he certainly is not based on the questions I asked fellow workers.
Try it at your work, you may also be surprised.
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Spike protein worries
Unless anyone wishes to direct questions towards me, I'll let you all be and leave this thread with a 15minute video that I believe covers some of the reasons why I am concerned about these Covid19 vaccines;
Spike protein is very dangerous, it's cytotoxic;
(includes Dr. Robert Malone, the inventor of mRNA Vaccine technology.)
https://youtu.be/Du2wm5nhTXY
Pob
Posts: 356
Date Joined: 13/10/10
Had my first shot of the AZ
Had my first shot of the AZ vaccine yesterday, feel bloody achy, sore and tired today and my arm feels like someone's gone at it with a cricket bat. Small price to pay I reckon, be nice to either see or have my aging parents visit at some point in the future.
Swompa
Posts: 3878
Date Joined: 14/10/12
I guess when the alternative
I guess when the alternative is choking to death as your lungs fill up with fluid, it's not too bad!
thanks for doing your bit for those who are unable to (like immune comprimised cancer patients, or those with health issues meaning that they can't get it)
Pob
Posts: 356
Date Joined: 13/10/10
Had my first shot of the AZ
Had my first shot of the AZ vaccine yesterday, feel bloody achy, sore and tired today and my arm feels like someone's gone at it with a cricket bat. Small price to pay I reckon, be nice to either see or have my aging parents visit at some point in the future.
out wide
Posts: 1535
Date Joined: 30/12/08
Not for me
3 months trials before the emergency use authorization..what a joke. Average duration of vaccine human trials is 3.5 years. A woman who worked for Moderna for 7 years ('till 2018) claimed that over many years they never succeeded in making a mRNA vaccine because in EVERY animal trial they had eventually ALL OF THE ANIMALS died. She described what caused the deaths, it was nearly always some sort of organ failure.
No experiment DNA altering drug for me. I'll stand by for a year or two then have a look for any side effects.
Remenber if you are under 80 and havent got a immune depressing illness you have all but 0% chance of dieing from covid. Actually there is probably a higher risk of dying from blood clots after receiving the mRNA vaccine. Dont listen to the raging media mob who love scaring the shit out of everyone [ makes them a lot of money ] and the B/S coming from the bureaucrats like lying american halfwit dr fauci who also likes scaring the shit out of everyone. He has been caught out giving the Wuhan covid lab bucket loads of money for experimenting on bat viruses. WTF.
Silver Fox
Posts: 1111
Date Joined: 19/06/14
Hmmmm
Calling Dr Fauci a halfwit. Is that you Donald?
My wife understands why I clean my rods n reels in the shower....
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Fauci is complicit in Covid19
There is plenty of evidence available to anybody willing to research showing Dr Fauci worked with the Wuhan lab on Gain of Function for Coronaviruses.
The work was previously being done in the US under the Obama administration. It was outlawed and no longer permitted on US soil, so it was outsourced to China-Wuhan were Dr Fauci's department funded some of that work.
Trump was wrong to initially believe anything Dr Fauci told him ... that was Trump's mistake.
Swompa
Posts: 3878
Date Joined: 14/10/12
this vaccine was pushed out
this vaccine was pushed out quickly because there were billions being thrown at its development and millions of of willing participants.
that doesn't normally happen.
Imagine if the world threw all of its focus on cancer cures for 12 months?
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Correct
A prof who developed the cervical cancer vaccine said it took 13yrs from concept to market. Purely related to $$$.
If money was thrown at the vaccines itcan be done fast as this now proves.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
Dhu_west
Posts: 116
Date Joined: 30/06/20
hear me out right, every
hear me out right, every person who drinks water dies. also im not a doctor, but im pretty sure every single way a living being can die involves organ failure, and i cant remember when aaaaanybody said that mRNA was DNA altering
More of a fisherman than a catcherman
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
First table I could find.
First table I could find. Case fatality below 80 = zero. Not so clearly.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
The Saint
Posts: 473
Date Joined: 30/01/13
And on a slightly different
And on a slightly different tack, have to have a chuckle at those I know saying they are not prepared to get the jab just yet because they are concerned about the affect if may have on them, then casually light up a cigarette !
Billcollector
Posts: 2080
Date Joined: 16/05/09
Bugger the cigarettes I
Bugger the cigarettes I better go crack a beer.
Billcollector
Posts: 2080
Date Joined: 16/05/09
And the government shifts
And the government shifts the AZ goal posts again to people over 60. mmmmmmmmm. I will wait. Policy on the run.....