Kayak Rescue
Submitted by Adam Gallash on Sun, 2011-06-12 18:04
I just saw something on the news about some kayakers getting rescued because they drifted more than a km off shore in pretty average conditions.
Now I was going to post this last night, but I watched Fishing Australia yesterday where they were marlin fishing from their kayak more than 2nm out from shore. During the footage it became squally, heavy rain etc etc - they had a 40ft game boat in support (to film). Whilst it was pretty cool to watch the few jumps it had (I didn't like the fact they had to tire it to almost death to get it anywhere near the yak safely), is promoting this type of activity to the general public a bad thing?
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thesupervisor
Posts: 1136
Date Joined: 10/06/09
yeah i watched that was
yeah i watched that was pretty good
it was 10nm out i dont think its that bad for the marlin as they may only get one in now and then
it was a 3 hour fight
and the shark problems of exmouth are not as bad
it did swim off pretty strong
as for saftey they were well prepared and had a big launch as back up but it may encorage a few crazies to try it and they may not be as prepared
getting the bottom line final answer from a bunch of blokes that use false names and put smiley faces at the end of paragraphs is not the best place in the world to get the information you seek.
PJ64
Posts: 14
Date Joined: 09/10/10
I blame all the cheap sit on top kayaks etc being sold by stores
Like anaconda, BCF etc yes its a great way to get people on the water. However, they are not getting taught correct safety requirements what gear they are required to carry, or how and when to use it or where to go to get this advice or taught the skill sets needed. As a qualified guide I watch people, and have had people ask me about, using them as cheap fishing platforms thinking they have no requirement to be safe on the water when the legal requirements (flares, EPIRB etc) are the same except the requirement to have an ancillery power source (paddles). Todays debarcle was a perfect example no PFDs worn or any other safety gear onboard, out in weather in open water not recommended for beginners or novices. Lucky for them they were spotted by the chopper because Green 2 had missed them in the water(a flare would have fixed that) or the enevidable double drowning would have been the end result. They only positive out of the whole thing was they didn't go alone.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8701
Date Joined: 24/07/07
More
Where was the required radio along with the rest of the safety gear? The call was made from a mobile phone.
Yes I watched the Fishing Oz show and thought it gave the wrong impression that it was safe to do it without the back up support that they had for the show.
Hazell
Posts: 194
Date Joined: 26/10/09
Marine radios are only
Marine radios are only required legally by boats or yaks if you are 5nm from shore.
Ash Hazell
"A cast a day keeps the psychiatrist away"
carnarvonite
Posts: 8701
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Metro area
Not 100% sure but I think that is in metro waters from Two Rocks to Rotto anywhere else its 2km from shore.
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
http://www.transport.wa.gov.a
http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/19163.asp
Radios – who must carry one?
You must carry a marine band radio if you go more than five miles from the mainland shore. The choice of radios is up to you, it can be 27mHz, VHF or HF.
Surprising really, 5mn is a long way out to have no comms.
hlokk
Posts: 4293
Date Joined: 04/04/08
5nm the whole coast as per my
5nm the whole coast as per my understanding (or 1nm from an island) http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/19089.asp
I think the only exception to the rules is the EPIRB exempt zone around Perth. http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/19164.asp (which is otherwise 2nm or 400m from an island)
Iceman
Posts: 749
Date Joined: 17/03/09
The West
Here is the details on The West Website.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/9626250/kayakers-rescued-off-wa-coast/
We are seeing more and more Kayaks in the metro waters. One of the problems is the ability to spot them. I feel the department of transport needs to look at regulating them and this situation on the weekend is a perfect example. They should be registered and be required to carry the same safety gear as any vessel.
One thing I would request all Kayakers do is have your details somewhere on the Kayak. Have name, address contact number and car rego. This way if we find one at sea we know who it belongs to. We had this situation late last year when one was found of Scarborough. Search initiated, but later found it had drifted from Rotto after falling of a boat overnight. Owner did not bother the tell anyone. Just happened to hear about it on the radio.
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Hazell
Posts: 194
Date Joined: 26/10/09
I'm pretty sure these were
I'm pretty sure these were not kayak fishermen but just people out for a paddle.
Kayakers do have to follow the same rules as boats aside from a fire extinguisher and a skippers tickets. Most of us yak fishos do. Flag kits are not required by law but most of us have them when fishing offshore.
At 600m offshore, they should have been carrying Life jackets, Anchors, Flares and a Bailer.
Ash Hazell
"A cast a day keeps the psychiatrist away"
Albee Mangles
Posts: 985
Date Joined: 20/05/08
Unfortunatley this is a case of
the bad apple making the rest of us look bad. These guys were 600m offshore when one of them capsized, he must have fallen out, with the yak still being upright, as it blew away quickly, and without a lifejacket he would have been clinging to the other yak to stay afloat. These guys were not Kayak Fishers, obviously idiots, with no idea..
The hottest topics on all the yak forums are the Safety topics, the guys who fish always have their safety gear, i've been checked several times by the water police and they are always impressed with our standard of safety and have told me so. We currently have top topics on visibility, and as Hazell said, most of us use safety flags, all have night lights, hi-vis clothing, these are all no brainers. There already are rules in place, that require us by law to wear lifejackets, carry flares, anchor, spare paddles, bailers, EPIRBS (where required) and radios, and we carry them already.
Unfortunatley you can't legislate for stupidity, there are still way more small boat rescues from idiocy in Perth waters than kayaks, this is thankfully, a pretty uncommon case. I do agree that kayak sellers should be educating customers more, but realistically the guys going offshore are already well informed, equipped, and have experience in these types of situations, we push the safety issue heavily on Yakfishwest, and the guys do take note.
Before we scream for "LEGISTLATION" to cure the problem, put it in perspective.
Gadsy
Posts: 1467
Date Joined: 01/05/10
Well said Brett
Don't tar us all with the same brush folks. Boaties have a duty of care to keep their eyes open when out on the water too. There have been too many near misses from boats passing very close to yakers at speed.
the ferret
Posts: 70
Date Joined: 11/12/09
That's exactly why you should
That's exactly why you should be wearing a LIFE JACKET!!
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PJAY
Posts: 1005
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alby has hit the nail on the
alby has hit the nail on the head, last year on a very average afternoon in the middle of cockburn sound i rescued two kayakers. they had the safety gear but not the brains. they had bought the yaks the weekend before, had never used a yak before, didn't think of checking the weather forecast and decided to paddle from Rockingham to Woodmans Point for a picnic and back.
when i found them they were both very knackered......so they are out there??
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Adam Gallash
Posts: 15665
Date Joined: 29/11/05
yep
I'm not trying to turn this into a kayak vs yak thing either, just maybe some thoughts on how things like this could be prevented in the future as the weekends event could easily have turned to tragedy.
It would have been great for Fishing Australia to really harp on the importance of the safety side of things, especially seeing as every week they are trying to flog hobie as much as possible. I'm guessing if some sort of education isn't brought into place to start with then it won't be long before a tragedy and then legislation will be required if it shouldn't already?
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DhuBoi
Posts: 896
Date Joined: 25/05/09
In my view of things. People
In my view of things. People these days just to do not make corect judgmental decisions or think about what there nor do they have the right knowledge an information on some of the activities in which they want to do. People dont really realise the power on the ocean in terms of currents and tides. Quite easily getting swept out km's offshore. Pretty basic if you dont know you dont go. Whenever im on the water ill always have a lifejacket close. People seem to think of im in a kayak ill be safe for some reason. I myself have a kayak an will watch the weather and tides etc very closely. Most the time I dont take her out on the ocean i just stick to rivers and catching different species of fish in rivers and getting into all the tight spots lager vessels cant. They are awesome fun but like everything they hahe there dangers if you do not know what you are doing.
living is fishing
Albee Mangles
Posts: 985
Date Joined: 20/05/08
There already is Legislation in place
We have laws that tell us what we have to carry, these guys broke the law. Adam is right in what we need is education, not legislation. These guys are no different to the idiots who go out in boats without the safety gear and get in trouble, they come from the same school of ignorant and stupid. If legislation was in place, the same idiots will still ignore it. Bring in legislation, and it will punish the majority who do the right thing, and likely wreck the sport for those who are truly passionate and experienced, we are fisherman after all, just like you blokes. Most of us have hundreds of hours on the water and lots of experience in other areas of watercraft, and boating before turning to kayak fishing.
There is legislation and education in place for boats already, but still people die and are injured each year from not doing the right thing, there will always be idiots, don't punish all for the sake of a few.
Some of my columns in Wangler have focused around the safety issues, gear etc, so the info is out there.
hlokk
Posts: 4293
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Re legislation, as you said,
Re legislation, as you said, there were already laws designed to prevent this that they werent following. If they arent following existing laws, new laws wont help, as you said education would be the key. I guess you can attack it from two ways: to improve information access (i.e. ensure people who buy kayaks know that there are rules and can get easy access to them via pamplets at the areas they buy them perhaps) or getting people to use their brain in any situation (ok, I think this one is impossible).
Seems that most yakkers like yourself Brett would be doing all the right things regardless of whether there was a law for it or not, which is the right attitude IMO. You should be keeping safe because its the sane thing to do, not because its required by law (examples of things like high vis vests and flags worn by many yakkers demonstrate that). Unfortunately you cant legislate that people use their brains, you just have to hope that most do the right thing. I hope I would be correct in saying that the majority do do the right thing. Certainly pushing safety as you mentioned on yak forums and in wangler can increase awareness of safety considerations and hopefully decrease incidents like the above case.
Makes you wonder if they knew the rules and didnt follow them, or if they were just not aware of them (like they werent aware of the appropriate sea conditions). On one hand its kinda easy to say they're just idiots for not considering the situations, but on the other hand, there are situations where a normal, somewhat intelligent person, who is using their brain, is just simply unaware of things that seem obvious to people with any experience. E.g. the power of the sea and how quickly conditions can change. The article said they were close to shore but pushed offshore by a strong wind, so for such close in they might have not needed much safety gear and just assumed close to shore they'd be safe (many people not familiar with the ocean might think that). You would think it crosses their mind, but some people in new environments just arent aware of dangers they have no idea about (even if they're trying to be safety conscious). People tend to brush off experiences of their own stupidity/ignorance though (especially when they dont end up causing major consequences, perhaps by luck), so its easy to call them idiots for not taking much different risks than most of us have (that didnt turn out that bad). Of course, they could just be idiots plain and simple. They werent wearing life jackets for example. But then who here has kayaked inshore without one before? Just so many sides to it.
Good to see that sea rescue were able to save them. No matter the reason for someone in trouble, its certainly comforting that there are people out there willing to save other people.
glastronomic
Posts: 892
Date Joined: 16/02/11
So how is this them
So how is this them applicable to surfers and SUP's (Stand Up Paddle boards)?
THe are reguarly above seal island (off Hillaries) riding the surf and that is way past 600 mtrs from shore?
MattMiller
Posts: 4171
Date Joined: 15/06/09
Mate
there are a couple of breaks we surf down here that are up to 1km from the shore.
When was the last time you heard of a surfer rescued by the water police???
AllBoatsChandlery
Posts: 118
Date Joined: 17/07/10
Kayaks
While you's are hot on the kayaks.............
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Frenzy Angler at $599.00 1 only inc a free seat and paddle.
Scrambler 11 at $720.00 inc a free seat and paddle.
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Go to my specials page for specs, more offers and details http://www.allboatbusiness.com.au/accessories/specials/
"There's no business like boat business"
Albee Mangles
Posts: 985
Date Joined: 20/05/08
Some nice deals there!
Not throwing in any hi-vis gear, basic kayaking info or safety tips too are you?
AllBoatsChandlery
Posts: 118
Date Joined: 17/07/10
No but
No sorry but the safety gear ie: pfd's, flares, plb and any other neccessary items are suggested and are always what we preach, up to the customer if they wish to take it.
"There's no business like boat business"
glastronomic
Posts: 892
Date Joined: 16/02/11
Not so very long ago, You
Not so very long ago, You could operate any recreational boat you liked without skippers ripoff ticket and booklets of legislation/ fishrules/safety rules /toilet rules.
Then Alana Mctearfull had a rare clear moment of grabbing more Ca$h
Entering Rotnest island in your own boat is frightning without a lawyer on board interpreting this maze of rules shrouding this open "public space"
Fines for just entering is ridiculous!
Yes we have to have rules but it is getting ridiculous.
There will always be "not thinking it through" people and the Kayak fad is bringing them out due to the very small cost of being abe to get on the water.
Never mind all the song and dance routine by shitloads of "educational specialists" regarding safety/ rules / legislation/etc.etc.;
People still will get into trouble.
hlokk
Posts: 4293
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Well, i'm going to go out on
Well, i'm going to go out on a limb and say that compulsory skippers tickets are a good idea. With the number of boaters ever on the rise, it was not an acceptable situation to have people in charge of motor vehicles in crowded areas with no training, no understanding of the rules at all. You can get your skippers ticket for half the cost of an EPIRB, or half a radio, or two sets of flares. The tests are pretty basic, but at least it requires people to study the rules. And certainly for safetys sake reducing the number of uneducated ignorant idiots on the water is certainly a good thing.
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
If only there was a clue test
If only there was a clue test for the internet!
Perhaps then you wouldn't have to list people whine about a proposal that ensured a minimum level of education and equipment!
Iceman
Posts: 749
Date Joined: 17/03/09
Skippers Ticket
Just because people have a skippers ticket it does not mean people know what they are doing. At Whitfords Sea Rescue we have seen a 30% increase in rescues in the last 6 months. I feel that having the Skippers Ticket can make people overconfident in their ability and this is when they get in trouble. Common sense is the best approach particularly when it come to mother nature and the ocean. Anyone who goes out on akayak or out in boat in 25knt winds needs there head examined. We quite often see people launching and when we question why they are going out they say "oh we are only going out a short distance".
As shown by this example you do not need to very far offshore to get into trouble.
Another example was last week we had a Epirb and 000 call for 5.5mt vessel 20nm of Ocean reef. Wind were 15-20 knots. We launched 3 rescue vessels, police vessel and rescue chopper to assist. Again commonsence did not prevail. All in the name of catching some fish.
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MattMiller
Posts: 4171
Date Joined: 15/06/09
Same old problem
it's impossible to put rules in place to protect morons.
There used to be a thing called 'natural selection' but that doesn't exist in todays society. Mores the pity.
STEVE231
Posts: 1443
Date Joined: 05/01/10
If I'm not prepared to drop
If I'm not prepared to drop a 21ft boat in the water on that day why would going out in a kayak make it any better? At least they were taught a good lesson and hopefully that will be two less tools that need rescuing in the future.
glastronomic
Posts: 892
Date Joined: 16/02/11
Exacly correct to state that
Exacly correct to state that the "skippers ticket" program is flawed.
Even the most basic boat handling skills are not propperly/ correctly taught.
Same with the WA drivers license be it car or MC.
People are taught how to pass the test but not what it is realy like to drive a car, never mind to ride a Motorbike safely or operate a boat in the real envoirment.
Propper driving, riding, boat handling Education is seriously needed, lets legislate to do it propperly and a propper test to pass to give people a decent base to go from.
New inexpirienced drivers are being send out into the real unforgiving traffic world with a bit of paper/plastic card (which is more to do with big brother data gathering) after their $$ are taken with S.F.A. skills.
They are euphoric at first instance and then when they enter on their own the reality sets in with a real shock plus dangerous implications, despite a P plate, for a great many.
MattMiller
Posts: 4171
Date Joined: 15/06/09
Having said all that
and I do agree with most of it i'd rather there be a skippers ticket than the previous setup, nothing.