anyone know how much they are?

Wouldnt have a clue Street but would like to know,

Mabye Ryan T can shed some light on the matter and when they are going to come out over here.

i think i heard november/dec,but going by penns record on releasing things i wouldnt count on it till next year :p

you'd be lookin about $800 me thinks about the same as a VSX

Tackle Dangler

So whats different from the old ones?

All the advertising hypes fine - but fio yuor going to talk about bridge plates etc and studs for main and pinion gear - then why not depict the new and old and show us the engineering improvement?

I'm a fan of Penn gear - but not that sort of technical promotion with no internal workings pics or line drawings to back it up! You can't just assume everyone automatically knows what your talking about - specially not when selling "top line gear off" a production line in 3rd world China for goodness sakes!.

Did they ever think - some of us might be fundamentally opposed to the type of oppression we saw in tienenmen square? or the slave wages situation of child labor sweatshops that build these products?

I don't mind paying whatever it costs to keep my fellow Americans allies at Penn USA in a Job if their gear is good!

However if you want to make it in the 3rd world with little 10 year old gals with their fingers inside huge operating machinery for 20 c a week, for working 18 hour shifts in orfder to make a profit, then I have to start to question the ethics of the company and if i want to continue to support them with my hard earned.

Sorry Penn but ya gotta do better than that, to influence this lil black duck to open the wallet, than reference some obscure discussion that took place somewhere on a boat between a CEO and a design engineer. I ask the obvious question - can either of them fish?

If not, who Gives a Flying Freckle what they sketched on the back of a napkin! I once sketched a nekkid woman on the back of a napkin, but it didn't get me laid that night :rollseyes: It also don't make me an angler or reel designer.

The advert seems tall on hype and short on facts that would convince me!

I look at the reel and in my minds eye, I see some innocent girls fingers all cut off - with their blood on my cheap (expensive) reel...

Thanks but no thanks! Employ me - my country folk and my allies - and leave the child exploitation to those nations whos communist rule, our fathers and their fathers before them laid down their lives fighting against - to ensure our kids wouldn't be working in slave labour conditions...

I think a lot of em would roll in their graves if they saw us propping up the communist regimes by moving our manufacturing there!

Cheers!

".unless you support the slaughter of dolphins.then go" made in japhan"

I won't boycott Japan simply because of this Dolphin business. I don't think it is right and I darned well don't condone it but they make good gear and I don't think everyone should be punished because of it.

-----------------
Jay Burgess
jayburgess_14@hotmail.com

Hi All,
I am a Penn Pro-Staffer all the way over in California.
I can't speak about financial exchange rates or non-US distribution, but the Penn Torque 300 is now "in stock" in US stores at $399 US.
It is definitely a "Made in USA" product, as are all of Penn's upper-end reels.
Draw a line roughly at $150 US, and Penn reels below that price are now or will soon be made overseas, it is simply economic reality.
No other reel company is making reels of that price in the US period, and most never did.
I have had a Torque 300 since July, and it is awesome.
I have caught dozens of fish from 10 to 170 pounds, including bluefin tuna, yellowfin tuna, striped marlin, yellowtail, amberjack, etc.
Just got a Torque 200 field-test model, but haven't managed to catch anything over 20 pounds yet.
Will be going out on a San Diego 10-day long range trip on October 11 to really get them revved up.

Thanks for the update on availability, they certainly look the goods. Unfortunately I am a lefty and over here it is very difficult to get hold of left hand wind reels without paying a premium. I use a Penn 321LH for most of my bottom bashing, loved it to death (wobbly handle now) and use an Okuma Convector to get me through at present but would prefer something a with a leverdrag. Anything coming onto the market in the near future that would fit the bill?

good to see some feedback from the companies! As with most inta's id imagine its a tough ass reel and am looking forward to using one in the near future. Then my verdict will be in ;)

Welcome to fishwrecked Dave,

I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to this post and clarifying your decision making processes in regards to moving operations overseas.

Trust me, there are plenty of believers in the napkins. I think the 850 and 950 models must have been the most popular spinning reel here for many years. I fish with vast numbers of anglers and I think nearly everyone of them has a penn 850 or 950 in their arsenel.

Please download this video I made which features the Penn reels in action:
http://fishwrecked.com/node/1158

If you want to see some old school Penn reel action, please download this video:
http://fishwrecked.com/node/3359

Theres no denying that Penn are up there as one of the best fishing production companies, well, in my experience anyway. Has any one got any positive/negative experiences with the Penn product which could be used as feedback?

Cheers,
Adam
fishwrecked.com

Can't comment on the internationals as I haven't used them but a I first used my dad's Penn Senator's (4/0 and 6/0) trolling for Kalbarri yellowfin just over two decades ago. Big fish, mammoth battles, trip after trip and they never missed a beat.

Spinfishers I have fished with for the past 18 years (first swapped after stripping the gears on a 499 mitchell during a phenomenal week long run of shark mackerel at Garths rock in 1987). My original 850 has been fished hard, requiring 1 main gear replacement. The main gripe I had with the 850 reels was the lack of a line roller bearing. Fortunately John Devitt could fix this problem.

Over the subsequent years I added another 8500 and two 9500 spinfishers to the arsenal. All good (especially line roller bearings on 9500). These reels will last me forever, but the key to this is fishing them with MONO only. They were never designed for braid.

4/5 years ago I bought a 5600 slammer (I've used it for jigging with 35lb XDS) and a 4600 liveliner (14lb XP). Both have been great reels and feel a lot smoother with braid than the spinfishers.

Can't comment on the Chinese spinfishers but I can't see a need to buy one at the moment.

John
Proud Penn User

Great to get a first hand insight into a topic. Cheers for your comments Dave and as already said welcome to Fishwrecked.

I have to say that I am an avid Penn man! Got that from my old man as he has always used their reels and never had a problem.

The only non Penn I have is my saltist but that is because Penn did not have a reel that filled that market of a real high speed and high drag setting that you need for jigging and the likes. That was until now of course and by the looks and the reports I might be adding one of these torques to my collection. Cant wait to give them a run.

All up I have 5 Penn reels (6/0 senator, 965 international baitcaster, Formula 15LD 2 speed, 330GTI and a 68 Longbeach) and my old man has 4 (950 and 850SS, 4/0 senator and a silverado). All have been fantastic and we have abused the preverbial out of all of them and they have never missed a beat.

Cheers

Gully

Nice Schematic Dave - you must have napkins the size of a table cloth! ;o)

Glad to see it's USA made too! (Two Thumbs Up).

I'd like to see Peen show some much needed leadership - and expand their USA manufacturing to offer the Katrina Victims, jobs and income - so they can get their self respect and pride back!

Screw the economics of Manufacturing in Asia, look after your own people at home first - those people a year after the disaster still have nothing despite the $billions promised in aid! Give them jobs and a wage and some self respect back - the Chinese Communist regime have the worlds worst human rights record for forced child labor.
Don't trade your fellow Americans futures for the sake of a Communist regime dedicated to the downfall of capitalism.

We your allies would sooner our tackle $ goes to improving the lives of your citizens, even if it means the product costs more! No one out engineers American ingenuity, so show us the leadership your nation needs right now and put your people (our allies) back to work Dave - then you'll earn our undying support!

I count myself a Penn fabn with probably a half dozen or so Penn Fly Rods from the days when they were made in the USA (as distinct from the Jarvis Walker factory in Asia), a couple Penn G series flyreels, more recently the Penn Accord Spinning reels from China.

I am in the market to kit out the Charter Boat with game fishing gear, and most of it will be American made Penn Overhead gear!

Your allies will support you with our tackle purchase $ - if you show the leadership and support your own people in need right now!

Open a Penn factory in New Orleans - and put your people back to work is my suggestion!

Screw the Chinese!

When they are at war with you (& us) over Taiwan in a few years time - the cost to start up your manufacturing will be even dearer still. Bite the bulet now and invest in your own nation and your own people. Our $ support - will follow as a matter of course!

Thats the sort of leadership - I'd like the CEO of Penn to be showing Dave, as a life long fan of your product!

Since your dad worked for Penn for 47 years before you - likely he'd be telling you the same thing, I would hope! The easey way is never the right way Dave, the hard choices we make now will pay off in time to come.

The biggest threat the USA will ever face in the future will come from Red China - make no mistakes about that! The way it's going they won't have to beat you at war - they might swallow you economically first and take over the country without ever firing a shot..

The hard yards now will pay off in the future is my advice! Your own people in New Orleans need all the help they can get to get their lives back together! Your country was built - on taking in the worlds unwashed, unwanted & poor peoples from other nations, - giving them opportunity and work. It is a damn great formula (and what made you the worlds superpower) - don't turn your back on it now, is my suggestion!

Cheers!

As an MBA graduate and semi retired executive I have every bit of respect for our new "best mate" Dave. He is in a very difficult position balancing the ideology of keeping the company home grown versus the powerful economics of outsourced labour. Not many companies survive 47 years, so I think they are doing a damn fine job of balancing this equation so far. I think his preparedness to enter a forum on our humble little site shows he aint about to back down and obviously reads and absorbs the valuable feedback that forums such as this must provide.

No matter how noble it might seem for corporate America to save the people of New Orleans, I am afraid, irrespective of how sympathetic a CEO is to the plight of these people, they still have to answer to shareholders, and a CEO that chooses sentiment over economics will have to answer to the shareholders with one almost certain outcome (bye bye). Now unless you can convince millions of people and thousands of corporate investors that such a move will be beneficial to the triple (quintuple these days) bottom line, then you are flogging a dead horse IMHO.

As a responsible corporate citizen I am sure Penn are doing lots to give back to the community that we will never ever hear of (no fanfare), but I don;t think they will succumb to the idealistic rationalle that you have espoused Shann. Top marks however for having the courage to tell it how it is, but I am afraid I am a consumer in an international economy, where product quality and price have no geographical boundaries. Otherwise I would be one of those label reading supermarket mums that take 4 hours to do the weekly grocery shopping. I'm too busy for that....quality and price....simple as that.

Love your product Dave, now just make it easier for me to get some Left Hand Lever Drag Overheads and I'll start buying some more. (Wink)

We can rationalise a lot of things based on the Fiscal Imperative Andy.

At the end of the day it isn't just about price and quality...

What good price and quality if you lose your, generations in the building, "customer loyalty" - for a co. like Penn, that translates to goodwill, and I'm guessing - the bottom line value of a short term fiscal gain in profits, might be overshadowed by a drop in "goodwill capital value of the co." if enough loyal customers desert the ship over the China manufacturing decision.

It's different for us Andy - we are onlookers from without - whereas, I follow closely the USA boards like Florida Sportsmn where I notice many of Dave's fellow American fishing colleagues are saying similar things to what I've said basically. My experience so far has been that the Americans are a fiercely patriotic bunch who rally round the flag in times of duress.

I know that Dave will be well aware of this.

I don't doubt his claim that outsourcing manufacturing has been a dreafully hard decision. In the event that it all goes bad in China in the future - explaining to shareholders then - the capital cost of the need to re - establish home grown manufacturing, would be a very hard sell IMHO..

At least they HAVE kept the top flight range of gear all home made - that is something to be very thankfull for IMHO. Penn deserve accolades and our support for that courageous decision in this climate.

I just have this feeling Andy - that more courageous decisions will need to be made in the sort to medium term future, by CEO's like Dave, as a result of how world events may pan out with China & Nth Korea, but more specifically with Iran & Syria in the short term future.

If it hits the fan as I strongly suspect it may - then - having too many company eggs in the China Basket may prove to be a decision that likewise could see a CEO saying bye bye to the shareholders sooner than planned...

Tough world we live in, right now, for a CEO IMHO - and Dave has my sympathies - I wouldn't swap spots with him for all the spare manufacturing capacity in China, right now.

All the same - he has a good product, good people, and usually thats enough - there will always be people who appreciate quality and are prepared to pay for it! Course Andy - you molly dukers (Left Handers) will just hafta get used to paying extra for being cack handed when it comes to tackle! ;o)

Cheers!

Thanks you for the responses.

For years we have been a quiet company and haven't done a great job of communicating our vision and direction. I hope you develop a sense that we are working hard to develop new reels that are in line with what you expect from Penn. While we have outsourced some reels, 8 of the 12 new reels introduced this year are being made right here in our Philadelphia plant. It is our belief that the only way we can maintain our US production is to innovate and aggressively patent protect our ideas. If we are successful at this we can insulate ourselves somewhat from the global market and maintain the high-end quality reels that everyone expects from Penn.

I'll keep checking on the differnetsites to see what is happening and what we need to keep our eye on.

Thanks again,
Dave Martin
CEO
Penn Fishing Tackle

To give you your credit where it's due, you would be the ONLY CEO of a reel co that I've ever seen partcipate in a web forum community, such as you have! (With the exception of Terry Hayden downunder of Hayden Flyreels). I've never seen Graham Dunphy from Shimano in Oz for example - talk (listen) to his customers in the manner you have here, so thats certainly a plus for you. (Three thumbs up!)
Things I've always liked about Penn product have been the fact I can STILL get spare parts for my Penn reels, while a lot of the Japanese counterparts seem to be throw away reels - something goes wrong and you bin them basically!

Please don't stop manufacturing and stocking a good range of spare parts, even years past the end of model run date! It's just one reason - your loyal customers support the co, and product!

Andy of course raises a REALLY good point - designing in the capability to alter product for left handed use - a possible company strong point, if you can incorporate it into designs..

Lastly, there are a small legion of engineering type guys around who specialise in beefing up and fine tuning mass produced reels for those who have specific demands..such as those involved in new forms of fishing like deep jigging or swordfishing at night etc.
(The Aussie equivalent would be Jack Erskine for example).

Try and assist/support these guys - because they work had to improve upon the basic designs, for those with specific individual needs! Who knows - what engineering improvements such guys might dream up over time - try and tap their creative talent... least thats my suggestion..

I well recall a guy on a web board some years back (from Texas) - who had a small home business stateside - overhauling Penn reels, and he was in great demand - guys from all over were sending their reels for overhauls and minor repairs etc and he was buying parts from Penn.

Just because he had the name Penn withing his small business name (Penn reels repairs service or some such) he was reputedly told by Penn to cease trading...and it caused a lot of angst for the guy himself and his clients....

All he was doing was making the product better, serviceable for your customers - in effect he was keeping your customers happy and loyal - your co should IMHO try and work with people like this - he specialised in Penn reels only - he was good at what he did too...

Anyway - they are my suggestions for what they are worth, I'll be getting a few more Penn O/head reels soon (next month) for the charter boat, and if they serve me as well as those Penns I already have, and have owned for 10 years plus, in many cases, then I'm sure I'll be another loyal customer for as long as you keep making good product!.

Your customer focus - has surprised me - very pleasantly!
Keep up the good work, you'll find out stuff at web boards from your clients & customers that no marketing / survey company can provide you - you'll get it straight from the horses mouth! As CEO - likely it'll be the best info you'll ever get. The danger with these survey type company's is they may tell you, what they think you want to hear, in order to get paid!

Sometimes - thats not what you NEED to hear!
Best of luck with it!

Cheers!

Just got back from 10-day long-range trip aboard American Angler out of San Diego.
Tested Torque 300 and Torque 200 extensively.
Got a 90-pound yellowfin tuna on T300, along with numerous 40 to 70 pound yellowfin tuna, wahoo and california yellowtail on both jigs and live bait with 50-pound mono topshot over 65-pound braid.
On T200 got lots of 20 to 40-pounders using 30 and 40-pound mono topshots over 50-pound braid, again on a mixture of jigs and bait.
Reels cast phenomenally, to go along with the already discussed excellent drag and cranking power.
Would be happy to answer questions.

Good to hear the report and wouldnt expect to hear anything else!
Damn I want your job though - If you ever want some field tests done in Aust waters fling a few this way, would be glad to help out lol :)

Now I want one even more though!

Hi Tunanorth,
Don't suppose you got any photos of it in action. Always nice to see a few rods/reels loaded up. :)

My stock order of these reels aren't to far away now.....just a matter of days....looking forward to it!

** Oceanside = Strudwick,Daiwa,Van Staal,Jigmaster Rods, Shimano,Penn etc...**

Owner/Operator
Oceanside Tackle and Marine
364 South Street,
O'Connor, Perth WA
Ph# 9337 5682
Fishing/Boating/Dive/Marine
** OPEN 7 DAYS **

I may be bias, having grown up in Lansdale,Pennsylvania and being brought up on Penn Reels.....But

I think it's fair to say Penn's CEO and his USA built reels are all class.