Optimax 115 - Engine Guardian System Alarm
OK Learned Ones.
Went out on Christmas and Boxing Day and Murphy's law, being what it is (things always happen at the worst possible time) - the previously faultless motor faulted!
No problem initially on Chrissy Day, then after starting the motor after a bit of fishing, as soon as I went over approx 1600 rpm (fast idle speed) the 'continuous' alarm sounded and the Engine Guardian System cut in and reduced the revs.
Now, knowing that RTFM is not a radio station, I consulted the Warning System of my manual and it tells me that there are five possible causes:
1 COOLING SYSTEM PROBLEM - Not Likely as I had a very healthy water tell tale.
2 OIL LEVEL IS CRITICALLY LOW - Not applicable as the OIL resevoir was full (always kept that way)
3 OIL PUMP FAILURE - Possible
4 ENGINE OVERSPEED - Also unlikely - the OB is propped correctly with a 3 blade SS vengence.
5 SENSOR OUT OF RANGE - not entirely sure what this means - but appears to be exceeding the guardian sensors at full WOT - so also unlikely.
So # 3 seems to be the only likely candiate. Another possible option may have to do with the oil filter/filtering system.
Any helpful and knowledgeable contributions would be greatly appreciated, including possible $s if it turns out to be option 3.
Donk is a Merc 2004 115 (Salwater) Optimax OB.
We were limited to very slow trolling speeds for the rest of the day and boxing day as any attempt to exceed approx 1600 rmp activated the alarm.
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Andy
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belt
Have you lifted the cowl and checked the belt that drives the air compressor and the alternator?
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Good thought Andy
You know, that's a very good thought Andy, much appreciated, that was replaced a while ago during the last service because of edge fray - how would that fit in with one of the alarm catagories above though?
Colin MOLLOY
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Andy
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optimax
I am a mercury mechanic and i had a customers engine do the same thing last week. Alarm and the smartcraft said check engine, do you have smart craft? with a broken belt it cant produce air pressure for the direct injection and will put the engine in gaurdian mode and an alarm. Just check that first. If not that its a trip to your dealer to put it on the computer.
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Yeah Murphies law NW - glad
Yeah Murphies law NW - glad you got that fixed - that won't be my problem - that's (water in fuel) one of 8 things that will give the 4 notes every 2 minutes alarm. All this technology and we have multi event alarm tones.
Colin MOLLOY
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PM Andy?
Andy any chance of PMing me your contact details please?
Colin MOLLOY
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Andy
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opti
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Ok
No worries Andy -didn't want to intrude on your Hol time (really therefore appreciate the input already) - just wanted a brief chat on smartcraft - bit more efficient that swapping posts
I'm no guri mechanic - but had a look at the belt and it's very clean and tight - no frays.
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Andy
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on smartcraft
I have a 135 optimax without smartcraft. For me i can find a better way of spending 2 grand on a pair on gauges. Not worth the cost in my opinion.
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What you are talking about
What you are talking about are seperate monetoring guages to the smartcraft integrated into Navman 4500/5500/Tranceiver I assume Andy?
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Andy
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Na mate i was talking about
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Analogue
Yes Andy that's what I thought you were talking about - the smartcraft digitals - my guages are analogue (sppedo/tach/fuel/hours) - the smartcraft technology is only wired up for the usual send of the fuel / consumption data to the integrated navman gear.
Colin MOLLOY
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ody
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Hi Ya,Colin, firstly
Hi Ya,
Colin, firstly understand I do not understand anything mechanical, but do not discount the lack of oil injection (your option #2) especially if you are making that judgement on the oil level in the resevior. My younger brother had exactly the same problem (warning alarm) and after having it checked out 3 times under waranty and being assured that there was no problem his motor or the injection system, the motor ceased due to lack of oil injection.
What you really need to check is how much you don't have - ie the consumption of oil - rather than how full tank is (if that makes sense). After the ceasure, brother realised that he should have recognised that the oil consumption was not what it should have been for the milles/hours he had been on the water.
Cheers.
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Thanks Ody
Colin MOLLOY
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ody
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Hi Ya,"... the Guardian
Hi Ya,
edited. Double post
Cheers.
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ody
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Hi Ya, "... the Guardian
Hi Ya,
"... the Guardian System attenuates revs/speed to avert that." Now you are talking a foreign language LOL.
But "...I was contemplating how little oil was being used ..." could be you've identified your problem. If it is, at least you caught it before it has done any real damage. At worst, all you have to do is mix/use a 2 stroke fuel insead of relying on the injection.
Cheers.
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Hmmm
Appreciate the thought Ody, but that would be a retrograde step and fraught with great danger if the current problem proved intermittent or the Guardian sensors are not telling the truth.
To salvage SOME fortune, at least the problem is consistent which means the diagnostic log should be screaming with a solution when it's hooked up.
Colin MOLLOY
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Update
Well Andy finally got hold of the local Mercury dealer down in Albany - he disclaims your (sincere) helpful advice on the belt (can PM his number if you want to debate it with him
) - so, hopefully, a few mins on the diagnostic will tell all!
Goes in next Wednesday (fully booked or closed till then).
Colin MOLLOY
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Opti Problem is Back!
The saga continues.....
) was not connected correctly and a small amount of water was leaking from the connection.
Well, took the boat down to the local Mercury dealer in Albany.
They hooked it up on their PC via the Merc diagnostics and found out that it was overheating. The mechanic found out that the flushing hose (didn't even know there was one
They put on a new clamp and advised they water tested it at different speeds and found all was ok and purged my alarm history.
Went out again yesterday, full of hope. As we were heading out of Oyster harbour, doing 8 knots (it's a long bowing channel) the alarm went off again !!! $%#@$#!!
Was OK once I got out of the harbour and opened her up to planing speed (about 3300). Then, when coming back in, the same alarm sounded when I exceeded 4200 rpm and again when attempting to do 8 knots back in Oyster harbour.
I'm at a loss - and will have to drag the boat all the way back to Albany tomorrow - more money and stuffing around!
Any ideas guys?
(Found an american site with a post on the same problem - awiting a reply - hopefully)
Colin MOLLOY
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Well...
There was a possibility that Andy was right but my dealer adamently denies this. (Sigh!)
I've spoken to another dealer in Balcatta - the service manager was very helpful with his time and suggestions which are:
1) The siv(filter) to the compressor is blocked.
2) Faulty water pump.
3) Faulty thermostat
4) Grommet to water pipe connection (block) is corroded.
5) Faulty sensor.
Awaiting call from my supplier.
Very frustrating!
Colin MOLLOY
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another posibility
Just got a PM from a bloke in the states - it was the oil level sensor in the reservoir under the cowling. Disconnect the light blue wire coming from the res. If the alarm quits, you've found the problem.
Colin MOLLOY
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Andy
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Battery connections
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Thanks Andy
Thanks Andy - now that you mention it, the mechanic did say that there was a low voltage incident in the log. Will include that with the other 50,000 possibilities.
Colin MOLLOY
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Andy
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warranty
how far out of warranty is your engine?
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Good Grief!
Good grief Andy now ya got me worried!
Purchased in December 2004. Had a look at the manual - pretty complex to wade through
What's your train of thought?
Colin MOLLOY
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Andy
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Had a 75hp not long back
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OK, thanks Andy (gulp)
OK, thanks Andy (gulp) anything else? I'll compile all these possibilities in a list (and probably have to bind it in hard back
)
Going in tomorrow.
Colin MOLLOY
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Update on the Opti
First of all, thanks for the PM Andy, I'll look into that!
Well, dragged (once again!) the boat down to Albany and went off to do some breamin in the Kalgan. Just plopped a gulp worm when the phone rang. Mechanic wanted me to go with him on the water test to see if we could replicate the two problems.
We launched and I sat dead 8 knots out of Oyster Harbour and back - not a squeek as far as the Post Fast Idle issue - the Guardian system and the control box alarm were silent.
However, took her for a run down the skie zone and this is where it got weird. The alarm in the throttle control box went off at a particular throttle lever point, but the guardian system didn't cut in (no attenuation of revs) and the alarm went off if the throttle control was moved past that point.
Went back and the mechanic hooked in the PC/Merc diagnostics and nothing came up.
I headed for for more bream fishing and eventually got a call later in the day from the mechanic that he had water tested the boat bypassing the throttle control with a piece of string (????) and no alarm!
So, at this stage, seems to be a problem with the throttle control. Only definitive way of knowing that is to swap to another throttle control.
Weird!
Consultation with Merc, by the mechanic and co, is occuring.
Colin MOLLOY
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Update
Just had a call from the mechanic. It would appear that the alarm at a certain throttle position is due to a faulty sensor in the throttle control. This would (I hope!) explain why the guardian system is not attentuating the revs and why it stops when the throttle is moved past that certain position and why the sound is throttle position based rather than rev based. (I Hope # 2!).
They've water tested the boat again with sustained course at post fast idle and that alarm seems to have well and truly disappeared. (I Hope # 3).
A new throttle sensor has been ordered and should arrive next Tuesday.
It is believed I should have reasonable success on claiming this under warranty.
BOM tells me it would be cr*p for boat fishing down here this weekend anyway.
I will be one VERY happy vegemite when all of this has been sorted!
Colin
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fullysik
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glad to hear that it finally
glad to hear that it finally looks like its all sorted out colin,that would have caused a few grey hairs i bet
,good luck
cheers ray
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Thanks Ray!
Thanks Ray - well wishes much appreciated - more like a few MORE grey hairs mate LOL
..anyway, they're ASH BLOND i tell you. LOL
Colin
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Update on Motor - &^%$$!!
(Extremely deep sigh!)
Well, the problems continue.
So unfortunately Ray matters are not yet settled.
Had a call from the mechanic yesterday. They ordered, fitted and tested the boat with a new throttle sensor and the problem still persists! So it's not the throttle sensor.
Even the mechanics contact at Mercury is baffled, so he (the Mercury guy) is going to confer with a couple of Mercury supa boffins.
Next step for me I reckon is a scarfice to the ancient gods.
Colin
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ody
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Hi Ya, Oh me, oh my. you
Hi Ya,
Oh me, oh my. you are doing well Colin. Thought I heard strange noises yesterday afternoon. Must have been you heavy sigh. LOL
Cheers.
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Nope
It was me swearing Ody mate, at the top of my lungs!
Colin
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At Last!!
At last! Problem solvered!!
Turned out to be the water pressure sensor - replaced and all smiko! Now just need some good weather!
No charges Andy
- all under warranty immediately by the Mercury guys. That's good, 'cause my out of work bank account aint looking to flash at the moment.
Colin
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ody
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Hi Ya, Finally!! Good to
Hi Ya,
Finally!! Good to hear.
Cheers.
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Colin Hay
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That's great Colin
That is a relief for you. Now I hope the weather gods smile on you. You must be hanging to get out there.
All the best with it,
Colin
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Thanks Ody & Colin - Fanging!
Thanks Ody and Colin. Yeah, it's been a VERY long process and, unless I'm fishing, I'm not blessed with the greatest amount of patience.
So it has been incredibly frustrating.
With all the sophisticated technology around, why oh why don't OB manufacturers make the pimary (guardian/management) and secondary (non critical) audio on alarms discrete to each issue. Would be so much easier to diagnose.
Hanging Colin? Mate, I'm absolutely FANGING!
Jason (the mechanic) is to be congratulated with his indefectabilty.
Colin
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Thanks guys
Thanks guys for all the info and the well wishes! May I NEVER have to repeat that!!
Bring on the fishin!
Colin
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