Out of date flare submissions for D o T
There is serious discussion going on in the Dept of Transport about rec fishers having their flare packs in date and not just in good condition.
They are taking submissions from those interested in putting their proposals in for the legislation changes so this can happen
The reason for this is to solve the problem of "what is good condition?" The inspector cannot tell if a flare is in good condition and the only way to find out is to set it off and then you are left with nothing.
My proposal is that we be allowed a 2 year extension on what is shown on the flare pack expiry date, so if it shows a 3 year date then we are allowed 5 years before getting a replacement set, same thing if it shows an expiry of 5 years then its 7 years for you to replace them.
Georgejungle
Posts: 354
Date Joined: 25/03/09
I think if its out of date
I think if its out of date you should replace it and keep the old ones as spares. That is the same legislation that commercial vessels abide by and i dont think it should be any less strict for recreational ,as this is a safety issue and its only $100 bucks a year just my 2 cents
carnarvonite
Posts: 8673
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Price
When you count the number of pensioners who go out in their dinghies pulling cray pots, dropping a line in etc just for a cheap feed when they're nearly on the bones of their a#@e another hundred buck a year on top of rego fee, ramp fees, trailer and car rego's [that seem to increase each year] it soon starts to add up.
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
just a question for DoT
how many out of d ate "in good condition" flares have the DoT tested to see if they function correctly or not. If there is no accurate records of these "functioning trials " then what historical fact are they using to bring in this legislation change. I know for a fact that a great many "out of date" flares and safety devices are subject to functioning trials that prove that these items if kept in sealed plastic envelopes will function correctly for many years after their expirey date.
How do I know this, as an as an explosive ordnance officer for dept of defence I have many times conducted trials on expired pyrotechnic devices and as a result of those trials extended there useful serviceable life quite a few times.So if DoT is going to use the date of expirey as a condeming feature for these devices let them show the results of functioning trials they have conducted to prove their point.
If you feel safe by getting rid of your out of date pyrotechnics and replacing them with new then by all means do so, but you watch the new proposed requirements bring in a heafty fine for having out of date life saving stores onboard your boat.
For my view keep them sealed in a plastic envelop out of direct sun light and out of extreme heat and they will function for many many years after expirey date.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8673
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Inspectors
The word that I got was that its to take the decision away from the inspector on whether its in good or bad shape, "covering their a@#e" in case they let some go through and fail in an emergency and get sued in a court of law!!!
Willlo
Posts: 1490
Date Joined: 07/10/11
All safety gear is a rip off,
All safety gear is a rip off, i dont mean that its not needed just that if the powers that be had any idea they would at least make it GST free. As long as they havent had water on them and are in a sealed container and within a couple of years expiry i cant see a problem.Sounds like its all to hard for the fun police to work out so are putting it in black and white to make their job easier. Personally i have the last 4 sets of flares i have bought and if they didnt have an expiry date on them you wouldnt be able to tell the difference. Agree with Carnarvonite all these costs start to add up between the greenie mongrels and the tax man the future looks pretty good for the fish. George where do you get your flares for a $100 i have paid around $150 for a set of offshore flares?
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Perry Home
Posts: 434
Date Joined: 07/10/10
Good Call Carnarvonite
Yes the costs do add up & continue to add up - it'd be good to see some of the boat fishing licence money directed toward Sea Rescue organisations each year for the great job they do (maybe it does already?) My feeling is the majority of older people who have the experience in boating (most of them) know their limitations with their vessel size.
Look at the scenario in Metro Waters for example - how many boats are rescued each year with many of them not having a 406 Epirb cause they aren't required to? Change that rule before you change the flare scenario!
Rob H
Posts: 5812
Date Joined: 18/01/12
megalodon and Perry pretty
megalodon and Perry pretty much have it. If anything, flares to be in date only if not carrying EPIRB as they will be your primary and maybe only acceptable Distress method.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8673
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Epirb
Your epirb efficiency can be governed by many factors, like one we had a couple of years back where the bloke in the water stuffed it into his jacket so he wouldn't lose it, every time the satelite came over it gave a different co ordinate having the searcher keep swapping locations until the plane fitted with infra red spotted them.
The cheaper model give a supposed radius of 500 metres to 5 km and in rough weather very hard to spot without flares to pinpoint them exactly. Another point, how many of you have your epirb stored with your flares, none I bet , which is good because it gives you two chances of finding one of them if your boat goes down quickly and then you will require the one you have to work properly if you are going to be rescued.
Always fascinated me on why there is no requirement of an epirb between Hilliarys and Rotto, still a big expanse of water to try and find someone by flares alone.
Georgejungle
Posts: 354
Date Joined: 25/03/09
willo i was using $100 as a
willo i was using $100 as a ball park mate but u dont buy them every year so if you buy a set for $150 every couple years then thats about a hundred a year. If you can buy craypots fishing lures echo sounders and rods and reels then you can buy a set of bloody flares.
I also agree these items should be GST free and as cheap as possible .
Willlo
Posts: 1490
Date Joined: 07/10/11
Yeah no worries George,
Yeah no worries George, thought you may have found somewhere a little cheaper to pick them up.
Call Sign - BZ785
Haynes Hunter Prowler CC
Doooma
Posts: 791
Date Joined: 05/12/09
Speaking of Epirbs
Speaking of Epirbs....
Mine has just expired (the battery)... Can you just get the battery replaced or does the whole unit have to be disposed of, and another bought?
Cant really afford another $400 !!!
carnarvonite
Posts: 8673
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Cost
By the time you pay to have the battery replaced its not that much different to buying a new one. Its not something you can do yourself because they have to have the new expiry date added to it
Paul H
Posts: 2104
Date Joined: 18/01/07
Here in SA you have to have
Here in SA you have to have flares that have not expired or you risk copping a fine. I also have my last 3 lots of expired flares to use first (coast guard told me there was likely nothing wrong with them)--. Tried to donate them for demonstration night but was told - we don't do them anymore due to insurance issues - pity I think anyone doing a lot of boating would benefit from firing a flare and learning how to do it rather than leaving it until your in the poo. There is now no oportunity to do this unless you go to an Adelaide United soccer match :-)
for the standard smoke/night flare 4 pack here in SA you can get them for around $60-70. which is not a huge expense over 3 years (this is all the tinny brigade need here). Parachute flares for offshore add another $150 for two. it is an expense but a nessecary one.
Cheers
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Rod P
Posts: 725
Date Joined: 20/05/08
In NSW they must be in
In NSW they must be in date.
I don't really have a problem either way but i think there are other laws that also need looking at. Like no Anchor or life jackets required on the river. How stupid is that one.
i was playing around with some flares a few months ago and the oldset scabiest looking flares all still went of no hassles.
squidder
Posts: 457
Date Joined: 03/09/10
carnarvonite's on the money
with this one. I have 4 sets of "out of date" ex commercial and standard recreational flares, in perfect condition. Occationally some of the oldest ones are tested way inland at a mates farm, and believe it or not, they work a treat.
How much Safety gear is enough.
Maybe some of the people that go to sea should be more aware of the workings of the craft they are in and not leave it up to the Skipper.
Is it true that Metro boaties do not have to carry an EPIRB.
sea-kem
Posts: 15036
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Maybe some of the people that
Maybe some of the people that go to sea should be more aware of the workings of the craft they are in and not leave it up to the Skipper.
That's a good point Squidder. I mentioned this before that when I did my skippers ticket that the instructor said it's up to the skipper to 'induct' evryone that comes on board re the safety gear. As the skipper is liable for eveyone on board. I have two sets of flares ot of date but in very good condition. I've also tried out my older flares made in the early 80's and they worked fine. As long as they're dry and visually in good condition in a sealed bag there's nothing wrong with them.Now to contradict myself I also don't have a problem if a reasonable replacement time limit is introduced ie 5yrs.
Love the West!
Perry Home
Posts: 434
Date Joined: 07/10/10
Air tight container
What also amazes me is the fact that the placcy pack of flares really has no floatation attached, or at least some form of buoyancy. I'm surprised Rec Skippers Ticket does not recommend that flares be in a air tight screw top sealed container - at least then if the worst case scenario does come about the flares and epirb are floating next to you as opposed to being in an upturned boat or one that is rapidly sinking below you to the point that all you've got time to do is get the PFD 1's out and on. Time can pass pretty quickly when these situations arise.