Proposed Kimberley gas plant.
Submitted by fishintruckie on Thu, 2010-09-16 20:00
Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on the proposed gas plant in the Kimberley? If you watch the T.V. adds its the worst environmental disaster that hasnt happened yet. Will it affect the local wildlife as much as they say or is it just scare mongering? Whats your opinion? What do the locals think? Is this gas plant a good thing or a bad thing?
Cheers, Dave.
Dale
Posts: 7930
Date Joined: 13/09/05
Dead against it, pristine
Dead against it, pristine areas and needs to be left alone. Barnett needs to be shot for this.
Cheers
Dale
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
MJ
Posts: 362
Date Joined: 23/06/09
Tragic
Prices Point is going to be ruined if it goes ahead - that whole peninsula north of Broome is such a special place.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8667
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Greed
They dont give a toss for the environment, more pristine areas bulldozed so Barnett and his crowd can rake in more dollars.
Same thing will happen with the coal mine down south regardless of the nimby's protesting.
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
Barnett already needed to be
Barnett already needed to be shot for bunch of stuff ;)
Colin Hay
Posts: 10407
Date Joined: 23/10/07
This whole situation comes down to Peter Garrett and a
bunch of stupid Greenies. The companies which wanted to develop the gas fields had spent years and 10 of millions of dollars doing environmental studies before selecting sites that would have the least effect on the environment and the local people.
Then out of knowhere, pushed by a bunch of no knowledge NIMBYs and green politicians looking to keep their seats at the next election, Garrett decided that all developments would be put together in one spot and that he would ignore all the environmental studies and EPA reports that had been done previously.
The companies that want to develop the gas fields don't want to be at James Price Point, but they have been threatened by the government that if they don't they will lose their licences covering the gas fields.
It is like the idiots who decided that everything on the Burrup should be put on Maitland Estate - despite knowing that that area has a tendancy to get flooded if a large storm surge accompanies a cyclone.
It is all about supping to the minority to win the votes of the people who have no idea what is involved.
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Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
How much is enough when you
How much is enough when you lock up a region as big as 50% of Europe???
We have so bloody little of WA developed and the green freaks want to lock more up!
Yes it has impacts, MAN has impacts, either remove man from the planet or live with the impacts.
Look at the so called " original land protectors"...
60,000 years ago Australia was lush, green and had 20 x more animal species, then came the aboriginal peoples descendants, and FIRE! Fire changed the grass lands, the plains, the forest and destroyed 80% of the habitat. Same goes for NZ where hunting by Maori killed off many species and then when it became to hard to hunt, they burned off the forest to hunt by fire! Same goes for Christmas Islands, which where a tropical paradise reduced to a barren landscape by the quest for power, logs to move the massive stone carvings and hunting food. ( dam good national geographic doco on it. Look it up!)
They totally transformed the continent by scrub burning, hunting by fire storm and also taking out most of the large marsupials, so don’t tell me they lived in harmony with the land.
( go study the papers on the continental fauna and flora changes by man induced fire in Australia.
Australia needs development, and your resources no matter where they are, are going to have an impact on the planet. The task is to do it in a responsible manner, take out a reasonable portion of land and environment for nature conservation and business.
As for the wacky ad’s they portray the image that there is bugger all sanctuary and protective zones in WA’s north, bloody hell…..most of the Pilbara north west to far north Kimberly is either under some form of protection arrangement or to remote to be accessed by the average Joe unless he has $6000 per person to go on the luxury ecco cruises etc.
The gas plant must go somewhere, if you against it, start eating raw food and using a push bike to remove your need for gas and the carbon powered economy keeping you warm, happy and watching TV!
JMO views
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
pale ale
Posts: 1755
Date Joined: 02/01/10
Easter Island????
Easter Island????
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
a bit of reading on why there no trees there today!
yip you right Easter Islands...lol.. I got them mixed up :-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Island
http://www.primitivism.com/easter-island.htm
quote"
The history of Easter Island is not one of lost civilisations and esoteric knowledge. Rather it is a striking example of the dependence of human societies on their environment and of the consequences of irreversibly damaging that environment. It is the story of a people who, starting from an extremely limited resource base, constructed one of the most advanced societies in the world for the technology they had available. However, the demands placed on the environment of the island by this development were immense. When it could no longer withstand the pressure, the society that had been painfully built up over the previous thousand years fell with it.
"
And so they raped it till it killed them off... in fact there was not enough wood at the end to even build rafts / boats to escape this dead island.
So do native land owners know best.... not always. :-)
dam good reading this book
A Green History of the World: The Environment and the Collapse of Great Civilizations by Clive Ponting
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
carnarvonite
Posts: 8667
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Inland
Why don't they move the whole pland 10 k's or so inland and only have a jetty on the coast? They have to pump it hundreds of Ks to get it to land so whats another 10,
Its only the thin edge of the wedge, once one industry starts then it will be ok for the rest to come in and next thingyou know there will be dozens of wharves and more pollution than the rest of OZ puts out.
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
as a process engineer with
as a process engineer with oil and gas design experience I can tell you we like to build as far from the sea as we can because of corrossion, high winds, storm surge and risk to costal water ways. Idealy you want to be inland about 15~20km, so you can still access sea water cooling for your systems and have a short land pipeline.
BUT the goverment and local twits decide where you plan foot print will be. Only time you want to be close to the coastline is when you refine and fill ships again, then you need to be with in 5km max of the sea, to preven double handling and pumping costs.
It's easy to say no to development, but then you still want jobs and good salaries and luxury cars and boats and tv and etc... but it's always NIMBY!
You can mine and develop oil&gas in natural enviroments and in the middle of natural parks. just look at ERA in the Kakadu NT. Perfect example of win-win to all and the locals and industry. Also very little FIFO there, as a great little town to stay in and loads for families to do.
It's all about keeping the balance.
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Colin Hay
Posts: 10407
Date Joined: 23/10/07
Just look at Barrow Island Tony
Chevron has been operating an oil field there for 50 years and it is the only island in the area that still has all of the original flora and fauna.
Leading environmental groups have labelled it "Australia's Ark" and have given Chevron numerous awards for their work there.
Then the same groups all started jumping up and down when Chevron was seeking approval for its Gorgon project and stated that there should be no development on what is an A class reseves and that the island should be returned to nature.
Great thinking. Who is going to stop the rats, cats and foxes from getting on the island if Chevron's team of environmental scientists aren't there.
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Colin Hay
Posts: 10407
Date Joined: 23/10/07
It wouldn't really matter where you put it in the end as
someone or group will say they don't like it.
We would all be able to be driving around in hydrogen vehicles now, or in the very near future. What a great way to cut back on greenhouse gases, but the greenies and NIMBYs don't want hydrogen stations in neighbourhoods.
It is like wind farms. They do have some environmental value, but no-one wants the wind turbines near their place.
Then there is the Kimberley tidal power plans. Sounds like a good renewable idea, but once again minority groups are saying they don't want it.
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Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
more enrgy wasted every day
more enrgy wasted every day in NT / Kimberly tidal power surges than the whole of Aus uses in a year!! FACT.
will it ever happen, NEVER IN OUR LIFE TIME,
why, cause we have a 3 year goverment system, a devide and conquor state federal system, plus a tradional land ownership rights system that promotes greed & NIMBY attitudes with a " give me" hand held out!.
Australia has the highest rate of sunshine in the world for a country, yet one of the lowest usages of solar power!
Australia has the best shore lines in the world for wind power, yet no federal or state support for it!
Australia has the best tidal power possibilities in the world, yet no active plan, research or support federal or state to achieve anything with it...
WTF..
makes you think, actualy tells you we "don't think" as a nation!!!!
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Likc
Posts: 361
Date Joined: 09/08/09
Go nuclear, if you ask me.
Go nuclear, if you ask me. Clean continuos energy, which is easy to manage to manage peaks and higher/lower demand. We might not be able to use nuclear waste now, but we might be able to in 10 or 20 years, so store it safely till then and start development. And at the end of the day, why I can’t have AA size battery power cell plugged in my car and bit bigger for my house? Because there is way too many people making living by protesting against nuclear energy for “some” reasons, even more people living of oil and gas production and consumption. It would make a lot of people unhappy if somebody showed up and said “I’ve got this mobile phone sized thingy and it will run whole suburb for 5 years or so..” That’s why there is so little money being put in development of new energy sources. We have to pump all the oil out and burn it firs and then we might thing about something else. But our planet will be buggered by then…
And also, governments don’t really want people to be energy independent. It’s much easier to put tax on litre of fuel than on wind or solar. So I guess they want us to thing that they are doing the right thing, but behind the closed door, it’s a different story.
But it might all be just my paranoia.
Colin Hay
Posts: 10407
Date Joined: 23/10/07
The big problem with nuclear (apart from the issue of
what to do with the waste) is that a nuclear plant has to be located near a big source of water. In Australia that means the ocean. Economics also means that the plant needs to be located near a major energy market. That means a city and no-one is going to allow a nuclear plant to be built near Perth.
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Likc
Posts: 361
Date Joined: 09/08/09
And that’s the problem
And that’s the problem with nuclear, that “no-one” will allow it here. Why?... Close to the city would mean some 100 km north or south, maybe more. There are many nuclear plants in Europe quite close to the cities. Term close is bit different in European scales. And apart from few people unlucky enough that they can see it in a distance from their window, everyone is happy. Except anti nuclear people, offcourse.
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
I grew up with in 60km of a
I grew up with in 60km of a nuke plant, never worried me.
In fact my folks now live even closer to it and can see it ever second day or so as they drive to town!
I'd rather have a nuke on my door step than that sh!t spewing monster of an abortion district we have along the Sound from Freo all the way down to Garden Island. More harmful polutants coming out that Coburn Sound area into the air and see than any gas plant or nuke plant or anything elese I have seen.
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Likc
Posts: 361
Date Joined: 09/08/09
Same here, I’ve had 2 in
Same here, I’ve had 2 in 200km radius + 2 research reactors 100kms and never bothered me.
Shorty
Posts: 1549
Date Joined: 10/05/08
It does not matter where
It does not matter where they put it , folks will oppose it,,
A lot are hippys/greenie types,,we work so they don't have to, job creation are something they would not think about cause they have never had one,,
But putting it further inland for be a great idea,,
Brucesta
Posts: 1721
Date Joined: 29/05/09
I will put it out there now,
I will put it out there now, i work for woodside so take that as you will. Having visited James Price Point, there really isn't much there. I don't know exactly where the site will go so i am not aware of what access will be lost to the area etc.
All the recreation that happens out there is on the coast on the beach/headlands etc, The plant will be off the coast by a small margin i would think, so the actual area being lost would be only the loading facilities that would have a 500m exclusion zone so max of 1.5km of coastline you can now not use.
having lived in Karratha for a very long time you do get used to seeing a gas plant on the horizon. look at Cockburn sound? that is littered with plants along the whole coast but you all don't seem to mind. 51ha is all that is being used out of god knows how many millions of Ha of land there is.
Sorry but in ten years time you won't see the locals complaining when Woodside injects funds back into the community. Take Karratha for example, next week there is a new child care centre opening that woodside put 3 million towards, they also helped with attracting doctors and specialist to the region, school scolorships, after hours tutouring for the kids. It's not a bad thing people and it's clean energy not like coal or oil it's actually good for the environment, think about it as you stare at your PC.
Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target
Colin Hay
Posts: 10407
Date Joined: 23/10/07
I think most of the gas developers would agree with you Colin
We just have to keep groups with secret agendas out of the political decisions.
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Shorty
Posts: 1549
Date Joined: 10/05/08
Good point about Cockburn
Good point about Cockburn Sound, thats my main fisdhing area and i don't take any notice of the industry that runs halfway along the place,,
Colin Hay
Posts: 10407
Date Joined: 23/10/07
And Brad, Jay and crew aren't doing too badly
up Karratha way.
Moderator. Proud member of the Fishwrecked "Old Farts". Make sure your subscribed to Fishwrecked Reeltime http://fishwrecked-reeltime.com/
Brucesta
Posts: 1721
Date Joined: 29/05/09
we lost probably the best
we lost probably the best land based beach near Karratha when Pluto went ahead, a place i spent many weekends at fishing, camping and diving but i didn't cry foul over it i just went elsewhere, if fact having the gas plant there probably protects the place more because we can't get there to fish.
I just shake my head. I guess i'll just watch my back when i end up in Broome working at the plant residential, i'll be coming home in civvies and in my own car.
Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target
Marky
Posts: 420
Date Joined: 01/05/09
haha, yea I already get some
haha, yea I already get some weird looks when I walk thru the shops with the Woodside shirts I have accumulated over the years.... A few people start staring then i'll realise I have Woodside written all ova me.... opps I forgot to change shirts again..
All good I think the town is split about it at the moment.. some against and some for. and some couldnt care less.... Local businesses/real estate will be rubbing their hands together thats for sure...
Just hope they dont want to shut down too big of an area off from fishing around there because its excellent diving and fishing right there and offshore from there...
Dale
Posts: 7930
Date Joined: 13/09/05
And where is Adele Carles on
And where is Adele Carles on this? Jumping up and down at Marg's about a coal mine, but doesn't even give up a whimper on James Price Point. Get real lady, you talk the talk but hop around on one leg for the walk.
JMO
Cheers
Dale
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
Shorty
Posts: 1549
Date Joined: 10/05/08
Adele Carles ? She is tied
Adele Carles ?
She is tied up with Troy at the moment,she will get back to you on that,,
mikestan
Posts: 92
Date Joined: 12/01/10
cant wait
hanging for a job up there been all round building gas plants but never broome. cant wait to earn the coin and fish the weekends up there should be good. all in all tho there will be that much red tape to go through it will be more stringent than most gas plants in what it can and cant do.
Billcollector
Posts: 2080
Date Joined: 16/05/09
Our prime sailfish ground is
Our prime sailfish ground is directly out from this area so it's a bit of an unknown what will happen to it when they start to dredge 18 million cubic metres of spoil to install the shipping channel, half of this spoil they at present have no idea where to put it. Surely there is deep water somewhere else that doesn't require that amount of dredging. That part of the coast is only about 14mtrs deep up to ten kilometres out. All the talk at the moment is about one gas plant but what other industry will move in when its running and how much more of the coast will be destroyed by any expansion. As Marky said our businesses want it to happen but a large amount of long term residents don't want to see the town change from a tourism driven economy.
Personally I don't want it to happen but Colin Barnett is hell bent at any cost to see it happen. Woodside have bucket loads of money to throw around for anyone they affect but that won't be enough to compensate our lifestyle if they F#@k our fishery
Brucesta
Posts: 1721
Date Joined: 29/05/09
the spoil is a good question
the spoil is a good question for sure, shouldn't affect the sailfish too much as i'm sure your a little deeper for them, might be murky thats about the worst of it, they have dredged and dug out trenches for pipelines and no affects here, i still get good hauls of snapper in close.
You'll have channel markers to fish near, a pipline covered in rock that will become a long artificial reef, our pipelines here are a very popular spot for locals with snapper, reds, coral trout and others coming off them. I guess there isn't really any deep water near broome full stop along that coast and unfortunantly they have to be reasonably close to a major centre for travel and transfers.
One thing i would like to see is restrictions on times for the construction guys to come to town. thankfully being 60kms away they shouldn't be in town a whole lot like karratha, needless to say Saturday nights are when you avoid the pub as the boys can really let their hair down and carry on like clowns. I feel that if they get safety drummed into them so much at work they just leave site and do what they want with little consequence. Might be biased and this is a general view but i've seen some shocking behaviour by so called adults over the years here, shit my mrs was offered one night 600 dollars to go out in a boat with some guys topless and serve them beer all the while i'm right next to him as he asked.
Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target
Billcollector
Posts: 2080
Date Joined: 16/05/09
Our Sailfish can be as close
Our Sailfish can be as close as 500metres from shore right along that coastline and out to about 20kms . Two options with the pipeline at the moment either put it to the north and encase it with rock, or Woodsides prefered option is to trench through the middle of the sailfish grounds and bury it. They have no idea as to the effects this will have.
As you said and I know a few people in Karratha that say the same the unsavoury behavior of cashed up wankers out for a good time at the expense of others is one issue that needs to be sorted. This town is full of tourists for a large part of the year now so the last thing a lot of people here want is a bad reflection on the town due to that issue.
Brucesta
Posts: 1721
Date Joined: 29/05/09
indeed, we don't need any
indeed, we don't need any more idiots trying to whisper in the ears of a croc :)
I look forward to chasing some sails up there if all goes well in the next few years.
Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target
pale ale
Posts: 1755
Date Joined: 02/01/10
Bloody FIFO wankers. Now
Bloody FIFO wankers. Now they are gonna prohibit alcohol in the Karratha airport. Too many drunken pricks flying out cant handle their piss.
Dale
Posts: 7930
Date Joined: 13/09/05
Yeah I know what you mean, I
Yeah I know what you mean, I used to get to the airport at 07:30 for the flight home after my nights and there was always people drinking at the tables. And they would be up and down for the whole flight back to Perth. Same guys every time too.
Cheers
Dale
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
it's not just a FIFO thing
it's not just a FIFO thing mate, toss in sports clubs tours, bikie gang trips and seven some tour package operations.
Trouble is ASTRALIA has become the land of the weak arm of the law and judges with too much soicial engineering books under their bums!
you behave in a rowdy or drunk way in the USA or Germany or any of the major first world countries and
A, you'd loose your job if you where in uniform
B, you'd spend the night in the lock-up
C, get a no-fly ban put on you
D, get fined a hell of a lot for minor offence and up to 6 months in real prison ( not these bloody holiday camps we have here in Aussie land)
Mate of mine in Florida has an employee that spent 2 weeks in a Southerns State jail for a minor drinking offence. He said it was the most scary time of his life, shotguns on all the guards, razor wire and a shoot to kill if you try to escape rule!!!! No thats what jail is ment to be, and toss in the boot-camps - chain gangs.
you act like a crim, get treated like a crim... NOT some bloody bogan hero.
And it's not about hanldy your p!ss, it's about handling your self image and respect to others that Australia has lost.
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Berin
Posts: 150
Date Joined: 15/07/10
Agreed
We have evolved from a nanny state into a nanny nation.
I feel sorry for the police, why bother locking people away when they will be out again tomorrow ? I have been a victim of crime and saw the scum walk away free after some smarmy lawyer found one of the million loopholes available.
I am against the plant because I am left with little or no doubts about how it will be handled. We have a great history of wrecking natural areas here, it has become a tradition.
My problem is.....we still need a lot of new infrastructure across the nation. We need to handle it a LOT better.
so I am for...and against....if that makes sense.