well done to stand up and sort it out. Why is it that the Qantus unions go for them yet the same workers at Virgin in the same industry doing the same job get lesser wages and no union involvment.
no they don't, it's all been blown up by the info that Qantas has been feeding the media as to the average wage of their employees, i.e. 170000PA average for an engineer!!!!! now that's a load of BS. Virgins engineers are getting paid a better wage, pilots are now on a par, the only difference is in their ground handeling, and lets try and compare CEO salaries, 5M for Allan compared to other airline CEOs. e.g Cathay who are a much larger airline, and are performing better, only gets paid 1.4M!!!
Also please don't say it's a performance bonus.....with share prices taking a dive, and no dividents paid to shareholders for the past 4 years!!!!!
Please don't give some half-hearted comment about something that you know nothing about without having all the facts and figures!!!
a pilot with Skywest, senoir with 25 years flying experience gets $96k a year FACT, seen his payslip and was shocked. Qantas long hall pilots are on par with Cathy Pacific, as our one friends son is a Cathy pilot and we know what abll park he earns. Only cheap asian budget arilines are paying less to staff and you can fly Tiger or Air Garuda ( what ever the spelling etc) anytime you willing to put up with the service.
Air New Zealand is paying better in local take home money to their pilots, cause they have a weaker currency that the Aus $ and so it discounts their paypackets as well.
Qantas is oversized and pays to much for it's services due to bad management and planning etc... Yes they got some of the highest paid workers in the airline world now, cause we now at 1:1 with US$ and when we where at 0.7:1 for the US $ then they where competitive.
As much as I'd like to support a national carrier being competitive, my gut says their is more corperate greed in this pot of stew than we are lead to beleave!.
The bigger question is, are Australian workers over paid in world comparitive scheme of things and do they expect far too much for their muscle labour that it is worth on the world market.
Thats more what this is about....
Have we become a socilistic wealthy greed driven ecconomy, with basic skill workers needing very high slaries to survive in high housing markets, expensive petrol and goods and food etc...
is this the first sign of the Aussie greed monger killing the first of the last Golden Geeses in the pen?
this is only going to end baldy in 21 days time, even with Fair Work Australia now in play.
rule number one of business:
NEVER EVER USE YOUR CUSTOMERS AS PAWNS IN YOUR UNION SQUABBLES AND ALIENATE THE PEOPLE THAT PAY YOU FOR SERVICES...
(bit like crying victory when the Yanks use a cruise missile to kill one terror suspect and take out an entire village of innocent people they say they liberating….) maybe Joyce is using old Pres Bush advisors for his company warfare strategy these days????
go learn a few lessons from the past Mr Joyce, yes I sympathise with Qantas and the union battles, but shooting your customer base in the head was plain stupid and will cut your Australians flying Qantas from less than 16% at the moment to much less.
Thanks God my wife was on Air New Zealand on the weekend coming back from LA, she said she saw many many agree Aussies and Tourists trying to book in on Sat night at LAX! and stranded there.
This was a shot from the hip by Qantas board and Joyce, and it did not go the way they planned when Julia did not pull the pin first thing Sat on the unions and then to put the entire country in a bad light with people flying out at CHOGM too boot was just foolish too.
if they wanted to play lock out and ground, then any analyst worth his salt in a company would have said get GHOGM away and then you got Julia’s full attention, not embarrass her and the country leaving delegates and heads of state high and dry...
Don't worry Tony those delegates were sorted out quick smart, they're not part of the prolatariate. Like the factory units where I am three of them getting broken into on the weekend because scumbags new all the cops were busy looking after the silver spoon brigade.
What would have been better if he just agreed to there demands. Then when the airline goes under like Ansett us the tax payers could pay all the wages for the poor overpaid union workers..
Good on Joyce.. Big balls and worth every cent he is paid IMHO.
Can someone confirm Joyce's income. A report in the West was saying he has taken a pay cut and not taken his bonus money either..Just what was reported.
For the record if someone wanted to pay me $5million to be hated by half of Aussie i think id consider it?
For my understanding i see this as the start of the way things are going to go. We will soon be paying the price of a global economy. We can't have a national airline when everyone in the nation only buys on price.
If a company from India was to fly into Perth and then Fly onto Sydney for half the price Aussies would not think twice about buying that cheap ticket for themselves. Guess what that's what is happening so our local business have to change. So they are taking there industry offshore. That's what our buying public has done but it does make me laugh when local people them get upset at losing there jobs. We are riding on a big Amerigo round and sadly it looks like were on the down hill run ATM.
My prediction is next it will be mining jobs will be lost to overseas workers. Yes i know that is already happening but i think it could snow ball. Alot of Aussies will be working for overseas companies in our own town and i can't see anyway out of it.
soon you will just have Resources jobs and people supplying them with services and good. Everything else will be outsourced and overseas, from your kettle to car to airline to food next...
ps do you think most of the mining & oil/gas jobs are in Aussie hands at the moment??? I'd say No, if you add up the Kiwi's, SAFFA's, POMS, Yanks and Candians, then you would see it's close to 50% of work forces now from overseas already, even if they on 457 visa or perminent residencacy etc...
That was one of the worst desicions I have even seen from a CEO of a International company.. The last thing Qantas could afford was more bad publicity, with there drop in standards in all areas and attitude of not seeming to care what there customers think anymore I just cant understand how this desicion could have been made. It is Alan Joyce that has done the untold damage to Qantas, the company is bleeding money, bad desicions are being made constantly.... suprised he still has his job. How he thought if was a good idea to ruin the plans of 68,000 PAYING customers ill never know...
He was awarded a 71% pay rise, Saturday he grounded the fleet, Now I am no legal eagle but: If the CEO knew at the AGM that they were going to ground the airline, but neglected to inform the shareholders, is it either/both a breach of the ASX listing rules (not informing of a significant event) and/or a breach of the corps law, prohibiting a responsible officer from acting against the interests of ALL shareholders equally?
It is a known/proven fact that this was in plan before the AGM friday and shareholders, (aka) owners were not informed of this intended procedure....Illegal?
Open sky policy with a feral union movement that can do whatever they like and destroy a buisness with their outragious demands while we the traveling publik have access to cheap airfares from oversees carriers that pay peanuts to their support crew?
Or a protection plan but with a much dearer airtravel ticket base?
And why are the ones condemming the CEO of Quantas but are now shopping oversees instead of in our Australian shops?
Do we not want the retail employees to have decent australian wages?
Do we not want the Australian boat manufacturing/retail industrie workers to have full employment and fat pay packages?
So.,, why the 2 different standards wanting your cake and eat it as well?
Qantas has two very cossy direct routes to South Africa and USA ( LA) that they been killing for years.
The opening up of cheaper fares flying longer distances to the same destinations is the thing the industry should be looking at.
Two things cost an airline 80% of it's cash flow. Wages and Fuel. And if you flying the shortest route to USA, UK and RSA, than anyone else, and can't compete with people flying a complete extra sector to Singapore or New Zealand or Hong Kong , even Dubia and they cheaper, then the ecconomics needs to be looked at carefully for the fatal flaw.
I'd like to see the cost break down on Qantas, maybe tonight when I have the time I will look at last years annual general report and shareholders review.
With a stron Aussie dollar their fuel bill should have dropped and thier overseas costs reduced in amount. Local costs could not have climbed more than 10% max and wages less than 7% max.
So where is the loss leader coming from?
it's not fuel, it's not off shore service costs and airport fees, it's not repayments on loans for planes as they also dollar hedged at the moment, so whats it ????
With a strong dollar, Qantas should have been coining it, as local wages where still the same, only revenue is Aussie dollars would have dropped due to exchange rates
It really is a tough economic climate at the moment, I think most will opt for the cheapest ticket rather then supporting Aus companies. Unfortunately this is Human nature and we all want the best bang for our hard earned coin.
BTW unions and the way they go about business in this country should have their heads pulled out from their arses and shown what hard work can achieve.
Demetriuo actually deserves his, dont think anyone could do any better at running the afl than him... just look at how ridiculous he makes the NRL look. haha
hasn't hurt their share price, small increases both days and decent number traded too. Might reflect what most Aussies think of the whole situation, apart from those who got caught at the airport. At the end of the day most people will choose their carrier based on price and schedule, this small hiccup won't hurt them too much in the long run
@Till - He probably doesnt deserve to be paid as much as he's getting, but overall I think he does a pretty solid job. The AFL runs better than any other sporting organisation in Oz imo.
Wasnt the Qantas share price at $1 something today? Less than half of what it was before this little spat... thought i read that somewhere.
this doesn't support your last comment other than yes it was at a $1 something today. This graph suggests to me that Joyce's decision has strengthened shareholder confidence.
For sure, but its best to remember what the sharemarket shows.
Joyce runs a profitable business, and its his job to make money for the shareholders in the short term, and nothing else.
They don't mind him putting his hand in the till for a bit more, because there is just one of him, and he is on their side.
They support his decision to deny employees CPI-based pay rises, because there are a lot of them, and lets face it, they're probably not all shareholders either.
All that happened was he had a petulant dummy spit, just like a spoilt child.
Joyce wanted the unions / workers to stop the slow roasting of Qantas by repeated industrial action and wanted to proceed down the arbitration path. The unions refused and he took the action that he did. Fair Work Australia has now reinforced what Joyce wanted in the first place. I'm glad someone has balls these days. jmo.
Both sides to blame in this debacle. What they need to do is sit down with level heads and sort it out. I back the pilots 100% Ausralian pilots only on Qantas planes.The baggage boys deserve a pay rise to keep up with the CPI. It can be done as Qantas like Telstra is still a very powerful player in it's game. And still profitable.
Have just read wikipedia on Alan Joyce pre quantas employment ,worked for Aer Lingus in various positions, then worked for ansett in various. both those air lines went belly up if my memory serves me correctly. I think a hugh amount of damage has been done to the quantas brand and Alan Joyce did what he did with the full backing of the board so all of what has transpired should not be laid at his feet the quantas board has said to it's customers "suck it up princesses" and get over it
To quote a great aiviator (bomber Harris)" people have said that you can't bomb them into submission,well we shall see"it no remains to be seen if the unions have been bombed into submission
I read it yesterday that that Joyce doesn't get a 71% pay increase as everyone is sprucing. He will only get that if he manages to turn the company around and gets his targets met by next year. All reports say its almost impossible and if he does good on him. He will have saved a huge company from going under.
The qantas decisions of late have just cost 250 million to our country already. ATM Joyce has the government doing exactly what he wants them to do (maybe he'd like it down a but quicker, like before he had to ground the airline). As i said if he doesn't pull this off Qantas will more than likely be no more..Were will that leave our country?
I pray he gets his full bonus to be honest..For all our sakes.
Yes ROD that is correct , but do not let a bit of creative shit stirring by leftwing media and roque union thugs get between a sensationally false representation of the truth .
He took a 30% pay cut and if he makes the parameters then through the share issue will get the BONUS!
That is not a weekly wage like a lot of peeps are basing their reaction on!
as I said earlier, if you can't make a killing on closed routes you code share with partners-in-crime, with shorter flight distance and no direct competition on those routes, then you don't deserve the top job Mr Joyce.
Qantas and SAA ganged up and prevented Virgin and BA from flying direct from London to Cape Town and onto Perth. This is the most lucrative long haul sector up fro grabs and neither Qantas or SAA fly it, but wont let anyone else do it! Qantas could fly easily Perth, Cape Town to London and back, with people paying a premium to be on the shortest haul to the UK and a nice stop over in Cape Town for those that want a break on long huals.
No direct flights from Johannesburg to Sydney except on Qantas and no direct Perth Johannesburg, axcept on SAA with their code share deal. A closed market!
Same goes for a few other routes out fo the east coast. The biggest problem with Qantas is the inability to think outside the box like Virgin and others do and in many cases the high costs of airport fees here in Ozz, which the goverment needs to address.
just compare a break down of ticket prices around the world with goverment duties and airport fees to our fees.
here is a website to use ( oh and it's an aussie site too )
Also the very luccrative Asian routes, see how the their costs stack up, when you break down the flight cost, and then add on the duties!!!!! now go kick the goverment for killing the goose as well.
Spot on Tony!! Cost of air travel in OZ is utter madness. I need to fly to CPT next friday and was shocked with what they charge now compared with Amsterdam to CPT, or London to CPT.
in this case the devil is the tax and airport fees you cough up!
in some cases 50% or more of your travel cost in an airline ticket is going to tax and airport fees!!! so how is Qantas going to save on it's cost if the fuel is pegged and fees set with tax's etc.???
Labour is not that big a hcunk to carve off from when you looking at labour excluding pilots and cabin crew making up less than 20% of the ticket cost in their section before taxs and airport fees added!
ps Every Qantas flight like any other flight has a large freight load onboard ( not just yours and my bags, but cargo!!!) and this is the competitve game, with dedicated cheaper planes from DHL and other cargo services now cutting into Qantas profit margin.
I'd like to see an open book show of their cost break down before they cry foul or fowl which ever does not fly again....
Also when last did anyone here get on a plane that was less than 80% booked??? not me, my last dozen international flights have been full to the brim and had waiting-lists at the que to board!
If australians are happy to put thier loved ones on aircraft serviced and maintained by overseas engineering companies ,go for it .I work directly in the airline engineering field and have seen the repercutions of overseas maintenance organisations.
Qantas will fold as that is Joyces intention and Jetstar will take over all domestic routes and be maintained in Asia , QF will retain its international standing .
Joyce goes on about losses , they made 500 mill as a group last year !!! Australian engineers are the best in the world ,aussies as a whole will question authority if they believe they are right and in this game that happens alot ,company pressure to maintain schedules is enormous .
Some countries have a culture of bowing to anyone higher in the foodchain , this can lead to disastrous endings for all concerned !!
scottland
Posts: 3031
Date Joined: 10/05/10
LOL
hahaha was at the airport today was soo eerie hahaah only 6 flights going in and out.
i support two teams eagles and whoever is playing the dockers
Oracle
Posts: 355
Date Joined: 22/11/10
Gold!
well done to stand up and sort it out. Why is it that the Qantus unions go for them yet the same workers at Virgin in the same industry doing the same job get lesser wages and no union involvment.
Alan Joyce - got my vote!
Mick71
Posts: 125
Date Joined: 18/12/10
Virgin gets less pay!
no they don't, it's all been blown up by the info that Qantas has been feeding the media as to the average wage of their employees, i.e. 170000PA average for an engineer!!!!! now that's a load of BS. Virgins engineers are getting paid a better wage, pilots are now on a par, the only difference is in their ground handeling, and lets try and compare CEO salaries, 5M for Allan compared to other airline CEOs. e.g Cathay who are a much larger airline, and are performing better, only gets paid 1.4M!!!
Also please don't say it's a performance bonus.....with share prices taking a dive, and no dividents paid to shareholders for the past 4 years!!!!!
Please don't give some half-hearted comment about something that you know nothing about without having all the facts and figures!!!
Sorry no vote for Allen or Oracle!
To fish or not to fish....
Shakespeare had it SO wrong!!!!
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
to back waht you said,a pilot
to back waht you said,
a pilot with Skywest, senoir with 25 years flying experience gets $96k a year FACT, seen his payslip and was shocked. Qantas long hall pilots are on par with Cathy Pacific, as our one friends son is a Cathy pilot and we know what abll park he earns. Only cheap asian budget arilines are paying less to staff and you can fly Tiger or Air Garuda ( what ever the spelling etc) anytime you willing to put up with the service.
Air New Zealand is paying better in local take home money to their pilots, cause they have a weaker currency that the Aus $ and so it discounts their paypackets as well.
Qantas is oversized and pays to much for it's services due to bad management and planning etc... Yes they got some of the highest paid workers in the airline world now, cause we now at 1:1 with US$ and when we where at 0.7:1 for the US $ then they where competitive.
As much as I'd like to support a national carrier being competitive, my gut says their is more corperate greed in this pot of stew than we are lead to beleave!.
The bigger question is, are Australian workers over paid in world comparitive scheme of things and do they expect far too much for their muscle labour that it is worth on the world market.
Thats more what this is about....
Have we become a socilistic wealthy greed driven ecconomy, with basic skill workers needing very high slaries to survive in high housing markets, expensive petrol and goods and food etc...
is this the first sign of the Aussie greed monger killing the first of the last Golden Geeses in the pen?
JMO
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
tournament
Posts: 376
Date Joined: 10/11/09
not happy should be flying
not happy should be flying home wednesday morning hope they get there shit together
scottland
Posts: 3031
Date Joined: 10/05/10
where from
if its qantas link most are still going
i support two teams eagles and whoever is playing the dockers
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
hello Ghost of
hello Ghost of Anset.....
this is only going to end baldy in 21 days time, even with Fair Work Australia now in play.
rule number one of business:
NEVER EVER USE YOUR CUSTOMERS AS PAWNS IN YOUR UNION SQUABBLES AND ALIENATE THE PEOPLE THAT PAY YOU FOR SERVICES...
(bit like crying victory when the Yanks use a cruise missile to kill one terror suspect and take out an entire village of innocent people they say they liberating….) maybe Joyce is using old Pres Bush advisors for his company warfare strategy these days????
go learn a few lessons from the past Mr Joyce, yes I sympathise with Qantas and the union battles, but shooting your customer base in the head was plain stupid and will cut your Australians flying Qantas from less than 16% at the moment to much less.
Thanks God my wife was on Air New Zealand on the weekend coming back from LA, she said she saw many many agree Aussies and Tourists trying to book in on Sat night at LAX! and stranded there.
This was a shot from the hip by Qantas board and Joyce, and it did not go the way they planned when Julia did not pull the pin first thing Sat on the unions and then to put the entire country in a bad light with people flying out at CHOGM too boot was just foolish too.
if they wanted to play lock out and ground, then any analyst worth his salt in a company would have said get GHOGM away and then you got Julia’s full attention, not embarrass her and the country leaving delegates and heads of state high and dry...
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
sea-kem
Posts: 14851
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Don't worry Tony those
Don't worry Tony those delegates were sorted out quick smart, they're not part of the prolatariate. Like the factory units where I am three of them getting broken into on the weekend because scumbags new all the cops were busy looking after the silver spoon brigade.
Love the West!
Rod P
Posts: 725
Date Joined: 20/05/08
What would have been better
What would have been better if he just agreed to there demands. Then when the airline goes under like Ansett us the tax payers could pay all the wages for the poor overpaid union workers..
Good on Joyce.. Big balls and worth every cent he is paid IMHO.
Rod P
Posts: 725
Date Joined: 20/05/08
Can someone confirm Joyce's
Can someone confirm Joyce's income. A report in the West was saying he has taken a pay cut and not taken his bonus money either..Just what was reported.
For the record if someone wanted to pay me $5million to be hated by half of Aussie i think id consider it?
For my understanding i see this as the start of the way things are going to go. We will soon be paying the price of a global economy. We can't have a national airline when everyone in the nation only buys on price.
If a company from India was to fly into Perth and then Fly onto Sydney for half the price Aussies would not think twice about buying that cheap ticket for themselves. Guess what that's what is happening so our local business have to change. So they are taking there industry offshore. That's what our buying public has done but it does make me laugh when local people them get upset at losing there jobs. We are riding on a big Amerigo round and sadly it looks like were on the down hill run ATM.
My prediction is next it will be mining jobs will be lost to overseas workers. Yes i know that is already happening but i think it could snow ball. Alot of Aussies will be working for overseas companies in our own town and i can't see anyway out of it.
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
soon you will just
soon you will just have Resources jobs and people supplying them with services and good. Everything else will be outsourced and overseas, from your kettle to car to airline to food next...
ps do you think most of the mining & oil/gas jobs are in Aussie hands at the moment??? I'd say No, if you add up the Kiwi's, SAFFA's, POMS, Yanks and Candians, then you would see it's close to 50% of work forces now from overseas already, even if they on 457 visa or perminent residencacy etc...
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
PattyT
Posts: 1025
Date Joined: 15/08/10
That was one of the worst
That was one of the worst desicions I have even seen from a CEO of a International company.. The last thing Qantas could afford was more bad publicity, with there drop in standards in all areas and attitude of not seeming to care what there customers think anymore I just cant understand how this desicion could have been made. It is Alan Joyce that has done the untold damage to Qantas, the company is bleeding money, bad desicions are being made constantly.... suprised he still has his job. How he thought if was a good idea to ruin the plans of 68,000 PAYING customers ill never know...
Fathom
Posts: 619
Date Joined: 18/04/08
Fridays AGM
He was awarded a 71% pay rise, Saturday he grounded the fleet, Now I am no legal eagle but: If the CEO knew at the AGM that they were going to ground the airline, but neglected to inform the shareholders, is it either/both a breach of the ASX listing rules (not informing of a significant event) and/or a breach of the corps law, prohibiting a responsible officer from acting against the interests of ALL shareholders equally?
It is a known/proven fact that this was in plan before the AGM friday and shareholders, (aka) owners were not informed of this intended procedure....Illegal?
glastronomic
Posts: 892
Date Joined: 16/02/11
Well one has to ponder what
Well one has to ponder what we want.
Open sky policy with a feral union movement that can do whatever they like and destroy a buisness with their outragious demands while we the traveling publik have access to cheap airfares from oversees carriers that pay peanuts to their support crew?
Or a protection plan but with a much dearer airtravel ticket base?
And why are the ones condemming the CEO of Quantas but are now shopping oversees instead of in our Australian shops?
Do we not want the retail employees to have decent australian wages?
Do we not want the Australian boat manufacturing/retail industrie workers to have full employment and fat pay packages?
So.,, why the 2 different standards wanting your cake and eat it as well?
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
no they want your cake and to
no they want your cake and to eat theirs as well!
Qantas has two very cossy direct routes to South Africa and USA ( LA) that they been killing for years.
The opening up of cheaper fares flying longer distances to the same destinations is the thing the industry should be looking at.
Two things cost an airline 80% of it's cash flow. Wages and Fuel. And if you flying the shortest route to USA, UK and RSA, than anyone else, and can't compete with people flying a complete extra sector to Singapore or New Zealand or Hong Kong , even Dubia and they cheaper, then the ecconomics needs to be looked at carefully for the fatal flaw.
I'd like to see the cost break down on Qantas, maybe tonight when I have the time I will look at last years annual general report and shareholders review.
With a stron Aussie dollar their fuel bill should have dropped and thier overseas costs reduced in amount. Local costs could not have climbed more than 10% max and wages less than 7% max.
So where is the loss leader coming from?
it's not fuel, it's not off shore service costs and airport fees, it's not repayments on loans for planes as they also dollar hedged at the moment, so whats it ????
With a strong dollar, Qantas should have been coining it, as local wages where still the same, only revenue is Aussie dollars would have dropped due to exchange rates
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2011/s3300745.htm
ps how can you double your profits from last year to $250M and then call poor and broke?
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Fathom
Posts: 619
Date Joined: 18/04/08
I'm not taking sides
It really is a tough economic climate at the moment, I think most will opt for the cheapest ticket rather then supporting Aus companies. Unfortunately this is Human nature and we all want the best bang for our hard earned coin.
BTW unions and the way they go about business in this country should have their heads pulled out from their arses and shown what hard work can achieve.
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
Qantas didn't seem to have
Qantas didn't seem to have any problems making record profits with Australian employees but they do want more profit.
The union has made a stand about not watering down the safety for customers of Qantas.
If overseas engineers were so good, how come Tiger got grounded then?
dodgy
Posts: 4562
Date Joined: 01/02/10
For a company as big as
For a company as big as Qantas I wouldnt have thought $250 million profit is all that much. Whats a new plane worth? About 300 mill for a new A380?
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
PattyT
Posts: 1025
Date Joined: 15/08/10
Makes a 70% pay increase for
Makes a 70% pay increase for the CEO seem even more outrageous doesnt it...
Alan James
Posts: 2206
Date Joined: 30/06/09
Joyce needed the 70% increase
to be paid more than Andrew Demetriuo per annun. Seems fair to me.
PattyT
Posts: 1025
Date Joined: 15/08/10
Demetriuo actually deserves
Demetriuo actually deserves his, dont think anyone could do any better at running the afl than him... just look at how ridiculous he makes the NRL look. haha
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
I'll just preface this by
I'll just preface this by saying I'm neither an AFL or NRL fan, but maybe the NRL make themselves look like that, and he is lucky?
Does he really work for that money?
uncleben
Posts: 187
Date Joined: 06/01/09
Joyce for Prime Minister!
Joyce for Prime Minister!
Lucky Tim
Posts: 2536
Date Joined: 28/11/07
hasn't hurt their share
hasn't hurt their share price, small increases both days and decent number traded too. Might reflect what most Aussies think of the whole situation, apart from those who got caught at the airport. At the end of the day most people will choose their carrier based on price and schedule, this small hiccup won't hurt them too much in the long run
PattyT
Posts: 1025
Date Joined: 15/08/10
@Till - He probably doesnt
@Till - He probably doesnt deserve to be paid as much as he's getting, but overall I think he does a pretty solid job. The AFL runs better than any other sporting organisation in Oz imo.
Wasnt the Qantas share price at $1 something today? Less than half of what it was before this little spat... thought i read that somewhere.
Alan James
Posts: 2206
Date Joined: 30/06/09
Look here PattyT
this doesn't support your last comment other than yes it was at a $1 something today. This graph suggests to me that Joyce's decision has strengthened shareholder confidence.
http://hfgapps.hubb.com/asxtools/Charts.aspx?asxCode=QAN&chartType=3&volumeInd=9&TimeFrame=D6
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
For sure, but its best to
For sure, but its best to remember what the sharemarket shows.
Joyce runs a profitable business, and its his job to make money for the shareholders in the short term, and nothing else.
They don't mind him putting his hand in the till for a bit more, because there is just one of him, and he is on their side.
They support his decision to deny employees CPI-based pay rises, because there are a lot of them, and lets face it, they're probably not all shareholders either.
All that happened was he had a petulant dummy spit, just like a spoilt child.
Alan James
Posts: 2206
Date Joined: 30/06/09
Disagree
Joyce wanted the unions / workers to stop the slow roasting of Qantas by repeated industrial action and wanted to proceed down the arbitration path. The unions refused and he took the action that he did. Fair Work Australia has now reinforced what Joyce wanted in the first place. I'm glad someone has balls these days. jmo.
sea-kem
Posts: 14851
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Both sides to blame in this
Both sides to blame in this debacle. What they need to do is sit down with level heads and sort it out. I back the pilots 100% Ausralian pilots only on Qantas planes.The baggage boys deserve a pay rise to keep up with the CPI. It can be done as Qantas like Telstra is still a very powerful player in it's game. And still profitable.
Love the West!
John the Pom
Posts: 182
Date Joined: 22/10/09
How anyone can stick up for
How anyone can stick up for Joyce after his pay rise and then bag the normal workers for more is beyond me.
Capitalism at it's worse, greed and the rich getting richer.
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
Alan Joyce
Have just read wikipedia on Alan Joyce pre quantas employment ,worked for Aer Lingus in various positions, then worked for ansett in various. both those air lines went belly up if my memory serves me correctly. I think a hugh amount of damage has been done to the quantas brand and Alan Joyce did what he did with the full backing of the board so all of what has transpired should not be laid at his feet the quantas board has said to it's customers "suck it up princesses" and get over it
To quote a great aiviator (bomber Harris)" people have said that you can't bomb them into submission,well we shall see"it no remains to be seen if the unions have been bombed into submission
fisherking
Posts: 730
Date Joined: 29/05/08
If Aer Lingus & shipping
If Aer Lingus & shipping company Cunnard joined forces would that give us CUNNILINGUS??
"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go." - Oscar Wilde
sea-kem
Posts: 14851
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Quantas?
Quantas?
Love the West!
Rod P
Posts: 725
Date Joined: 20/05/08
I read it yesterday that that
I read it yesterday that that Joyce doesn't get a 71% pay increase as everyone is sprucing. He will only get that if he manages to turn the company around and gets his targets met by next year. All reports say its almost impossible and if he does good on him. He will have saved a huge company from going under.
The qantas decisions of late have just cost 250 million to our country already. ATM Joyce has the government doing exactly what he wants them to do (maybe he'd like it down a but quicker, like before he had to ground the airline). As i said if he doesn't pull this off Qantas will more than likely be no more..Were will that leave our country?
I pray he gets his full bonus to be honest..For all our sakes.
glastronomic
Posts: 892
Date Joined: 16/02/11
Yes ROD that is correct , but
Yes ROD that is correct , but do not let a bit of creative shit stirring by leftwing media and roque union thugs get between a sensationally false representation of the truth .
He took a 30% pay cut and if he makes the parameters then through the share issue will get the BONUS!
That is not a weekly wage like a lot of peeps are basing their reaction on!
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
as I said earlier, if you
as I said earlier, if you can't make a killing on closed routes you code share with partners-in-crime, with shorter flight distance and no direct competition on those routes, then you don't deserve the top job Mr Joyce.
Qantas and SAA ganged up and prevented Virgin and BA from flying direct from London to Cape Town and onto Perth. This is the most lucrative long haul sector up fro grabs and neither Qantas or SAA fly it, but wont let anyone else do it! Qantas could fly easily Perth, Cape Town to London and back, with people paying a premium to be on the shortest haul to the UK and a nice stop over in Cape Town for those that want a break on long huals.
No direct flights from Johannesburg to Sydney except on Qantas and no direct Perth Johannesburg, axcept on SAA with their code share deal. A closed market!
Same goes for a few other routes out fo the east coast. The biggest problem with Qantas is the inability to think outside the box like Virgin and others do and in many cases the high costs of airport fees here in Ozz, which the goverment needs to address.
just compare a break down of ticket prices around the world with goverment duties and airport fees to our fees.
here is a website to use ( oh and it's an aussie site too
)
http://www.jetabroad.com.au/
now cost a few routes like Perth to London or Europe, and Sydney to London and Europe. Sydney to USA and Canada.
http://www.jetabroad.com.au/Flights/SYD-LAX-16-Nov-11/LAX-SYD-16-Jan-12-16/1Adult/1Child for those to lazy to do the search, just click the link and look at the air fares and tax components.
http://www.jetabroad.com.au/Flights/PER-LON-16-Nov-11/LON-PER-16-Jan-12-16/1Adult/1Child
Also the very luccrative Asian routes, see how the their costs stack up, when you break down the flight cost, and then add on the duties!!!!! now go kick the goverment for killing the goose as well.
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Blue Whaler
Posts: 382
Date Joined: 05/10/10
Spot on Tony!! Cost of air
Spot on Tony!! Cost of air travel in OZ is utter madness. I need to fly to CPT next friday and was shocked with what they charge now compared with Amsterdam to CPT, or London to CPT.
Every day at the Beach is a Good day!
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
they say the devil is in the
they say the devil is in the detail,
in this case the devil is the tax and airport fees you cough up!
in some cases 50% or more of your travel cost in an airline ticket is going to tax and airport fees!!! so how is Qantas going to save on it's cost if the fuel is pegged and fees set with tax's etc.???
Labour is not that big a hcunk to carve off from when you looking at labour excluding pilots and cabin crew making up less than 20% of the ticket cost in their section before taxs and airport fees added!
ps Every Qantas flight like any other flight has a large freight load onboard ( not just yours and my bags, but cargo!!!) and this is the competitve game, with dedicated cheaper planes from DHL and other cargo services now cutting into Qantas profit margin.
I'd like to see an open book show of their cost break down before they cry foul or fowl which ever does not fly again....
Also when last did anyone here get on a plane that was less than 80% booked??? not me, my last dozen international flights have been full to the brim and had waiting-lists at the que to board!
jmo
Tony
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
andym
Posts: 80
Date Joined: 28/09/06
Well you get what you pay
Well you get what you pay for !!
If australians are happy to put thier loved ones on aircraft serviced and maintained by overseas engineering companies ,go for it .I work directly in the airline engineering field and have seen the repercutions of overseas maintenance organisations.
Qantas will fold as that is Joyces intention and Jetstar will take over all domestic routes and be maintained in Asia , QF will retain its international standing .
Joyce goes on about losses , they made 500 mill as a group last year !!! Australian engineers are the best in the world ,aussies as a whole will question authority if they believe they are right and in this game that happens alot ,company pressure to maintain schedules is enormous .
Some countries have a culture of bowing to anyone higher in the foodchain , this can lead to disastrous endings for all concerned !!
You cant step out 39000ft up !!
Each to thier own ..
Cheers Andy