Rejected insurance claim
Hi
I recently hit a floating cray rope and unbeknown me at the time, the motor suffered substantial damage.
The drive shaft sheared in the driven gear but a sufficient length of splines remained intact and allowed me to continue boating on the day and subsequently until the service as detailed below.
I only discovered the damage when I started to do the 1100 hour service and dropped the leg to carry out the impeller replacement.
Once the leg was off it was immediately obvious that the shaft was damaged. The top of the shaft had sheared off and remained stuck in the driven gear in the powerhead.
I submitted a claim to Club Marine and was told to get a quote from a Marine Mechanic. This was not realistic as the powerhead had to be removed to ascertain the extent of the damage which in itself was 50% of the work so I decided to proceed with the repair.
I was extremely happy with the work which was done by a marine mechanic in Perths Northern suburbs and I submitted the final invoice to Club Marine for their response.
Unfortunately Club Marine have declined the claim for the following reasons (as submitted by their assessor) I personally find the finding totally unacceptable, unreasonable and unrealistic. They have decided the +- 25mm shaft failed as there was wear on the splines which allowed movement between the splines and the shaft. I find this an incredible assumption as in my opinion, the splines should have failed and not the shaft. I believe this was not a gradual failure as is being ascertained by Club Marine, but an instantaneous failure on impact with the cray rope. The sad fact is had the shaft failed below the splined area, I believe the claim would have been honoured as the boat would have been rendered unusable immediately leaving no doubt as to what had caused the failure.
I am asking for opinions as to the damage on the shaft and the views put forward by Club Marine and for any advice from anyone who might have had similar damage and a subsequent claim to their insurer. Be great if anyone with lots of metal experience / knowledge could comment
Thanks - Eric
Don't spend all your money on beer, boats, and fishing. Save some to spend foolishly
2.thumbnail.jpg "North mole pink snapper")
sunshine
Posts: 2600
Date Joined: 03/03/09
Can you pm me with your email address
And if you or anyone knows who is involved in yet ANOTHER Club denial where a wheel bearing failed and the wheel flew of damaging the hull ( appeared on Facebook and see by a friend)
They seen to be again making a habit of denying legitimate claims
little johnny
Posts: 5357
Date Joined: 04/12/11
I hit floating rope
Tied in floating lump. Done my bearing in big time ( gearbox) . Stuffed gearbox completely .bit unusual to do spline . No expert on matter . Insurance your with tried doing me over many years ago . Was with them for many many years (10 plus) no claims nothing . Made small claim , they almost doubled their premium following year . Didn’t happen .Been with SGIO ever since . Good luck
Bodgy 79
Posts: 285
Date Joined: 04/08/22
Hey Eric, I'm hd mechanic
Hey Eric, I'm hd mechanic and work with large machinery with shafts,pins,axels ect. From what I can see the splines apear to be substantially worn and dry and at 1100 hours it is has done some work.How ever has exessive spline wear happened prio or post the breakage is anyone guess.A lot of failures I see have started from a small fracture of some sort that over time works it's way through the metal causing weekness and at some point when a heavy load is applied you end up with it breaking. If you can persure a claim good on ya but unfortunately it looks to me that it's a pill you have to swallow mate.
keg
Posts: 398
Date Joined: 17/07/07
i`m glad you said it first
i was thinking the same thing. no wonder insurance premiums are so high
Rob H
Posts: 5796
Date Joined: 18/01/12
The mechanic who did the
The mechanic who did the work, his opinion should hold the most sway.
Sunshine above is the one who can make a difference though.
It seems an odd place for the shaft to shear?
Was the broken off piece available for inspection?
If the snapped off piece had spline wear then it was obviously prior to shearing.
But also, anyone who takes an insurers first response as final is the insurers favourite client.
Pursue it, even if for a negotiated settlement
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
straith
Posts: 421
Date Joined: 25/11/13
club marine approved repairer?
Hi mate ,
not sure who your mechanic is so disregard if hes already club marine approved, Id give Mick from marine masters a call and get him to inspect. He was a club marine approved repairer when i had a claim which made it a smooth process but also knows his stuff. He will be honest with you too whatever the verdict.
cheers and good luck
Swompa
Posts: 3873
Date Joined: 14/10/12
The work is already done,
The work is already done, isn't it?
sea-kem
Posts: 14965
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Looks like a mongrel dog got
Looks like a mongrel dog got hold of the end of that Eric lol
Love the West!
Shark1
Posts: 1086
Date Joined: 21/05/12
i changed to RAc after some
i changed to RAc after some very shit service from club marine
Ericl
Posts: 463
Date Joined: 02/05/11
More info
Don't spend all your money on beer, boats, and fishing. Save some to spend foolishly
dano83
Posts: 790
Date Joined: 25/05/12
same same but different
Man i had the something similar happen and am still fighting them almost 2 years later!
I am at the ombudsman stage now and have had to fork out my own money for an independent evaluation by a marine engineer,
through discussions with people if your mechanic is a club marine repairer they wont bite the hand that feeds them "club marine" and wont offer you much help.
I stupidly left motors down one day while preoccupied talking to a mate i drove to the boat ramp and grazed the speed hump at hillarys
just enough to cause damage a few months down the track.... But in clubs oppinion it was a "part malfuntion"
I am putting in the report this week and hoping for a good outcome.
Ericl
Posts: 463
Date Joined: 02/05/11
Also CM
Hi dano83
Are you aslso with Club Marine.
Interesting. I did talk to Suzuki initially as Google searches show more failures on Suzuki than other outboards (in my opinion). This also reflects in threads on The Hull Truth. Suzuki said definitely a result of impact damage. Club Marine say no impact damage visible. I asked what they expected to see from a nylon rope. No response as yet to that question.
Hope this is not going to take 2 years plus
Cheers
Don't spend all your money on beer, boats, and fishing. Save some to spend foolishly
dano83
Posts: 790
Date Joined: 25/05/12
yep im with club
Yeah mate! im with Club marine and still am atm until i get this resolved....
If you can put a good case together take it to the ombudsman they will ask you to prove your story and if you can put any doubt in there mind of what club marine say and wha you say is also possible
they should go in your favour.
you need to put up a very good case though because they are cleaver!
I will let you know my outcome if you like.
Da pirate
Posts: 1561
Date Joined: 03/05/15
Waterline ..
I use cam and gotta get my boat to him
to resolve some issues on my little boat !
guys a absolute legend . Been taking
my boat to him for years .. cheers pirate
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8141
Date Joined: 07/05/12
Absolute legend of a bloke a
Absolute legend of a bloke a old school top service too
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
SpotHound
Posts: 439
Date Joined: 06/02/14
Unpopular
I showed this to a mate who Non Destructive Tests aeronautical parts, and also tests items after failure.
He agrees with club marine, says the spline wear, caused a weak point in the shaft, and the stress fracture propagated from there, causing the failure when you hit the rope.
He also said your hypothesis is not totally out there and it cant be ruled out. He also mentioned a defect in the steel when it was cast, cant be ruled out either without testing in a lab.
Thus, although I know this is unpopular, club marine went with the most likely option, and the bastards would win if you took it further. Sadly.
He says if you google metallurgist- Perth, you can take take it for an independant check at a hefty fee. He doesnt do anything but aircraft, I asked.
sea-kem
Posts: 14965
Date Joined: 30/11/09
I worked with Gordon aka
I worked with Gordon aka Sunshine regarding a trailer failure, Engaged a forensic engineer and a good outcome for the trailer owner. Like you say there are many factors at play and until you get it in a lab it's all speculative.
Love the West!
SpotHound
Posts: 439
Date Joined: 06/02/14
Unpopular
Double
Messiah
Posts: 99
Date Joined: 19/05/13
Is it a maintenance part,
Is it a maintenance part, and is the wear on splines within Suzi tolerances?
Brock O
Posts: 3223
Date Joined: 11/01/08
looking at that spline to me
looking at that spline to me its taken a massive hit you can even see were its jammed before failure,
Wear my ass..how does a splined shaft like that wear ffs.
Keep pushing Eric.
Ericl
Posts: 463
Date Joined: 02/05/11
Totally agree Brock O
My feelings exactly. Fatigue failure apparently shows up as a much more gentle even fracture. This looks like a volcano ! The top is still jammed in the driven gear where in my opinion, its twisted while the lower bit was jammed by the cray rope
Cheers
Don't spend all your money on beer, boats, and fishing. Save some to spend foolishly
Brock O
Posts: 3223
Date Joined: 11/01/08
Exactly..yes they do wear but
Exactly..yes they do wear but that's showing signs of a major failure to me, they dont get deformation in them from normal wear even after 1100 hrs.
I had a quick look over the thread for all the other comments from our experienced forum members who have broken a shaft also...couldn't find any even with massive engine hours, a failure due to wear to me is bullshit.
My last motor was a 95 Johnson..I don't have pic's but the shaft still looked new after who knows how many hours and I had wacked that a few times even smashed a prop, but still nothing like the attached.
One thing I will mention is the lack of grease. I'd presume this comes out when changing the water pump like most...why your mechanic hasn't greased it is a worry..the above comments are due to the signs of rust / corrosion build up, arguments of a notch / fatigue raisers causing the failure does have weight and is what the insurance company will work on.
I have 1972 Torana and the axles are still original, they have coped a hammering over the years with multiple broken diff centers. Extremely rare to brake a shaft even with high fatigue loads.
Putting a boat motor in gear in water...I cant see that wear from that sorry.
little johnny
Posts: 5357
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Sunshine helped me
Out heaps .regarding insurance .( unreal guy) I hope all works out for you. Last fish comp I was in . My son hit turtle . Lucky he had ally prop . Otherwise it would have been nasty. I run s/steel prop. No play in them . Up to nearly 4000 hrs on my motor now. Very soon going for number 3 mo
shortfuse
Posts: 211
Date Joined: 02/01/12
Would of thought the
Would of thought the coupling inside the prop would have broken before the drive shaft, have broken them before and they are usually only made of plastic last one it did was in a 175hp Merc running over a rope at dawn. From the photo to me looks like it's not new give the rust showing my guess it's been broken a while and likely a result of manufacturing defect. Had it snapped further down the shaft outside the coupling and was unable to drive at all after the hit my guess would be your claim would have a better chance of approval.
Best of luck
little johnny
Posts: 5357
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Early model motors
Had better things to save gearbox / shaft issues . Boy hit turtle few weeks back . If it wasn’t for his ally prop bending , he would have had big issues . If it was stainless steel like I run . 100% gear box would have gone . I don’t think new motors have sheer pins ?
sunshine
Posts: 2600
Date Joined: 03/03/09
For those interested …..the final outcome
I am pleased to report that after some lengthy and detailed submissions the insurer backed down and accepted the claim with a reasonable depreciation allowance for wear and tear.
And please be careful out there, you don't need to sit on the reef to get crays, two rescues yesterday of boats with the bottom end of outboards ripped clean off and that was all before 7am
Ericl
Posts: 463
Date Joined: 02/05/11
Many thanks sunshine
Want to express my sincere thanks to sunshine. With sunshines extensive help. a happy outcome has been achieved. Eric
Don't spend all your money on beer, boats, and fishing. Save some to spend foolishly
sea-kem
Posts: 14965
Date Joined: 30/11/09
You are an absolute
You are an absolute gentleman Gordon, I know we all appreciate your expertise and knoweledge on here
Love the West!
Happy dayz
Posts: 450
Date Joined: 29/04/18
Great outcome for you Eric ,
Great outcome for you Eric , and well done Gordon top work you sure do help alot on this site ,cheers
Happy dayz
big john
Posts: 8749
Date Joined: 20/07/06
Legendary
Onya Sunshine.
WA based manufacturer and supplier of premium leadhead jigs, fligs, bucktail jigs, 'bulletproof' soft plastic jig heads and XOS bullet jig heads.
Jigs available online in my web store!
uncle
Posts: 9474
Date Joined: 10/02/07
Great to hear
Erich
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
uncle
Posts: 9474
Date Joined: 10/02/07
Great to hear
Eric.
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
Brock O
Posts: 3223
Date Joined: 11/01/08
Well Done Sunshine, Legendary
Well Done Sunshine, Legendary Stuff!! Great news Eric, bet thats a load off.
Swompa
Posts: 3873
Date Joined: 14/10/12
What a legend you are,
What a legend you are, Gordon.
Ericl
Posts: 463
Date Joined: 02/05/11
Thanks Brocko. Definitely a load off
Thanks Brocko. Definitely a load off. Will help with Xmas spending
Don't spend all your money on beer, boats, and fishing. Save some to spend foolishly