Update on Mills Charters Release Method
As most of you know what went on with Mills Charters during the last week and you probably read their response to what was happening. Well , a friend of mine went out with them on Friday just gone , he got a few fish but nothing to write home about. while fishing in 120mtrs out the back of rotto he pulled up an undersize pinkie and before he could do anything the decky was onto the fish removing the hook and then just threw it overboard, with that the pinkie just flapped around on the surface and an albatross got to it. My friend was disgusted in the way it happened. Asked the deckie if they had one of those release weight things, his response was , yeah we have one somewhere over there. ........
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
- 3756 reads
Johnyy_Boii
Posts: 328
Date Joined: 20/04/09
so much for their
so much for their "professional response", thats sad to hear, not a very good way to make business....
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18026
Date Joined: 11/03/08
thats exactly what i thought
thats exactly what i thought when i heard about them
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
danno
Posts: 1676
Date Joined: 12/07/09
complain to the main
complain to the main boss.
that shouldnt be happening. and if they still do it theres only one option, go to fisheries and give them details and they'll do something about it.
cheers danno
dagree
Posts: 660
Date Joined: 08/12/07
Fisheries!!!!!
With a bit of luck Fisheries may just happen across these comments on the site and do some investigating!!!!
Cheers,
David
Cheers,
David (AKA Grumps)
Location: Heathridge. Toys: 120 Series Prado ... 5.3 Stacer Seamaster/Merc 90HP.
danno
Posts: 1676
Date Joined: 12/07/09
yer i think they should send
yer i think they should send someone out but in normal clothes and report back at the end of the day with images and details.
cheers danno
cuthbad
Posts: 1266
Date Joined: 22/04/09
Wish i could say I was
Wish i could say I was suprised, but the lack of sincerity and regret in their response was a strong indicator of their attitude for me. You would think they would learn, but apparently not hey. Really hope fisheries steps in here!!!
fisho-ron
Posts: 2539
Date Joined: 26/09/09
that is disgusting,
that is disgusting, hopefully the word gets around and people dont use them.
Jody
Posts: 1578
Date Joined: 19/04/07
WTF
You have got to be joking.
After the flaming in the last thread and their 'Holier than Thou' response, you would think they would've got their shit together.
PATHETIC!!TWiZTED
wombat78
Posts: 171
Date Joined: 20/04/09
what happend to the last
what happend to the last thread i cant find it has it been deleated wanted to read there response
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
Just click here for the
Just click here for the previous thread.
Bit sad to hear its all still happening after the previous thread. No real surprise though with that attitude. Thats a charter I won't ever bother with.
wombat78
Posts: 171
Date Joined: 20/04/09
cheers tillyeah thought they
cheers till
yeah thought they would have been on to it especialy knowing people would be watching easy way to loose your license i spose
Indiana
Posts: 307
Date Joined: 15/12/09
Fisheries compliance
Fisheries compliance officers were made aware of the first instance .
They will find out about this as as well.
This latest , total lack of common sense is a very big black mark against the operator and their crews.
The response posted on behalf of the operator last week appears to be just lip service.
Maybe the best option is to make sure our family and friends are spending their money with a charter operation that has a better code of conduct.
" IF YOUR NOT GOING TO EAT IT ......PUT IT BACK WHERE YOU CAUGHT IT"
Rod P
Posts: 725
Date Joined: 20/05/08
You would have thought after
You would have thought after the first thread Mills ay have tightened ship and made sure this didn't happen again. But now this, personially with the internet, fishing forums and word of mouth this is simply stupid business sense....
Sad and great to get some more feed back too thanks Fualkners.
Iceman
Posts: 747
Date Joined: 17/03/09
I know some of the fisheries
I know some of the fisheries guy who operate from Hillarys. I will be out on Saturday and you can bet they will be checking me as I have seen them the last 3 trip out on Mindarie. I will have a word to them when I next see them to get a response. Have never seen them checking catches when the charters return to harbour and I still continue to see fish that I consider undersize including pinkies and dhuies.
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DhuBoi
Posts: 896
Date Joined: 25/05/09
where is the captain of the
where is the captain of the boat i would be kicking the deckie's arse for doing that shit!
living is fishing
breno1985
Posts: 144
Date Joined: 02/01/10
mills reply
ive had some experience with the person that put mills response up about my unhappy charter and ive got to say without trying to slander anyone "POWERTRIP"
by the sounds of it nothing was even said to the deckies, that or they just dont give a sh*t.
Lamby
Posts: 3145
Date Joined: 04/08/09
Can't seem to find my soap
Can't seem to find my soap box, must of left it in the last Mills thread
JakeB
Posts: 262
Date Joined: 12/12/09
This is beyond a joke, i
This is beyond a joke, i hope fisheries move in on this shunty operation. No way will i or anyone i know be using Mills charters in the future.
tailor marc
Posts: 2979
Date Joined: 27/09/06
Hope someone gets video of
Hope someone gets video of this
My photography pictures... http://westernhorizonsmedia.wordpress.com/
mc4
Posts: 5
Date Joined: 15/01/10
release methods
in reply to the comment made by "faulkner family". i was the skipper on the boat on that day and would like to defend myself and set the record straight!
until now my reputation has been kept in tact and all the comments put up on fishwrecked have been nothing to do with me personally. until now!
the fish being refered to was 1 of about 30 to be released on that day and the only one that i saw not to have made it!
first i would like to cast your minds back to the original thread which reported that the fish was caught in 120 meters of water, it is as anyone with a knowledge of fishing would understand very difficult to release a fish that has come up from that depth.
second i would like to make aware that this particular fish had it's swim bladder well and truly hanging out of it's mouth caused by the effects of barotrauma. and to add to the damage both it's eye's were buldging out of it's head!
i think in future before everyone gets excited and starts making personal attacks on myself or my collegues maybe just ask for an explination. i also wouldn't believe everything that "a mate of mine" said!
and finally commercial charter operators only account for about 5 percent of fish taken from the sea with rec fishers accounting for over 40 percent maybe some "food for thought".
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18026
Date Joined: 11/03/08
MC4
I would believe a friend over you guys any day.... he did not even know about the other thread and was just chatting outside my shop about his disgust in the way this charter released his small undersize pinkie.......then i asked him which one.... never did i attack you as a skipper only your decky lack of concern when releasing under size fish methods........ This was because the decky did not even know where the release weight was so he had not used it all day when a customer questions a method you use surly you would expect him to answer not just shrug it off or was it the time you would lose putting it back to the bottom that was the problem ???? JMO.......... I put up this post because i would have thought that as they said in there reply to the other post that you had now sorted it all out and the problem would not be happing again well not even one week later and it is still happing ............. Maybe now it will stop ............
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
No excuse not to use a
No excuse not to use a release weight.
Can't say I've ever seen stats suggesting that recfishers account for 40% of take, care to back that up?
Ben Derecki
Posts: 1926
Date Joined: 10/10/07
Did a quick check and the
Did a quick check and the most recent State of the Fisheries Report has recs at 44%, pros at 47% and charters at 8% of the take of dhu, pinks and baldies (combined totals).
Edit: this applies for the West Coast bioregion only.
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
Sure, but thats because the
Sure, but thats because the pros are excluded from quite a bit of the west coast region.
mc4
Posts: 5
Date Joined: 15/01/10
no excuse
there is no excuse mate and the problem has been looked into very seriously.
and my mistake my figures are a bit old, that figure is actually 44 percent!
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Quick question
As a charter skipper, how can you defend the use of a "simple release" technique for a fish in 120m of water when you clearly acknowledge it is suffering badly from barotrauma?
I would have thought that out of the 30 fish you say were released without problem this one would surely qualify for being released using a "release weight" to give it a fighting chance at survival. If it doesnt qualify in your eyes, please tell us what you use as a yardstick before deploying the release weight and why?
I personally have no problem with anyone using "simple release" techniques on snapper up to say 100m provided the fish is looking good and was brought up slowly. But with bulging eyes/protuding stomach etc??????
As for the 5% charter v 40% rec, what bearing does that have on the use or non use of a release weight? Recreational fishers whether in their own boats or on a charter still have to abide by the same rules. And whilst there is no law against using a "simple release" obviously in this day and age its advisable to use a release weight in such depths for clearly barotrauma damaged fish.
If it was a Dhuie what would the deckie have done?
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
Auslobster
Posts: 1901
Date Joined: 03/05/08
Great attitude there...
...eyes were bulging, bladder was blown up, etc etc etc...not an excuse mate, and it sets a bad example for all the punters on board who may go out again on a rec boat in the future. If at least an attempt to release the fish properly was made, then people go home with the right idea.
I'm sure Fisheries are aware of this, but I did ask the question in the previous thread: We all know that it is compulsory to CARRY a release weight, but is it compulsory to ACTUALLY USE a release weight?
Rod P
Posts: 725
Date Joined: 20/05/08
Great question and one i'd
Great question and one i'd love to get clarification on.
As for the skipper of MC4 mate if your not going to use a release weight than how do you know if it works or not.
Better to do so and give the fish some fighting chance. I would have thought if not for the law maybe for your business i'd suggest you learn how to use a release weight fast.
beejay
Posts: 55
Date Joined: 22/02/10
Pudding
As I said in the previous thread "the proof will be in the pudding".
Obviously they feel their practices are perfectly fine so I, for one, will wll eat my pudding elsewhere.
Indiana
Posts: 307
Date Joined: 15/12/09
As the skipper of a
As the skipper of a commercial vessel , I guess that makes you responsible for the actions of your crew and customers !
In my copy of the rules in regard to the release of undersize demersal species of fish it doesn't say anything about feeding them to the birds if they have bulgy eyes or caught below 120 meters. The fish certainly has a better chance of survival being returned to the depth's than thrown to the birds.
Commercial vs Rec catch , sorry you lost me here ,doesn't matter who catches what proportion of the catch ,as long as everybody "Fishes For The Future" .
" IF YOUR NOT GOING TO EAT IT ......PUT IT BACK WHERE YOU CAUGHT IT"
mako magic
Posts: 5785
Date Joined: 03/08/05
very well said indiana
very well said indiana
drew_ward
Posts: 118
Date Joined: 02/03/10
thats F***K thought the
thats F***K thought the saying was "learn from your mistakes"...ill have there boat if the're gonna treat fishing like that
Happy Fishing????always
Salmo
Posts: 913
Date Joined: 15/08/05
SFR 2009
State of the Fisheries Report http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/docs/sof/2008/index.php?00
p71
Snapper
Rec Total 40t with charters taking 22t of it
brenz
Posts: 2182
Date Joined: 15/06/06
MC4 if you want to avoid the
MC4
if you want to avoid the criticism and you were the skip do something about it !!!! in my time on charter boats the skip is usually watching what happens on the deck as they are the boss/supervisor as such so whats your excuse ? having a coffee/sleep or some other business in your private time?
imo mills is a very poor excuse for charters and i have to admit the biggest cock i have ever met was a skip on their boats ... in saying that one of the best deckies going used to work for them which was a big up for darren in his time with them
Jody
Posts: 1578
Date Joined: 19/04/07
I heard
I heard the Charter operators had to log the caught fish B U T it wasn't compulsory to submit the information ....... if so how accurate is that 8% figure.
I think its a crap attitude and message to be sending the hundreds of punters you take out on a monthly basis. Shows absolutely no respect for the fishery.
TWiZTED
mc4
Posts: 5
Date Joined: 15/01/10
fish log
we log every fish that we catch, kept and released. we give details of where it was caught, the depth, and the size. and it is copulsory to do so! so the figure is correct.
mc4
Posts: 5
Date Joined: 15/01/10
critisism
mate i appreciate to all types of feedback constructive or otherwise.
we have done something about the problem and it will not be happening again.
at the time the fish in question was released i had found a school of pinkies and was otherwise engaged in assisting another guest.
it has also not been mentioned that we did try to retreive the fish but by the time i could swing the boat around the bird had killed the fish. still no excuse but there are two sides to every story.
in 12 years this is the first time i have received any critisim on and forum and will do everything in my power to make sure it does not happen again!
i think you guy's need to think about the damage these comments do to our livelyhoods, after all i don't bag everyone out on there jobs!
as for the skipper you mentioned we have had a change of crew over the last months so the "biggest cock" you mentioned no longer works on our vessels.
brenz
Posts: 2182
Date Joined: 15/06/06
but my question now is why
but my question now is why is it youhave to wait for someone to post this up publicly before you decide to pull your head in? you should be releASE weighting all your fish . the other thing is what was your revival method spearing the fish into the water from a 6 ft high gunnel? after comming up from 120m a 2 ft dive int the water is the most ameture release mothod ive ever seen!
brenz
Posts: 2182
Date Joined: 15/06/06
also at the time of the
also at the time of the incedent (bird pecking the fish) did ya give the deckie a bolloking or further education if needed?
allrounder
Posts: 1853
Date Joined: 10/11/08
I was not there so i have no comment
on what happened that day but if you have fished for a long time in deep water and have had any fish float off then you should pull your head in.It is not a defence of mills in anyway as i have driven around behind them getting sambos down on the ags but in saying that i would have put down 2 non charters fish (Rec Idiots that have no right to hang crap)to every 1 charter fish.It is a fact that you can take all the care in the world but sometimes it is just not enough.I have had a couple of fish that i havent been able to get down but luck would have it it doesnt happen very often.
So tell me have you got your info from years on the water or hours on the internet?
stilly
Posts: 341
Date Joined: 10/08/09
come on blokes
not defending bad catch and release methods here in any way i personally do everything in my powers to bring a fish up as smartly as possible from any depth but there is that one fish that just wont go down, as far as a release weight?........helps to get that fish from out of eysight makes you feel better, no gaurantee it "swam" away nice and strong so i think sum ego's might need to get into line here and admit some fish undersize or not are affected by "YOU" catching them imo give charters a break here when to you have 15+ people fishing on your boat and have every fish swim away strong?????
mako magic
Posts: 5785
Date Joined: 03/08/05
with a release weight used
with a release weight used properly a fish shouldnt float away?
i would hate to imagine how many release weights are just stored in boats and never used, they are here for a reason.
flangies
Posts: 2542
Date Joined: 11/05/08
Just lost alot of customers
Just lost alot of customers thats for sure, I or any of my friends will not be using mills charters in the future.
Everyone slips up, but twice there is no excuse.
And as for that free trip for that one guy.. Why does only he get one and not everyone else on the boat?
cuthbad
Posts: 1266
Date Joined: 22/04/09
It's about having the right
It's about having the right attitude and taking the effort to do the right thing. Sure some will float away but considering the fish was clearly suffering from barotrauma the question is why wasn't a release weight used in the first place?
from Mills reply to the last issue: "stringent policies for our conduct have been highlighted to remaining Crew as part of our ongoing need for training and education"
So what is the policy, because if this was following policy then something is seriously wrong!!
As for the percentage of fish taken by charters, what a joke!! How on earth is that relevant? If every person with a boat out there said "hey, im only taking a tiny percentage of the fish taken in the big picture, so screw it" what state would our fisheries be in?
As with the response from Mills, MC4s response seems to be lacking IMO. yea it wont happen again bla bla and then a few irrelevant points to try and distract people from the issue.
stilly
Posts: 341
Date Joined: 10/08/09
not about free rides kid
not about free rides kid
cuthbad
Posts: 1266
Date Joined: 22/04/09
Yep, not at all about free
Yep, not at all about free rides. Maybe someone needs to point out to Mills that a free ride doesnt make up for doing the wrong thing!
Jordan496
Posts: 37
Date Joined: 17/01/10
this just adds to the list
this just adds to the list of bad things i have heard about mills
Alan James
Posts: 2223
Date Joined: 30/06/09
The Test
I just hope that all those who have criticised the actions of Mills can put their hand over their hearts with 100% certainty and declare released fish have never floated away from their or any craft they have been on without protest.
allrounder
Posts: 1853
Date Joined: 10/11/08
all of a sudden there are a lot of people
on the release weight band wagon.I didnt see any of you around when Gary started building the thing and there was only a few of us using it then.We got bagged by almost everyone.How many of you laughed when Gaz and Wally sat at ramps and handed out ones that they payed for out of their own pockets then sat around getting crappy remarks instead of spending time fishing themselves.Take a good look back a few years before you start bagging someone for doing the wrong thing.This is why a lot of very good anglers leave or dont post picks on this site.
So tell me have you got your info from years on the water or hours on the internet?
mc4
Posts: 5
Date Joined: 15/01/10
thanks mate, it's a little
thanks mate, it's a little known fact that mills charters have been using release weights for over ten years, even before other operators and well before it became manditory.
Rod P
Posts: 725
Date Joined: 20/05/08
Not all the time or simply
Not all the time or simply this thread wouldn't exist....! Good onya for stepping up but as said earlier the "Proof is in the pudding".....
81macca
Posts: 270
Date Joined: 02/07/09
This post could leave
This post could leave somebody with out a job or a buissnes lost. Morgages to pay kids to feed pretty harsh thing over a dead snapper!
I actually fish.
cuthbad
Posts: 1266
Date Joined: 22/04/09
In a great number of
In a great number of occupations if you go outside of "best practice" you face a hell of a lot more than some winging on a web site. Especially if it happens once, you promise to rectify it, then it happens again
The only people responsible for the jobs lost or the business suffering are those responsible for making sure that their charter does things right. Hopefully those people will take the situation seriously this time.
uncle
Posts: 9474
Date Joined: 10/02/07
respect for fish
if you don't do the righty,a release weight will not revive a dead fish or work wonders if you don't take care bringing it up slowly in the first place
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
Iceman
Posts: 747
Date Joined: 17/03/09
Slow retrieve
Maybe the deckie should ensure small fish from any depth are brought up slowly so they don't incure the problems being used as an excuse. Not that difficult to explain.With anyone I take out I ensure that if they have a small fish on they bring it up slowly and it is not hard to know. I can say with 100% that all fish released I have used the release weight.
Hard to understand how only 1 fish out of 30 had the bulging eyes/protuding stomach problem when fishing it that depth.
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Indiana
Posts: 307
Date Joined: 15/12/09
To the skipper
To the skipper ...........Thanks for your latest post .
I'm glad that you have excepted the responsibilty to make the changes necessary on your boat .
I hope that your influence might carry over to the other skippers and crew in your organization.
As with most business's these days you never seem to get a lot of positive feed back from customers .............,but if you do something wrong , negitive feedback will spread like a disease.
Hopefully we may see some positive comments about your charter operations in the near future .
" IF YOUR NOT GOING TO EAT IT ......PUT IT BACK WHERE YOU CAUGHT IT"
Decella
Posts: 401
Date Joined: 01/02/09
Like the old saying goes
You only have to root one goat to be a ..........................!
Indiana
Posts: 307
Date Joined: 15/12/09
Exactly !!! An oldy , but a
Exactly !!!
An oldy , but a goody!
" IF YOUR NOT GOING TO EAT IT ......PUT IT BACK WHERE YOU CAUGHT IT"
allrounder
Posts: 1853
Date Joined: 10/11/08
Another oldie that applies here
Before you criticize someone,you should walk a mile in their shoes.That way, when you criticize them,youre a mile away and you have their shoes.
So tell me have you got your info from years on the water or hours on the internet?
Adam Gallash
Posts: 15644
Date Joined: 29/11/05
done and dusted
This has been done and dusted, everyone has had a right of reply and time to express their opinion, it is now going nowhere. Thread closed.
Cheers,
Adam
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