What fish- not a Western Fortescue, Bull Rout? Nasty venom in spikes
Catching these off Palm Beach Jetty in Rockingham. Some guys are calling them Western Fortescues- nothing like the wreckapedia version of that, one fella off a prawn trawler called it a bull rout...
One thing we all know is the spikes are packing a venom- stings and burns like hell for hours. Anyone who gets spiked lets everyone else know all about it. I copped a tiny pinprick and my whole hand had a kind of burning and numb feeling for hours around the tiny red spot. Every time one comes up everyone sings out "don't touch those!!"
Locals of 15-50 years say they have never seen this fish around here until lately, right now apparently they are more caught than trumpeters and butterfish. About 8-15cm, one theory is some ship may have emptied its ballast out in the sound and introduced them, any thoughts?
Hanging around 2-5 metres down with scaly mackerel around jetty pylons. (Sorry about the sun reflection from the camera phone)
Any heelp to ID this?
.thumbnail.JPG "sundays snapper")
dodgy
Posts: 4576
Date Joined: 01/02/10
Not sure on the name but the
Not sure on the name but the flesh has a strange mushy feel when you handle them.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18007
Date Joined: 11/03/08
just put it on the wa museum
just put it on the wa museum guys post. hope he can help. never seen anything like it
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
Leemo
Posts: 3712
Date Joined: 22/02/07
Siganus Nebulosis. Aka,
Siganus Nebulosis. Aka, 'Happy Moments'
bludgin' since 94'
Mr x
Posts: 182
Date Joined: 17/03/09
happy moments haha touch it
happy moments haha touch it and find out got one while fishing for scalies fow weeks back at freo
crugs1
Posts: 131
Date Joined: 31/08/11
Got stung by one last week
Got stung by one last week at eshed not to pleasant haha
NORUN NOFUN
Posts: 1034
Date Joined: 15/08/11
Agree with leemo
I fished with my old man in Queensland ( Hervey bay ), and those pics look bloody similar to what my old described as " Happy Moments " , it maybe a similar species - I assume this is not the real name, but maybe check out some Queensland fish species on the net and compare.
bod
Posts: 2319
Date Joined: 03/05/06
happy moments
Reckon Leemo's got it.
"Bullrout - aka I want to cut my leg off with a hacksaw to stop the pain" seem to be only found in NSW and Qld.
kwazulu
Posts: 62
Date Joined: 05/02/10
Rabbit Fish
Commonly called a rabbit fish (there are a few different species).
Redemperor000
Posts: 295
Date Joined: 14/01/12
Looks related to the black
Looks related to the black spinefoot, but i think you only get them up north,
Turbo Tim
Posts: 27
Date Joined: 22/12/11
Reckon Leemo got it
Leemo I searched that name on google and found this
http://www.divearound.com.au/fish/Happy-Moments/149
I reckon you're spot on, the little video that plays, the second fish in is it for sure- except, why the hell would anyone call this happy moments? lol
When it got me I wasn't very happy!
PS. I got my sting back in mid January- interestingly I remeber that looked more speckled silvery, the page says juveniles are more silver and the locals say they only just appeared recently. Starting to think the ship emptying its ballast theory sounds feasible. I'd research what was at the grain terminal December/January- but I'd rather go fishing!
Every fella who has been stung (cos they had never seen them here before) shudders every time they come up- which is every other cast lately unfortunately. Throw themselves onto sabikis when you're catching scalies for bait
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18007
Date Joined: 11/03/08
i would say the ranga got it
i would say the ranga got it right. dont know the reason why its happy moments, maybe its the same guy that called the elbow the funny bone when you knock it.
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
carnarvonite
Posts: 8661
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Black Spinefoot
Its a Black Spinefoot, also known as Happy Moments, Pearl spotted Spinefoot and Fuscous Rabbitfish.
The dorsal and anal spines are poisonious
Alan James
Posts: 2222
Date Joined: 30/06/09
Black Spinefoot - Siganus spinus (Linnaeus)
Other common names: Black Trevally; Blue Spotted Trevally: Mi-Mi; Happy Moments; Stinging Bream.
Source: Guide to Fishes by E.M.Grant
carnarvonite
Posts: 8661
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Happy moments
The reason for the "Happy Moments", nickname is once stung you get a feeling of euphoria for a minute or so before the pain really strikes.
Turbo Tim
Posts: 27
Date Joined: 22/12/11
I heard that
I can't help it. But I just get this image of Homer licking toads and slipping into euphoria....you'd have to be a Simpson diehard to remember this I guess
Homer and Happy Moments:-
Adam Gallash
Posts: 15641
Date Joined: 29/11/05
smudgespot
They look closely related to the smudgespot spinefoot we get up here in Exxy.
Site Admin - Just ask if you need assistance
Gjoe
Posts: 68
Date Joined: 18/09/10
Carnarvon Jetty
I think I remember reading something about this fish at the carnarvon jetty on a poster.
Watch out lol sounds painful
Glenn Moore
Posts: 228
Date Joined: 13/02/12
Black Rabbitfish
These are Black Rabbitfish Siganus fuscescens. They are not uncommon around Perth, but I've never heard of them in the sort of numbers you are reporting. Black Rabbitfish (or Spinefoot) are found from near Perth, around the north and down to around the NSW/Vic border. There are 13 species of spinefoot in WA.
All the spines - dorsal, anal and pelvic are venomous. I know of two explanations for the name 'happy moments', which is applied to all the species: 1) ironic reference to the very unhappy experience, and 2) description of the antics of someone who just got stung - jumping and dancing. [for the record - 1st aid with any fish stings is hot water, as hot as you you can handle without burning yourself]
They are good eating.
Glenn Moore
Curator of Fishes
Western Australian Museum
twitter @WestOzFish
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18007
Date Joined: 11/03/08
maybe if more people ate
maybe if more people ate these things there would be less around. sometimes the risk of a sting isnt worth the feed.
good bit of info there Glenn
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Spot on
I'll vouch for the second reasoning behind the name "Happy Moments", that;s exactly what I was doing for several minutes after getting stung up at Quobba a few years back. I looked like a proper looney.
On another note, I'd just like to echo Leemo's comment about how good it is to have Glenn share his knowledge on these species questions. Maybe Glenn can have a scan through the Fishwreckapedia thread and add a few more comments that might help with the tough ones.
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
roberta
Posts: 2773
Date Joined: 08/07/08
Also brown vinegar (good one)
My late husband got blue bottle stings on his hands while bring in the sea anchor and luckily we had brown vinegar on board, no pain after washing his hands with it. Got b/vinegar in the boat, and two cars.
Ginger Tablets Rock
Browny
Posts: 316
Date Joined: 04/01/11
Smudgespot Spinefoot
Saw a few more of these caught today at the yacht club jetty in Rocko.
I reckon these are the Smudgespot Spinefoot, and not the Black Spinefoot as per above.
Due to the smaller smaller first spike in the anal fin and the prominent black blotch behind the upper edge of the gill cover, I believe they are the Smudgespot Spinefoot, (siganus canaliculatus). This is differentiated succinctly in the WA Museum book 'The Marine Fishes of North Western Australia, by Allen and Swainston.
I just love Exmouth: Its a quaint little drinking town with a fishing problem!
Glenn Moore
Posts: 228
Date Joined: 13/02/12
rabbitfish
You have stumbled onto a very difficult problem and it might not matter to most readers of this forum. In fact, the jury is still out on whether the two are separate species, although the current concensus is that they are two species. This is the problem of relying entirely on field guides to make IDs. The paintings that Gerry Allen (he is a retired colleague of mine) used in his book are not completely diagnostic - for example, the different length of the fin anal fin spine cannot be used to distinguish between the two species. However, the biggest confusion for these drab coloured rabbitfishes is the fact that Gerry used only a single painting for each species (for obvious reasons of space), and used the mottled variation for S. canaliculatus (Smudge-spot). In fact, both species (and another drab species from east Africa) can display identical colouration. This 'fright' pattern includes 6 dark brown zones alternating with 6 paler ones; various dark bands and bars around the head and often a dark brown patch immediately behind the gill operculum (cover). It is what most people see when they catch either species (same applies to Adam's comment above about smudge-spot in Exmouth - they might not all be smudge-spots - both species are common there). In a publication on the group, the expert in these fishes wrote 'Clearly this pattern ... has no diagnostic value'.
So, if you haven't given up reading this yet, why do I think it is Black Rabbitfish?
It all comes down to those pearly coloured spots.
Black Rabbitfish S. fuscescens: 180 - several hundred pearly spots, least distance between them about the same as their diameter. More than 20 staggered rows of spots (from top to bottom of fish)
Whitespotted Rabbitfish (this is the correct name for Smudge-spot ... but that is another explanation) S. canaliculatus: 100-200 pearly spots, space between spots greater than size of spots. About 13 rows of spots, top to bottom.
For the record, these are very very difficult to tell apart and are often confused - even by experts. To be honest, when I am doing field surveys, I only confidently apply a name to a proportion of what I actually see - they often get recorded as S. fuscescens/canaliculatus because I'm not convinced one way or the other.
[2 things to add:
1. if you have the new edition of Gerry's book and can't figure out which fish I'm talking about, S. fuscescens is incorrectly labelled as S. nebulosus.
2. the 'standard' common name for these fishes is now Rabbitfish rather than Spinefoot - that's why I use it, but I'm sure it makes little difference for most anglers]
Glenn Moore
Curator of Fishes
Western Australian Museum
twitter @WestOzFish
Leemo
Posts: 3712
Date Joined: 22/02/07
mate, how do i go about
mate, how do i go about getting your job? haha, its wicked having you on here Glenn, for a professional answer, and most off, opinion!
bludgin' since 94'
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
agree leemo
do you need an apprentice Glenn ? , always good for the answers thanks Glenn
axey45
Posts: 1758
Date Joined: 26/11/13
Hour of agony, had them at
Hour of agony, had them at the montes around the houseboat.
fisheater
Posts: 32
Date Joined: 10/04/14
black spine foot
might be a black spinefoot
Ziggy_Cosmo
Posts: 22
Date Joined: 27/04/14
Denham pier
The mrs and I caught about 5 of them last week off the end of Denham pier, looked exactly like Turbo Tim's, didn't look too friendly or edible really and all were small- around 20cms, happily threw them back, our thoughts after looking em up were black spinefoot as suggested.