What the hell is it with Braid??

Hi everyone,

I've just got back into fishing and have being going quite regularly for the last 3 weeks. I bought a Penn Spinfisher 750SSM and loaded it with 30lb braid and attached to a 50lb shock leader. The shop spooled it and attached the leader. The bloke used a double uni knot to attached the braid to the mono and I have no complaints about the knot strength, worked a treat. This was the recommendation from many people I asked and from info I gathered on the net. The rod I have for now is a Penn Big Game 11ft rod that was given to me for free, very happy with that. I think its a 12 - 15kg rod, I'd have to check. I mainly want to go for Tailor and Mulloway.

For the last 3 weeks I have been just been using size 5 gang hooks with mullies (sometimes a sinker if its windy so I can cast out further) and a trying a 3oz plug lure that I'm learning to use. It has been the most painful experience to date fishing with braid. Yes this is my 1st time using braid. Everybody I spoke to said Braid is the way to go but I have had nothing but trouble. The only person who said stay away from braid was a work mate who is a rod builder. To be honest I wasn't 100% sure about braid but thought, hey everyone's using so it must good?

I've just had tangle after tangle with this stuff. Probably getting 3-4 cast trouble free. When I cast out I made sure the line is not too loose before closing the bail and that it is around the spool and also reeled in with some tension. I look after my gear and always wash it down with fresh water and wipe down the rod/reel. The 2 things that have been happening are;

- Sometimes when I cast it goes out say 100m, lands and then this massive tangle is created about 1m after the tip or the rod. Its like a clump of braid mangled together, I haven't seen this before.
- The other thing is when I cast, it will tangle mid flight and then just slam into water. Crazy stuff.

I've been very lucky that the knots are very strong and I haven't lost anything during a cast. Lost plenty so far as I was casting too close to the reef, that's just part of the process I guess. I've been able to untangle all the knots until last nights fish off Ocean Reef rocks. Best way to explain what the tangle looked like is to picture unspooling about 20m of braid, rolling it in your hands and then just throwing it! Similar to a cat playing with a ball of wool haha. As annoying as it is I always enjoy a fishing session. Always fun!!

Sorry for the long forum topic but I thought I better put this out there on fish wrecked and hear what others have to say. Im open to feedback and constructive criticism before I get it re-spooled with mono. Maybe its too much for a newbie??


opsrey's picture

Posts: 1199

Date Joined: 05/10/07

Need tension on line.

Sun, 2013-06-02 17:20

 Must wind the one back on with tension. Others will have some good ideas of getting tension with light bait or light lure retrieval.

Perhaps go to lo stretch mono. :)

Posts: 21

Date Joined: 16/05/13

To be honest most of time I

Sun, 2013-06-02 18:53

To be honest most of time I do unless I got a tangle and then had no tension and just reeled it back on the spool. Did some more reading and thought about the low stretch mono? I was thinking of the platypus low stretch?

Webby's picture

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What braid are you using

Sun, 2013-06-02 17:37

What braid are you using mate? Some braids are better suited to casting than others. Also perhaps your spool is too full? or maybe try a swivel as some spinning reels will twist the line as it lays it on. (not sure about the pens) Hope that helps a bit mate.

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Date Joined: 16/05/13

Finor braid. I actually did

Sun, 2013-06-02 18:55

Finor braid. I actually did think that maybe my spool was to full and it may have been spooled incorrectly. It would surprise me if this was the case as the guy at my local fishing store knows his stuff, serious fisherman.

chris raff's picture

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Line twist by the sounds of

Sun, 2013-06-02 17:41

Line twist by the sounds of it .. if any slack line is twisting on itself . Presume your using swivels and with no running sinker direct on braid .. Maybe a respool could be in order .

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Date Joined: 16/05/13

I used a swivel when running

Sun, 2013-06-02 18:58

I used a swivel when running gang hooks but no swivel when just running the 3oz plug. Ran both of the leader not direct off braid.

sammy85's picture

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 I have been told by someone

Sun, 2013-06-02 18:12

 I have been told by someone at a tackle store that something to do with the spool lip on those penns that you should only use a stuff line like fireline. I got one spooled up with 30lb fireline and haven't had a problem with it

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Date Joined: 16/05/13

Fireline

Sun, 2013-06-02 19:00

Im assuming your talking about firline braid? Ive got fireline on my light 7ft 7-8kg setup, its mono and ive had no problems with it

Posts: 297

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Maybe it's the reel

Sun, 2013-06-02 18:22

 Most of the reels recently have been designed to cast braids. Most reels like shimano uses technology like aero wrap, which when you wind your braid in it doesn't dig into the braid that's already on the spool. When you cast, the line comes off the reel more consistently. Not sure what the penn spinfisher has done to aid casting lighter braids.

i recently use a stradic fi 5000 with 20lb for casting mulies from the shore and had no issues. Still use mono for my other beach reel( shimano baitrunner 6500) for casting big, heavy rigs. Still haven't built up enough balls to launch heavy rigs using heavy braid. Afraid of losing fingers and the end of my rod if it wraps around during a big launch:)

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Date Joined: 16/05/13

Thanks for the info,

Sun, 2013-06-02 19:02

Thanks for the info, appreciate. I was thinking Platypus brand mono? Ive heard great stuff about it and the only thing negative is that some people say it has too much stretch for them. Support OZ made stuff where I can. Any other recommendations?

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Date Joined: 22/07/10

 penn spinfishers are old

Sun, 2013-06-02 19:26

 penn spinfishers are old school with a round shoulder/lip made for mono.the person who spooled that should of know and left it under spooled.it is best to keeping it tight on the reel even more so for a spinfisher.if you are going to use fire line on you reel use 20lb as it is fused and 30 lb wont cast as far compared to 20 lb, it breaks far above its nominated breaking strength. 

Splashback's picture

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Date Joined: 25/06/12

spinfishers

Mon, 2013-06-03 09:32

and fin nors are way old technology and they way they lay the line is not up to what braid requires. I used a fin nor and fireline, 30lb, all last year and absolutely got the s#$ts with it. Beach fishing only. Less line, mono leader, one or two swivels, I tried everything. Have now upgraded to a better reel with oscillation in they way it lays line. That is it speeds up as it reaches the end of the spool and prevents the uneven lay on the spool. I also changed to power pro braid. It is rounder and doesn't catch on itself so much. The other points about keeping it firm on the reel are true too. The line tangle at the end of the cast is from previous casts not retrieved tightly and the loose stuff gets picked up as it unspools, and twist. I have gone back to the kiss principle exclusively. braid main line, small swivel with sinker leader, soft bead then main swivel with mono leader and hooks attached. Make both leaders around the same length, about 600mm. This rig best if baits and sinker weigh about the same. Generally I use a 2 or 3 size star, 4 if its rough.
I believe the sensitivity of braid versus the stretch and forgiveness is a winner. I have spent hours and hours in varying conditions testing this at the beach. Biggest factor is knots...... When it comes to the bigger fish there is great merit in a long mono leader for shock absorbtion but I had too many 'issues' to continue with it. I have gone to a softer rod to avoid some bust offs and even bought a drag checker to accurately set drags up. I am targeting big mullas etc.
Good luck.

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I was having similar

Mon, 2013-06-03 12:11

I was having similar problems, similar line weights, I'm using Fins wind tamer.

For me, it was the fluro side of the double uni knot, with a min of 5 wraps the knot is just a bit big, it was getting caught for a split second as it went through the guides, but with the line flying off the reel so fast it caused the line to overtake the uni knot and tangle at varied places in the line. 

I tied on a fg knot and the problem vanished, but now I just forego the wind on leader unless I absolutely need it and just use a shorter leader that doesn't go through my guides with a double uni.

You might be experiencing a different problem altogether, that's just my experience, hope you get it sorted.

Deano

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Date Joined: 16/05/13

You wouldn't believe it!

Tue, 2013-06-04 18:17

I went to another fishing store on Monday as my local was shut and showed them my line and the awesome tangle. The guys at the shop looked at me and said " thats not 30lb braid, thats at least 50lb or closer to 60lb braid. Also the spool is too full. The spinfisher reels have an upper lip on the spool that's asking for the ling to come off if its to full ". The guys at the store showed me 30lb braid and i was amazed at how thin it was. Thanks to everyone for there advice, tips and knowledge!! I'll see how i go with the mono for a while and when i start landing tailor or mulloway big enough to snap my line then i will change haha  

I have gone back to mono for now and using Platypus 10kg low stretch mono with the Rovex Mono 60lb leader!

TheJettyRat's picture

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I usually recomend mono with

Fri, 2013-06-07 14:48

I usually recomend mono with those Penn's, they are a nightmare with braid.

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mjohns's picture

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Date Joined: 11/01/07

I have 3 penn spinfishers

Fri, 2013-06-07 15:00

I have 3 penn spinfishers with 50lb braid and havent had a tangle yet... (touch wood)

 

Have put hundreds of casts out using them aswell, im betting your spool was a tad full..

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 Funny that everyone says

Fri, 2013-06-07 15:05

 Funny that everyone says spinfishers are useless with braid. I've been running braid on 4 of my spinfishers for years with no problems at all. Fireline, power pro, td sensor, sunline super pe, bionic & a couple of other brands, no tangle problems with any of them.

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 Just because I smile & nod does not mean I believe the crap coming out of your mouth.

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psion's picture

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Braid my 2c worth

Fri, 2013-06-07 19:30

Mate sounds like your braid is twisting,

I had a simular problem with my 650ss I found that as soon as I fished too light the bait was rolling in the surf and twisting the Braid.

some ideas:

1st off, go to the beach, (take a mate with you) walk down the beach and unwind your braid all of it. then apply a bit of tension to the braid just above the reel  and reel it in again, allowing the braid to un twist as you reel in.

then put about 50 m of "top-shot" (mono line on top of the braid)

make sure that you use top notch swiwels of the corrent size, poor quality or to big and they don't swivel so the lines twist

Howa Hunter's picture

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Same story as mjohns and

Tue, 2013-06-11 20:43

Same story as mjohns and cityflicker. I have 4 spinfishers 3 with 50lb and 1 with 30lb braid and have never had a problem. Your line needs to be able to untwist when retrieving. If it can't your next cast will be painful!! If your line isn't untwisting you need to figure out why. Cheers

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Thanks everyone!!

Fri, 2013-06-14 10:53

Thanks for all the reply's and advice, appreciate it!

Bodie's picture

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Harry reading your post mate,

Fri, 2013-06-14 15:18

Harry reading your post mate, my exact thoughts were the line class your running is too heavy for your rod / reel.

 

The same goes with smaller outfits.. Running heavy / thicker braid and out of the line class of the rod, often generates these knots, known as wind knows.

 

someone who has more knowledge than me may answer this question, but a couple of people in this thread have referred to the braid 'twisting'... i was under the impression braid does not twist like mono does.

Mate i have a pen 850SS running 20lb braid, which is fitted to a 14ft snyderglass for beach fishing... I can tell you I've never had a wind knot, and if your running the right line class for your gear you should be able to pump out casts twice as far as you can with mono (I've never seen anyone come close to casting the distances i can).

brayds's picture

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 ive got a penn slammer with

Wed, 2013-06-26 19:16

 ive got a penn slammer with briad and had no issue. id say take some line off, if that doesnt work get some new line