Thanks mick.

*increased bag limit for dhus in the southern zone a bad move imo.I believe it was already a well balanced and sustainable bag limit previously.

* a person living in some areas overseas has more access to fresh wa seafood than the local fisho living across the road from the beach in the west coast zone that pays there regos,licences fees,taxes ect

Start with the pore old iconic dhuie.  Give them a chance to breed instead of eradicating the species. And boat limits are a joke . Max of 4 fish . I understand 2 fish each

 The dhu no size limit is IMO ridiculous. Shallow water fish can be caught and released. Slow retrieval,  decompression stop, and increased education around care for a small fish can all help survivability.  The one hook ( bait) is stupid, what difference dose it realy make!  2 hook paternoster is fine. A two dhufish per person is not sustainable one was ok move on and target another fish. The closures that don't encompasses breeding season is not using the closures properly. The professional open season and no size limit dose nothing for sustainability.  All these things shows little common sense to the average person.  It shows politicians put votes and environment in the same bag, when environment should be the only concern opening the season during school holidays is a sweetener for the public but doesn't help the breeding aggregations. I'd like to see the rules reflect the science more clearly. If they are breeding don't hunt them. The swan river crab fisherie bag limit was just simply halved.  But boat limit stayed the same but with 2 extra payed license on board.  What dose that say! They call it a trophy waters, just up the size limit like marron instead of 127mm make it 132mm with a close season and bag limit of 7/8 per person or boat limit of 20. Good onya Mic hope it goes well.

 The length of the ban

 I would like to see an explanation from the Minister and Department of the pathway to reduced impact that these rules anticipated. I mainly fish inshore species but target pinks  in <20m depths a few times a year for a special meal or whatever. Never have taken more than 6 fish a year and have enjoyed very good fishing with plenty of fish in the 65-75cm size.. So the way the rules are I will still go and take the same  per year I hope, just fishing when permitted. As for dhus I occasionally get small ones 50-55cm and chuck them back, but I would keep any >60cm. So these new rules make no difference to the small amount of pressure I personally put on the stock. Consequently I am wondering just how they are supposed to be effective, as maybe there are many recfishers like me that just chase the occasional demersal. If the intention was to halve the pressure by banning demersals for 6 months a year then that simply is not how people go about it. I also don't know any recfisher that goes fishing every day of the year. I'm  reasonaly keen, but fish solo a lot and typically get out on average once a wek, racking up about 200 motor hours. It's also a fact thet people don't catch their bag every trip, somy feeling is that over any given year the average fisher is catching way less than the permitted bag limit would come to if you fished every day and bagged out. So I reckon there are some dodgy assumptions being used in the calculations, or maybe just wishful thinking. A clear walk through  what those are and how they came to the conclusion this woudl work is lacking.

Allowing charters access all year and allocating their catch as rec's catch. That needs changing.

But surely we don't want more restrictions?  Also length of ban for sure. The people that rarely get out due to work are screwed over.

 Or landbased pinkies

Mick C, your efforts are much appreciated.

West Coast Angling Club - A not for profit Recreational Fishing club;
The West Coast Angling Club has origins dating back to 1904.
It is a not for profit recreational fishing club that has a 30foot old ex-cray boat penned in Two Rocks Marina and takes a maximum of 8 club members out fishing on trips.
These new rules are putting the future existance of this club in danger.
In January after a successful boat trip out, we returned to the marina with our recreational limit of 16 demersals, last week it was 4 and we now struggle to get enough crew for planned trips to go ahead.
The club strictly abides by the recreational fishing rules and have previously even returned Dhufish less than 55cm (as a club rule).
We educate our members to bring up possible Dhufish catches slowly to give them every chance of being returned healthy.

Dhufish stocks;
I am hearing many reports from recreational boat owners who will likely high grade with an aim to catch the 4 largest Dhufish they can in a days fishing.

Recreational owners of larger boats are now further encouraged to travel outside of the West Coast Bioregion putting further pressure on other WA fish stocks.
Meanwhile these new rule changes have a high probability of increasing the number of our iconic West Australian Dhufish caught per year by many smaller boat owners who regularly fish. It needs to be again stated that the 4 months demersal ban increase (from 2 months to 6 months) is a 40% reduction in days available to fish and take Dhufish. But the average recreational boat fisher will now likely keep more than twice as many per trip, given there is no longer a size limit and the individual and boat limit catches have doubled.

Many of us have been left scratching our heads trying to understand the logic behind these changes.
 

 Enjoyed the evening, going to be hard for them now

All of our rules are based on the fact that there is an issue with sustainability with Dhufish and snapper stocks.  I think everyone on this forum will disagree that there is a problem with snapper stocks, as I have never seen so many Juvenile snapper in the last 50 years as there are now.  They have invaded most of my whiting spots and are a pest.  They are everywhere.

This is part of my argument though, there is no real data on the populations of dhufish and snapper stocks.  If the scientists are saying there is a problem with snapper stocks, they are clearly wrong.  Are they wrong about Dhufish stocks as well?  I don't know, and nor do they.  The only data they use is heresay or old ramp surveys and is mainly based in the metro or nearby area.  In 2019 they said stocks were recovering adequately and ther was no need for action - using the same data.

We  need to firstly establish if there is an issue, and base the decision on real data and real fish surveys in the water, not the icebox.  They need to spend a lot of government money (from our boat and fishing and trailer licenses) to establish the facts. 

Personally, I think that while the metro area will always be fished hard regardless of rule changes, the remaining 70% of our coastline out of a 20nm reach of boat ramps acts as a natural reserve and allows restocking of those more heavily fished areas.

We need facts, not guesses, and this is most important to establish if the species is actually in danger.  If so, tightening of rules may be required, or vice versa.

 The zone is way too big! destroys fishing towns with less pressure than metro.

The one hook is a challenge for deep dropping, and there are so few people doing this - why should they be put in the same category as dhufish? Just a one size fits all. 

It is hard to agree with the rules when the data was not made transparent. 

 Show us the methodology used to identify death rate of returned demersals. If the so called science hasn't been peer reviewed it is not scientifically proven.

Show us the data that identified recreational catch numbers.

Besides my daughters basketball, getting out on my boat for a fish or dive is what keeps me sane...its all I think off mostly. While I'm not a fan of the reduced fishing periods for Demersal it is what it is.

Most of the new rules, including removing size limits and change in rigs used were also proposed by recfishwest.

I believe in science and would rather this be Implemented than to continue as we were.

They have state wide boat fishing surveys every two three years, science and surveys across a wide area...Its almost continuous.

If there's anything I could add, its the assistance for small business affected.

Good Luck.

https://www.fish.wa.gov.au/Fishing-and-Aquaculture/Recreational-Fishing/Pages/Western-Australian-Recreational-Boat-Fishing-Survey.aspx

https://www.fish.wa.gov.au/Fishing-and-Aquaculture/Recreational-Fishing/Pages/default.aspx

Limits/also sizes . And just extended ban . I love fishing ,these new rules will murder stocks .

The problem with the new rules are they rely on people doing the right thing. They would actually be ok if people did what DPIRD want us to do. That is you keep the first two fish you catch no matter of size or species. Once your bag is reached you move on to another form of fishing or go home. Trouble is upgrading and releasing other species to get more dhuies. 

 Not going to be a popular idea but I would like to see a maximum size to discourage the knobs that upsize  for facebook photos I am sure a lot of fish die because of this. Maybe 850mm size.

I understand the reasoning behind the decision...but fish in less than say 15-20m really do not suffer barotrauma.

Drive down the coast and see all the boats out fishing and diving in close.

Crazy that any dhuie can be kept.

Have a size limit out to say, 20m

If people want to lie about the depth they caught a dhuie in, good luck to them but most will do the right thing.

Single hook is rediculous.  Double paternoster for me.

Four dhuie boat limit seems pretty generous.

 Saw a funny thing on facebook. Bloke was targeting skippy but got some small baldies. Asked why is that they dont release well during school holidays and you get to keep them, but outside of school holidays (season closed), they release just fine? 

 Ban braid and put a max breaking strain on line you can fish with.... No only joking but don't be suprised with this greeny run fisheries department.

 The 10 percenters.   The old addage that 10 percent of anglers catch 90 percent of the fish.  Now a lot of the 10 percenters will  fish to take 4 large jewfish. I specialied in catching jews when I lived in mandurah years ago and  I know a lot of other guys that did also. They are not hard to work out and you quickly rack up the gps spots.  A lot of guys will have there spots that hold big dhu. Now the only thing stopping them from doing the wrong thing say they catch a baldie or blackarse and throwing it back dead whilst going for four big dhu is there conscience.  There are a lot of people with no conscience when it comes to fishing.  Just look to up north with the boom in deep water demersal jigging. The loser in this arrangement are rankin cod that are being murdered in big numbers due to peoples infactuation of catching red fish only.  Banning people for 6 months fishing will probably even convert some of those with a conscience to do the wrong thing.  You cant win.  The only management tool that fisheries own is  banning you for 6 months. 

 Nothing will stop the upsizing flogs . Rules or a conscious mean nothing to them .  I and all my regular crew are self employed so we go when the weather suits . The wife likes that I have to take her squidding , crabbing and whiting/herring/skippy fshing for 6 months of the year now . Fish snobs and tiktok flogs will always whinge . Whatever

 Not sure where to start!

The size limit changes are wrong.

You don't get small breaksea cod out deep, most like 90% are under 15m heaps in under 10! not many over 25 at all. So the overwhelming majority of small fish will likely be caught by people who could have released them safely. 

Dhufish something like 14% die due to the nature of taking a bait deep in the gut (fisheries research). Rule should have been to use single in line circle hooks not one bait per rig. Also science they are using for mortalities is outdated, there are much better ways to gather the mortality rates from barotrauma. Many many dhu are caught under 30m where use of single in line circles and slow retrieve will see a reasonable survival rate. Why take the smallest of dhu's yet to even breed? Mortality rates are massive till a fish matures from larva and settles on the reef. Now we are impacting these smallest of fishes that have survived the odds preventing them from breeding. Should have at least been a size reduction to 40cm, not total removal. The 4 per boat rule well that is stupid asking for high grading and anyone with half a clue knows fish the heavy lumps and most the catch will be dhu. I belive come 2030, we will be looking at further restrictions on dhu. A better way forward would be to stop comercial fishing during breeding season and have a network of demersal sanctuarys up the coast, where fish are free to school as they did pre GPS unmolested. Larva will disperse on the currents and populate the whole coast. 

Baldie well most if not all will die at depth so fair enough but a lot of tiny ones can be caught very shallow <5m so there should be a size limit say 30cm. If you are fishing out deep for dhu big circle hooks rarely capture the small baldie, so again the use of in line circle hooks would be far better than a size limit removal. 

 It's a shame FATHOM is no longer on this site he did the filming for fisheries years ago when they were researching survival rates for dhues from what he told me it was 100%mortality though he did say no due over 15 kg went back in the water they were straight to the cool room 

 The stress of being in a cage would have significantly affected survival rates.  They would have a higher survival rate if they them let free and at least got a chance to recover without the stress of being in cage/sock. 

 Linked to new laws or too many lookalike stores in the area

Another issue would be breaking up the season into 3 separate ones, school holidays have nothing to do with sustainability. I get it is about looking after the small country towns like Lancelin where I live, during the first ban the beach was empty of boats launching and our local fishing club was failing to get enough interest to hold competitions. But the best thing for the fish is to protect them so they can school and successfully breed. 

However under the old system we have one closure and one opening, there is always a rush to fill the freezer before the ban and a mad rush to get out and hit up the dhu that have congregated on the lumps during the ban. Under the new system the gold rush mentality happens 6 times per year. 

 One of my feedback suggestions was a fish catch app.

Example:

You catch a fish, you have to photograph it within 5 minutes on a ruler mat, with the fish alive, and log your catch in the app.. If/when checked, your catch has to match the app record.

Once you log a fish, it can't be replaced in the app for that day - and the app is linked to your license (or the skippers/other persons).

Anyone thinking to upgrade needs to think about getting checked at sea (I know people who have been), or having a photo of a dead fish as they finish fishing for the day and they scramble to lock in their fish (equalling a fine/warning). 

Things like logging in on a fishing day before you head out would ensure some level of compliance. Ie, it would identify someone logging on a day then record a catch within 2 minutes, or doing it all at the end of the day before being checked.

I'm sure there are holes in that idea and it could be improved, but surely it (the intention) is better than putting your faith in the upgrading flogs. It will also log and track actual rec fishing numbers and provide data to support or rebuke the science and future decisions.

It's not perfect, but surely if we can map the sea floor in 3D while watching the footy via satellite and catch a fish, we can snap a photo in an app that works offline.

Log in before, close out the app after or when bagged out. We can all log into sea rescue, or snip a cray tail and it's not inconvenient, it's just another part of the process. 

And no, you can't use your mates app. The fish are linked to the license, the trip is linked to the boat - before you fish. Log too many fish against a boat rego for the day and no dice. The limits apply to the license and boat rego.

The skipper would be responsible for adding the fish into his/her app if out of range or if juniors/others don't have a device (as an example - and I take my 10yr old daughter to check pots with her own license). No different to a Commercial/Charter Skippers resposibility to log the catch. 

Guarantee if you have to log to fish, you'll remeber the phone & cable 99% of the time. A bit like the boat key, winch handle or the bung. You only forget once..

We are, after all - talking about logging 4 fish in the metro over the course of a day. 

To quote fisheries: It is the master of the boat's responsibility to ensure this rule is followed.

Re app, No,No & NO

dont go fishing to play with phones and apps,

would not even consider it

had a similar discussion re fisheries & new rules some time ago before new current rule books were printed, fisheries person suggest I go on line for info, back then fisheries weren't sure if books would be printed, I replied that I don't go fishing to go on line, don't have computer on board and not interested in playing with phone, we're as a book can be throw on dash for reference happy to see that we have books now

Have a nice day :) 

My 2c worth, errors as I see them are as follows:

1. Closed season for Dhus is inconsistent with stated objectives of the policy - if objective truly is to preserve Dhufish stocks then Dhufish should be protected during their spawning season, regardless of whether it coincides with school holidays or not, and regardless of whether you're a rec or pro fisher

2. Increased bag limit on Dhufish - I still don't understand how a 40% reduction in fishing time is meant to achieve reduction in take when it is accompanied by 100% increase in bag limit

3. No size limit on Dhufish and Baldies in shallow water - as stated by others they suffer less from barotrauma in shallow water, also in shallow water they are very vulnerable to spear fishing, speaking of which why not have a size limit on these species for spearos? Barotrauma is a non-issue if you're getting them on straight hook so a size limit for spearos would go a little way to protecting Dhu and Baldie stocks in shallow water as people would have to think about what they shoot as opposed to current state of affairs where they can pull the trigger without any thought

4. I haven't made up my mind yet if it is an "error" but the whole idea of no size limit on Dhus, and Baldies for that matter, really bothers me. I can see the Fisheries logic, if everyone took home the first two fish they catch regardless of size that would equate to less fish mortality, no argument there. But, the idea of releasing undersized fish is so ingrained in anglers' psyche that a lot of people will continue to do that, right, wrong or indifferent. And there is of course a percentage of the population motivated to get the big one that will continue releasing smaller models and will continue fishing until their quest for the big one is complete. Couple that with increased bag limits I think the poor Dhu hasn't got a chance. Greater fisheries presence on the water would provide more of a deterrant but there is fat chance of government committing more dollars to boost enforcement.

 Ive seen so many photos of the 4 10kg plus dhues on the deck makes me wonder how many black ass etc went back to get those 4 dhues.

whats wrong with the new rules?.... everything :/

went for a fish on saturday. anchored within the 3 mile with the intention of targetting snapper. and caught a dhu at 55cm and a baldy at 50. (yup, was a nice surprise!)

then pulled up 2 dhues which would have been aorund about 35-40cm. looked at my mate and told him no. we were in 9m of water and had an inkling it may be a dhue so slow retrieve, and the fish never left the water. swam away like rockets.

so we are supposed to keep those. we moved and decided to go trawling instead of pulling up any more small dhues.

where we were fishing is accesible to anyone with a kayakl or tinny, so i feel that so many more fish are goign to be taken out of the system regardless of the extended closures .

i can understand the mortality issues with fish getting caught in deeper water. but there are lots of spots in close with small fish and these are going to be hammered.

 The rules of 2 dhu per person is a good idea saves releasing dhus to get baldies.   In my experience sometimes dhus on chew sometimes baldies and the others 

last trip we came back with 3 baldies one dhu.    Few  week back  3 dhus one baldie. 

I think it should be recommend 500mm limit

if the  dhu fish is in good condition, well cared for and vented for release it should be able to.
As  by this size they have reached maturity and had atleast a chance to breed, i don't think it's good to take too many small fish out the biomass, and a 50/50 chance is worth that in my opinion especially if you're keeping ones that have lesser likelihood of survival 

Because If fish is showing signs of barotrauma and not much chance of survival it should be kept.  

I agree with no size limit on break sea  and baldchin as they  don't get massive  and have a higher death rate.

Increase in time to be allowed to catch would be good for someone like myself who may get out once Every other month. Sometimes I get out often sometimes it's months apart, this ban makes it hard and people may end up taking more risks and go out in less favourable conditions because cause they may miss an opportunity to get out for a while.

 I like how there were a lot of people preaching about post release mortality before these rules came in, which in my opinion fueled these dumb arse rules. Now when everyone realises how screwed up everything is there is not a peep coming from the post release mortality brigade. It's clear the squeaky wheel got the oil, but at what cost. Haven't heard boo from fisheries or their supreme leader since dropping the bomb regardless of the pressure they are surely receiving. What chance do fish stocks have if there is no actual "research" happening. Also funny how dhuies were soo scarce before these rules but now there are a lot of full dhu bags of 8kg+ fish. Seems to me these rules are to please the people not protect the stocks. Or let the people tie our own nooses

 Is as more up in arms about the size decrease /bag limit increase than over the ban duration.( I ) as rec  fishermen can handle a pause, if it meens sustainability of species and target somthing else to put on the plate. "Not happy Jan " if a pause becomes a ban for eternity due to substanciated science for the sake of control! If not before this was implimented , now they (fisheries etc) shouild listen to what the reasonable fishos are saying. 

Caught a shitload of baldies over easter . Yum Yum! tight lines

 This just my opinion, but take Foxfish, Blackarse and Baldies out of the equation. That's the common theme here.

As we all know the new rules have not alleviated the problem of upsizing in fact made it worse by allowing 4 Bangers. 

So allow the other fish as a by catch with a max of two per fisher to alleviate the "dead fish floating in the sea" problem.

Better to have them eaten and not wasted, it won't cure the upsizing problem but will help. 

Honestly it put even guys like me to the moral test if you pull up a Foxy knowing you'd rather have a Big Dhuie in it's place, we are still legally alowed to release the Foxy or Baldie etc but as we know  they don't release well.