Can't say there is much of a suprise there. Personally I think it is a good thing, depending upon how much gets cut and if they still give the fisherman a fair go.

I'd prefer the freezer limit to be cut mainly, not such an issue in the metro, but up here it needs to go from 20kg down to 10kg per person, theres just way too many people up here abusing it. Oh, my wife caught those 20kg's, she was out on the boat all day everyday, even thou she still managed to knit 20 jumpers while she was here and gossip with all the local ladies, cough cough splutter splutter... Then you speak to their wives and catch them out 2 minutes later, sad really.

How many kgs of fish from the recs are you logging Adam

just curious

Wally

I can't say due to confidentiality, but lets just say its a lot. I spoke to a guy that knows a guy that knows a guy, last year the shire weighed only the fish bins over the two week July school holiday period. Apparently, over those two weeks there was 11 tonnes of carcasses and guts weighed. If its true, I don't know, but I'll sure have a bit of an idea in a few weeks.

Yeah sorry mate for being intrusive,i thought that would be the case.

another question which you may be able too answer in your view are you logging the majority of fisherman/ anglers or is there a higher % getting past the gates

11 tonnes of frames and guts in 2 weeks hey. wow .say you get 30 to 40% waste so that figure of 11 tonne is more then 30 tonne of fish in 2 weeks wow, can that be sustained, you would have to wonder wouldn't you.

Wally

The way I see some people fillet up here, i'd go almost to say 50% of waste, then again, thats certainly not everyone. The problem will be when they reduce the freezer limits that people will only take the prime shoulder area to take back south and the percentage of wasted fish will increase. So the bag limits will be a necessary requirement as well to stop the fill the freezer mentality and the slabbing of prime shoulder area only. The problem will then come from people getting a 20 kilo + mackie, not want to take their 10kg freezer limit (when the cuts come) in mackerel fillets, gaff it and throw it back for the sharks.... It can open up a whole can of worms. Having said that, nearly 80% of people that I talk to are relatively conservation minded and prefer to catch for fun, have a feed and a little bit for the freezer, rather than continuously pursue their 20kg each everyday. I have no problem with fishing for the freezer, I just find that a group of 6 blokes that need 120kg worth of fish is a little overkill. Especially the guys that try and justify the price of a kg of fish vs the costs of coming to get them. To me it looses what fishing is all about, but thats my personal ethos on fishing and it varies from person to person.

As for the 11 tonnes figure, thats come from a local, so I'd probably half it and it would be more like it. Even then, still a significant figure. As for the survey design/effectiveness, I'll discuss that with you when I finish up my contract and decide weather I go into level 2 techo or head elsewhere.

This is how you manage a fishery apparently. Let it get ravaged to crisis point and then choke it off from users. Then win the Premiers award for outstanding service (re: Shark Bay snapper fishery).

Note that the species listed as possibly having cut quotas are not all found in one area - this is widespread, over-exploitation of our fisheries.

I do not support that it will have to happen, but i support it happening if it has to. There will be no other option. This should not be about the loss of our fishing amenity - it is about ensuring fishing amenity for following generations. This is our moral obligation to fellow future humans and the environment in which we survive.

Sort-of disappointed again with the reaction of RecFishWest in the paper though it was pretty much sitting on the fence which is good as it is early days - Frank Prokop saying that he doesnt see evidence that the fishery is under stress - does anyone out there agree with this assessment? I understand that it may not be a policy or whatever and is just a comment in the media, and no doubt it was a just a reaction and there is more work to be done etc etc - but... no evidence? To his credit he did say that if there was evidence that it was necessary then RFW would support it which is a fair call, RFW are looking out for us... it is very hard to prove such things in the marine environment - very difficult to get the scientific information at that base level. I hope that when the info comes out, whatever action to protect fish stocks is taken - without regard for commercial or recfisher angst. Without the fish both user groups wouldnt even exist, and we have had our way with the fish off this coast until only recently.

We should not push for less restrictions - we should push for better management - e.g. perhaps if the bag limits were reduced to 2 per person (and respective reduction in pro quotas too) 10 years ago, we would have a sustainable fishery now (of course this would have been vehemently opposed by rec and comm fishing groups). It is good that some action is happening now - i want sustained, adequate, ongoing research to continue to monitor and support it in the future, otherwise we might not be allowed to catch them at all if it crashes. And what about other fisheries, not just primo species? Herring anyone?

Maybe we wont have the concrete stats and science, but anecdotally - someone tell me where you can *regularly* catch WA Dhufish within - let throw it out there...5 or 10 nautical miles from Perth. or Blue Groper. or snapper out of spawning season. You may prove me wrong on the specifics above, but in general i am sure you agree with my point. Of course you can still catch them - but in fractional numbers compared to only 10 or 20 years ago. no evidence?

Anyone who has fished this coast for say 10 years will have seen the evidence. Serial depletion was the term given to me once before by Andy Mac i think. Serial depletion seems to be OK with some sectors of the rec fishing community. Its not their fault, poor dears - the way we have traditionally been brought up to regard the environment (Apparently God gave the Earth to Man...) makes it so - but these are the times when we have to recognise that we dont have exclusive rights over everything.

The sequential reduction in bag limits in recent years is both an indication that we are guessing at what needs to be done, as well as a recognition that the various fisheries are under too much stress as it is these bag limit reductions are reactionary - imagine how it will be in another 10 years when the resource boom leaves a legacy of alot of people with alot of money spending it on bigger boats and better technology. As it is regional centres have enormous increases in boat registrations and they are not 12 ft tinnies laden with handlines, a compass and a leadline...

I hope this is not yet another case when people try to use a lack of knowledge to obstruct a precautionary action - the consequences are too great. Oh yeah thats right apparently there is also no evidence that suggest no-take-areas have any influence on fish size and abundance. Oh except for all those scientific research reports...but what would they know? They werent even done in Australia right? Oh, except the ones that were...oh yeah...probably had faulty methods or something...(sarcasm)

I was very amused but almost cried when i read the comments by a recfisher in the paper this morning. He was apparently angry ('livid' - but thats the West for you). Poor guy has had to go further and further out to sea to catch his fish! Imagine that!! Unheard of!! I wonder why? and now it wont be worth going that far for just one dhuie! So - I am inferring that he might think it is better to get bigger and bigger and bigger boats and keep going further and further out to maintain his catch? And what about the other observation from a fellow who has been fishing for 53 years that he now needs to go up north to catch his fish. Here is the evidence. Plain, simple, very very easy to see - it just takes open eyes. You dont need scientifically, statistically robust data when you have 53 years worth of experience. What happens when everyone has to go up north to catch their fish? They catch 20-odd tonnes in two weeks, thats what (from Adams indicative 11 tonnes of carcasses...). Yes professional fishers catch probably the most, but we are also in on it in a big and ever-growing way. It may be a big ocean, but there are only so many lumps and bumps out there with fish on them, and i would not be surprised if everyone in Perth put their GPS spots together we would find that we know where every one of them was within 20NM.

I HATE that this may have to happen. I HATE when people dont see the forest for the trees. I HATE when i cant catch the fish cos...they arent there anymore. I HATE that I cant afford a boat big enough to let me go dhuie fishing. I HATE that people still resist things like no-takes or limit reductions etc - do you think that Dept of Fisheries are doing it 'just cos'? surely the political ramifications would be too great to do it 'just cos'? Think about what you can and cant do on land, where you can and cant go etc, and compare that to the ocean - it is still relatively open-slather out there.

I hope when it comes time to comment, people think not of themselves but of the fish, and of history.

thats it! no more from me!

Ewan

I think the statement of forest from the trees aptly sums up the situation. So many anglers individualised can't see the damage as a collective, except for when they use statements that 'it ain't like it used to be,' well, why do you think that is? Overfishing? Unsustainable? Slow growing demersel species really don't stand a chance against a human population which is ever increasing and demanding more food and resources on a day to day basis.

I couldn't agree more with taking a pro-active rather than reactive measures to managing our fishery. The development of aquaculture bred fish may one day remove the necessity of professional fishermen, decrease the costs of fish at the shops and possibly remove the need for fishing for the freezer. Until that day thou, we need to have other methods to balance the ledger as the fish in the current environment stand little chance. Whilst this may sound like a very green attitude, I love my fishing as much as the next guy, if not more, its just that we need to start thinking outside the box. We need to consider the impact of us, the recreational as a whole. Every boat ramp of every weekend theres 30 odd boats, all heading within 30 miles of the coast, all looking for the same sort of ground, all looking for the same sort of fish. Do this for every weekend, during the week, include the fluctuations of boaties up and down over holidays etc and consider some of these fish take 10 years plus to get to a size where we can get a decent fillet off them. In my mind the math doesn't quite add up and once again, the ledger needs to be balanced.

For Recfishwest I see it as having to sit in the middle, can't afford to edge too far in support of reduction measures as it will lose the support of its core, representing the recreational fishermans rights.

As a concerned angler for both the environment and the fisherman, the end result of these reductions won't affect things overly, we can still go fishing and catch fish, we just can't take home as many. Which ultimately means there will be more fish for the future and it gives us more incentive to get out there and do it... Sure, the cost of catching and keeping a fish will go up, but in my mind, if thats how you determine a good day, your fishing for the wrong reasons.

Thats my opinion though and I welcome alternative thoughts.
Cheers,
Adam

yeah no worries Terry - i hoped as much - you always have to take what that paper says with a grain of salt...i know that RFW is very proactive on these issues...re: crabs, snapper etc in the past, etc. But it has also disappointed me greatly on other issues, I hope not this one. RFW have done a great job in this issue and i trust they will continue, in the coming debate. As long as the enhancement of fish stocks is the priority, not the reduction of a percieved loss of fishing amenity.

i hope that everyone keeps the big picture in mind - we are lucky to be able to catch even just one of any of these fish, especially compared with fisheries in the rest of the world. i believe that mentalities are changing rapidly and that people would accept changes that are needed. Yet there will be many many people with reactions like those described in the paper today, and this is what i write about. Perhaps only being allowed to catch one would heighten the appreciation for them, people will eat every skerrick of them and value the prize even more. on the other hand some may keep every fish and just take home the biggest. and yet others would chance the risk of being caught. I would hope that with (if necessary and i believe it is) tightened restrictions would come greater enforcement but we will see...

the greatest pleasure i get out of going fishing is being there - catching the fish just makes me remember what made me get out there in the first place! Catching one instead of two, or two instead of four wouldnt change a thing for me. People who say it wont be 'worth it' anymore are in it for the wrong reasons in my opinion. The majority of the world doesnt have the opportunities we have to enjoy such a beautiful place in safety and freedom, and to boot we have big, delicious fish to catch! one of which is enough to fill many bellies.

Ewan

We have the opportunity right now to keep it all forever, through Marine Conservation Reserves, reducing pro fishing quotas, reducing rec fishing quotas, and promoting the values of sustainability and appreciation of the environment for its whole, not just for its meat. We are on the edge, at the crux and all that, right now. this is the time for progressive thinking and attitude changes cos - if we deny what needs to be done now it will be another couple of governments before it comes up again...when it may be too late. It is now, in this generation, that it has to happen.

Ewan

Put this back into perspective a bit.

here we have the minister of the day reducing the commercial catch by 40%. then 2 weeks later he has announced that the rec sector is going to be hit with 50%, this may not sound fair but i will get to that later

so what the minister is saying, he is going to halve the total catch by near on 50% from both sectors.. which in my opinion is needed, sadly we are lumped with slow growing under performing fish and we have to live with it and manage it accordingly after 40 years of miss management

Think about this, what papers has the minister got on his desk to suggest that the fishery is in trouble, I dare say it, but some of us were right, this is what we have been trying to say for many of years across a few websites, in some ways, yeah i could of overstepped the mark and again i will apologize but i didn't need a paper to say that this is what we needed.

OK the wetline review has taken 10 years to come to fruition but its a hot potato, Honestly think of the ramifications that this will cause, You are coming up against a industry with huuuuuge amounts of money and votes, No other minister has touched this with a ten foot pole even thou one started it, but this one has, and i urge everyone to send a email of thanks, He has got balls to fix the fishery and the decision made in the next months are crucial, if anyone thinks this is finished you wait to the specifics come out.

Here is my prediction and back to the unfairness

no commercial fishing for demersals between Lancelin and Port bouvard which is a big one . Don't get excited because this is where it goes bang. you will have a no take zones, closed areas to help the demersal species spawn on their terms with no interference

you will have a reductions as stated, with boat limits chucked in to boot

You may even have a tag system with log books, even a lotto where Adam sits at home and Andy mac goes fishn

Hell you may even have a salt licence to pay for the whole shootn match

I don't care either way, I am glad this minister has the balls to ensure that the fishery is there for our kids, and gets my vote hands down.

And these are my thoughts and others but you wait and see, these decisions are needed and cant be compromised

Wally

no worries Adam I understand about the questions

I found the whole "justification thing" pretty funny on my first trip up north. Each night I heard around the tables after a few beers people doing the cost of fillets vs the cost of the trip thing. Kinda funny if you throw in the interest you would earn on the $80,000 for your boat + the running costs you would save on buying a small 4 cylinder car to drive around in instead of the F250 etc etc. If you ate fish twice a week for a couple the fuel it costs to tow your boat up to Exmouth or onslow would cover a fair bit of your fillet cost for the year so it does not stack up as a real argument, just people justifying the killing of fish. In a weeks fishing we took 10kg of fish between us, and I would happily have taken none, these were just the fish that were hooked deep or would not release, mainly goldspot cod and Chinaman + a mackie that was rooted. We had an absolute blast on Tuna, trevally and queenies and had the best session of my life on poppers one afternoon in a glass off. Had mackies up to 25kg hitting poppers and launching 6 ft in the air each time - awesome to be casting blindly and just getting hit every cast for an hour with three of us in the boat. BUT - the rest of the group were fishing within sight and caught nothing becasue they were bottom bashing and complained all night about how slow it was( not like it used to be).

I tried to have this fish for the future argument but I was shot down pretty quickly and realized that attitudes take a long time to change and that for these guys filling their freezer was the reason they had an 80000 boat, probably in the same way that many of us justify buying a Saltiga or Stella, which always gets you looks and generally a "you spent HOW MUCh on that", my Kmart Beach reel will catch just as many etc etc. They are probably right, but everytime I hooked up to a big Bluefin or Trevor casting a slug on my Stella I get a big smile knowing that I can lay in and it will only be my lack of Patience or a shark that stuffs it up.

I was lucky to be involved in the change of attitude that took place in SE Queensland during the past ten years, and it was really the humble Flathead that had a lot to do with it. Many of you would have read about the Flathead Classic on the Gold Coast each year. Now flathead, even big ones fight like wet bags, but they are damn tasty and you don't need a big boat to target them so they are pretty easy to flog out. If you look at the catch rates for the Competition each year they keep getting better most years, and this is a catch and release only. I think what happened is what started as a "fun" comp with an emphasis on research has led to a whole generation that now see the big breeders as pure gold through education and awareness on TV and fishing media.

One big problem I see in Perth is that most of our big breeders (dhuies) have a tendancy to die when caught in more that 40m. My wife refuses to fish in more than 20m because of this. Her only dhuie went 15kg and was nearly dead when it hit the floor of the boat as it had swallowed the Jig almost to its bumhole. Whilst we were elated at having caught it, not being able to release it was pretty sad and we packed it in the esky and went in for the day, and spent the next month trying to munch through a tonne of Fillets.

I catch plenty of Dhuies but have not taken one for ages because they are generally too much fish for the two of us to eat fresh and I don't think they freeze that well. I don't target them at all but they seem to like my jigs more than the YTK that I am targeting so we always catch a few.

When do Dhuies and Snapper reach a spawning size, are they like Barra and Flathead where your big ones are all breeders and can we introduce slot sizing on Females and make sure that each boat must have a release weight in the same way they must have life jackets etc. I have no idea on this but I have been blessed to have spent a fair bit of time on the water in the territory and SE Queensland and know what the attitude in both places are regarding precious stocks.

WA has without doubt some of the best fishing areas in Australia, I have chosen to make it home for my family and very much look forward to my first northern trip with my son in about 7 years. I also know that now is the time to take action to make sure that there is still something left by then.

Have to agree that the decision to act now without extensive research data is far better than to not act and risk losing the resource for ever. If it was found to be wrong then all the more fish for the future and perhaps (though I seriously doubt it) the restrictions could be eased in 5 years time if the data is supportive.

Good on the minister for having some balls, though the rec v commercial debate will continue to rage for the forseable future.

I watched the report as well and am glad that someone is finally doing something to protect our fish stocks.I continually get shot down by the usual crowd who call me a greenie for careing and doing what I can to protect the fish I catch.Have no dramas keeping a feed but really dislike when people go out continually and "stock" the fridge.If we can, as recreational fishermen, join with the commercial sector and do what we can by adhering to the catch limits that are imposed, we can enjoy this passion of ours not just for now but also for our children and their children.If we continually finger point at each other and blame the other side for lowering fish stocks we will get bloody nowhere!

Great to see a minister who appears to be doing what he is paid for and for having the aggates to stand up and making a stand.

Cheers OX

Fish greenie proud and true.

Terry,
I will watch it again this morning!
I didn't quite take it in as I had visitors.
Judging by your comments you also seem unimpressed by the coverage.
I'm concerned about the holes in the information which is passed out to the public and how they come up with the figures that they do.
If changes need to be made so that we have a sustainable fishing future(meaning amatures)they should be made.I'm concerned that our cuts will simply prop up the professional industry.
Terry you make mention of spawning in point 11.
If the fisheries is serious about protecting the spawning stock they would have pulled the prof/licence from the Cockburn sound years ago and simply reduced the amatures boat limit to 1 fish per boat for a short season.
The new cuts to the pro's will simply put more pressure on the spawning dhufish through summer.The fishing time available to them has been cut so they will simply fish smarter and target the fish when they're in their greatest numbers, ie spawning time.
Correct me if I'm misinformed Terry but they are still able to take as much fish as they can catch but it will be in a smaller time frame.
If this is the case the gun pro's will still take a similar amount of fish as they have in the past.
The last thing we need is poor management decisions to be made now and have disasterous measures put in place on us in 5 years such as the crabbing in Cockburn and Mandurah!
The amatures have taken the hit there for the pro's!
Anyone who frequently crabbed Cockburn could see this coming 5 years ago.
Don't get me started on the crabs!

IF IT SMELLS LIKE FISH IT MUST BE GOOD FOR YOU!

Just saw the ad for the segment on Today Tonight.
Looks like its going to be beat up into another one of their usual storys rather than worrying about facts.

Rockingham Offshore Fishing Club
www.rockinghamoffshore.com

Doh, missed it tonight, too busy dodging the roo's on the way back from fishing.

Without playing that blame game too much. I watched a commercial fisherman unload his catch in the Exmouth marina the other day, there were 18 boxes of fish unloaded with approximately 25-30 fish in each. From what I see come from the ramps, that would take a fair few rec fishermen a couple of weeks to come back in with that much. That was only one boat too. Whilst we recs may put pressure on the inner reefs due to our relatively limited capacity to travel far, these boats are damaging the outer systems beyond compare IMO. It was a sad and scary thing to see and contemplate.

Maybe there should be cuts to the amount seafood that is caught for export as the biggest percentage of catch is exported .We are taking more cuts for commercial catch that is exported out of our country that doesn’t sit well with me .I understand there needs to be a commercial fishery because not everyone can catch fish the only problem is that the price of our local produce is so high because of the high export prices payed, so the consumer gets panelised there as well. In the scope of things it’s greed for dollars from the commercial fisherman and the government. Amatures go fishing to catch fish for there family pros fish for the highest price they can get for there catch wether it stays in Australia or it’s exported they don’t care. So we pay the price for that . We as amatures are nothing more than a spec of sand on a long beach .

Nothing beats a day on the water catching a fish is just a bonus

Adam is that the first time you have seen a commercial wet liner catch, if it is mate its the norm. considering you saw this from exy, these guys have got huge restrictions out of this area, they can only fish in certain spots and have certain amount of days they can fish(most probably north of exy they were fishing, wasn't it you who said 11 tonnes of frames was taken from exy for 2 weeks during the school holidays from recs, 105 rec boats on one day out of exy ramp, Not taking sides here, the question is is it sustainable?

Goatrutar, I reckon that, so I am a Muppet.there is no doubt the commercial sector has had a impact on the fishery, but the last ten or 15 years we are matching them, without doubt, some rec boats have better gear then the commercials, everyone thinks that the cray boys catch what they want, rape and pillage everything in their path, funny that, the talk is that a very small % is actually going to access in the wetline review, the talk is out of 1400 boats who can access, 200 of these have got it including the true wetliners on the west coast, now this is even when the fishery department changed the goal posts and gave them another history year 2001/ 02 instead of the one year 96/97, so go figure, if they were ripping out that much why didn't more boats get access, Oh Ok they didn't declare it, cash sales over the bar, yep it goes on, as in the recs.but you have to ask the question, why haven't they got the 1000kg access right

Gps and Color sounders have had great impact mate,I know guys that don't even use the sounder ( probably because they don't know how as you have stated), they have pinged spots from pots that they caught one decent fish off and go back time after time, ripping everything off that one spot, then they move on to the next.

10% of fisherman catch fish, hogwash, it would be more like 30% now. Websites, fishing reports, word of mouth sounders /gps has changed this, gone are the days when secretes were secretes, you wouldn't tell ya best mate where ya caught fish, this is all ready available on the web, information is given away to quickly, better techniques better fishing gear, braid lines circle hooks, latest gadgets, all makes fishing easier, but not for the fish

This post isn't about the coms/ recs, we are extractors, ask not who is responsible, but is it sustainable, if not, fix the problem so we can all enjoy fishing, even the people that just wish to view. what happens if your kids say, Dad I don't like to kill fish. I want to see a Jewie in its natural habitat, hasn't you child/grandchild got just as much right as me and you.god dam right he has

Wally

yeh, thought it was a bit biased imo. i reckon what needs to be put in perspective is the amount of $ the commercial vs rec fisherie actuall put into the community... i dont know for sure, but i imagine that rec fisho's..who buy their boat from a shop/person, buy their fishing tackle, from more shops... bait again from shops ( and supporting the commercial sector )... boating equipment/electrics.... petrol involed...the list goes on....probably put alot more money into the economy, than a commercial fisho ever would....

i also find it hard to believe that 30% of fisho's catch fish regularily... the amount of times i have come back to the ramps, and had the research guys comment that i, in my dingy, have done better than most $50,000 boats is proof in itself... just because fishing is australias most popular sport, doesnt mean that everybody can actually catch fish...

what it does mean, is that most households do have some sort of fishing gear... and i would bet my left nut, only around 80 % of those households use their gear more than twice a year!!! heaps of familys only use their fishing gear on family holidays to entertain the kids. but again , what it does mean, is that it being the most popular sport, is that lots and lots of money is spent from the recreational sector... and again, i would imagine far more than the commercial sector would. arguing the point saying look at the web site's reports etc is just silly... mate only hard core fisho's follow these things religously... not the average joe blog

technology both in tackle and equipment would have had a impact, but again, only with the more serious fish... dont try and tell me, that anyone other than a hard core fisho, would spend the money we do?? again, not the majority of australian's who occasionaly enjoy the sport

i do agree that the sustainability of the fisherie is in trouble...and that changes need to be made now!! but why, short change the recs, who, whilst certainly do contribute to the demise, are not totally to blame.... look at the facts... rec fisho's, support a huge amount of industries around australia... spending a mind blowing amount of money... whilst commercial guys are just in it for their own benifit!! ( and of course i realise they have a right to work like anybody else, but when you get hicks like the goose on today tonight saying there isnt a problem, well you can only assume they dont give a toss!!!))

answers??? well buggered if i know... but i think, starting points such as reduced bag limits.... closure times ( during well known spawning periods), agree with bill, reduce the amount of fish going out of australia... and reduce the number of commercial boats ( less boats..less fishing!!)... and reducing the overall take of fish is a start. hell, maybe even increase the price of all fish sales, so that a % of the funds go directly to fisheries research, and policeing!!! increase the fines of rule breakers... and actually enforce them!! no ifs or buts... maximum fines!!

the one thing i will say, is this... the future generation has catch and release programmed into them... thanks to people like, dare i say it...rex hunt..the fwa crew... and most other fishing shows etc. my boys do get a kick, out of catching a fish, and watching it swim away... but they also enjoy a feed of fresh fish!!! so in my opinion, its not all doom and gloom.. there is hope... but we need to tread carefully for where we go from here could mean big big losses to the economy if rec fishing is shut down to the point, where people dont bother anymore. and that would be terrible!!!

luke
fish for fun, the future, and the belly!!!

roflmao rutar...love the last line in your previous post!!!

its time to get wal started...heheheh

luke

Im not trying to take sides but love the muppet bit Rutar you shit stirrer lol CHEERS SHAG

Goatrutar your comments can be yours, i told Adam i wouldn't get into slanging match on his website anymore so call me what ya want you too Luke, go for it

How many competent recs you reckon that chase jewies on the West coast Goatrutar, thats from Augusta too kalbarri

i reckon 10,000, 3000 would catch 10 a year =30,000, 7000 say 2 a year = 14,000 add both up = 44,000 jewies caught per year on the west coast. 44,000 jewies at an average of 5kg per jewie = 220,000 kg of jewies, thats 220 tonne goatrutar, funny its what the commercials have averaged of the past few years. really when you think about it those numbers aren't that high. i know at least 50 recs that would spike over 30 a year each

wally

In regards to your comments Wally. Of those 108 boats, of which I would have talked to 50% roughly, adding up those figures of what was caught from that day, would still not tally up to the amount of fish caught from that one liner. The fish that the recs catch aren't all prime demersel species either. I have seen plenty of wetliners start unloading, I just don't bother to sit there and count them individually like I did the other day. For example, without giving too much sensitive information out, considering I interviewed 30 boats today, I didn't see one fish that was red and there were quite a few guys that were fishing that country and they weren't muppets either. I think Goatrutar's statement of 10% of people catch 90% of the fish is apt, but I think it refers to the commercial sector. They may only represent 10% of the amount of people out there, probably even less, but I certainly think they are the largest impact on our fishery.

I think recreationals as a collective certainly place significant pressure which needs to be monitored and adapted as I have said in my previous comments, but in my personal opinion, I don't see us as being anywhere near as damaging as the effectiveness and abilities of wetliners.

Your right about figures, as I said compulsory log books, at least for cat 1, then we should have a better idea, but sometimes you need to have a punt

Think you may get scared if the figures were produced thou.

what was it if anyone that thinks that the recs match the commercials they are Muppet's,Well I say that the recs match the commercials for demersal species on the west coast. north bit different, south a bit different, but here, for sure

I don't know about the black market thing, I thought the wet line review was resource sharing between the commercial sector.

Wally

not calling you anything , than what you have called yourself wally ;), and i am not going for a slanging match either mate...just voicing a opinion, and having a bit of a laugh mate...t'is all...

your heart is in the right place... just preaching to the converted....

luke

ps, going off your figures wal..10,000 rec boats vs how many commercial boats?? and we are doing the damage??? , the issue is they know how many they take, and dont give a toss, and pretend that there isnt a problem ( like the nob on today tonight), because they line their pockets...we fish to catch a feed, and have some fun. thank god there isnt 10000 commercial boats hey....

pps, how much do those few commercial boats spend in the economy, vs how much the 10000 rec boats.....i know which i would chop if push came to shove!!!

.fish for fun, the future, and the belly!!!

OK I am a fence sitter and see valid points on both sides, but I would like to do some alternative maths first. Warning, this is a long boring and convoluted post, so read on at your own risk.

How many boat ramps do we have in Perth metro? How many boat bays do they have in their car parks? If we assume that trailer boat anglers are more hard core than 99% of the penned Gin Palace owners then we can look at capacity in a slightly different way.

Lets say at peak times there are:
50 boats at Two Rocks
50 boats at Mindarie
100 boats at Ocean Reef (though I have never seen that apart from a major comp day)
150 boats at Hillaries
100 boats at Woodies
100 boats at Point Peron
200 boats at some other ocean going ramps (though I doubt it)

Thats 750 boats going out to fish on a Saturday and Sunday. Midweek there would be less than 10% of that number on the water. Don't believe me , check out the boat ramps at 10-am when most boats will have already launched and not come back in yet. So that's say 1500 boats on a weekend and 375 on weekdays so 1875 boats per week. Assume 2.25 people per boat, that's 4218 anglers fishing prime weeks (not 10000) Annualising that gets a staggering possible 219336 angler days.

If we say that winter will knock out 25% of that number because it is too cold (would be good to look at Club Marine's stats on how many boats get put on dry dock insurance cover during winter) inclement weather will knock out 50% of the fleet 25% of the time and 100% of the fleet 10% of the time (I reckon its double that, but I will be generous)that's 219336 / 4 (winter is one season)= 54834 x 25% = 13708 days knocked off.

219336 - 13708 = 205628 angler days
205628 x 10% = 20562 lost for weather = 185066
185066 x 25% = 46266 x 50% = 23133 lost days to weather = 161933 days
Now say 20% of the boats are tinnys and small craft that don't get beyond the three mile, they are going to be targetting herring, gardies and whiting. so we now have 129546 angler days chasing dhuies

Now we apply the statistically acceptable 80/20 rule that 20% of anglers catch 80% of the fish, then at 220tonnes 80% would be 176000kgs from 25909 days (20% of 129546) which is 6.79kgs per day for each of those top 20% anglers and 44000kgs (20% of total tonnage)between the other 80% of anglers which gives them 0.43kgs per day. That equates to one per trip on average for the good guys and 1 every sixth or seventh trip for the others. I would think that would be pretty close to the 220tonnes, which makes Wally's numbers look reasonable.

Don't get excited Wal, it doesn't mean I agree totally with the numbers.

What happened to the % of boats that are jet ski's, the % that are cruisers just going to Rotto for the day, the % that are just testing their boats, the % that forgot the bait (hehehe), the sambo jiggers and the list goes on, and the numbers keep reducing.

I would point to the fact that I am nearly always one of the first 5 boats to leave when I launch and one of the last 20 to return. How many of that purported fleet of fish chasers only spend a few hours out there and head home. Too many variables to make any sense out of the maths, so if you have read this far congratulations on sticking it out, but I haven't proven anything I'm afraid. The number crunching will always be contentious and until someone does an extensive survey throughout an entire year no-one will ever know the "facts". I am a supporter of the compulsory log book if it comes out, would be interesting for sure. Personally this past 12 months I would have kept roughly 18 dhuies and my deckies an extra 10 (average size 8kgs) and that would be by fishing between 20 and 30 trips a year. Out of the three boats in the street I would fish twice as often locally as the others if not more and catch 4 times as many dhuies as the others if not more, and they are both very good anglers.

Redo the numbers based on how many boats are in the carpark on this coming Saturday and Sunday or last Saturday and Sunday and see if my maths is near the mark or not. I think you will find there will be a big difference.

My personal gut feel is that the dhufish is in bad need of protection and anything they are contemplating doing to reduce pressure is fine by me. As for the catch rate of recs I think it is somewhere between 60% and 110% of the commercial catch in metro waters. Unfortunately that is such a big variance that it means I have no idea!

Interesting discussion and another reason for us to do the dhuie poll as suggested earlier.

can i get a copy of that when the dvd comes out Andy i will go with your figures there Andy lol CHEERS SHAG

As part of my personal efforts to reduce my own boat's dhuie catch, you will notice I have started taking on deckies that can't even catch a whiting without help. (Hehehe)

Yeah andy started reading your post, but realized how long it is, so if you ever go audio let me know

Im shattered mate boo hoo hoo I suppose i will just have to look whos leading the comp out of us heehee he CHEERS SHAG
p.s i didnt mean it oh great skipper
please dont leave me on shore lol

-Dhuies are in desaparate need of some protection.

-Rec catch could well be up there but too many variables to make it statistically viable to even guess.

- I am a fence sitter re blame, but a definate advocate for taking action on both sides.

- Shag can't catch whiting without help.

No problems Andy I wont get excited. but I was talking the whole west coast not just metro?

As for the figures its any bodies guess really, but as you have shown Andy the numbers can stack up for the recs,

In the creel of 96/97 we nailed 135 tonne and the glorified taxi service nailed 20 odd tonnes. in 2000 ( i think) there was a national phone survey and they put the figure at 250 tonne and 500 tonne of jewies caught from the rec sector on the west coast.

I ain't backing no horse goat. and i will try and explain it for you.

I believe that we match the commercials on the west coast for demersals.Do I think the demersals on the west coast are in trouble from fishing pressure and 40 years of mismanagement, yes i do. Blaming recs, blaming pro's isn't going to solve the problem. clear enough

Wally

ps Luke, what about the people that love fish but don't like fishing, haven't they got a right to eat Jewies as well.

Thanks for simplifying it Andy.

I do agree dhuies need protection and so do the other species mentioned at the top of the page, I wouldn't mine seeing all the baglimits halved again or even more, Something has to be done soon.

As for shag, well we all struggle in life

Great thoughts i know living up in quinns and drinking down mindarie the amount of crayfishermen you talk to that say how many fish there yanking out on the side is frikin alarming and i know im not the only one to have heard or seen this sort of thing CHEERS SHAG
P.s leave me alone about my friken whiting i was saving there numbers lol

What I want is for the recs not to take it in the back and the pro's walk away laughing!
I'm not saying that the fishery doesn't need protection but the recs are bound to wear the brunt!Which I believe is wrong!
Wally, we are both fighting the same war but it is not coming across that way!
Dean,if Andy the dhuie killer is on the dhuies side god help them!LOL!!!As for simplifying it well with all that maths even I was willing to concede defeat!Just joking mate!We all should be able to express our opinion and hopefully make a difference!
Wally you need to come for a fish with me and I will show you how all the mod-cons really don't help a crab like me!
I will show you dhufish on my sounder that are really buff bream and show you how to get frustrated drinking bourbon and trying to put you within 50m of a lump 30m wide!
I'm not the best exponent of technoledgy!
By the way my neighbour thinks buffies and sweep taste great!
Mind you he is probably the same person wizzing in my letterbox!
You havn't found out where I live yet have you Wally???LOL!!

IF IT SMELLS LIKE FISH IT MUST BE GOOD FOR YOU!e

The vail attempt to conjour up a number that matches the quoted number of 220 tonnes took a lot of assumptions, heaps of guesswork and a few errors on the calculator, which is no different than the current guestimate for catch from the rec sector. One would expect that given the fact that the commercial catch is regulated and recorded with invoices etc that the catch data there "should" be pretty accurate. We however have no idea how much comes out of the water from rec pressure. It may well surprise us all, which is why I said facetiously 60 - 110%.

We had this discussion before where people see pics posted and think geez this guy catches dhuies every time he goes out or he catches 10 KG's every time he goes out, its a long way from the truth, but that is all they have to go on (anecdotal evidence) unfortunately what do we have to go on with regards to estimating rec catches, wildly inaccurate creel surveys, our own personal catch data and website forum discussions, hardly the basis for a statistically viable assessment. That's why compulsory log books seem to be a good idea, however flawed they may be.

I think wally's point is that it isn't as important to argue Comm versus Rec, rather it is more important to recognise the overall damage to the stocks and the need for action across the board. I think he is tryng to voice a wake-up call to rec fishermen that think we are not part of the problem, when clearly we are. Its just the percentages that are questionable.

Don't get me wrong I think there should have been more cuts on the commercial side, but am I happy that we are to have cat 1 bag limits cut?

Answer: catagorically YES!

Because even if I bag out 10 times more often than I ever did before it would still be a great day on the water, no matter what I brought home for the table. Remember that in my lifetime I think I have only ever bagged out on Dhuies three times. Once with Ox & Shamu, once last year with my Dad when we got two each, and once the year before. Never on Pinkies and never on any other Category 1 fish.

Too long winded a post and everyone gets in and beats me to the punch while I am typing.

(Hehehe)

Go prawning instead guys its less political and we need to give it a go before they close that too!

How do you expect to get great research data when you pay people with Phd,s peanuts and cut their budgets! think about where the info comes from have a talk to the researchers they will tell ya how hard up for dollars they are!

p.s Rutar your a funny man! ha ha.