Abnormal poor performance. Too much weight in the Bow?

Hey fellas,

Wanted to pick the brains of some of the more experienced boaties.

I have a 4.75m Quintrex Bayhunter runabout. It has a 4cyl 2stroke 40 on the back. Normally its happy to get on the plane and run at about 20 knots at WOT around 5500 rpm.

On the w'end it was quite loaded with weight. Not thinking i had loaded all the 'extra' weight into the bow, ie Tackle boxes, eskies, etc... Not to mention we had 3 guys on board where normally its just two.

Heading out from hillarys it was not happy. She didnt want to go over 7-8 knots but was still revving at 5500rpm. It sounded like she was really 'bogged down' and didn't even feel like it was coming close to getting on the plane (felt like i was in a displacement hull). I also had all 3 ppl at the front of the boat, two in the front seats (obviously) and one inbetween, plus 70L of fuel in the under floor fuel tank.

I had a quick play with the power trim to no benefit and put it down to the motor having sat for a while and potentially being gummed up with unburnt 2 stroke oil because it had only been ran in the driveway over the past few weeks/months. But the more i think of it the less this makes sense as the motor was still running at max rpm.

Anyway after our first stop, and the obvious moving of tackle boxes etc she seemed to come good. Happy to get on the plane and able to do 17knots. It was like a different boat. Motor sounded like it was revving alot easier and it felt as normal. It continued like this all day, so i thought it confirmed that it was just clearing itself out.

We even came back into the ramp at 19/20 knots. However, the more i think of it, the more i think it was the weight being distributed more evenly that made all the difference.

I've had 4 people on it before in the mandurah estaury with two sitting at the stern and it was happy to get on the plane and 'rev easy'.

So i'm after opinions. Did i make a rookie mistake by loading up the front/bow of the boat?

Cheers,

Steve

(Sorry for the long winded story)

 


pgreen1's picture

Posts: 395

Date Joined: 20/02/08

 You could be right. The only

Wed, 2014-10-08 21:54

 You could be right. The only other things I could think of would be a worn prop bush or weed around the prop causing cavitation. Interested in other peoples thoughts.

Hutch's picture

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Date Joined: 21/04/13

 Could be something around

Wed, 2014-10-08 21:57

 Could be something around the prop or affecting the motor. A similar thing happened to us and 3hrs later back at the ramp we realised the earmuffs were still on 

fishy fingers's picture

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been there

Thu, 2014-10-09 07:26

 done that!

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Date Joined: 01/02/10

 A 475 with a 40 is

Thu, 2014-10-09 04:45

 A 475 with a 40 is definately going to require your load to be well distributed to perform. 

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Date Joined: 03/06/09

Seems pretty clear she was bogged down

Thu, 2014-10-09 04:46

Give it a try next time with the same weight. Get her on the plane then redistribute the weight up to the front. I bet she still planes well. That will show that she was just pushing the water in front of her an unable to get on the plane - on your first trip out last weekend.

hezzy's picture

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agree with the all comments

Thu, 2014-10-09 06:36

agree with the all comments above,
that size boat with a 40 is always going to be a bit underpowered imho especially if you are taking that load out
so first up , if you cant repower it with something bigger over time , then really check all the stuff that you & your mates are putting on board is really needed ?? often we just chuck shite in without really looking at what it weighs ? tackle boxes especialy may not all be needed , just a few selected items will often do what you need , or share

amazing how many blokes have tackle boxes full to the brim of stuff they take and only about 10% gets used on any one trip ,

its all extra kilos in the hull

second , distribute the weight of what you do put in evenly ,

hezzy

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sea-kem's picture

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 Yep, I've stremlined the

Thu, 2014-10-09 06:57

 Yep, I've stremlined the amount of gear I take out now, a very light tackle bag with the basics and one small box with pliers, brag mat leader etc and a very small weight box. I have under floor kill tanks which frees up the deck space too. You could do the Lambada on my deck while fishing lol.

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Saulty2's picture

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IMO under powered & overloaded

Thu, 2014-10-09 07:33

had 2 stroke 150 now 4 stroke 200  most ill ever do is 4,200 revs .

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Date Joined: 01/02/10

 That's way overpropped then.

Thu, 2014-10-09 08:35

 That's way overpropped then. You should def be looking at going down a few sizes. Not being able to pull full revs is just as bad for your motor than over revving it. Bet you would get better fuel economy out of it too.

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Saulty2's picture

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hey dodgy

Thu, 2014-10-09 09:35

just to say the 150- 2 stroke bought as a new complete new unit boat -motor & trailer from Hayway , now again as a complete new unit boat- 200 yamaha motor & trailer from Chivers so id be hesitant to suggest to them that they got it wrong , any case at 4000 reves i get 25knots and thats as fast as id want to go , but most times the sea conditions doesnt allow to go faster .

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 I would check that with

Thu, 2014-10-09 12:18

 I would check that with them. Should be getting closer to 5500 revs. You might not want to go faster but you motor will not be operating how it wants to. 

You should be able to pull max revs with a normal load.

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sstevee's picture

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Dodgy I think he means he is

Thu, 2014-10-09 12:21

Dodgy I think he means he is only doing those rpm by choice... I.e not WOT... 

 

sea-kem's picture

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 Hey Stevee, I'm actually

Thu, 2014-10-09 08:08

 Hey Stevee, I'm actually doing a bayhunter up at the moment and have brought a 60hp 4 stroke Suzuki for it. I did a fair bit of homework on this before my decision so I think yeah you may be a little under poewered. If you are planning on keeping the boat for a while might be an idea to upsize?

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sstevee's picture

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Date Joined: 15/11/11

Yea I'm constantly

Thu, 2014-10-09 08:25

Yea I'm constantly contemplating this... It's a 97 hull and motor (pre-millennium) and I've actually been quite happy with the performance of the hull for what is basically just an ally tinny. I'd love to put the max 60hp 4 stroke on the back but can't help wonder if it will over capitalise the thing considering I paid 9k for the whole rig. I also wouldn't mind stepping up to something around 5.5m, however I don't know how long it'd be before I could make that happen. 

Guess I just gotta win the powerball tonight. 

sstevee's picture

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Yea definitely hearing the

Thu, 2014-10-09 08:16

Yea definitely hearing the comments about loaded tackles boxes which don't get opened!... Would love to put the max hp on the back which is a 60 but as always it's a matter of $. Surprisingly it's actually a lot better than you would think with the 40. 

Thanks for the comments, think I might go out of my way to experiment with it next time I've got 3 or 4 on board. 

 

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 All bandaid reasons and

Thu, 2014-10-09 09:21

 All bandaid reasons and solutions.

 
You need a bigger boat  

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Hey think all here are right

Thu, 2014-10-09 10:22

Hey think all here are right that the boat is slightly underpowered but if the boat normally does 20kts at WOT and only got to 7/8 kts before stopping and redistributing load my guess is that you had weed around the prop.

have had it happen to me going out of the woodies entrance ...you just get a "muffled rev" but no power

happenes all the time even to bigger boats. most just put it in reverse give it a rev and get underway again.

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Date Joined: 27/12/06

Bayhunter

Thu, 2014-10-09 11:01

 I used to have a bayhunter with a 40 2 smoker and I think what you will find is your overloaded for the boat.  Mine was licences for 5 people @ 75kg and that's without any gear in it.

i could hit 24knots with a deckie and fishing gear but put 5 people in it and it struggled in the river

i fitted a hydrofoil to mine and it made a noticinle improvement but at the end of the day your probably pushing it a bit harder than it was designed for 

hezzy's picture

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you might want to think about

Thu, 2014-10-09 12:42

you might want to think about setting some limits on your load depending on where your fishing &conditions

for me id only want to take out one crew if i was fishing off the coast , in the river maybe more

but at sea /wind conditions can change quickly, being at max load gives you bugger all options in the event of any changes

hezzy

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sstevee's picture

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I was definitely conscious

Thu, 2014-10-09 14:34

I was definitely conscious about not heading too far with how it was performing. Hence why we stopped quite close in. But as i said, after the first stop it was like a different boat. Happy to get on the plane and perform. And we still had the same amount of weight on board apart from maybe 10 - 20l of fuel which was burnt throughout the day.

Just to clarify there was 3 people total on board. Myself and two others. I have had four on board in rivers/estuaries with two up the front and 2 on the rear bench seat and didn't have the same experience as on saturday. I think next time i have four on in an estuary ill experiment and see if i can replicate what happened. 

crasny1's picture

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I was reading this as it unfolded

Thu, 2014-10-09 14:51

Originally convinved it was a distribution issues with a slightly underpowered motor pushing into a greater frontal water resistance. Now I think because it got better so suddenly you had a weed issue that cleared when you stopped.

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Bunny's picture

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 Agree with a lot of the

Fri, 2014-10-10 19:44

 Agree with a lot of the above. Also, what prop do you have? At 5500 max rpm it may be just a touch to low rpm wise. It's worth checking out the WOT rpm range as that sounds like it's just slightly on the bottom part of where it should be. It does sound like you need to get the balance right for that set up. 

Paul H's picture

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about spot on if he still has

Fri, 2014-10-10 20:06

about spot on if he still has the same motor as per profile - 1997 40hp 2 stroke merc max 5000-5500rpm

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Bunny's picture

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 Ahh cool all good there

Fri, 2014-10-10 23:13

 Ahh cool all good there then.

sstevee's picture

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Date Joined: 15/11/11

 Yep still the same motor as

Fri, 2014-10-10 21:48

 Yep still the same motor as per profile...

Will have 4 total on board tomorrow in the river so will experiment and see how I go. 

Cheers for the input so far guys

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Date Joined: 01/01/70

I wouldn't have thought you

Fri, 2014-10-10 22:13

I wouldn't have thought  you would get normal wot rpm if you couldn't get on the plane? not at least without some cavitation. If you had weed or something wrapped around the prop I would Have thought it would lower your rpm, unless your rubber bush in the prop is damaged causing your normal revs? I could be way off the mark here  idk but worth a thought...

 

I have a 4.5m  with a 40hp 4stroke merc tiller steer no infloor tank and is perfect with 2 adults, but adding one more in the front does affect how I have to load the boat.

sstevee's picture

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Date Joined: 15/11/11

Hmmmm well today was

Sat, 2014-10-11 19:23

Hmmmm well today was interesting.... I'm starting to lean down the path of either cavitation or a spinning prop hub...

I Launched at maylands and went through the ski area at WOT for 7-8 knots!! So throughout the day I was playing with slight trim adjustments and rpm increases and noticed that it loads up toward 4300 - 4500 rpm, a couple of times I left it at that rpm (trim needed to be exact) and id get a vibration through the hull but eventually we'd get on the plane and once on the plane throttle adjustments would be immediate. I.e a change in throttle resulted in a change of speed...  However, if I pushed the throttle to WOT when sitting bogged down at those revs the rpm would increase for absolutely no change in speed, or at times a decrease in speed... Andl I could 'feel' as if something was slipping, hard to explain but I knew the increased rpm had caused an issue...

was like this all day, only getting on the plane with the very slightest in rpm increases, if I pushed even the slightest bit harder it would just stay bogged down.

The ultimate goal is to keep an eye out for modernish second hand 60 four stroke but until then I've marked the hub and prop to check for slipping. 

It may sound like I'm clutching at straws but I know it has performed a lot better in the past. 

Cheers

Steve

 

sstevee's picture

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Date Joined: 15/11/11

 So i thought i'd update

Sun, 2014-11-02 13:49

 So i thought i'd update this.

I decided to check the ignition coil and spark plug lead resistance today and found that one of the four cylinders has a spark plug lead which is open circuit. Threw on a spark tester and it is still getting spark to the plug but can only guess that it's breaking down or failing under load.

Luckily it looks as though the corresponding coil is still good so i'm hoping that replacing the lead will resolve the issue.

I'll update once i've manage to replace the lead and take the boat out.... whenever that may be....

Cheers

Steve 

sstevee's picture

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Date Joined: 15/11/11

Issue sorted!...Was the dodgy

Thu, 2015-01-01 21:48

Issue sorted!...

Was the dodgy spark plug lead...

Cheers 

Steve