Aboos 4WD advice

Due to a number of requests, I have put up this post for anyone interested in buying a 4WD, like I am at the mement.
Many thanks for the input Aboo

Please realise I am not an expert by any means; so the following is mere advice based on all the research I did (and do) when I was purchasing a 4wd.

A few things.

1) For towing you need to look at the future. You may not need to tow anything now but are you planning a boat/caravan in the future? This may not be a concern now but if you go with a Forester/Rav4/Xtrail/any other small car on stilts (because that is all those are- they are based on the respective manufacturer's small car platform with some "all-terrain" traction control (4wd) thrown in) and you want to buy a boat, will you be happy to sell your reliable vehicle you have had for a few years, losing considerable money in order to upgrade to a vehicle that can tow?

2) I would be careful about buying second hand anything you can't get to yourself (ie Eastern States). You may save some dollars up-front buying sight-unseen, but internet photographs often hide many, many faults. I used to buy in Japanese grey imports for a business and you quickly learn this. Combined with the fact (as another member pointed out) that a 4wd vehicle can often have a very hard life in a very short time you get a very large potential of disaster. Much better to purchase a thoroughly inspected vehicle (yourself or a mechanic who knows the vehicle type in question) or purchase a vehicle with a service history. It may be more expensive but parts for the larger 4wds can be expensive. It only requires a couple of issues for the $$$ to mount.

3) A great deal of the capabilities and traits of a 4wd vehicle is due to the engine and the suspension. I will deal with the suspension briefly. You have two common suspension types: solid axle and independant. Solid axle is what you see if you look under a 4wd and see the diff "pumpkin" (the roundish bit in the centre with the solid extensions either side to the wheels). Both wheels are connected physically together. Independant suspension is when each wheel has it's own suspension assembly, operating independantly of each other.

Why is this important?

Generally speaking, solid axle vehicles are better off-road due to greater articulation but independant suspended vehicles perform better on-road. There are exceptions (the Prado is one of the better front independant suspension, for example) but in standard mass-manufactured vehicles this holds true, generally. This is the reason why you see so many Patrols and Landcruisers (solid axles) at extreme 4wd competitions, and not so many Prados or Pajeros.

4) As for diesel vs petrol, I am not a mechanic. However, diesels seem to have a limited rev band but usually have a lot of torque (great for towing) but not a lot of power. The petrols rev much better and feel better on-road but use more fuel. Although with diesel so overpriced there is not much in it in pure dollar terms, according to a test run by Australian 4wd Action magazine.

With that out of the way, here are some thoughts on particular types and then specific models.

1) Dual-cab utes.

Very good all-round vehicles. They are generally more nimble/fuel economical than a full-size wagon with almost the same livability. I say almost, because anyone who has sat in the rear of a dual-cab for any length of time can tell you how uncomfortable they can be on long trips. Apparently the latest Triton is an exception to this, having a very car-like rear seat area.

They generally have decent towing capacities (generally) and having the tray (which you can canopy) is in some ways more practical than a wagon cargo bay (ie wet clothes, stinky bait, etc). The suspension set up, again generally, is independant front) and load capacity (leaves). The trade-off is that the rear leaves are either heavy duty for load ability but skittish and prone to oversteer on gravel, or more compliant light-duty leaves which can not handle heavy loads. There are also concerns that safety features do not equal equavalent wagons.

2) Small cars on stilts (Rav4, Forester, XTrail, etc).

These are very good for the vehicle that does not get offroad too often but is used mainly around town with the occasional trip to the dirt or sand. They are often decently economical, reliable, relatively safe, easy to drive; they share these attributes with the small cars they are based on (ie the Honda CRV is based on the Civic). Really for what most people need a family vehicle for they work well. But please do not expect them to last too long on rough roads and do not expect them to tow. I used to sell caravans so if you need more explanation on the towing, let me know. If you wouldn't tow it with a Civic/Corolla/Impreza, don't tow it with a CRV/Rav4/Forester.

3) Medium Touring Wagons (Pajero, Pathfinder, Prado, Discovery, etc)

These are good all-round vehicles. They usually have independant front with solid axle (coil) rear or are all-independant. They normally have large six cylinder petrol or mid-sized turbo diesels. They are usually the best all-round compromise between on-road comfort and moderate offroad ability, with some obviously being better than others. They generally have good safety features, decent towing ability and a good amount of mod-cons. A great deal of families opt for these vehicles and you will probably find that they are the best-selling 4wds which have not had their sales numbers inflated by fleet sales (like I would imagine many dual-cabs have).

4) Heavy wagons (Patrol, Landcruiser, Defender)

These are the generally accepted pinnacle for locally available offroad performance. The landcruiser is now all-independant, I believe, while the Patrol is solid axle all round. The defender is a land-rover so be mindful of their reputation for mechanical gremlins, but in my research even the wagon is rated for a 1 tonne payload! A very good comparison between the GU Patrol and 200 series Landcruiser was made in a DVD of a recent 4wd Action magazine. The comparison was made by two reviewers who gave their own views but left it up to the magazine buyers to vote online as to which should be 4wd of the year. The Patrol won, with most comments I saw being cost, simplicity, offroad ability being the main factors.

There will always be exceptions, which is why I made most comments "in general..." or "Generally speaking...".

I was speaking about general diesel characteristics, not specific abilities. Diesels generally have a limited rev-band that they are happy in. Modern electronically-controlled and turbocharged diesels may mask the common diesel trait but they seem to still be inherent to even the latest diesels.

One thing to take note of is the difference between power and torque. Torque is the tractive ability of the engine; the ability of the engine to apply power.

Torque is the thing that "pushes you in the back" when you take off. It is also the force which enables you instantly tap power, for instance the first moments of a take-over manuever, or when accelerating from a constant speed. A turbocharger amplifies this effect, boosting the torque curve. In fact, the turbocharger is often used on smaller engines which would otherwise have quite little torque. So the fact that your Navara performs so well in those examples you offered is actually a pointer towards what I mentioned of the turbo diesels having excellent torque. This torque also makes the vehicle a more able towing vehicle, enabling the vehicle to pull a greater load at a lower rev range, which makes a vehicle with lesser power but greater torque lower in the rev range (ie turbo diesel) a better towing vehicle than a vehicle with higher power but lesser torque which is often higher in the rev range.

Power is another thing altogether. Sometimes people confuse the two; the power of an engine is not what pushes you in the back, that is the torque.

From this perspective, if you compare a vehicle available with both petrol and diesel, you will see that the petrol generally has more power (at a higher rev range). This does not mean the diesel does not have enough power just that the petrol has more.

An easy way to illustrate this is to drive the same model with either engine, accelerate all the way to the respective engine's redline. You will most probably find that the turbo-diesel has a big "rush" of back-pushing torque in the mid-rev ranges but runs out of puff in the upper zone. The petrol will not have the same push in the middle revs- less torque- but will rev cleaner and still have shove near the redline. Ie, more power in the upper revs.

I hope this made more sense? And of course, all of this is general. Some diesels are better, some petrols are worse.

agree completely with the gearing, which would be much more important on the diesels due to their more narrow "happy" place in the rev range. Those figures you quote really show the benefit of the diesel with the torque in the right spot. They are great engines for lugging loads. That is one of the main reasons they are used for industrial engines.

I used to drive a school bus and now drive a diesel GQ Patrol after spending my earlier driving years in high-performance Japanese grey imports. I now have a much different driving style and am much more appreciative of a good solid torque curve rather than a highly-strung rev-machine. The latter is fun on the race track but the former is so much more practical for legal speeds, towing, etc.

For particular vehicles in the major categories, a by no means exhaustive list; just a few that come to mind:

1) Dual-cab utes.

Navara- Firstly keep in mind that there are two types. The D22 and D40. The D22 is based on an older, smaller platform (solid rear axle, independant front) whereas the D40 is larger (also solid rear, independant front). The D40 I believe is based on an American Nissan "truck". The D40 and D22 now have the same turbo-diesel engine, but the engine is derated in the D22 (less power and torque). The petrol engine in the D40 is very powerful- power-drift on gravel ahoy!. The D40 recently won a comparison of dual-cab utes in Australian 4WD Action.

Rodeo/Colorado- Holden's entry. The Colorado is the latest incarnation of the Rodeo ie the Rodeo has been re-branded. In my research they are generally well-regarded, never the best but never the worst. No-one talks about them much whenever someone asks for opinions on 4wds. I don't know why, my research suggests they are a good vehicle.

Triton- The new Triton is meant to be very comfortable inside, with the rear seat much more comfortable then most dual-cabs. The trade off is a less-useable rear tray, apparently.

Hilux- Seems to be good reviews. Strong engines, good build quality $$$$$$$$. Did I mention $$$$$$? That seems to be the main complaint, as with the 200 series landcruiser. They also have a TRD supercharged version, just in case you could not get a standard dual cab sideways on the gravel.

Bravo/Ranger: Same vehicle, different badges. My research says they are a pretty good vehicle. In fact in one comparison they were looking to win except they swallowed some water from a low air intake and both the Bravo and Ranger engine computers shut down the engines. !!!

Defender- Good points: It is a Land Rover. Bad points: It is a Land Rover. If you need more information, best research. If I mention too many bad points about, lets say, mechanical reliability, interior ergonomics, etc, the Land Rover fans will probably track down my IP address and do nasty things to my Patrol. But you won't find any vehicle that can do what it can, stock. The armies use them for a reason.

2) Small cars on stilts.

Out of all of them, the Suzukis are probably the closest to an actual off-road vehicle. And when I say off-road, I don't mean occasional beach run or gravel track with potholes. However, if that is all you use it for, these are great. My research says that the Rav4, Forester and XTrail are among the better ones. The Suzukis have a decent dual-range transfer worth noting but are apparently smaller inside than a RAV. My father has a RAV and he really likes it for around town and the beach.

I would suggest further research in magazines like Wheels, etc.

3) Medium Touring Wagons.

Pajero- often under-rated, these seem to be very good for the price. They are always near the top in comparisons I have seen. All independant suspensions, good turbo diesel and good petrol engines. I have seen one person have a serious problem on heavy offroad tracks: the bonnet catch broke on heavy corrugations at high speed and smashed the windscreen and roof. So please do not expect your standard Pajero to handle roads that the Paris-Dakar specially prepped race Pajeros that you see on the ads can.

Prado- these often win the comparisons. Excellent turbo-diesel with a HUUUUUGE fuel tank (180 litres!!!!! Way bigger than anything else, let alone the class), one of the better independant suspensions for off-road, reliable, Toyota build quality. All of this adds up to the negative, though: $$$$$. Seems to be a common thread with the Toyotas. This does not stop at new, either; if you can even find a good late model secong hand example you will not be paying too much less than new! They hold their value. But really, from what I have researched, they are one of the better allround 4wd vehicles. This would be my recommendation for you, Colin.

Jeep Wrangler 4 door- these are a little small compared to the others but they have some of the best factory offroad options, including rock slider (from the factory!), diff locks front and rear, light guards, etc, etc. I have not seen these in too many comparisons but the research says they are excellent offroad but you do lose in the ergonomics, interior space and onroad refinement.

Discovery- I don't want to say too much because I have not researched too much, however I have heard of very high fuel consumption and your normal British... err.... "character". Sorry I could not add more but I do not want to speak about something I am not confident to have researched enough.

Hyundai Terracan: Essentially a last-generation Mitsubishi Pajero chassis (independant front, solid rear axle) in a Hyundai wrapper. That means cheap, with heaps of standard features for the money! Hyundai have been making large strides in terms of build quality and according to the Dog and Lemon Guide (a highly recommended book, available from newsagents) they are getting near to the Japanese in build quality now. Whether the Terracan is one of the the new Hyundais or the older design I am not too sure. I have driven the turbo diesel around as a hire vehicle and I was quite impressed with the driveline. Whether the interior quality holds up would be an interesting thing to see. I have also seen modified examples on the some 4x4 forums and they appear quite a capable tourer (as was the Pajero it is based on).

4) Large Wagons:

Patrol- All solid axles, simple and strong mechanical setups (diffs are generally accepted as best in the local market, for instance), strong petrol motor, diesel is not as powerful as the Toyota and also had problems in the early years. Problems, as in engines grenading pistons, etc. These problems are now solved, apparently. They are cheaper than the Landcruiser. These vehicles are only available in Australia and the Middle East and are engineered to suit, hence the strong, truck-like drivelines and simple mechanics. They are behind the Landcruiser technologically but some people in my research prefer more simple machines in heavy offroad use as it means less to go wrong. They are much cheaper than the Toyota.

Landcruiser- My research suggests more comfortable interior, better quality fittings, more technology, much more powerful turbo diesel V8, all independant suspension. An arguably better tourer than the Patrol but it appears to be slightly behind in offroad ability (according to my research). Much more expensive than the Patrol, but a big step up in ergonomics and mod-cons. I have seen complaints of oil usage in the new turbo diesel V8s and teething problems. However, my uncle Mark who works for Toyota (and may therefore be quite biased) has told me they have only had I believe 2 V8s returned in all of WA. I would not say this is definitely true.

Defender- It is a Land Rover. They have recently upgraded the wagon's ergonomics. It has a 1 tonne load capacity! No other wagon I know has that ability. They are one of the best offroad vehicles. They are also British-built. Take that how you wish.

F-Series Trucks- I don't know too much other than they are really trucks. Huge powerful diesel engines, massive tow capacity and imagine trying to drive one in the city. Or more to the point, imagine your better half trying to drive it in the city. Or should that be: imagine trying to CONVINCE your better half to drive that in the city.

After all that, I would suggest a Toyota Prado, if you have the money. Versatile, comfortable, reliable, able to tow a decent load if you need to, family friendly, huge touring range (which means less stops when heading north), excellent ergonomics and comfort, not too large and very good offroad ability. The really seem to be an excellent family 4WD. The problem is, too many people agree as do Toyota, so they are expensive.

Other contenders: all of the better dual cabs, Pajero, Pathfinder, Patrol, Landcruiser and perhaps one or two others I have overlooked.

I may need to come back and edit this later but I hope it was of some help.

Further references: Australian 4WD Action (I reference this so much because it appears the magazine is less manufacturer-cushiness and more real-world reviews), Overlander 4WD forums, Outer Limits 4x4 forums, Australian 4wd Action forums.

Yes, I like the Pajeros. The older generations are great value on the used car market and make excellent tourers. The new ones are all independant suspension and moncoque body, much like a regular car (I think the new Pathfinder is the same). This will make them more comfortable and quieter onroad. The only concern is how a non separate-chassis will handle nasty road beatings in the long term.

Thanks for the information on the cargo space, that is good to know. Is your Pajero a 7 seater?

And the troopcarrier was my first 4WD I remember wanting when I was younger. I had drawn interior camping fitouts and everything. They really are the successors of the FJ40 series, which were also designed with the markets of Australia, the Mid-East, et al in mind, so they were simple, tough and long-lived. And now they have a TD V8!

Many thanks to Aboo for all his reasearch and passing it on.

____________________________________________________________________________

Moderator. Proud member of the Fishwrecked "Old Farts". Make sure your subscribed to Fishwrecked Reeltime http://fishwrecked-reeltime.com/


7739ian's picture

Posts: 948

Date Joined: 25/06/08

Good report Col

Mon, 2008-12-15 08:35

I guess it's a case of personal choice and experience - i have had a lot of 4WD'S but i certainly dont consider myself an expert- my personal experience has been over a long time and may interest those who can't afford a newie.

1978 Arkana Van ( Troopie forbear ) - slow, heavy but bulletproof - still a few around.

1976 Landrover 4 cyl ute - good in sand but but unreliable mechanically from new.

1974 SWB Cruiser - bulletproof but a spine powderer.

1996 Td Triton twincab - excellent in the bush but tinny.

2006 Patrol Td - have one again anytime

2005 Pathfinder - ok 4WD but crappy plastics and seats.

The best for last!!!!!

 1998 Kia Sportage wagon - anyone looking for a second hand entry level off roader could not go wrong. My wife's little wagon was " borrowed" for 3 trips to Pardoo, Broome and Port Smith - all around 5000k round trips towing a loaded trailer and anyone who has been into Port Condon and along the beaches there would know you have to have faith in the vehicle. The little wagon went everywhere the mates Cruiser went and did a better job in some places. Usually 4 people in it plus rods, bait, refreshments etc and it never missed a beat. Biggest mistake ever selling this little bugger simply because of no parking space.

Colin Hay's picture

Posts: 10407

Date Joined: 23/10/07

Thanks Ian I will have a look at one of the Kias

Mon, 2008-12-15 09:18

(Colin 1 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)

____________________________________________________________________________

Moderator. Proud member of the Fishwrecked "Old Farts". Make sure your subscribed to Fishwrecked Reeltime http://fishwrecked-reeltime.com/

7739ian's picture

Posts: 948

Date Joined: 25/06/08

Col

Mon, 2008-12-15 10:41

obviously the little Kia is not what you are looking for - The Sorrento's are bloody good - Google up The Australian Product Review - it has some fairly extensive 4WD reviews from a variety of users. Forget F250's and Hummers as per the other thread unless you are a spraypainter and can afford to do a full paintjob after every Cruiser width track.