Boat safety review - compulsory life jacket wearing
Submitted by Jamie-Chester on Sat, 2017-06-10 11:34
if you don't want to be forced to wear life jackets all the time might want to do this survey. And while your at it might want to question the need to replace perfectly good flares all the time.
(Can't put link up for some reason but it's on DOT website)
woody
Posts: 617
Date Joined: 27/02/08
Try
Try here
http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/safety-equipment-review.asp
Michael Yoni
Posts: 604
Date Joined: 02/01/11
Just curious how do you know
Just curious how do you know they are perfectly good flares if you dont use them. If they have an expiry date its probably for a reason.
Auslobster
Posts: 1901
Date Joined: 03/05/08
I'll go you one better, Michael.
How do you know they're perfectly good flares just because the expiry date says they are?
I understand the need for an expiry date. There has to be a line drawn somewhere. Flares can't be practically test fired, and even if they could, well then you wouldn't have a flare! But you're insinuating that a flare is perfectly operational as long as the date written on it says so. For all we know, it could be a dud straight out of the shop!
unhurry
Posts: 236
Date Joined: 23/10/12
with all due respect
I doubt the efficacy of the flares sudenly terminates on stamped expiry date.
I keep my oldies as a spare set x 1
gruntre69
Posts: 533
Date Joined: 15/10/16
One thing I know about
One thing I know about pyrotechnics is that they draw in moisture from the atmosphere and become less effective. I think the date is a measure to ensure that this important life saving equipment has a very good chance of being effective when needed. We often use expired flares and smoke for parachuting displays & have had them fail to work on many occasions. We always make sure we have a few available in case of failure. (used to by ground crew as wind indicators for jumpers)
I will add that it's usually the very old ones that fail..
Marine trimmer NOR (available for clears, tops, carpet, upholstery, custom equipment covers)
Rob H
Posts: 5817
Date Joined: 18/01/12
What the others said.On
What the others said.
On board another of our companies vessels, the crew did a drill with an in date line thrower, which is like a small bucket with handle on the bottom.
Fires a flare pulling a rope.
Exploded injuring the bloke firing it.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8156
Date Joined: 07/05/12
Point?
Point?
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
Rob H
Posts: 5817
Date Joined: 18/01/12
I guess you cant be bothered
I guess you cant be bothered reading above this at what Ive replied to but the point is that being in date doesnt guarantee the integrity of flares etc
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8156
Date Joined: 07/05/12
Just got a bit confused
Just got a bit confused because I thought the conversation was about flares. Happy to share my experience with expiry dates too.
I bought some chicken from Farmer Jacks that had 2 days left on the expiry date and it was rancid. Lucky for me chicken lets you know.
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
Rob H
Posts: 5817
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Actually about boating
Actually about boating safety equipment...
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8156
Date Joined: 07/05/12
Guess I was drawing the bow
Guess I was drawing the bow too far back aye?
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
dano83
Posts: 790
Date Joined: 25/05/12
Such a great contributing
Such a great contributing member jack! your wisdom is certainly appreciated...
D_d_001
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 09/03/13
Fishwrecked Resident troll
Fishwrecked Resident troll strikes again.
Rob H
Posts: 5817
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
when i was at the marine wksp rio dampier
when i was at rio marine we did a safety exersise with our old crew savers , that had been replaced with new ones (to rios credit ) we all jumped in the water at the tug pens dampier and all the old crew savers worked fine (18 months out of date )
Jamie-Chester
Posts: 116
Date Joined: 28/07/10
My follow up to these
My follow up to these comments is this. It was only recently that the law was changed re expiry dates. Prior to this it was up to you to ensure they were in good nick. Since Epirbs have been made compulsory the need for flares has been reduced - so why increase this bit of legislation. As for compulsory life jackets - for god sakes leave something up to the boat users discretion!! The nanny state just keeps rolling on! And if it is introduced and you don't do the survey - just make sure not to complain !
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
You are so right Jamie
The nanny state is getting way out of control. If the government wants to save some dollars it should have a real close look at some of the departments it is responsible for and just see what is coming out of them that is of benefit to the public and not some writing feast for the shinny bums.
The surfers are getting a $200 buck rebate for buying shark shields what about a rebate for safety devices the government has deemed to be mandatory, EPIRBS,Flares Life jackets just to name a few.
I don't know how good the source of the rumour is but, I have heard that one of the things that is also being looked at is how far you can venture of the coast in what size boat.
D_d_001
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 09/03/13
is the $200 rebate for shark
is the $200 rebate for shark shield a "limited offer" ?
certainly agree that rebate for something voluntary (shark shield) and no rebate for epirbs flares etc doesn't seem right.
prob more of a "appease the masses" type deal for the shark debate.
chris raff
Posts: 3257
Date Joined: 09/02/10
Another ( Vote Grabber )
Another ( Vote Grabber ) policy on the run .. to quote Rob H " NFI what they are doing , they're just winging it " ..
“Intelligence is like a four-wheel drive. It only allows you to get stuck in more remote places.”
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8156
Date Joined: 07/05/12
Pink bats all over again
Pink bats all over again
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
Willlo
Posts: 1490
Date Joined: 07/10/11
Yep could not agree more
Yep could not agree more fellas . One thing tho if all this does come ,good luck to the authorities policing it eh. Jack you better stick to the footy mate .
Call Sign - BZ785
Haynes Hunter Prowler CC
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
just me but
if we are going to be made wear price pfds whilst out on the water, the state goverment better subsidise the price of the inflatable crew savers same as they are subsidising divers shark electric guards
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
another thing sorry to say
if the goverment is realy consirned about water safety , stop all those stupib barstards that think they can walk to penguin island and end up drowd about 6 in the last 8 years , all are new aussies , cant swim, got no idear about tides or how to get out of a rip and then cost tax payers millions when we have a coronors enquiriy
crasny1
Posts: 7006
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Come on Guys
Anything that saves "ONE" life is surely better than nothing. What great expense and Public outcry has the shark debate created.
And if or when you end up in the drink, wearing one because it is mandatory I am sure you are going to thank whoever created this policy.
For some reason we think only about the extra cost, inconvenience of wearing one. Compared to the cost of a boat, or even drowning it is a very small price to pay.
I don't wear one mainly because I am extra safe and a very fair weather fisherman. But if caught in a sudden storm/squall as happened of Dampier once, the first thing we did was but on the jackets, then removed the lightning conducting graphite's from the rocket launcher.
As for flares, I keep ALL of the expired ones, and I will not fire the brand new ones first.
This is a hot topic, so just my opinion. I work trying to save lives, and can tell you if you do that once you feel bloody great!!!
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
D_d_001
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 09/03/13
Not sure where "the point"
Not sure where "the point" (of public safety v's public freedom )should be defined but have to disagree about the "one" life thing of course otherwise the speed limit on our roads would be 8kmph.
Could be right considering many have died recently but personally just hate having my freedoms being eroded one point at a time.
And FWIW I only keep 1 set of old flares (otherwise Id have prob 5 packs) Just be ready to make the decision that if time is of the essence USE AN IN DATE FLARE FIRST. things can happen fast out there and you don't want to be fumbling around with a couple of dud flares if the SHTF.
rodfishsa
Posts: 82
Date Joined: 29/03/13
G'dayNot sure about WA but
G'day
Not sure about WA but here in SA the majority of those that have died at sea in known circumstances have been doing something very risky, putting it politley. Then the cry comes out that everyone should be required to wear life jackets all the time. The actual numbers are very low, maybe average a 2 a year. I bet there's many more suffer head injuries, fatal and otherwise due to car accidents or falls but no helmets required. These knee jerk reactions which try and compensate for those who have little common sense doesn't cut the mustard for me. I have to put up with speed humps everywhere, cuz idiots drive in the same areas. But in our boat, well maintained with all the safety gear and more, we don't need to be treated like idiots, wearing life jackets at times of heightened risk or if someone wants to wear one is our MO. Yes, put them on when things are potentially risky, make sure your crew knows the drills
In the eastern states, laws have been introduced that mandate life jackets in certain situations (crossing bars etc) and from what I've seen I thought the rules were reasonable and logical.
Cheers
Rod
Billcollector
Posts: 2086
Date Joined: 16/05/09
Well summed up Rod. Going out
Well summed up Rod. Going out in the wrong conditions for the size boat being used is the biggest issue and no amount of education will stop the idiot that chooses to do that.
marrisy
Posts: 205
Date Joined: 08/09/11
Do you believe in the Darwin
Do you believe in the Darwin principal Rodfishsa?
uncle
Posts: 9506
Date Joined: 10/02/07
I'm happy to wear mine
Dosen't create any problems.
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
Dale
Posts: 7930
Date Joined: 13/09/05
Yep, ditto
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
After rthe last loss at sea of a couple of fishos
I w2ear mine all the time as I mostly fish alone and it's just good common sense to me.
Rob H
Posts: 5817
Date Joined: 18/01/12
That would be classified as
That would be classified as "heightened risk" and makes sense to me.
But a blanket "wear one all the time" is something Id prefer not to see.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
the thing is
its no drama to wear a self inflating pfd all day but one of those el cheapo foam ones coverd in yellow nylon that you can buy at BCF to wear all day is impratical
Shane O
Posts: 926
Date Joined: 22/01/10
lifejacket
I used to always wear the one that you get when they do the lifejacket swap, it's comfortable and don't even know it's on. This was only when I was on my own and had left the estuary, I would rather have that then fall over the side and think if only I had a lifejacket on. We have to wear them on helicopters and don't thin twice about it.
rigpig
Posts: 508
Date Joined: 21/11/12
Survey completed - 10 minutes
Have a crack at the survey as its only 10 minutes out of your day. Just tick NO in each section if you don't want to change the current legislation. Too easy. At least you get to have a say before the government impliments some muppets crap brain fart..
avatinni
Posts: 141
Date Joined: 06/06/10
I believe everyone should
I believe everyone should make their own decisions on wearing them and live with the decision if something goes terribly wrong imo . I make my 10 year old son wear he's inflatable all the time so I wear mine as I believe I can't make him do something I wouldn't do myself + I do a lot of solo trip .
Rob H
Posts: 5817
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Agree that it should be the
Agree that it should be the skippers decision.
To everyone with an interest in the outcome-dont fall into the trap of "I wont bother, it wont make any difference..."
You just make it easy for the shiny bums to over ride what you want.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
gruntre69
Posts: 533
Date Joined: 15/10/16
Update on expired flated
Fired off 4 on Mullaloo beach on Friday arvo & 2 out of 4 failed. Failures were smoke and from 2012. Seems like the red magnesium hot flares last longer than the smoke type. I have would suggest using in date flares if shit hits the fan & time is of the essence.
Store your old ones on board out of the way & keep your new ones more handy..
Marine trimmer NOR (available for clears, tops, carpet, upholstery, custom equipment covers)
sea-kem
Posts: 15041
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Just as a comedy aside, I
Just as a comedy aside, I decided to let off a very old smoke flair in the backyard once just to see how they went. Of course I didn't realise the wife had washing on the line and the orange smoke was drawn to it like flies to shit. Doghouse for me for a few days.
Seriously though I agree with expiry dates for flares as there were probably boats out there carrying mandatory flares dating back to the 70's, at the end of the day it's about safety mitigation.
Love the West!
dodgy
Posts: 4584
Date Joined: 01/02/10
Similar experience. When I
Similar experience. When I lived in the nt I was on Mindel beach one cracker night. Figured it was a great time to spark up a manganese hand held night flare. Lit up the whole beach like daylight.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
rodfishsa
Posts: 82
Date Joined: 29/03/13
G'dayIn SA it's illegal to
G'day
In SA it's illegal to keep out of date flares. Sounds like it's not in WA
Cheers
Rod
http://dpti.sa.gov.au/ondeck/news?a=126163
rigpig
Posts: 508
Date Joined: 21/11/12
Soccer Hooligans
probably a stack of soocer hooligans out there that would spend a few bucks for some out of date flares..
