Calling for Chirp advice! Or Furuno 295??
Submitted by triggy on Tue, 2014-09-09 20:52
Hello All
I'm in the market for a new sounder/chartplotter setup for a new tub.
I have made my mind up on the Simrad NSS12 evo2 and a B175H-W transducer which I will run through a BSM-3. I'd like to install a transducer capable of dong some work in deeper water also.
Currently I don't fish in more than 120m, however I would not rule out giving 'deep drop' a crack at some point.
My current choice for the second transducer would be a B175L or M, but I am torn and have not found any information that points me towards either?
I'm leaning towards the M model, but looking for some feedback on it's performance in the deep stuff.
Would really appreciate some advice as I'm close to making a decision on which way I will go.
Cheers!
Georgejungle
Posts: 354
Date Joined: 25/03/09
Buy a furuno
Buy a furuno
Nealez
Posts: 1220
Date Joined: 08/05/06
"Like"
"Like"
81macca
Posts: 270
Date Joined: 02/07/09
Furuno.
Furuno.
I actually fish.
triggy
Posts: 128
Date Joined: 14/09/11
Furuno
Hmmm.... A Furuno was where I was at to start with!
What would be the ideal transducer options for the 295?
Will 2x 1kW do it justice?
Septimus
Posts: 146
Date Joined: 14/11/10
FURUNO
Definitely go Furuno mate - I've been there and tried that (Simrad) shit, at considerable cost.
Talk to the blokes at Taylors - I did and have not looked back.
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Furuno all the way
Furuno all the way
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
JohnF
Posts: 2836
Date Joined: 07/07/10
Furuno
Furuno
Boston Whaler 235 Conquest......getting the flogging it was built for.
triggy
Posts: 128
Date Joined: 14/09/11
Ok.
Next qestion is transducer option?
Putting it in a glass boat. Happy to go in-hull or thru-hull
allmarine
Posts: 3
Date Joined: 29/11/09
Hi, Best transducers for a
Hi, Best transducers for a Furuno 295 would be 2kw and
200B-8B for shallow range and either 50BL-12HR or 38B-9HR for deeper water. Go with the 38khz if you are doing the deep drop. Do not mount the transducers in a wet box, they work best when wet faced in a fairing block. You will not get optimum performance using a wet box with these transducers they are very sensitive. We have installed a lot of the Furuno 295's using our fairing block and the setup works very well. Thanks All Marine Services.
RobertMc
Posts: 326
Date Joined: 19/01/09
i dont know too much about
i dont know too much about transducers, but type in furuno 295 transducers in the search and there is heaps of posts about the same thing, failing that go in and speak to luke at chivers marine in bibra lake, very knowledgable bloke really knows his stuff.
Sulo
Posts: 256
Date Joined: 13/08/11
Why are you buying the BSM
Why are you buying the BSM 3. My understanding is that Chirp is now built into the NSS evo2 units which does away with the need to buy the BSM2 or the BSM3
Second question is why do you want to insatall 2 transducers, when you can install one to do what you require... Like you said, you might want to look at deep dropping later, pretty sure all of the B175 trannies will be able to see far further than you will want to drop. (3000m?)
In fact work out to 120m will easily be done on a 600w transducer if you wanted to.
http://www.airmartechnology.com/uploads/brochures/B175.pdf
triggy
Posts: 128
Date Joined: 14/09/11
Thanks for all the advice Gents!
Sulo, I think your comments are very valid, although no one can confirm if I need the second transducer or not for fishing between 100-400m? It's really open to opinion as to what will work best with little hard evidence, or at least from what I have found. The cost of a bsm-3 is nearly half the cost of a smaller screened Simrad. Could run two sounders/chartplotters with the option to add another transducer later if required at almost the same price....just use the second transducer on the spare sounder with no need for a BSM-3.
crasny1
Posts: 6986
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Sulo is sounding clever
Edit: Having all that sounder/chartplotter Porn onboard some boats I have seen reminds me of a man with a sportscar suffering "SDS" - Small Dick Syndrome!!!!
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
Sulo
Posts: 256
Date Joined: 13/08/11
I would guess that there
I would guess that there would be no need for a second transducer for the 100 - 400 m range. However when I get a moment I will see what I can dig up. My reasoning is that most people are doing it now with a 1kw transducer which will be essentially what you will have, as it also has CHIRP capabilities you will get better depth capabilities as well as all the other things that comes with Chirp. Target separation, less clutter etc.
paula8519
Posts: 101
Date Joined: 09/03/10
simrad
Do not touch the bsm 2 unit they still have not sorted out the bugs they had from day 1, if you must go simrad go bsm3, but seriously buy furuno it works from day 1 and it will be supported in the future, they are built to last, commercial fisher men use furuno, any thing made by simrad or lowrance will not be supported 5 years down the track, being assemled in mexico the failure rate of units are high they are not robust units.
paul a
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
Na get the Dragonfly 9 best
Na get the Dragonfly 9 best chirp ever. No i am just joking.
I have played with some seriously tricked out Simrad gear and i was not impressed. Honestly if you have the coin go the 295, i cant help you with the trannies!
Vinnie
Sulo
Posts: 256
Date Joined: 13/08/11
While the pro's in Australia
While the pro's in Australia use many brands of sounders and Furuno being a very popular one Simrad also make commercial gear and have done for a very long time, their commercial gear as well as plenty of research and monitoring equipment and is very popular in Europe and with a tiny bit of quick research it seems that the Simrad parent company also manufactures Oil and gas technologies, http://www.kongsberg.com/en/kogt/
Defense systems http://www.kongsberg.com/en/kds/ and remote weapons stations http://www.kongsberg.com/en/kps/
Pretty impressive company in all I would think started back in 1946...
Paula thanks for your reply as without it I would not have found out all of this information, I did know that they were big in echo research and commercial fishing gear but not the other gear.
Now to be fair I will have a look and see what Furuno do...
edit. Well Furuno got going in the sounder market at about the same time as Simrad 1948, they list plenty of firsts to their name such as Radar in 1959 however radar was first installed on US ships in 1941. They list a few other firsts however I should do some work instead of seeing how true their statements are.
They seem to grow and expand their range by taking over companies with expertise inthe field they obviously want to develop. They also manufature some medical equipment equipment which also uses their technology of echo sounding.
Interesting time line of products here http://www.furuno.co.jp/en/corporate/about/history.html
The company did start in 1938 however it does not say what sort of electronics it made over the ten years before they made a sounder. Given the date they were probably mainly involved in a world event that was happening at that time.
Sorry! way off topic and relatively boring but interesting all the same.
Seafari
Posts: 116
Date Joined: 17/03/12
Sulo, you're facts are wrong
Sulo, you're facts are wrong and that's because you like most folks are confused between Simrad Kongsberg and the Simrad Yachting. Simrad Yachting (leisure boat section) was sold of to Navico, the same guys who bought Navman and Lowrance (and B&G for the yachties). Therefore Simrad products like CHIRP, 4G radar and all current plotters sounders etc that you see in the market today are not made by Kongsberg, but rather 100% Navico which is the same development team that designed and manufactured Navman and Lowrance.
Kongsberg still manufacture high-end sonars and research sounders but none of that technology flows down to current Simrad products. I was once told at a voat show that the way to tell the diffs is that Simrad Kongaberg has red background and white Simrad lettering and Simrad Navico is grey background on white Simrad letters.
I believe Furuno started with making radio's before they developed the first commercial sounder for Japanese fishing vessels.
Shark1
Posts: 1084
Date Joined: 21/05/12
I gotta 295 with 260 ducer.
I gotta 295 with 260 ducer. Was gonna be a 585 but had wrong ducer sent from the states so got the 295. Happy as Larry once u learn how to use it it's a better sounder than most operators can make use off. Unsold on the simrad hear mixed reviews couple of ppl swear by them - I would love to see em run next to each other with similar ducers.
paula8519
Posts: 101
Date Joined: 09/03/10
simrad
Sulo i endosre your comments and agree that the commercial products made for the pro industry by the Simrad of yester year are legendary, however the recreational products and the Simrad of today after it was taken over by navico are an entiely different beast. No longer assembled in europe the simrad of today comes out of the navico mexican assembly plant . The failure rates of recent times have been well publicised by a legion of disatisfied customers including yours truely, widely commented on in forums such as the hull truth. The nse and bsm 2 products have experienced a torturous pathway of software updates with many customers still complaining in 2014 that they are not satisfied with the performance of these over hyped products. You can buy parts for furuno gear that is 25 years old, you wont get that support from gear that is designed to be obsoelte in 5 years in the event that it still actually may work.
paul a
Sulo
Posts: 256
Date Joined: 13/08/11
Fair enough I personally do
Fair enough I personally do not run Simrad but am looking at it as a future upgrade. I currently run Lowrance and as much as I have abused this gear over 20 years I am yet to have a failure of any sort. Any issues or questions I have had have been dealt with by calling the product support, who seem to be on the ball and deal with questions there and then. I may have just been very lucky, over this time and have had a number of units over this time as well. The Simrad units I have played with on boats so far seemed to me to be pretty impressive, and the new Evo 2 got rid of most of the potential issues I had with the Evo 1 models. I will go and do a bit of research on The Hull Truth and see what those guys have to say.
As a bit of a side the power cables and transducers I fitted to my boat about 15 years ago with my LCX16Ci plug straight into my HDS gen 2 touch units and work perfectly. I believe they will also plug straight into the Simrad gear as well.
JohnF
Posts: 2836
Date Joined: 07/07/10
If you want stuff with all
If you want stuff with all the latest Gizmos, get Simrad.
If your Hollywood and want to look good, get Raymarine.
If you want to catch fish, get Furuno.
Boston Whaler 235 Conquest......getting the flogging it was built for.
Septimus
Posts: 146
Date Joined: 14/11/10
EXACTLY
I agree completely JohnF!!
jng
Posts: 488
Date Joined: 03/08/07
Lol
Lol
triggy
Posts: 128
Date Joined: 14/09/11
Seems to me that this is one
Seems to me that this is one of those Ford vs Holden scenarios. Opinions will always be divided and for very good reason.
The Furuno 585 has been my sounder of choice until now and has served me well. CHIRP does have its advantages and disadvantages, but are there enough advantages to justify the $$
The Hull Truth does have a mountain of information on both CHIRP and non-CHIRP! If I could afford it I would go Furuno's CHIRP in a heartbeat, but I don't.
I am leaning towards the new technology, still don't know if Simrad is the best option for this technology. Someone, somewhere is always going to have a bad experience with their purchase. This will often be followed by a nasty review in the online world, should I discredit everything with a bad review? Probably wouldn't be a good idea, as I would never buy anything!
Thanks for the advice so far
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
I don't understand paying
I don't understand paying the big $$$$ two catch two demersal per fisher. if you are a pro then yes its worth the $$$. A Furuno 587 and a 260 tranny are a good sounder Up to 400m . Lawrance are good too. for the rec fisher .If you can't find fish using one you won't catch any more spending more money.
Active Gyp-Rok solutions ,Residential and commercial ceilings and walls
Tim
Posts: 2497
Date Joined: 26/09/06
SeaRider3
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 21/01/14
Totally agree with what your
Totally agree with what your saying Paul. I have the 587 with the 260 and wouldn't expect amateurs to need anything more.
But if you look at it the other way, it could be the same reasoning why people buy bigger boats than what is needed to get the two dimersals. A 6m boat is generally good to do whatever you want, but if you have money a 7m boat might make the job a bit easier and more comfortable.
Each to their own I guess.
...
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Paul for President!!
Paul for President!!
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
paula8519
Posts: 101
Date Joined: 09/03/10
Paul G
Paul wise words indeed, if the looney greens get their way we will not be able to catch any fish at all.
paul a
Septimus
Posts: 146
Date Joined: 14/11/10
SIMRAD SHIT!!!
Triggy - I spent over $20,000 fitting out a new boat with the latest and greatest Simrad gear at the time (NSS12, NSE12, Chirp, Structure Scan, etc, etc).
I won’t go into the details, but, will say Navico fucked me around for 18 months with promises of software upgrades and multiple swap outs (they replaced every major component at least once). Eventually, I had to get a lawyer involved to force them to take all their CRAP back for a full refund, which I promptly used to buy FURUNO - WHICH IS WHAT I SHOULD'VE BOUGHT IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE...LOL!!!
In my direct experience, there is NO COMPARISON between Furuno and Simrad.
It's your money and if you want to piss it up a wall, then that is your call, but, remember you have been warned here.
As Paula8519 has said, jump on Hull Truth and have a look - talk to some local boat builders who were pushing Simrad BUT are no longer (PM me for details).
Of course there will be some Simrad users who won’t have had any problems, but, they are the lucky ones (or Navico’s Simrad techs pretending to be happy users on The Hull Truth, etc…lol).
Ignorance is bliss mate - if before you bought; you could take both out, side by side, for a day’s fishing on the same boat, over the same ground, with the same conditions, I think your decision would be obvious. I have - and it was to me – but only AFTER I’d spent good money on the Simrad stuff.
One of the reasons that Navico relented and gave me a full refund (after the involvement of my hard-assed South African lawyer…lol) is that when they sent their SE Asian Technical Manager and his associate out to troubleshoot my gear (they spent two days going over the install on my boat), I was able to take them out for a sea trial, with their crap working right next to a Furuno unit. As soon as they saw the difference with their own eyes, HE admitted there and then that Furuno were the “benchmark” that they were trying (unsuccessfully) to match in the recreational market!!!
That was a real eureka moment for me, and as soon as we got back to shore, I phoned my lawyer.
My only reason for posting up my Simrad experience, is not wanting to see another fisho possibly get stuffed around like I was. I really couldn’t give a fuck what you buy Triggy – in fact the more people that buy Simrad, the more fish there’ll be out there for all us Furuno users to catch…LOL!!
Good luck with whatever you buy mate.
triggy
Posts: 128
Date Joined: 14/09/11
Thanks Septimus. You are
Thanks Septimus.
You are obviously very passionate about your opinion of Simrad and understandably so. No one would ever expect that you would get to the point in which you need to get a refund on your $20,000 investment. That's incredible!
You clearly having been there and done it would you recommend the Simrad as a chartplotter only? I think if were to go down the path of tried and proven I would buy Lowrance for this purpose.
Sounds like you have had success with your Furuno, do mind if I ask what you actually chose after your Simrad experience? 587/295? Transducers?
JohnF
Posts: 2836
Date Joined: 07/07/10
over and out.......
over and out.......
Boston Whaler 235 Conquest......getting the flogging it was built for.
terboz123
Posts: 1358
Date Joined: 13/04/11
Well this is a very good read
Well this is a very good read of a thread for my reference for the future...
a hard days fishing still beats work
PGFC member
GCGFC memberSeptimus
Posts: 146
Date Joined: 14/11/10
SIMRAD SHIT!!!
Triggy - please note my last post on this topic, where I said that "they replaced every major component at least once".
Based on my experience, I can't in good conscience recommend anything from Navico.
My plotter/fish finder of choice is the Furuno TZ14.
I know it's been said many times on this site before, but, go down and talk to Rhyss at Taylor Marine, have a play with the gear yourself AND then make your own mind up.
Depending on your budget, you could have a punt on Lowrance, but, the common denominator is NAVICO - they are quickly developing a reputation for slick marketing and unreliable products. Again, I urge you to jump on The Hull Truth etc and have a read about the Simrad/Navico user experience first hand before you spend your hard earned money on anything coming from NAVICO!!
triggy
Posts: 128
Date Joined: 14/09/11
I have been meaning to
I have been meaning to update this for a while.
Some discussion on the site about Simrad reminded me to do so.
The new boat ended up with a Furuno 14" TZ touch, DFF1 sounder module paired up with SS264's.
Thanks to Septimus' advice it would be fair to say I saw the light! Boat is due to leave the states in the next few weeks.
Cheers Septimus, your passionate responses put me on the right track!
Septimus
Posts: 146
Date Joined: 14/11/10
ENJOY!!
Really glad I could help with your decision Triggy - you'll love your set up mate, and best of all, you can expect years of trouble free use.
Nice choice of boat as well, good luck with her.
triggy
Posts: 128
Date Joined: 14/09/11
Thanks mate
Thanks mate
Seafari
Posts: 116
Date Joined: 17/03/12
triggy
now tell us what boat you boat (or link me to the thread) thanks
triggy
Posts: 128
Date Joined: 14/09/11
Key West 239, 300 Yamaha
Key West 239, 300 Yamaha etc, etc.
Transducers installed just forward of the step, under the console. No thread, it's sitting at the factory in South Carolina.