Insurance.......here we go yet again

Helping a Fishwrecked member with their claim against Club ......who are trying to argue that, as the boat was purchased very cheaply ( indeed it was...... as a result of a divorce and the need for the owner to quickly cash out ) then that is supposedly the "market value" and hence all they have to settle for.   I have seen an independent valuation which bears no resemblance to what is being offered.   When will they learn ? 


Posts: 1597

Date Joined: 16/05/09

 Never

Thu, 2021-03-04 19:17

 Never

Alan James's picture

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Date Joined: 30/06/09

Windfall

Thu, 2021-03-04 19:49

Is there a windfall clause or similar reference within the policy that Club Marine are relying upon Sunshine? 

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sunshine's picture

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Date Joined: 03/03/09

Good question and NO there isnt

Thu, 2021-03-04 19:53

Indeed if that were the case and you won a boat, were bequeathed one, bought one in a fire sale (no pun intended ) then on their approach you wouldn't be able to insure it at all ......bloody ridiculous, they never disputed the value proposed for insurance and from what I have seen it is actually a little low based on current values.   Talk about kicking a man when he is down ! 

sea-kem's picture

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Date Joined: 30/11/09

 That was going to be my

Thu, 2021-03-04 20:37

 That was going to be my reply Gordon, they're happy to take a premium based on a value whether market or agreed. Then make their own rules on a payout 

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Love the West!

scotto's picture

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Date Joined: 21/04/08

Yeah they’re assholes

Fri, 2021-03-05 06:16

Club marine tried that on me on a previous boat, when I went to insure it more than the purchase price. I got around it saying I had had an extra $10k of work done to the boat, by way of electronics, etc. 

 

lesson learnt, always tell them the boat cost what you want to insure it for!

Swompa's picture

Posts: 2968

Date Joined: 14/10/12

Similar but different....I

Fri, 2021-03-05 06:45

Similar but different....

I had my income protection insurance with a perticular company when I was regularly between jobs. I was insured for (for example) $10k a month though they said that if i made a claim, i would need to provide my past three months of pay slips and they would only pay me 80% of that figure....

They were more than happy to debit my money.

 

What I had done is rounded up my pay in the policy to the nearest $1000 under the assumption that my wage would continue to rise though the figure i was insured was never the figure i was going to be paid should I have claimed. 

 

So many of them are bastards, and then you get an absoloute star like Sunshine. 

 

 

sunshine's picture

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Date Joined: 03/03/09

Yup, income protection is yet another minefield

Fri, 2021-03-05 09:11

Helped out a mate who they tried to screw by paying him nett of business expenses whilst failing to recognise that those expenses include both fixed and variable.   

Swompa's picture

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Date Joined: 14/10/12

 You're a good human,

Fri, 2021-03-05 09:15

 You're a good human, Sunshine!

 

little johnny's picture

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Date Joined: 04/12/11

Did you hear

Fri, 2021-03-05 09:47

The one where lady thinks removal guys stole war medals and rings Gordon? On news last night. Insurance not covering because she let them in house. They are thieves

sunshine's picture

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Date Joined: 03/03/09

Well if it RAC

Fri, 2021-03-05 16:54

They specifically exclude ANY cover on medals 

sunshine's picture

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Date Joined: 03/03/09

Well if it RAC

Fri, 2021-03-05 16:53

They specifically exclude ANY cover on medals ...and yes many policies expressly exclude theft cover occasioned by “invitees”

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Date Joined: 08/05/09

Insurance claim

Fri, 2021-03-05 13:18

 I had an assesor try and reject my claim for a prop and gearbox afler hitting a partoally submerged log because whwn he came to asses the damage my boat trailer didnt have a hitch lock even though it was in a locked garage. WTF has a lock on a trailer have to do with the claim, a call to the  ombudeman got it sorted and i changed my insurance company

 

Camzak

crano's picture

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Date Joined: 04/11/09

Name

Tue, 2021-03-09 13:34

 Name and shame them.

Posts: 336

Date Joined: 06/02/14

Sunshine

Mon, 2021-03-08 16:29

 Sunshine, have you heard of co-insurance?

 

My club put up a shed with volunteer labor, donated materials etc all cost was 20K.

 

Insured for 20K.

 

Fell down in freak storm, insurance said replacement cost with tradesman lobor was 100K.

 

So they will only pay out 5K, as they said the club essentially under insured and thus taking on a co-insured risk !

 

5K being 1/5 of the total replacement cost !

sunshine's picture

Posts: 2206

Date Joined: 03/03/09

Yes I have however need to know insurer and type of policy

Mon, 2021-03-08 16:42

As much depends on the actual wording.   either pm me with details on provide below and I will be pleased to have a close look for you.

slugger's picture

Posts: 128

Date Joined: 17/02/11

Market Value

Mon, 2021-03-08 20:32

If your policy says you are insured for Market Value , check it to see if there is a definition of Market Value

The courts have have all sorts of precedents of that , basically meaning a price paid between a willing buyer and a willing seller , neither not so anxious to buy or sell .

I would ask the insurance company if you had paid twice the value , say for sentimental reasons , would they pay out that figure or still rely on the lower market value.

They can't have it both ways , but really comes down to policy wording 

From what you've said , I would be taking them on 

 

Posts: 25

Date Joined: 05/01/13

Our experience

Tue, 2021-03-09 21:41

We had a horrible etec which we claimed some water damage on. The motor was a write off and “OIGS” sold our claim to a third party who offered us $2500 for the 9 year old motor. We declined, they then offered $4k, we declined, then $4400 and we could keep the old motor, we declined again and asked to speak with someone from the actual insurer. They decided to forget about us so after a month or so I contacted OIGS again and waited.. and waited.. about another month or 2 later someone rang me from the insurer and apologised for the way we had been treated and wished to resolve swiftly. Offering $6000. We declined. I found some similar aged/condition outboards to compare against and they then offered $9500, we declined arguing we then had to pay our mechanic to swap the motors. We finally settled at $10700 after providing a quote for the swap from the mechanic, Which as you can imagine we were well happy with for a 9yo etec!!! however it took about 8-9months to get there. Just goes to show everything is up for negotiation!

Posts: 158

Date Joined: 08/03/09

So it seems that some boat insurance companies

Wed, 2021-03-10 12:03

are great at taking the premiums but not really good at all when it comes to a claim.  Overall, which insurance companies have reasonable premiums with a good response to claims?  I pay my premiums to Club every year and do not expect to have an issue when it comes to a claim.  I would rather change insurance companies now, before I may need to claim, than after and get worked over and pissed off.  Can you please give us your opinion Sunshine, and anyone else who has had no issues with claims

 

straith's picture

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Date Joined: 25/11/13

Club marine? Pffft

Wed, 2021-03-10 12:53

 I used to swear by them, nothing was too much trouble.

Now everything is too much trouble.

Hey its an insurance company, doesnt matter what letters make up their name they are all the same.

Work on dont expect anything and you wont be disappointed.

Vote with your feet and make lots of public reviews... its all us little guys can do in this day and age sadly.

 

Belly Fish's picture

Posts: 440

Date Joined: 09/03/12

Club Marine versus RAC

Wed, 2021-03-10 13:41

I have a few (non boating) policies with RAC.  I have found them easy to deal with and competitive.  No claims yet, so no experience with how hard this may be.

I thought, why not try them for my boat.

They have this ridiculous clause that says your boat must either have a hitch lock or GPS tracker.  My boat lives in my garage under the main roof of my house, with panel lift door.  Its secure.  If its not there, its on my car, where a lot of hitch locks just wont work.  They wouldn't accept that, so I didn't go with them.

Anyone else have a policy with RAC.  I'd be careful....this wording seems designed to prevent you claiming.

straith's picture

Posts: 295

Date Joined: 25/11/13

I insured my boat with RAC this time

Wed, 2021-03-10 23:20

 Even though theyre way more expensive than club maripoff just to shove it to them after being treated like a piece of crap.

However,

Ive just had to fight and threaten action with RAC Just to get a simple house contents claim paid to full value, i wont bore you with details but just another really crappy arrogant condescending response so guess what? Off to westpac for all my policies... as i said previously our only option as normal punter is to keep moving when they try it on.

Hopefully the statistics at the end of the year get some of these little hitlers sacked.

I suppose we shouldnt be surprised to see clowns at the circus but i was brought up to be fair and give everyone benefit of the doubt and continually get caught out even now in my 50's.

 

Posts: 4289

Date Joined: 01/02/10

 I have my dinghy in the

Thu, 2021-03-11 05:56

 I have my dinghy in the garage and they stipulate the same thing. I've asked for clarification as cyl one season I take the other boat to my workshop and was a bit worried how that would play out. Ask ally as long as I took reasonable steps to prevent damage I was all good. 
Funnily enough my caravan insurance with rac has no hitch lock stipulation. 

I made a claim on a new set of clears a few years ago on my last boat. They counter offered and I was happy with the offer and accepted. Instainly paid. 

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Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?

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Date Joined: 14/05/13

Thanks to Sunshine

Wed, 2021-03-10 13:47

Hey Sunshine - i think on behalf of all on this site i wish to thank you for your help with everyones queries and claims.

I have seen a fair few posts where you have aided one way or another.

Is there an insurance company you would personally recommend? As like many others i don't want to be caught out when it is too late.

Thanks again 

Moose

 

 

sunshine's picture

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Date Joined: 03/03/09

Moose .....Good question and not one easy to answer

Wed, 2021-03-10 16:22

 I was technical claims manger for SGIO in its various guises (SGIO/CGU/ NRMA/ IAG) for seventeen years and could, at that time, can say that my staff were trained to find ways to pay claims and we had a motto, if it was grey then we pay.  

Had a similar role with QBE whom I retired from a few years back.  If I insured with them i am immediately entitled to a 50% discount on any insurances for life BUT I choose to insure with Trident, no they arent the cheapest but i trust them implicitly.

Whilst I have had disputes with RAC, Club and SGIO on behalf of members of this site all have, to date, been amicably resolved EVENTUALLY ...........it shouldnt be like that but reflects the total lack of training of claims staff (they have got rid or retired those capable of providing sound training) or the abandonment of actual claims handling to assessing firms who believe to keep the insurers business they HAVE to screw claims down.  

What people need to realise is that if they feel they have been unfairly dealt with by their insurer they have the right to have the matter independently heard at NO cost by the Financial Ombudsman Service .........what the public dont know is that, whilst it is a free service to you it actually costs the insurance company a minimum of $4,250 (and probably more now as I havent keep up )  remember insurance companies.  

a/  dont like an adverse finding as it hurts their reputation

b/ given this little known fact adding a few grand to a disputed settlement actually saves them money

 

I am not advocating for disputes for the sake of it but if you truly believe you have been short changed then there is free and easy recourse available.

And today i find myself assisting a sea rescue group who have similarly been short changed on a settlement ..............ffs that just astounds me, how much money have they saved insurers over decades  

 

Posts: 98

Date Joined: 14/05/13

Excellent

Wed, 2021-03-10 19:10

Thanks so much Sunshine - hopefully i never have to make a substantial claim but good to know your rights when push comes to shove.

Cheers

Moose

davewillo's picture

Posts: 704

Date Joined: 08/09/16

 I insured my boat with

Thu, 2021-03-11 14:13

 I insured my boat with Trident based on advice from Sunshine. Haven't had a claim and hopefully I wont but he certainly clarified the whole process for me.

hilko's picture

Posts: 42

Date Joined: 27/03/18

RAC won't insure boats with value more than $100k.

Thu, 2021-03-11 11:17

 Just asked RAC for a quote for my boat.

sea-kem's picture

Posts: 13175

Date Joined: 30/11/09

 Be careful how you separate

Thu, 2021-03-11 12:12

 Be careful how you separate boat and trailer value too, mate of mine had the trailer for his Grady White stolen from the Leeuwin ramp during the Rotto swim. Had it down as only $7k and it's costing him 14k for a new one. Fucking scumbags prowling the ramps all the time I reckon. Be careful.

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Love the West!

sunshine's picture

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Date Joined: 03/03/09

Another WIN for the good guys

Thu, 2021-03-11 20:32

 

Discharge received today for the full sum insured of $170,000 less the excess .....now we just have to resolve his ongoing dispute on the shed contents with a different insurer who is also messing around 

Rick's picture

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Date Joined: 22/12/06

Legend

Thu, 2021-03-11 20:59

Awesome work Sunshine.
you have done so much to help so many on here 

'Thank you !

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PGFC Member

 

sunshine's picture

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Date Joined: 03/03/09

And another win

Fri, 2021-03-26 13:26

Just got a call from the sea rescue group I was assisting with their claim which had, in my view,  been massively under-paid ..

The insurers have reconsidered their position and now agreed to pay almost the WHOLE claim (actually a little more than I had sought on their behalf) another great result 

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Date Joined: 05/09/17

 Sunshine, you are a legend!

Fri, 2021-03-26 14:14

 Sunshine, you are a legend!

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 RossP

uncle's picture

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Date Joined: 10/02/07

Great efforts on your

Fri, 2021-03-26 14:50

part sunshine 

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all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs

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Date Joined: 05/05/06

 What a champ! hopefully an

Fri, 2021-03-26 18:38

 What a champ! hopefully an endless supply of booze and fish comes your way Sunshine

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Big Rigs Downunder

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCl8TLtmKrm1P8p7S53MEgXw/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=0

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 Excellent work sunshine once

Fri, 2021-03-26 20:15

 Excellent work sunshine once again. You're too good! If you're ever down Rocko way and need bait send me pm

Moking's picture

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Date Joined: 30/05/12

 Likewise Sunshine- and when

Sat, 2021-03-27 08:48

 Likewise Sunshine- and when you are heading down this way(Rocko) send a PM and I'll glady give you a feed of fresh squid.

It's bloody great what you do on here for fellow fisho's and others.

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 My Dad taught me how to Fish-Thanks Dad.(RIP)

sunshine's picture

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Thanks for the kind offers......much appreciated

Sat, 2021-03-27 15:29

It is truly a pleasure being able to help fellow members with these issues.....the pen can be pretty mighty in the right hands.
I have had help with spots and techniques that have made me a far better fisherman thanks to members on here so it certainly isn't a one way street.......this is a great community to be a part of !